I shoot a few different Ruger no 1 rifles but to me, the 1885 is the most elegant American rifle design. I love this series you are doing. Great shooting. Great rifle!
I took my xbolt 6.5cm, AR10 6.5cm, and TC encore 6.5cm to the range today and the xbolt was shooting 1/4” groups with 143gr Hornady precision hunter and the AR10 was shooting 1/2-3/4” groups with 140gr Remington core-lokts of all things at 100 yards, I was extremely pleased. The encore on the other hand is a different story I was lucky to get anything under 1.5”-2” trying every ammo I had. I guess I’ll be calling Mike Bellm and ordering a 1X hinge pin.
Those Encores can be a little finicky but honestly I think all of the single shots are a little more load sensitive? But I'm sure you'll get it dialed in.
we use 745 food grade silicone and wipe every loaded round down. Never had a stuck case even when we cracked a case it didnt stick, And i whole hartedly agree for that gun neck sizing is defanetly the way to go! Great shooting btw.
Glad to see that the rifle turned out better than expected when you first looked into it with the bore scope and saw what could be several problems. I own an 1885 Low Wall in 22 Caliber and am very happy with its performance, however, I am happily shooting it out to 50 yards and only pushing it out to 75 yards. No other rifle, of which I am aware, has been made into soooooo many calibers. Keep them videos coming.
How you dont have 20 million subscribers is crazy. Also from what I have read is hammer rifles are more difficult to get grouping like that. Something about the physics of a large hammer falling vs a firing pin.
Interesting! I've heard the phrase regarding seating depth something along the lines that "Changing seating depth can make a good load better, but it will never make an awful load into a good one." And that kind of sticks for me. Used more for fine tuning. I've heard VLD type bullets are affected more by seating depth than others, but I don't have much first hand experience with those either. Nice to see it all coming together!
Andy, I've heard the same about the VLD bullets but I haven't used them either. I was wondering if that was going to be an issue with the ELD bullets but didn't seem to be.
Back before everything went to crap and could find primers at the gas station, my procedure was this. Get the powder charge on point, then the seating depth, then the primer type/brand. Oh and seating depth can play a huge role, depending on the rifle. I have an old m95 chelian mauser that was shot out decades ago. It would shoot 20+" groups at 80ish yards. But with my hand loads, trying to make up for the extreme throat erosion, it will now shoot groups the size of my palm at the same distance.
Great stuff I have the same model rifle and caliber Very similar load development The 130 grain bullets have proven the best for me as well My best loads are rl16 and 130 sierra gamechangers, superformance and 129 Barnes LRX I created these loads for hunting Good luck and enjoy your great rifle
Man looking good. I'd stick a fork in it. Yet i can't wait to see the next steps. Very impressive. I don't guess you will be sending this rifle back to the shop lol.
Tom What is the trigger pull?. I have my favorite 338x378 set at 2&1/2 pounds. Once on target there's no flicth. Also each powder and primers have different bacth lots that can vary Group size. You are 100 % right each rifle you have to see what they like, the same way a woman is, by her the wrong flowers and your on the couch
Thanks for that Charles. I hadn't even thought about applying the Pareto principle to this but that's exactly what we're talking about here. I'll be sure to explain that in the video.
Hello Tom you have learn me a lot today that I haven't figured out in more than 30 years of reloading . You and Ricky Bell have been been a great help for me to get better in my reloading skills and I appreciate it very much . I am satisfied if I can get 1/2 to 5/8 groups. God bless and have a good week sir
Thanks Roger, and something I'm going to explain after I get this dialed in is the difference between developing a hunting load and a target load because a hunting load is way tougher. And for a hunting load I'm tickled if I can get 1/2" or 5/8" and I'll call it good at anything under 1".
Tom, very nice shooting. Couple questions. Distance of your shots? Guessing 100 yards? What scope were you using and at what power? I started shooting at a range this year using mostly my Lupe 270 and 308 bolt action. I don’t load ammo. I target practice with Hornady Precision Hunter ELD-X. I hunt with Nosler Partition. My groups have steadily improved as my range visits have increased. I have been looking to improve my shooting for the PA rifle season. I am happy with my progress and for this year and I just “put the pencil down”. I still get an occasional flyer now and then but am in the area of 3/4 inch groups or a little better. In listening to your presentation I realize there is more I can learn to improve my results. For now I am not going to do reloads. I have no experience in doing that nor do I have the equipment. So my goal for continuing my shooting is to maintain that consistency. Your videos make me aware there is still room for improvement should I decide to look for that. I am very happy with my progress this year and for now will look to shoot the consistent groups at the level I am currently at. I’ve learned practice is a big part of accomplishing that. I should also mention I have the same scopes for each of those rifles. The Leupold X6 HD with power out to 18. Those scopes have helped quite a bit too. Thank you for helping me along. I have a lot of confidence in going put to my stand this year.
I have a Remington 700 in 6.5 CM and I’ve never been so fastidious about load development. I can’t wait to see you stretch the legs of this Winchester.
Kent, I'm just hoping those velocities stay consistent when I do stretch it on out there. If they stay consistent then she'll be driving tacks at distance.
As a hunter and not precision shooter, I can be very happy with consistent 1MOA groups. Even 1.5MOA is sufficient out to 400yds to be lethal and ethical. Great video and shooting.
Thanks Greg, and I was just telling someone else that after this I'm going to go over developing a hunting load because that's way more difficult than a target load.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving your welcome. I love watching you work on these guns. You do some really great work. I’ve learned a lot with your gun not shooting consistently because the stock was worked. I have a custom Sako L759 chambered in 257 Roberts that’s doing the same thing. I’ll have check that. I thought maybe it was the quality control on the factory ammo. It used to be a real tack driver.
Hello again Tom. Nice to see you got your rifle driving tacks… very nice 👍. So was your overall conclusion that it was your neck size only this time, or powder charge, or both? Nice shooting, can’t wait to see your priority list soon. I’m eager to learn the main most important steps 1st, and then how to fine tune things from there. Hopefully this will not be caliber specific. For I don’t have a 6.5 to shoot. Thanks for taking us along on your journey Tom, always enjoy your videos, and what I can learn from them. Best wishes always… God bless. 😎👍
Mike, there is nothing caliber specific about anything I'm doing here. And I still need to verify what was causing all of that vertical stuff from the last trip because I'm still not entirely sure, but my suspicion is that it was the way I was seating them? And the biggest thing by far is getting the right bullet and powder combination that your gun likes. My groups shrunk a little bit from neck sizing but going to that 130gr bullet is what made the biggest difference.
I have recently started to reload however before ordering all the die’s and press etc I too factory ammo and pulled bullets to close to CBTO and reseated following Jack Neary process. With .007” from ogive I was able to shoot 3 180gr Remington Tipped into same hole on a 308 chambered Franchi Monentum Elite at 100 yards. Keep adjusting and you will find the node.
Dang good shooting there Tom. I love range trips like that. Hold you head a little higher, little hitch in your giddy up. Too bad those are too few and far between for me.
Thanks Todd, and honestly I would have strutting a little more but by the time I got that part in the shop filmed I was dragging. It was a long a day, but it sure was a good one!
After listening to the hornady podcast on the stats of reloading and group sizing I’ve become super interested in the subject. I’d love to see you do 20-30 shot groups of great loads vs the same load at a random different powder charge (same powder/safe pressure) and see if they are actually different
J, you have to keep in mind that the people saying do 30 shot groups also sell bullets! LOL But I'm sure they are correct. I haven't listened to that pod cast but for any sample to be statistically significant you need a sample size of at least 30. But you don't have to do all 30 at once. I'm really interested in 2 powder charges in particular right now and with the testing we've already done we have 7 samples for one and 6 for the other since I through out the first shot. And since you're interested in the subject you really need to check out some of the videos by Keith at his channel winning in the wind. He is a much better statistician than I am. But with that said, there is no point in doing 20 or 30 shots for a load that you already know doesn't meet your requirements. Our goal for this project is to shoot a sub .5 MOA group at 5 yards. A 3 shot group that shoots .75 MOA out of the gate isn't worth pursuing because it has already failed to meet our goal. A load that shoots .3 MOA with 3 shots will almost certainly open up after enough firings but it's worth pursuing because it hasn't failed the requirement yet. You can also apply that to the Satterly method of load development where you fire a shot at different charge weights and chart the velocity and then pick a charge weight in the flat spot of the curve. The problem with that is if you fire enough shots and get a large enough sample size that velocity curve turns into a straight line.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving for sure, I want to clarify I meant no negativity! I simply wanted to see you try it at the end to see if all this work we do is just us running in circles or not! I enjoy your content and didn’t mean to imply any negetivity and they absolutely talk about how 3 shots can show us what we don’t want just like you said here! I’m excited to see how this goes. I’d love an 1885 or a ruger no 1 in creedmoor for my son to learn on but I can’t find one with open sights
@@J_Un1t J I didn't take that as a negative at all. I suspect if we did a 30 shot group size for several different groups we would see all sorts of things we didn't expect. And I've often wondered similar thoughts myself especially when it comes to minor things like seating depth.
Tom, are you planning on testing a load for hunting to achieve the same results? I was thinking this is what the purpose of this development is for. How does that factor into your load development or is this rifle just for LR competition? Outstanding groups, BTW.
EastTexan, I just told a couple of others that has similar questions that I'm going to go over developing a hunting load next because developing a hunting load is way more difficult. This was just to prove that a 140 year old out dated obsolete rifle design is still just as accurate as anything modern despite what marketing tells us. And I think I'm getting that point across?
Ryan Cleckner, formerly sniper team leader in the 1st Ranger Battalion 75th Ranger Regiment has said that the human is the most inaccurate part of a rifle system. From trigger squeeze to shoulder fatigue. And certainly it depends on the shooting style. Some guys only shoot from the bench with bags. As opposed to hunters like us where we are lucky have a rest for the forearm of the stock and the recoil pad is against our shoulder or upper pectoralis major. Also, I have seen great results from guys who spent over $2k alone on a Bartlein barrel, another couple of grand on a gucci action. By the time they are done spending, including $4k on a scope, they have spentt 10 - 12k on the rifle. Which I could see doing if my intent was to win big purses at shooting competitions. And I have had 1 MOA and sub-MOA accuracy with inexpensive factory barrels. I am not the greatest shooter but I I also do not blame the mistakes on the equipment.
RONWS, I'm going to explain the difference between a hunting load and target load when I finish this because for me it's much harder to come up with a good hunting load than a target load? And it's so much easier to get a target load to shoot good. And as for Ryan Cleckner, I like that guy. He's about as sharp as they come.
I’ll respectfully disagree with your thoughts on the importance of seating depth. In my experience rifles with long free bore can have the precision improved dramatically by seating the projectile within 30 thou off the lands. Often this means there is no chance of running them through the magazine but isn’t the first shot the one that really matters? Can always have a magazine full of less precise rounds for back up. Always looking forward to your next video.
VARG, anything under 1 inch for a hunting load and I'm happy. And the funny thing is it's easier to get a target load to shoot like this than to get a good hunting load to shoot 3/4 of an inch.
It's nothing short of amazing! At least to me. I would not have expect the results that Mr. River is getting from this thing because that chamber looked like such an accuracy-sucking handicap to me.
Gizmo, I tried the Varget in the last video with the 140gr Sierra and that's when I got all of that vertical variation. I have no doubt it would shoot great with the 130's but unless I see velocity problems at distance I'm just going to stick with the IMR4350. It seems to be doing the job. And I have to say I wasn't expecting this with that chamber either.
Gentleman I disagree that group size matters less .Yes even a 2 inch group is usable to put meat on the Table.. Used em myself.. However I want the best grouping possible for such. Why shoot 1.5 at 100 if ya can get .5 at same. ??? Tom looking forward to that on series on hunting ammo..
Kind of powder are you using mostly? I am reloading .308 and 30-06 with Vithavouri N150 and N540 using Hornady Match Eld and Lapua Mega E469 with luck.
T Foss, I've been sticking with the old standbys: IMR 4350, H 4831, and Varget. I was shooting IMR 4350 today and that seems to be the powder for this rifle.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Ok, we don't have those brands in Norway, but in any case it's probably right to stick to what you know works regardless of what kind of gunpowder you use.
@@GoldwingNorway Those are really old stick powders here and both go back to WWII or before. IMR stands for Improved Military Rifle and IMR 4350 was originally developed for the 30-06. H4831 was developed for big anti aircraft rounds on Navy ships and that was the powder that gave the 270 Winchester it's velocity. It's funny though because Vithavouri is a new powder to us and it's all the rage with competition shooters now but I bet you've had it for sometime?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Yes Vithavouri has been on the market here for many years, we have several other brands such as Hodgon, RS and several others, but no particularly older types other than for example Norma etc. I prefer Vithavouri as it provides excellent precision with Barnes and Hornady bullets with a flat trajectory and good BC for both hunting and range shooting.
Shooting hole for hole is just about impossible.. JUST ABOUT.. but possible.. but ur talking about taking into account wind, your heart beat, how touchy ur trigger is. There so much to put into getting behind a rifle to be an accurate shooter.. and if the gun isn't shooting well one day.. Chances are, it's the shooter.. NOT THE GUN. Thanks for the journey u took us on.
