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1886 Cambridge University Exam Integral 

Michael Penn
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5 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 114   
@sayandas5
@sayandas5 3 месяца назад
You never mentioned that technically this is an improper integral, as the denominator vanishes when x=4, 0. And the numerator is undefined when x=0.
@unflexian
@unflexian 3 месяца назад
your thumbnail doesn't have ln x
@2kchallengewith4video
@2kchallengewith4video 3 месяца назад
Welp, someone got fired
@jordonm5675
@jordonm5675 3 месяца назад
ngl i was disappointed when i saw the bait and switch math problem when i clicked on the video. we all got played.
@unflexian
@unflexian 3 месяца назад
@@jordonm5675 nah he isn't a click bait channel like that, it's probably just an honest mistake imo
@KilamSabba
@KilamSabba 3 месяца назад
I saw the thumbnail, didn’t play the video, solved it to an answer of zero, then watched the switched integral. Well, at least the final answer is the same. (Oops, it might be pi/2 - (-pi/2) = pi , not 0 )
@andrewhone3346
@andrewhone3346 3 месяца назад
​@@KilamSabbayes without the ln x it's pi: integrand is positive over the whole interval so can't be zero!
@mcalkis5771
@mcalkis5771 3 месяца назад
Man that's a use of a really satisfying method to get a really unsatisfying result.
@holyshit922
@holyshit922 3 месяца назад
Euler's substitution sqrt(4x-x^2) = ux Split into two integrals 2ln(2)\int\limits_{0}^{\infty}\frac{1}{1+u^2}du - 2\int\limits_{0}^{\infty}\frac{\ln(1+u^2)}{1+u^2}du - 2\int\limits_{0}^{\infty}\frac{\ln(1+u^2)}{1+u^2}du This integral can be calculated by u = tan(theta) substitution
@dinuwarabinudithdesilva5464
@dinuwarabinudithdesilva5464 3 месяца назад
Just let x = 4sin^2(u) and dx = 8(sinu)(cosu)du. This will simplify much more rapidly. ☺
@thejelambar82
@thejelambar82 3 месяца назад
But such substitution is not "regular". Personally, I prefer to work out from known substitution like rewrite it as 4-(x-2)² then use x-2=2sin(t)
@fartsniffa8043
@fartsniffa8043 3 месяца назад
so you did both of his substitutions in one step?
@anshumanmondal8317
@anshumanmondal8317 3 месяца назад
Please explain
@kjl3080
@kjl3080 3 месяца назад
I don’t think anyone could possibly see that substitution- this may be shorter but it’s probably harder
@suwapete9761
@suwapete9761 3 месяца назад
​​@@kjl3080its fairly easy to see if the denominator is split into sqrt x and sqrt(1-x)
@FishSticker
@FishSticker 3 месяца назад
Since when does sin(x-pi/2) ever equal sin(x)… no matter the interval
@cheesetheorange4503
@cheesetheorange4503 3 месяца назад
yeah have no idea where that came from
@FishSticker
@FishSticker 3 месяца назад
@@cheesetheorange4503 this makes me feel so weird about the whole proof
@LaurentPaulMontaron
@LaurentPaulMontaron 3 месяца назад
Came here to say this. What is he smoking?
@hydropage2855
@hydropage2855 3 месяца назад
Yeah that definitely caught me off guard. I feel like every video he makes a really noticeable mistake, but then he’s going off his notes which are correct, so he doesn’t realize he makes these huge mistakes
@FishSticker
@FishSticker 3 месяца назад
@@hydropage2855 I don't think this happens nearly every video, but it happens like a quarter of the time
@gregsarnecki7581
@gregsarnecki7581 3 месяца назад
Good use of the 'magic box that erases part of the blackboard' at 5:51 and 15:04. It's what got me interested in his videos in the first place!
@worldnotworld
@worldnotworld 3 месяца назад
Back in 1980 I got a 5 on AP Calc AB, and a 4 on AP Calc BC, but I would not have gotten into Cambridge back in 1886. Dang! All of these steps are things I would have known how to do (though in my aged rustiness I need to be reminded), but to put this together? Really cool stuff.
@thomashoffmann8857
@thomashoffmann8857 3 месяца назад
10:30 sin(u - pi/2) = sin(u) Is this right? 🤔 Not -cos(x)?
@buldysk1537
@buldysk1537 3 месяца назад
It is correct. The equation says that sine is symmetric around x = pi/2.
@nerdatmath
@nerdatmath 3 месяца назад
Right; take u = 2pi/3, which is in the interval of u. sin(u-pi/2) = sin(pi/6) = 1/2. But sin(u) = sin(2pi/3) = sqrt(3)/2. So definitely not a valid substitution.
@yulflip
@yulflip 3 месяца назад
it is wrong: at u=pi/2, sin(0) is NOT sin(pi/2)!! But, the integrals should be the same: instead of sin(u-pi/2) going from 0 to 1, it's sin(u) going from 1 to 0
@thomashoffmann8857
@thomashoffmann8857 3 месяца назад
​@@buldysk1537this would mean sin(pi/2 + x) = sin(pi/2 - x). Just insert x=pi/2 in his formula.
@michaelguenther7105
@michaelguenther7105 3 месяца назад
You are correct and Michael is wrong. Since the integral of ln(sin x) from 0 to pi/2 is the same as the integral over ln(cos x), the third term should be a copy of the second term (with the cosine), and then the substitution u = x + pi/2 works to give the result Michael wants.
@renscience
@renscience 3 месяца назад
Can’t imagine a tough time consuming exam question like this unless it’s multiple guess😂 In real life it would take hours to hammer it out and it proves little as an exam question ( other than probing your character).
@user-pv9yv7nc3o
@user-pv9yv7nc3o 3 месяца назад
You missed the fraction line at the cover picture
@mathematics_and_energetics
@mathematics_and_energetics 3 месяца назад
MEGA! Thank you for presenting this integral! 😊
@sami-qv4st
@sami-qv4st 3 месяца назад
Another cool way to compute ∫ln(sinx)dx is to use Riemann sums, as pi/2n∑ln(sin(k*pi/2n) tends to the value of the integral as n tends to infinity. you then have to compute ∏sin(kpi/2n) which is classic and is equal to n/2^n. You then conclude with the uniqueness of the limit.
@ismailhamza5219
@ismailhamza5219 2 месяца назад
Making the substitution x=4sin^2(p), after making the preliminary factorization on the quantity under the radical, √X(4-X), reduces everything very quickly!
@grantizmirlian8979
@grantizmirlian8979 3 месяца назад
Easy freshman calc. Complete the square, substitute. Arc sine. Answer pi
@hugh081
@hugh081 3 месяца назад
Nice to see my old room in the thumbnail :)
@emanuellandeholm5657
@emanuellandeholm5657 3 месяца назад
Nice problem professor! I just stumbled over the integrand ln(sin x) on smaller math channel, and I remembered how you solved that problem using a phase shift. I feel like this should be a field of study: the class of non trivial integrands whose integral vanish over some interval with nonzero measure.
@rainerzufall42
@rainerzufall42 3 месяца назад
Wow, I haven't seen this coming, that the area on the interval from 1 to 4 (no pi around) exactly compensates the negative area from 0 to 1!
@goodplacetostop2973
@goodplacetostop2973 3 месяца назад
20:09 This is not the thumbnail 🤨
@Ricardo_S
@Ricardo_S 3 месяца назад
From what it said in the thumbnail the answer is π First √(4x-x²)=√(4-x)*√(x) u=√(4-x) du=-[1]/[2√(4-x)]dx -2du=[1/[√(4-x)]dx u²=4-x u²-4=-x 4-u²=x √(4-u²)=√(x) Change of limits u(0)=2 u(4)=0 So {0}S{4}([dx]/[√(4x-x²)])= {2}S{0}([-2du]/[√(4-u²)]) We can take the 2 out from the integral, and change the limits of integrations with the negative sign 2*{0}S{2}([du]/[(4-u²)]) Now trig substitution u=2sin(θ) du=2cos(θ)dθ θ=arcsin([u]/[2]) θ(0)=arcsin(0)=0 θ(2)=arcsin(1)=[π]/[2] u²=4sin²(θ) 4-u²=4-4sin²(θ)=4(1-sin²(θ))=4cos²(θ) So 2*{0}S{[π]/[2]}([2cos(θ)dθ]/[√(4cos²(θ))])= 2*{0}S{[π]/[2]}([2cos(θ)dθ]/[|2cos(θ)|]) Because 2cos(θ) its positive on the interval [0,π÷2] |2cos(θ)|=2cos(θ) 2*{0}S{[π]/[2]}([2cos(θ)dθ]/[2cos(θ)])= 2*{0}S{[π]/[2]}(dθ)= 2*θ{[π]/[2]\0}= 2*([π]/[2]-0)=π
@forcelifeforce
@forcelifeforce 3 месяца назад
Obi Wan Kenobi: "These are not the droids you are seeking."
@adamnoakes2550
@adamnoakes2550 3 месяца назад
10:55 I got lost at this step. How can sin(x) subbed to make cos(t) result in cos(x) with the same bounds?
@cycklist
@cycklist 3 месяца назад
Wonderful editing :)
@henrikstenlund5385
@henrikstenlund5385 3 месяца назад
this is simpler to solve by substituting x=t**2 and the t=cos(y) and the integral becomes trivial
@krabkrabkrab
@krabkrabkrab 3 месяца назад
There is a way simpler way to do the first integral: Just substitute t^2 for x. You get 2 times integral of 1/sqrt(1-t^2) from zero to one 2 times a half circle area of radius one. pi.
@GlenMacDonald
@GlenMacDonald 3 месяца назад
The integral you're talking about (ie, the area of a half-circle of radius 1) would be ∫√(1-t²)dt, evaluated from -1 to 1.
@eveeeon341
@eveeeon341 3 месяца назад
This got me thinking, I always pause when I do a trig substitution, because the range of (cos and sin) trig functions is -1 to 1, so you can't always use it, but with the explicit example of scaling the domain by a change of variables to x = 4y and thus enabling the use of trig substitutions, but this only works for definite integrals, I wonder if there's ever a case where you can do something similar with indefinite integrals and you take a limit or something. To give a crude example x = y * 1/h where h -> infinity. This won't work in most cases, but you might be able to get a cancelation in the integral, and therefore you technically convert an indefinite integral to a definite one where the bounds are between -1 and 1 so you can use cos or sin substitution. I've not fully thought this through, I've only had the idea seeded by the video.
@PotatoImaginator
@PotatoImaginator 3 месяца назад
He always know the good place to stop 😮
@zemm69
@zemm69 3 месяца назад
I don't understand why you could say u and x are both just dummy variables when u is in terms of x.
@GlenMacDonald
@GlenMacDonald 3 месяца назад
Every definite integral has as a dummy variable, and that dummy variable exists regardless of what substitutions may or may not have been done to get it to its present form. Think in terms of the dummy variable used in a sum using ∑ notation. Whether it's i or j or something else doesn't matter, including if the index j was a re-index of the index i.
@Bjowolf2
@Bjowolf2 3 месяца назад
What are the limitations as to which types of integrals that are computable in practice? - when do we just have to give up straight away?
@wolfmanjacksaid
@wolfmanjacksaid 3 месяца назад
Seems like a ton of these types of integrals end up with a ln2 in the solution. Just an observation
@ultrametric9317
@ultrametric9317 3 месяца назад
I was doing this in my head and read it wrong, so I completed the square with the substitution u = (x-2), and ended up with arcsin of -2 and 2, which are imaginary! But the imaginary parts cancel and you get a real number. So that was a fun mistake.
@aronbucca6777
@aronbucca6777 3 месяца назад
I solved the thumbnail integral before watching the video 😭
@dalibormaksimovic6399
@dalibormaksimovic6399 3 месяца назад
W Respect for Cambridge math!
@Gringohuevon
@Gringohuevon 3 месяца назад
Very relaxing! Thanks Michael!
@JamesJD3
@JamesJD3 3 месяца назад
Integ 0 to 2 is (-2 Catalan). The question is why? Something is going on. Maybe the world is flat we are just looking at it wrong. I doubt anyone that has not seen the solution could solve this on a test. So what were they testing?
@billh5923
@billh5923 3 месяца назад
So the first step is to change the problem? is that how they do things at Cambridge?
@letsimage
@letsimage 3 месяца назад
so, it seems i would fail it
@tixanthrope
@tixanthrope 3 месяца назад
The integral in the thumbnail is equal to pi. I have not tried to solve the one in the video yet.
@antonior9991
@antonior9991 3 месяца назад
Rewrite the part under the root as 4(1-(x-2)^2/4) and substitute (x-2)/2=tanh t
@richardheiville937
@richardheiville937 3 месяца назад
integral of 1/sqrt(x-x^2)dx,x=0,1 is a lame integral. You perform the change of variable u=sqrt(x) then you perform the change of variable u=sin(t).
@GlenMacDonald
@GlenMacDonald 3 месяца назад
I asked ChatGPT what a "lame integral" was, and it said that "lame" was probably a mispronunciation of "Lamé", and that Lamé integrals are special integrals of the Lamé function, which are solutions of Lamé's differential equation which occur in mathematical physics and elliptic function theory. It also said that the other possibility was that the person using the term was just being a dick.
@richardheiville937
@richardheiville937 3 месяца назад
@@GlenMacDonald ChatGPT is a lamer.
@eartphoze
@eartphoze 3 месяца назад
Awesome job wit facebook
@jessedutton3112
@jessedutton3112 3 месяца назад
If you graph 1/sqrt(4x-x^2), it is entirely above the x axis, meaning that it cannot have an integral of 0
@5alpha23
@5alpha23 3 месяца назад
Well, if you consider that the thumbnail is wrong and look at the actual function ... Did you even watch the video? 😅
@GlenMacDonald
@GlenMacDonald 3 месяца назад
Change the numerator to ln(x) and try again. 🧐
@Patapom3
@Patapom3 3 месяца назад
Magnificent!
@andrewhone3346
@andrewhone3346 3 месяца назад
If you do the substitution x=2(1-cos t) then this becomes integral of the even function ln(2-2 cos t) from 0 to pi, so 1/2 of the same integral from -pi to pi. Now this is a special case of Jensen's Lemma, which says that integral of ln | a - exp(it) | is equal to ln max (1, |a| ), for an complex number a. Just set a=1 to recover the case at hand. (This result is used to define what is called the Mahler measure of a polynomial)
@hello_its_me.
@hello_its_me. 3 месяца назад
Help me out, you call it a 'box' but isn't it a square?
@annoyingbstard9407
@annoyingbstard9407 3 месяца назад
I did it in my head. The answer’s 7.
@lrlp2007
@lrlp2007 3 месяца назад
In my opinion, you have to pay attention to the fact that 0 and 4 are not in the domain of the integrate.
@Hiltok
@Hiltok 3 месяца назад
The bounds of integration are indeed 'improper' for this case, but are simply handled by taking them to be limits approached by x.
@lrlp2007
@lrlp2007 3 месяца назад
@@Hiltok Ok, that is true, but I am afraid that the chain of reasoning, as presented by Michel Penn, is no longer valid.
@Necrozene
@Necrozene 3 месяца назад
God help me if after doing a trig substitution like in that first integral my bounds of integration go outside the bounds or what sine can provide. There has to be a better way.
@MartinPerez-oz1nk
@MartinPerez-oz1nk 3 месяца назад
THANKS PROFESOR. !!!!, VERY INTERESTING !!!!
@forcelifeforce
@forcelifeforce 3 месяца назад
Stop yelling your post in all caps. Also, watch your spelling and grammar.
@RigoVids
@RigoVids 3 месяца назад
I feel like I might be tripping but he says sin(u-pi/2)=sin(u) which is just incorrect? How does this work? It's around 10:15 for reference.
@GlenMacDonald
@GlenMacDonald 3 месяца назад
You're not tripping, but he tripped you up by not explaining it properly. He did actually address that in the video, but his explanation was unclear, and his "identity" isn't actually true. But... he did mention that the sine function between 0 and π is symmetric about the line x=π/2. What he *didn't* spell out though, was that this means that the sine function takes on the exact same values from 0 to π/2 as it does from π/2 to π, which means that the value of the integral in question (which goes from π/2 to π) will be the same whether you use sin(u-π/2) or sin(u). That's the part he glossed over, and which is admittedly confusing.
@Ahmed-Youcef1959
@Ahmed-Youcef1959 3 месяца назад
20 minutes of viewing to end with a zero . 😀
@JonibekSharipov-pz6ez
@JonibekSharipov-pz6ez 3 месяца назад
thanks a lot from UZBEKISTAN
@Bjowolf2
@Bjowolf2 3 месяца назад
I might have known ;-)
@purplerpenguin
@purplerpenguin 3 месяца назад
What level of the Tripos did this question appear in?
@Czeckie
@Czeckie 3 месяца назад
does the integral from 0 to 1 of the same function have a nice value?
@gregwochlik9233
@gregwochlik9233 3 месяца назад
Mistake in the thumbnail.
@Ricardo_S
@Ricardo_S 3 месяца назад
From what it said in the thumbnail the answer is π First √(4x-x²)=√(4-x)*√(x) u=√(4-x) du=-[1]/[2√(4-x)]dx -2du=[1/[√(4-x)]dx u²=4-x u²-4=-x 4-u²=x √(4-u²)=√(x) Change of limits u(0)=2 u(4)=0 So {0}S{4}([dx]/[√(4x-x²)])= {2}S{0}([-2du]/[√(4-u²)]) We can take the 2 out from the integral, and change the limits of integrations with the negative sign 2*{0}S{2}([du]/[(4-u²)]) Now trig substitution u=2sin(θ) du=2cos(θ)dθ θ=arcsin([u]/[2]) θ(0)=arcsin(0)=0 θ(2)=arcsin(1)=[π]/[2] u²=4sin²(θ) 4-u²=4-4sin²(θ)=4(1-sin²(θ))=4cos²(θ) So 2*{0}S{[π]/[2]}([2cos(θ)dθ]/[√(4cos²(θ))])= 2*{0}S{[π]/[2]}([2cos(θ)dθ]/[|2cos(θ)|]) Because 2cos(θ) its positive on the interval [0,π÷2] |2cos(θ)|=2cos(θ) 2*{0}S{[π]/[2]}([2cos(θ)dθ]/[2cos(θ)])= 2*{0}S{[π]/[2]}(dθ)= 2*θ{[π]/[2]\0}= 2*([π]/[2]-0)=π
@AnakinSkywalker-zq6lm
@AnakinSkywalker-zq6lm 3 месяца назад
I just did a u sub to get it in a different form (for the thumbnail one)
@Ricardo_S
@Ricardo_S 3 месяца назад
From what it said in the thumbnail the answer is π First √(4x-x²)=√(4-x)*√(x) u=√(4-x) du=-[1]/[2√(4-x)]dx -2du=[1/[√(4-x)]dx u²=4-x u²-4=-x 4-u²=x √(4-u²)=√(x) Change of limits u(0)=2 u(4)=0 So {0}S{4}([dx]/[√(4x-x²)])= {2}S{0}([-2du]/[√(4-u²)]) We can take the 2 out from the integral, and change the limits of integrations with the negative sign 2*{0}S{2}([du]/[(4-u²)]) Now trig substitution u=2sin(θ) du=2cos(θ)dθ θ=arcsin([u]/[2]) θ(0)=arcsin(0)=0 θ(2)=arcsin(1)=[π]/[2] u²=4sin²(θ) 4-u²=4-4sin²(θ)=4(1-sin²(θ))=4cos²(θ) So 2*{0}S{[π]/[2]}([2cos(θ)dθ]/[√(4cos²(θ))])= 2*{0}S{[π]/[2]}([2cos(θ)dθ]/[|2cos(θ)|]) Because 2cos(θ) its positive on the interval [0,π÷2] |2cos(θ)|=2cos(θ) 2*{0}S{[π]/[2]}([2cos(θ)dθ]/[2cos(θ)])= 2*{0}S{[π]/[2]}(dθ)= 2*θ{[π]/[2]\0}= 2*([π]/[2]-0)=π
@AnakinSkywalker-zq6lm
@AnakinSkywalker-zq6lm 3 месяца назад
@@Ricardo_S my initial u was different I think. If I remember correctly I got it into difference of squares by saying: u=2+x Then du=dx And sqrt(x(4-x))= sqrt((2+u)(2-u)) =sqrt(4-u^2) And the rest was trig subs I think. You can do both subs at once but I didn’t want to type the whole trig function every time.
@user-hm2gb6pm6b
@user-hm2gb6pm6b 3 месяца назад
English is impressed with tamil ! Grandfathers and babies learn maths ?
@JonibekSharipov-pz6ez
@JonibekSharipov-pz6ez 3 месяца назад
2th problems is the key that is KING's Property
@DrR0BERT
@DrR0BERT 3 месяца назад
Aren't these integrals improper? Shouldn't that be part of the conversation? It drives me up a wall that being improper is just ignored. I have students that gloss over this fact so many times. In Michael's integrals here, it ultimately doesn't matter. But in general it does.
@markprange2430
@markprange2430 3 месяца назад
Rationalise denominators if necessary or convenient.
@GlenMacDonald
@GlenMacDonald 3 месяца назад
Good catch.
@erfanmohagheghian707
@erfanmohagheghian707 3 месяца назад
More than half the video was a waste! Just set x-2=2cos(theta) and go from there.
@NOOBgamer-dn9zl
@NOOBgamer-dn9zl 3 месяца назад
20 sec
@gerdweissenborn
@gerdweissenborn 2 месяца назад
sin⁡(u+π/2)= cos ⁡u
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