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(1867) Weird Antique Split Pin Design

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Video 1867 is one of the weirdest design locks I've run across. Clearly an antique, it is best described as a split pin design. And the pins are truly weird.
----Just in ------
Hi Bill, the oversized split-pin cylinder was a patented (484443) master keying design made by the Chicago HARDWARE Company. No association to the Chicago LOCK Company that we all know. They are hardly at all rare. Thousands of old buildings on the East coast and Midwest still use these. Super rare out west though. Also made non master keyed versions which ironically ARE rare. A friend told me about you wondering what it was. I am an expert on antique locks. Hope this helps. --Vince
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Опубликовано:

27 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 150

@UTubeHandlesSuck 3 года назад

_"Virtually guarantees a catastrophic gutting failure"_ Bill says as I lean forward, eyes wide with gleeful anticipation.

@GimpyChinaman 3 года назад

Does anyone else really wanna see Bill putting that thing back together again?

@troseberry91585 3 года назад

I think it'd be tough to put one of these back together and make sure that the splits are on the right side. I'd love to see what the key for this thing looked like.

@fireboyandy 3 года назад

This is just a guess but it seems like the split pin design was an old way to allow for two different keys in one lock. You could have a master key and other key with different cuts. I could see this being used in a hotel or dorm setup for example. If you have 20 locks you could pin all of the left pins the same and have one master key that engages the pins on the left and then all of the pins on the right different for each of the doors. So the profile of the left pin key would be slightly different than the right pin key.

@JoshStLouis314 3 года назад

Exactly what I was thinking, well said too.

@skygh 3 года назад

Yup

@jehousley 3 года назад

Wouldn't the the key have to be narrow to only touch either the right side or left side?

@Thermalions 3 года назад

@@jehousley The teeth on the top would have to be (on at least one side that has the higher cut), but the blade itself would still be the width of the keyway.

@frankbiz 3 года назад

Thanks for pointing this out, makes sense that what it's purpose, certainly doesn't add security.

@brianblackwell2308 3 года назад

This is my first time ever hearing about “split pins”.

@seanrossander1275 3 года назад

The praying mantis guards against picking by oversetting the pins while you're not looking

@brianfackrell4139 3 года назад

I love learning new things.

@crazieman 3 года назад

I love your commentary Bill. While LPL is great in his own right, he's a machine. You've got the personality.

@carllewis2207 3 года назад

Deep wall sockets make good plug followers sometimes. Awesome lock, thanks for sharing!

@twjohnson1203 3 года назад

"You can imagine how embarrassed I was, I had my hard hat and safety goggles on and there was no catastrophic gutting failure."

@dazevers 3 года назад

Such an unusual lock, very interesting. Great find from Alex.

@kensmith8832 3 года назад

That is a neat way to create a master keyed lock.

@zeblic 3 года назад

Watching this with In Your Eyes - Peter Gabriel in the background. It works!

@robinbrowne5419 3 года назад

It looks like the ancient lock on my apartment which the landlord is too cheap to change. But it fits right in with the ancient water taps, the ancient light switches and the ancient shower nozzle.

@gedd6750 3 года назад

Great video, that's another lock I've never seen before so thanks Bill. I like the new lock lab introduction as well.

@danielwesterlund1905 3 года назад

Those were some of the most satisfying clicks I think I've ever heard.

@jayduffy7615 3 года назад

I sure do love me some Lock Lab early in the morning

@Jacksonjames4 3 года назад

This guys definitely entertaining

@seriousmaran9414 3 года назад

You just love the smell of burning lock oil in the morning, just like napalm...

@GeneralJack0neill 2 года назад

Reminds me of old railroad locks that accepted two different keys, it's an old school method of master keying locks.

@firesurfer 3 года назад

The standard key would seem to have a very thin profile at the top of the key bitting. I can see this wearing out or getting damaged fast. Only the master key would be whole. This is one of the best vids I seen yet.

@kasuha 3 года назад

I think the splits are not anti-pick feature, rather master-key feature. Usual key will open this lock using longer of the two pins, but special key with half of its width removed can open the lock by pushing on shorter of the two and this key can have very different bitting. Combinations of these could even give you keys that open different sets of locks.

@Pyrolock 3 года назад

I believe this lock was made by the J. B. Schroder & Co. Cincinnati Ohio, BRUNICO Ball Bearings, Patented October 27, 1896 per the American Lock Collectors Assoc Journal Jan / Mar 2021 -- It says that both sides of the keyway have the same cut.

@davidcovington901 3 года назад

Stream of consciousness is a delight as always. Very mysterious lock Antikythera?

@n3vmt126 3 года назад

love the gutting parts but how about showing either how to repin or the reassembly of the locks...

@corvettebob96 3 года назад

I woke up this morning looking for a possible catastrophic failure video. Didn't take long to find one. ;)

@Thermalions 3 года назад

Bill did let us down however - that was a premium gutting.

@mattp6355 3 года назад

How do you email and send bill locks

@Thermalions 3 года назад

@@mattp6355 Check the about page on his RU-vid channel, or over at his website.

@forteandblues 2 года назад

What a cool lock!

@bradw0535 3 года назад

Pick envy everytime I see that Ratyoke! Damn it's purdy! Very interesting lock, thanks for sharing Bill!

@robwebber1217 3 года назад

Bills guttings aren't slick but they are always entertaining lol

@grumpygus81 3 года назад

Love seeing something I've never seen before. Well done on the pick and the gut wasn't nearly as catastrophic as I was expecting 😉👍

@coli2543 3 года назад

Great information

@inigo_montoya 3 года назад

Bill, you're a national treasure!

@lucast3006 3 года назад

I hadn’t heard of split pins. Great video, Bill.

@donnierobertson3088 3 года назад

Great job like all ways

@Madlintelf 3 года назад

Bill, I suggest you change you term "Catastrophic failure" to Symphony of Destruction, we all make mistakes and you never hide any of yours's, I think you should celebrate that! BTW that's one heck of an interesting lock, still reading the comments I'm not sure if it was an early attempt at master keying or some other reason.

@electronicsNmore 3 года назад

That's one dirty, and highly unusual lock.

@yvessioui2716 3 года назад

May be... those half pins with the top were mixed left-right wise so you can know really in a specific lock which combination you have.

@lockangel2256 3 года назад

Those pins look like warnings on cigarette packaging. Great video as always

@GavinColbourne 3 года назад

Surely if you pushed up the 'capped' side of the split pin it would produce a false set. The way I see those split pins is an alternative to the security pins

@lwilton 3 года назад

It would depend which way you turned the core. One way they can over-set, the other way they act like solid pins.

@DarkCoffee2 3 года назад

Hmm. Just a guess but as split, pushing up the cap side would leave the non-cap side in place/binding (unless you could turn the lock over to let gravity pull the non-cap side down. You have to push the non-cap side of the pin to raise the entire pin (as it pushes against the cap). By rotating the pins (during assembly) you create a case where half-cuts on the key could alternate and add some degree of complexity. I would think varying the height of the non-cap side of the split pin would allow for even more key complexity? Just thinking aloud..

@lastmanstanding9536 3 года назад

Looks like a old Corbin Russwin. Does the Corbin follow through fit in the plug? I ran into something similar a few years back. They made some strange keyways in the 30s to the 50s.

@jamesbp 3 года назад

Wow just wow

@11219KID 3 года назад

My guess is that picking the side with the flange will act like a spool or T pin and the need to release it will get the other skinny pins that were already picked to fall down, like gate keepers. And the only reason why it got picked on the first attempt is the crud inside didn't let the pins drop easily, imagine if it was shiny and slippery.

@tonyfletcher2541 3 года назад

Great pick! Cool design

@PapaGleb 3 года назад

Another great one Bill 👍

@jesseerven4859 2 года назад

thanks for the video :)

@MrEdwardhartmann 3 года назад

two questions - do you know which half of the split pin was on the left and which was on the right in each chamber? They have to go back in the same orientation they were originally in if a key exist for the lock. Also, what kept the pins from spinning in the chamber? There must have been at least one flat side. Bonus question - how do you manufacture a hole with a flat side?

@John-lx8iu 3 года назад

I really wish you had a key for that lock. Part of me wonders if this was an attempt at an alternate way of having a master key. Also, it looks like the pins are round but are they perhaps oval? If they are round, I'm not sure what would keep them from spinning around and mixing up left and right.

@Kev2Tall 3 года назад

That split pin works very similar to a pin in pin. If the flanged side is picked and catches the other side can still drop down preventing an unlock. You would have to get lucky picking the unflanged side on every pin to get each pin on one try.

@Thermalions 3 года назад

It doesn't matter which side you pick, and don't need to pick the same side on all pins. Picking either side will push the pin with the 'cap' of the split pins to the shear line.

@thelockpickinglebowski633 3 года назад

Cool lock and nice work!

@plektosgaming 3 года назад

It's a shame it's not actually split as it would make it so much harder to pick.

@bisaacs5841 3 года назад

think how fun you would have with a overset

@plug4uk696 3 года назад

I can only reason why those are split in that manner as an early form of anti-picking, because if you lift the shorter section of the pin it will lift the whole pin bit if you lift the longer section of the pin then the other half should remain behind which would prevent the lock being turned, well that's my theory anywsy ;-)

@RAkers-tu1ey 3 года назад

Very odd, never seen it before. Thanks.

@markb3633 3 года назад

Thanks for sharing

@gozzendk 3 года назад

Thanks for the video 🔒🔑👍

@geekseby 2 года назад

Happy retirement, wish you a wonderful life!

@gdaem1 3 года назад

What would keep the pins from twisting and letting the 'short' part of the split pin from falling into the keyway?

@brandons7272 3 года назад

Both halves of the pin with push up to the sheer line but wouldn't it make it so the one without the end cap on it could fall back down if you don't have enough tension on it making it so it blocks the shear line with the half that doesn't have thin cap??

@tommypetraglia4688 3 года назад

2:08 That's a permanent groove dented into the tip of your middle finger from where you work the pick. Lol. So that's what I'm doing wrong, I'm not wearing my fingers to the bone 🦴

@PatrickPoet 3 года назад

What's to keep the pins from rotating so they aren't left and right but front or back or something else?

@UTubeHandlesSuck 3 года назад

I'm guessing that has to do with each pin hole in the core having a small hole cross-drilled near the top, which you can see right before Bill begins dumping key pins. Didn't get a really good look, but a small guide pin in each of those cross-drilled holes with a slight flat side on the split pins could prevent them from rotating. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it. *_grin_* Look at 8:51 the second pin from the left looks like it has a flat side, and the third looks like it might have a thin groove down the side. And the cross holes I mentioned are clearly visible. Also look down the empty bore at 9:29 that could be a small protruding pin, or could just be light on the lower side of the cross drilled hole.

@twestgard2 3 года назад

My question also.

@derekbroestler7687 3 года назад

That's just WEIRD!!! I have seen oversized pins and large plug diameters in antique mortise locks... Typically old Corbins and Sargents... The top pins with the alignment "nub" as well. (Both used them at one time or another).. I've never seen the split pins.. Only two theories on it. 1. If the two halves, when assembled have differing hights, it's most likely an unusual masterkey system, where the both the MK and change key would fit the keyway, but the top of the blades would be reversed. (There are wafer tumbler cam locks that still use this method) 2. If the two halves are the same it might have been an anti picking measure, with the pin with the top snagging if it was over lifted.... They would also be a total pain to bump or pick with an old school wire "snapper pick"... (Even though bumping only became common knowledge with the internet, locksmiths have known about it for over 100 years) Either way it's definitely an oddball and I'm glad to have the opportunity to see it.

@billcarson1966 3 года назад

I think I'm most intrigued by how a possible blade of grass got stuck in there. That's a head scratcher. LOL

@Thermalions 3 года назад

Drop keys in the grass on approach to the door while fumbling to locate the correct key on the ring, pick them up and put them in the lock. I actually wondered whether it was a piece of green tinsel though, which would explain why it's still green.

@holidayfartcruiserthe2nd749 3 года назад

I almost wonder if the design was to leave one half of the pin floating so that you would get mixed feedback from the lock, and depending on which 1/2 of the pin you were on the feedback would be conflicting.

@johnhodges8264 3 года назад

Surley if the pin was not caped then it would make picking far more difficult due to the fact you might keep lifting up and down one half of the pin and so keep getting false sets.

@seitenryu6844 3 года назад

Is the shank of the pins round or not? I'd think you'd need a profile to prevent pin rotation.

@JONDEMORAY 3 года назад

Any pin rotation would appear to be a disaster for key use let alone picking !

@penfold7800 3 года назад

I suppose the design would create problems if the picker overseer one of the pins. Maybe it prevents raking and bumping too. Weird lock tho.

@danareed1656 3 года назад

vary interesting!

@nukenvy2 3 года назад

If picked wrong with a false set could you get one of the hooks raised too high above the cylinder and get it stuck so you would need to restart to get the pin in hooked?

@Thermalions 3 года назад

Not too likely I'd say (no more than a normal pin being overset anyway), as the paired split pin without the cap would stop it from moving sideways to catch outside the cylinder. If the tolerances are poor, with the non cap pin being very short and having dropped down, then maybe there would be enough rotational movement of the cap end along it's length within the cylinder.

@mindofmadness5593 3 года назад

Glad I watched. Got a Beginners set a few months ago but Life and stuff has it sitting under a pile of crap somewhere on my computer table. Need to pull it iut and get to Learnin'. BTW, what is the camera you used to look down that Keyway? I'm actually a Photographer and been getting into Video-something like that could be useful for me.

@goneutt 3 года назад

If the holes and pins are round, how does it not rotate?

@johndododoe1411 3 года назад

How does this compare to the split pins in d12 cylinders?

@gkeyman565 3 года назад

Nice Lock, after seeing it disassembled it would have been nice to know what the orientation of the pins were because it looks as if the two halves don't line up even at the bottoms, seems like a different way to master key it depending on what side the bitting was cut into a key with a thin blade. Also, was there a feature that made the pins stay left and right or could they freely spin? Have a great day

@nickserafine6345 3 года назад

@Bosnianbill i have been following your videos for years, as always your content is great. I have quite a collection of unique locks, including a very old sargent mastering padlock. Not a removeable core master ring btw. If you would like to borrow it for a video I would be happy to ship it to you.

@nhschleicher 3 года назад

How are the key pins indexed to stay oriented correctly? They looked circular

@firesurfer 3 года назад

Good question.

@oxyuran5998 3 года назад

Uhm, Bill, wouldn't the ledge catch in a really nasty way if overset? Say it points counterclockwise and you pick clockwise and happened to overset the half pin with the ledge, could you recover from that without losing all the correct sets?

@roysammons2445 3 года назад

What an unusual lock. I still guess it matters that you orientate the split pins back in the correct left/right side?

@firesurfer 3 года назад

I was trying to see if there was any way to identify the orientation of the split. Without a close examination in hand, it would be difficult to know.

@roysammons2445 3 года назад

@@firesurfer Thanks for the response 🙂👍🏻

@fleurdelispens 3 года назад

We need a disassembly oof meter

@richardwestmoreland5612 3 года назад

Someone’s attempt at 2 keys for a single lock?

@fmike15 3 года назад

What keeps the split pins from turning? If they rotated they would be useless.

@CathyInBlue 3 года назад

Was that first pin(s) in upside-down?

@Westhelockpicker 3 года назад

I haven't got to use my hooligan bar yet lol

@SwervingLemon 3 года назад

Try that again and intentionally overset one of the pins with a cap on it. If I interpret this correctly, you should have to reset the lock to get any progress.

@madcapmagician6018 3 года назад

cool but what is the purpose of split pins????

@KD2HJP 3 года назад

Mornin!

@CandyGramForMongo_ 3 года назад

Roll your parts in a rock tumbler with jeweler’s shot, vinegar, and a drop of dish soap. They will come out looking brand new.

@scarz1951 3 года назад

Pretty KEWL pickin. How you approach that if you has no lock cam and no idea why it acts funky?

@Pyrolock 3 года назад

What a bizarre lock -- never seen anything like it -- anybody know what this is or have a key to show us?

@th3hairyhitman209 3 года назад

Maybe picking left or right would depend on how this pins react? So, for example, if the head of the pin is connected to the right side, and you're picking clockwise, the left side of the split pin could act as a serrated? Just a thought anyway. :)

@-NGC-6302- 3 года назад

Funky

@blankblank4949 3 года назад

anyone feel a little sleazy after looking down such a dirty keyway?

@DanBowkley 3 года назад

Just here for the humiliation...yeah Bill we remember the banana episode. 😁 I'd think for pick resistance it'd be way more effective to split the drivers rather than the keypins, I'm thinking it'd act like a weird spool and give a really deep false set. Do you know what's with the little sideways holes in the core? Guessing anti-rotation..

@sobertillnoon 3 года назад

Is this some sort of mastering system ?

@bunnylove273 3 года назад

Hi bud itvlooks like you had a real challenge there great vid

@DonzLockz 3 года назад

Sorta like a Bilock.🤔

@smartin23964 3 года назад

I once managed a pizza restaurant in NC, and the lock on the front door was similar to this one. It flipped a huge bolt up to lock door. Anyway, the key looked like 2 keys made out of same piece of metal. When we had to change locks, they keys had to be special made/ordered. I always thought the key looked goofy.

@douro20 3 года назад

If it's a U-shaped key with two rows of bitting that's a BiLock.

@richardedwards3098 3 года назад

what a nasty dirty lock! im surprised that you didn’t shoot it full of wd40! but awesome job picking it bill!

@nukenvy2 3 года назад

Could this be an early version of a master key system?

@thirstiestvillager9233 3 года назад

Possibly one from a time when master pins were patented?

@reynaldovalle1773 3 года назад

Where did you buy that Vice can you please let me know so I can purchase one.

@kewltune4683 3 года назад

It made by Panavise (300 series). Search for it since there are many places you can buy this from.

@reynaldovalle1773 3 года назад

@@kewltune4683 THANK YOU VERY MUCH I AM A RETIRED LOCKSMITH.. I still have my tools old key machines and live old padlocks I even have a mortise lock with double key.