Desert Orchid proving himself a legend once again. Kauto Star fans dream on he will never match Dessie as once again Dessie does what Kauto can never do win a top class handicap giving lumps of weight,
I remember this race. He was knackered by the last, but made Ireland's best staying chasers look ordinary. John Francome was totally spot on. He did an Arkle that day. He got in front and just burned everything off. You notice how many horses start hitting fences and falling on the second circuit. Dessie was just taking the michael at the last. What a horse he was. For versatility, he's probably been the best horse since the early seventies when Pendil used to be campaigned similarly.
Oh I'd forgotten that last fence! What a star. It's pointless to compare great horses in that way. Kauto, Desert Orchid and indeed Denman total different types of horses and all great!
Yes. His performance in beating 2 mile specialists in the Victor Chandler is enough to suggest that it was a better performance - he gave 22 pounds away that day. Beating your peers on level weights is one thing, but to beat them when carrying significantly more weight is quite another.
Kauto was a smart horse but he needed all his own way. Dessie's high tempo running with gears to quicken off his own strong pace would have had Kauto reaching for his jumps. Kauto was weak in a finish & weak at conceding weight. He won more grade ones due to fact he raced barely 3-5 times a season, not nine or ten & also that the top class handicaps in Dessies daym are now soft level weights contests. I don't even have Kauto in my top five since Dessie retired. Kauto massively over-rated!
My opinion, for what it's worth, Dessie looked uncomfortable over some of the fences because of the jockey. Dunwoody never did let the horse go as he wanted to, he wanted him to run 'Dunwoodys' way and that didn't suit the old boy. Wrong jockey!
Right, and too prone to use the whip. Sherwood understood Dessie, felt his feelings through the reins and knew he would always do his best. Dunwoody was whipping him when he was well clear near the end
Just watching this reminded me what a great horse Desert Orchid was. Desert orchids career seemed to take off after the sad demise of Dawn Run.As great as Desert Orchid was,Dawn Run would have given him very stiff opposition. They did actually clash once in the 1984 champion hurdle,and Dawn Run outclassed Desert Orchid !
Going right handed desert orchid was probably a 2 stone better horse. It was a miracle he won a gold cup because that course is the wrong way round for him. If he has met dawn Run in a right handed course it wouldnt have been a race.
One of the greatest things about Dessie was he ran in pretty much everything, hard as nails & sound as they never ran scared with him, handicaps over any trip giving lumps of weights to genuine top class horses, Cheltenham every year despite his loathing for left handed, Imagine what else he could've won if he hadn't been so biased to going right handed....
That's old racing unfortunately. Nowadays connections of top class horses are more interested in keeping horses sound and winning the most prize money rather than enterting their stars in as many top class races as they could possibly win. If Desert Orchid was around now he'd be treated the same - King George, Gold Cup, one other warm up race and that would be it for the season.
I always hate it when people try and compare racehorses...Kauto and Dessie and others are all legends, but you can't really say which is best unless they run in the same races at the same time with the same opposition and the same conditions. Which will never happen. So saying that one is better than the other, or that one could never do what the other did, is pointless.
Loved that horse .Had a bet on him in a novice chase when he fell .Never did again,thought I was a hoodoo.Heart beat just a little faster when he was in a race .From the beginning of his career till the end.To compare horses from different eras,you can"t do it .From Flying Bolt , Arkle to Kauto & the unfulllfilled,like Dawn Run.All great .Desert Orchid to me had something a little extra .Romance .Even in defeat he was running on.That"s why I love the jumps .Can"t wait for next year Sprintre Sacre V Champagne Fever .Now that"s what I call WOW . PS He would have won 5 in a row apart from a poxy ride by Colin Brown .
On level weights around a right handed track Dessie would DESTROY Kauto Star, simply because Dessie would intimidate the hell out of KS, he broke the hearts of both Panto Prince and Yahoo in races that suited them rather than Des. Also, KS was lightly raced - he raced in HALF the number of races that Dessie ran, and therefore not the hardened warrior that Dessie was; it's all very well to cherry pick your races but it does give the impression that KS ducked out of true tests of his ability.
Dessie as a 12YO, ran in the Victor Chandler (when it was a handicap). He carried 12stone giving 16-20lb to top class horses four, five & six years younger. He was beat just 6l (6lb) in fourth but horses that filled the 1-2-3 in the Champion Chase!! You believe far too much hype about Nichols latest horses....Kauto was not even better than Nicholls' See More Business at his best & Master Minded would have needed an A-Z to see which way Azertyuiop went!
@Jamie2462A not knocking Kauto he is the best of his generation but Dessie was hampered in that he could only truly perform away from Cheltenham. He would have won 5 King Georges in a row but for a crazy ride in the 1987 running when along with Beau Ranger he set a total suicidal pace that no horse could ever sustain. He would have also won a stack of Tingle Creeks / Victor Chandlers were they not run as a handicaps.
Absolutely dead right. Kauto was a big ponce. Denman (glorified handicapper) smashed Kauto 3-1 in four meets (having heart problems only time he lost). Don't get me wrong, Kauto far more classy than Denman who would never had won a KG but these fools who think Des would have been beat by KS live in a fantasy world! Nicholls had top beg the public to like his horse & even resorted to a snide "they'd like him if he were a grey" jibe.
Firmly put in his place is a little harsh. That gap was closing and it was Kautos first run of then year. Remember Monets Garden was also a 2.5 mile specialist. I said 4 king georges above but i can also add another to that :)
Both Dessie and Kauto bar Arkle simply the best there has been. Kauto had speed but out of his comfort zone he was very beatable Dessie could only go one way but had speed and loved to be challenged. Race between them would have been superb and either could win I would say but better at giving weight certainly Dessie.
Lets not be harsh on Kauto. As much as Dessie was a great...Well Kauto is simply... better. At the very least on par! Kauto did what Dessie never did...2 gold cups and 4 king Georges...in a row! But i still admire what Dessie did. A fabulous horse!
It seems that those who know best think Kauto wins. Like i said, Kauto has won the big races more times. Big races being the two main races on the racing calendar. Don't be blinkered troops. Kauto and Dessie off level weights would be close but i would favour KS.
@stevven69 Monets Graden was a Aintree specialist and it was over a shorter than ideal trip for Kauto, who was closing in at then end. I doubt Dessie would give weight a a 2mile specialist like Masterminded and a beating over 2 miles. Common sense troops.
@ALmyster947 - you wrote off Kauto before he did win it at 11yrs of age. You still think Dessie gives him a stone and a beating? 5 King Georges and a 3rd now, when arguable not at his best. How many records does Kauto hold on his own? Probably more than Dessie. How many Gold cups? More than Dessie, how many King georges? More than Dessie. They are the MAIN two races on the NH calendar.
Kauto Star was a good horse but very overrated in my eyes. The same for Best Mate. The competition in the Gold Cup has been poor for years. The fact Best Mate only just beat Sir Rembrandt to win his 3rd gold cup says it all. The best chaser I have seen since Dessie is Moscow Flyer. The 2 mile division was incredibly strong back then, Well Chief would have been a multiple champion had he not been injured/moscow not around. Moscow was different class.
Master Minded? He was a piss poor two miler, like Kauto in a weak era!! Badsworth Boy, mighty Pearlyman, Azertyuiop, Moscow Flyer & Dessie would have smashed him up!
I think you are deluded if you think Dessie beats Master mindeds 08 2 mile performance. Next you will be telling me he beats frankel over a mile giving him 2 stone and Black Caviar over 6 furlongs giving a stone. Funny that flat horses dont get the same handicap issues in terms of greatness. I would suggest its the only thing Dessie fans are hanging onto to try and blast out Kauto.
No horse has been as handicapped since Dessie. He was extremely versatile as well as extremely brave. Very tough. Kauto Star would have wilited under his pressure.
I just cant see anything beating a peak Kauto Star around Kempton over 3 miles. In my opinion Dessie will always have the backing of fans due to him being Grey and because he won a gold cup in what you could say was against all odds, due to ther ground etc. Kautos two gold cup wins have been a sprint finish. However, his King George wins and in particular 2009, were some of the best ever. He destroyed a field who were top notch and did it in style. I like both horses but think Kauto is classy
he carried over 10stone in most of his races in Australia. I believe that his body is in a museum in Australia where I don't know. horses like him are few and far between. Not sure but think he stood around 17hands, with big massive shoulder. Unfortunately it's not true the americans didn't kill the horse, it was his trainer. His trainer used to give him a secret ingredient every day, which eventually built up in phar laps stomach and killed him. Horses might be big powerful creatures but their system is a very fragile one.
With all due respect you can't really compare Desert Orchid and Kauto Star on the berometers you are trying to measure them on. Kauto Star, like almost every top class modern horse, never competed in handicaps. I could be petty and critical by saying Dessie couldn't win races left handed, but that's just as unfair.
