I might rather swing for the fences with the rifle to honest. Would you prefer to eat the steel pipes or the stock? I have only shot a .50 single barrel hawken rifle and that was heavier than sin, wonder what the specs are for this
@@commander31able60 Captain Price right? That quote has saved my life countless times while playing shooters lol, everything from good old CoD4 to Arma3 and CS:GO
Some years back, I worked at a C&R shop in Gettysburg. We had one of these, but I didn't know how it worked until now. Very interesting! I wished I had played with it more now :)
We go through a whole lot of trouble to kill each other. After having to reload these damn things 3 or 4 times I'd strongly consider discussing my differences with whomever I'm shooting at. Including the deer if applicable.
- So what's with that slavery thing you have going on? Aren't you going to get rid of it? - Why would we? It's quite convenient. The deer is nice, by the way.
@@TheThingAndTheOtherThing they definitely had black powder revolving rifles. The channel "cap and ball" has a great video on the 1855 colt root revolver rifle. I would love one personally.
@@TheThingAndTheOtherThing Because the back blast of gas pressure scales up with it? When firing a conventional revolving pistol both hands/arms are behind the cylinder/chamber, this is not the case with a rifle and getting blasted with gas pressure and lead spray from the action is a concern. Revolver-Rifles were a thing though, just not a hugely popular one.
@@ricochet5241 yea quicker without a doubt. But like Karl said while fumbling with tiny caps "imagine trying to do this in combat" you drop one and you could be wearing somebody's bayonet. The whole idea is you're saving it for an emergency right
Sadly, it takes three shots to spin the spinner. Also, I am of the controversial opinion that swivel breech guns are obsolete in a military capacity these days.
@@Rumblestrip no, it a mini-gun is actually just a swivel breech gun at its highest evolutionary state. What differentiates it from a revolver is the fact that it has a barrel for each chamber, rather than a single barrel that each chamber must align with. This reduces barrel wear and enhances cooling by both reducing the effective firing rate of each barrel and forcing airflow around each barrel as it rotates around the center axis of the cluster.
Maybe with a conical.... Like a lee r.e.a.l. bullet 45s weigh 200 grains... Getting into 45 colt territory for power... Maybe a little stiffer with the right load.
Just a small point. The short starter you used wasn't really used until after the civil war and only for formal shooting matches. It wasn't until the 1930s that people assumed that they had always been around. I just use the big of my patch knife to pound the ball level, then use the ramrod.
If you look into civil war carbines of the south. Look up the Tallassee carbine. Was a mixture of Springfield and Enfield parts. One of the rarest guns with its armory not being burned down after/during the Civil War.
Thanks, Karl. The swivel breech muzzleloader you demonstrated represents a step in firearms development that I was previously unaware of. Your historical vignettes are enlightening and entertaining.
For everyone that says in a stressful situation you will not be able to use the slide lock on a pistol to drop the slide due to stress... your great great grand dad had to put a tiny loose cap on a tiny nipple in battle. I think you will be ok.
Oddly they were probably using larger winged caps in the service, but your point is well made sir. Swapping cones on something like this is extremely easy... The musket caps would have been readily available to... Literally on corpses in cap pouches. Lol
I have seen some references that say these were commonly combination guns, either both smooth bore or with one rifled barrel. They'd have the first barrel loaded with a round ball for shooting big game, and the second barrel was loaded with shot for small game & birds. This allowed the shooter to take any type of game they happened to come across, while being cheaper than a true double barrel since it only has one lock.
It’s cool that you give us content that reinforces and pertains to your current project but can be watched in a vacuum as just a cool overview of an interesting historical action and firearm. This is why I come to this channel.
I've seen enough muzzleloader shooters break their ramrod when they were under time pressure to see a spare one as not a bad thing. It's just a stick, usually hickory.
@@voneror This would have been a civilian hunting rifle, not a military arm, so it would be more likely to have extra options available, like the extra rod. Also, it looks more symetrical, and therefore more atractive. Probable not much more work or materials to add it, but they could sell it as a premium model. Military arm- simple, cheap, reliable. Civillian - well, it looks better, so it will sell better.
The scenery, birdlife etc where you guys are just seems so spectacular. One day, when I see the USA, I will avoid all the big cities and see the wide open spaces of your beautiful country.
A little doofy for combat, but I could definitely see this being a great hunting rifle at the time, having a follow-up shot immediately available after the first. Also, as another commenter suggested, a live comparison of a standard musket and this swivel breech rifle being reloaded and fired as much as possible within 2-5 minutes would be very interesting. Might be a fun competitive video for you and Ian to do if you guys get the opportunity at some point. I can already see all the fumbled caps.
The one question turning in my head while watching: If you already have a swivel breach, why not make it a breach loader??? You would loose the ability to fire two shots after another but loading would be soo much faster.
Karl, you mentioned the earlier rifles, those swivel breech flintlock rifles were found, but not common among the Revolutionary War volunteers of the Southern theater. Upon reading of the exploits of some of my ancestors with the various units such as Morgan's Riflemen and the "Over-mountain Men" (who marched hundreds of miles through the 'wilderness of the Blue Ridge Mountains) and defeated Ferguson at the Battle of Kings Mountain (the Ferguson Rifle is a fascinating rifle in its own right, and has been the subject of one of Ian's Forgotten Weapons presentations), along with other lesser-known battles of the region, reading the reports and letters seem to suggest that generally swivel-breech rifles, at least the flintlocks were often owned two types of people; as they were reportedly more expensive than two separate rifles, due to the greater precision in the 'smithing', owners were either quite well off, or marksman whose abilities would allow them the use the 'rapid' second shots. Remember, flintlocks would have been far more at risk for having flash-overs with the two pans in close proximity. I am thinking that it much the same in the 1860s. It's interesting that the western regions, the in mountains of the south, from Virginia to Georgia were considered strongholds for the Republicans prior to the Civil War if nothing else but the resentment by the westerners that the Democrats in the state capitals had long ignored the people of the mountains. Thank you Karl for the demonstration.
We did a weekend of different events, climbing, first aid, low and high ropes, competitions and a black powder demonstration for the Explorer scouts. Usually 70-100 kids plus other adults. I got to be the loader, the entire day. The bruise on my hand from starting balls for six hours was huge. By the end the two rifles were so fouled. Good times.
Great video! From a fellow that shoots the old style boom sticks, you can get reloads down to 20 seconds from a powder horn, measure, patch, ball, short starter, ramrod. Don't waste time putting the ramrod back, just hold it with support hand and have a capper, or leather capper.
I remember asking some old timers why I couldn't make Minie balls for my Hawken, they said the twist rate was too high and they would destabilize. I imagine the same is true for this gun.
Rifle twist enters into it a little bit, but honestly, I've put some of those "old timers" knowledge to the test and sent a Hornady great plains hollow point 700 yards out of a 50 caliber flintlock to an aluminum sheet and hit just fine with a 1:48 twist 35 barrel. There's a video of my first hit on my YT to prove it. Got all the load info in the description. I suspect minie balls didn't really exist much for these guys kind of like now. We got some modern. Ideas about and the closest conical they had was slightly oversized for this gun for 44 revolvers... Average size for the concials there was 0.450-0.452. you might be able to force that down the barrel, but not very often and not consistently.
So the standard issue weapon with updated ammunition was better than the more advanced weapon that was available at the time. Almost like I've heard this point made here before. Anyways, this historical stuff is why I subscribe, look forward to more.
Use 1 barrel, keep the other in reserve. In case of severe fouling or emergency then use the 2nd one. Whoever creating this/bought this is smart person. I like it.
@@InrangeTv Well, its not with a period modern musket loaded with Minie ball, but what about older designs similar to rifle in question. Would sequence of load-fire-load-fire be faster then loading two barrels at once and then firing from both of them?
@@InrangeTv It depends on when it's being used and how, no? A problem of it in a military sense is that it has no bayonet, but if it did then firing two volleys rapidly into an enemy host and then bayonet charging them would likely fuck their moral. A fix could be plug bayonets, though. Another possible advantage would be in taking a position it would aid you in the initial defense of ground that had just been taken by providing with a shot immediately, using only a single barrel until the second shot was necessary. Such as; you have taken the position, but the enemy counter-attacks before you can reload with a fresh unit that wasn't on the position at the time. You would be able to open up upon them immediately and hopefully halt, or delay at least, the counter-attack. Granted, it wouldn't be efficient enough for the cost of manufacture and training and maintenance, but it would still have at least a bit of an advantage over a standard single-shot long-arm of the time.
@@InrangeTv How about with larger strings of fire?... Say 40 shots or so. Having 2 barrels would half the amount of fouling it seems, and wouldn't that have a significant effect... Or have I got something wrong in this? Honest question, my BP experience is limited to faffing about for funsies every so often with what a buddy of mine brings out.
Karl. This and forgotten weapons are the only channel I reliably watch. Maybe put C&Rsenal on that list, but not nearly as much. I really wish I had the spare money to help support both channels. I hope to once this virus shit blows over. Keep doing the good work!
Before the battle of Shiloh, Albert Sidney Johnston said to Southerners (and I paraphrase) "Come! Bring your rifles, bring your shotguns. If you don't have a rifle or shotgun, bring a pike. Just Come!" A non-optimal firearm is far, far better than a literal sharp stick than is the best firearm compared to that non-optimal firearm.
Hi Karl, I'm a Patreon supporter and totally appreciate your channels content. Thanks for doing a video on a black powder muzzle loader. I'm an avid black powder shooter from the land of the persecuted gun owners in Canada. We appreciate your freedoms. Our government just banned some of my guns and classified them as prohibited. When it comes to gun legislation they have there heads up there butt.
Would be handy in a situation where you miss with first shot, misfire or only lightly wound someone attacking you? Perhaps not ideal for battle but for self defense situations. Nice to have a six shooter as a backup aswell.
Please no... Always makes me cringe... Fyi the percussion gun wins if the cap is on when it's dunked... That's the point in the cap. Doesn't need testing... If ya want to test it, hunt with each in the rain. Unless you put a little beeswax in front of the pan on the flintlock your main and priming charges are both going to be soaked if it's raining hard enough... Never mind if the flint will actually produce Sparks when the cock strikes it to the hammer/frizzen.
I've never heard of a swivel breech rifle before, very interesting. I've been watching Ian's videos for years and I can't recall seeing one on his channel. I'll have to go searching now.
I wonder how effective mass numbers of these used in line formations would've been, especially in units four or so ranks deep. The first two ranks would be able to fire their two shots, then reload behind the third and fourth ranks as they moved up to fire their own, so on. The fire may not be as sustained as a regular line unit, but I could see them being superb as a sort of 18th-19th century shock-troop. Massive initial fire followed by a charge.
3:56 a decently reliable way to tell if you have an air space (aka, a pipe bomb) is to "toss" the ram-rod down..... letting go of it before it hits the ball. if it bounces back up, its 98% sure its seated against the powder charge again..... use a starter (because if ya just use the ram rod..... it can break.... and then ya spear your hand clean threw) then use the ram-rod..... push it down then pull the ram-rod up about 6 inches..... and "flick" it back down the bore if it doesnt bounce... or only bounces off the ball a little bit you have an air gap (again.... this is an EXPLOSIVE condition) but if you flick it down..... and it bounces back like it hit a "bouncy ball" your seated, loaded, and ready to cap and fire
or, if you ONLY use the same powder charge and balls.... mark the ram rod with a line..... right at the crown of the barrel if the line is above the end of the barrel.... its a NO-GO but if the line is in-line or below the end of the barrel..... your good to cap and fire
Depends on the application this would have been fielded for... This doesn't strike me as "give Private Target McStumpy over there the swivel breach we got." No this strikes me as either a skirmisher or sharpshooters weapon. Something for a get in fast and get out, or a hide and look for somebody with stars on his uniform and give him lead poisoning.
The first reload isn't much faster than double reload - it's the reloading way that is significantly slower since these can't use minié balls _nor_ paper cartridges (though why you couldn't have ready-measured charges in paper pouches + a ball all ready to go escapes me). Keeping a second shot in reserve does sound like a reasonable thing to do though, especially in a unit that might have these and regular one-barrel muzzleloaders. Keeps everyone firing volleys at similar rates. So I imagine these were really just 'Pvt. McStumpy' rifles, issued out because 'it's what we got, private! Now, march into line, hop to it, get moving moving moving!' Accuracy doesn't seem to be anything to write home about either, or Karl at least left it out of this equation. So not a marksman's weapon as such, I guess.
That’s just the way it was! I will say the worst threat from loading from the powder flask was a flash ignition of the flask itself turning it into a grenade going off in your hand. I did have a flash once at the muzzle, powder burns on the wrist are no bueno but minor.
Seems pretty odd today, but I'll bet in the days two army lines standing apart and volleying at each other this seemed like a ridiculous advantage, being able to lob two volleys in the first part of the battle
I would like to see a comparison of shooting for speed and accuracy with this and other musket type rifles of the time. It would be interesting to see if you could shoot 6 or so targets at medium distance faster with this or with a more modern musket.
Interesting video! I have never seen one of these in a Confederate context before. I am not surprised given the shotguns, squirrel rifles, flintlocks and some of the other trash the south used before they got a reliable supply of Enfields. It would be interesting if you could do a segment on some of the other foreign rifles, such as the Austrian Lorenz, that both sides used until better weapons were on hand.
"Can you imagine doing this in battle?" I can imagine all sorts of ways to mess up the loading sequence and none of them good! Double charges would be easy to do, no charge under one ball, two under the other, etc.
I have basically zero experience with muzzleloading. When you put the cap on something like this, how securely does it seat? Could I load and cap both barrels and then ride around all day without worrying about them falling off?
mkfreel as Karl said yes you can ride around with it loaded, the only issues that can arise is of the caps are misshapen or of the wrong size. Other than that the caps sit fairly snugly, although just from a safety standpoint I wouldn’t cap it until you were ready to fire.
Things like this likely also saw Union service. Several museums have rifles used by Union regiments from the Trans-Mississipi Theater that were just standard plains rifles.
The draw backs of this rifle wouldn't be an issue with Confederate soldiers, with Skirmisher tactics playing a huge role. Being able to ambush with 30 soldiers armed with this thing, you have 60 shots you can fire within 5 seconds. They probably would then pull back to safety and reload without fear of a counter charge. Now on a field, this would only be useful in a pre-charge attack, although, without a bayonet, it would still be a disadvantage.
@@alswann2702 Indeed that was the case for future warfare, but even at the battle of Gettysburg, the Union and Confederacy were both using bayonet charge's. One Union company ran out of ammo and was forced into a counter charge to charging Confederates.
Interesting. Can't recall ever seeing one. When i saw swivel breech, i was thinking maybe it was a breechloader that swung open to the side. It would be fun for hunting. Militarily, if you had a platoon or so of guys with these, you could do volley fire. Divide into 3 or 4 groups. Each line fires both their shots and then reloads. But just having a few scattered through a unit does not seem to have much combat utility. Fascinating system though. Great demo
I’d be interested as to how to integrate these into linear combat. You could fire a volley with one barrel, reload it, and if attacked mud reload you have a spare shot. It’s similar to a tactical reload wherein one round is still in the chamber as you reload. For asymmetric warfare it’d increase the fire power of a small unit by double. I imagine that’d be helpful in ambush or simply against a larger opponent. Very interesting!
Karl, I wonder why paper cartridges weren't used. Load up 2 shots. Fire 1 shot with other in reserve and just use it as a single shot muzzle loader until 2nd "quick" shot is most advantageous? As to my background, usmc vet. I've made, in kit form a wheelock pistol, and a 77 cal snaphance.i also have a .50 flintlock that a old buddy made and gave to me for saving his life. SF Karl love your program gonna sponsor you when work picks up again. Thank you once again Kenny
Not bad for a sniper rifle during the period if it's accurate enough. One shot, then scoot and find another firing position was a common tactic because of black powder smoke giving away the snipers position. Having the other barrel as a back-up for a quick follow-up shot, or for self-defense when moving would be beneficial.
War has historically been the biggest catalyst for innovation. At the start of WWII, most countries were still flying biplanes, 5 years later the Germans had viable jet airplanes.
This was actually more of a hunting arm then it is a military arm. Swivel breach guns go back quite a ways, usually with nobility and the like. Never made in any significant numbers.
Very interesting concept. This seems like an excellent rifle for hunting and possibly for home defence (if you can duck down inside to reaload or grab another weapon). I probably wouldn't want it as a weapon of war though. Thanks, Karl!
Karl, Thanks for another fascinating video! You have actually addressed two interesting topics at once: swivel breech guns and loading a rifle with an UNPATCHED ball. I actually tried this once some years ago. I loaded a .50 caliber muzzleloader with a .490 round ball but without the usual .010 patch. Very quick to do but it printed about a foot and a half lower than normal on a 50 yard target. Did you have to adjust your aim when firing the unpatched ball? Also, did people really use loose caps back in the day? I know there are several capping gadgets on the market, but is there any record of such things being used historically?
4:57 "you are now looking down the bore" i was always told to put your mouth over the barrel, and exhale the CO2 in your breath will (hopefully) put out any embers still burning and its perfectly safe..... if the muzzle-loader when bang its CLEARLY unloaded.... however..... it REALLY felt strange doing it the first few times.... even KNOWING 10000000% it was unloaded also, the moisture from your breath makes cleaning easier..... (and with a patched ball.... your SORTA cleaning the gun every time ya load...sorta)
and yes.... always point it away from ya face if it does happen to have an ember.... even loading from a measure.... VS direct from the flask.... it can still burn the hell out of you..... and shoot unburnt and/or burning powder.... into your eyes (which will 98% of the time make you blind in that eye) even heard of cases where the ram-rod gets ejected out of the bore..... the bullet missing the person but the ram-rod going right thru the persons head.....
It is not strictly true that rifles with oversized ball are not ideal for napoleonic warfare. They are the ideal weapon for light infantry skirmishers.
Under the stress and chaos of combat, I would be extremely concerned about accidentally pouring a double charge down one barrel. That said, I love the inventiveness of these early repeating rifles.
For the South being Relatively Un-industrial, they certainly had an impressive array of improvised arms, lacking only in production capacity. Still goes to show how ingenuity strikes hot when defending one's home is on the Line. ^.-.^
Wonder how many people, under the stress of combat, managed to do something stupid like loading two balls into the same barrel. And in a related thought... How did people clear a bore obstruction in a muzzle loaded gun?
