Really nice video. This was played by the old rules (compared to modern catch wrestling) where submissons did not played a big part (or mostly a part at all) in the game, but it was like a very-very technical freestyle wrestling match. The two youngsters play very-very well, thumb up for them!
@Groundhawggjimenez well said, sir. That's also why you see much longer matches between two equally skilled competitors (ref. Rickson Gracie vs Machado - what an awesome match... Sakuraba vs the Gracies matches... Wallid vs Gracies matches... so on)
Amazing stuff. Those guys were just as athletic back in the day. I can see where it all comes from. I suppose the point of this match was to avoid the pin, rather than going for submissions?
I would have loved to have seen the greats back then. Even using more of this style today I think would work. Imagine a no submission match between 2 technical wrestlers? However add the ropes with modern day finishers & high flying moves & you've got a nice balance.
anyone who has questions about CACC early matches can read the scans from Martin Burns, Frank Gotch, Hackenachmidt, etc. matches and how their "falls" aka submissions or pins victories ended.
At 2:15 there is a slick crotch hold counter by the under man going through the legs. At 2:57 a leg scissor breaks the half Nelson and at 3:04 the under man successfully spins out of a half nelson
addressing some strings in here real quick: CACC has ALWAYS had submissions.. matches were determined by the RULES agreed upon.. best of 3 falls.. no strangleholds.. so-on. since video want around in the "early" days, you don't see legit matches that way.. just training (like this one) or kayfabe fixed matches.
i am a BJJ 3 stripe purple belt been trainin for 5 yearz/ pro mma fighter, those kids looked like good grapplers, when u have 2 grapplers of equal skill n equal weight ,it is not an easy task 2 submit one another, no novice in my opinion!
@ThisSentenceIsFalse Yeah... I think, also, they were not experienced enough for the submissions in this match... probably novices... but I can tell you they move a HELL of a lot better than I do LOL
Different scoring from modern day Submission wrestling. No points for back control with hooks. Win by pin. afaik submissions only came about to guarantee a win against hometown judges.
I've watched many an old Catch match and have yet to see one real match end in submission. Submissions may have been a part of Catch but I've never seen any reliable proof of it. Every book this grappling nerd has studied and every tutorial film I've ever seen, although showing painful holds none of those holds were true submissions rather thy were pins that used pain compliance to insure successfully sticking the shoulders down.
Neither of your statements make any sense I've watched hundreds of old films of old wrestling matches and have NEVER seen even one submission win, if submission was an integral part of Catch as Catch Can(As some would lead us to believe.) then there's no logical explanation for my observations. Shooto has always claimed to be a hybrid style there's no debate amongst the well informed on that issue. Wrestling is a wonderful and practical aspect of fighting that has evolved to a very high level of skill sets, anyone who hasn't studied wrestling deeply is at a disadvantage against one who has, that being said some of the claims bouncing around the internet made by a few entrepreneurs regarding Catch are unfounded and even dishonest.
JudoMateo But I don't really understand your points, that Sakuraba uses a hybrid of fighting moves in his repartee when he fights in MMA? That old wrestling matches have different rule sets compared to MMA? As I understand it they went for pins rather than submissions so there was more of an emphasis on cranks. Josh Barnett and Sakuraba are considered CACC practitioners because they were taught by practitioners whose linage goes back to Billy Riely and the Snake Pit back in wigan. Also, provided I know my history, a great deal of the early Pancrase stars were versed in CACC.
Clearly a demonstration, neither fighter made any attempt to maintain position or go for a finish. And I'm sorry, but that bridging to rollover ain't working on me, that I know for sure. Oh, and was back control with hooks illegal, or what?
