You're a one brave person riding that bike on those trail, lol. This video got me thinking what would be the mountain bike look like 20 years from now.
Haha thanks Phil! It was so much fun, very scary to try and push my limits though haha. Yeah I think 20 years more will just keep seeing better and better refinements. It was trippy to see how all the little things added up to a different experience on trail, narrow wide chainring, clutch derailleur, cooling technology on the brakes, dropper seatpost, air suspension, cartridge damping, tubeless tires, tire inserts, wider rims, wider bars, 12 speed, shorter fork offset, carbon frame. Its so many little things when you think about it and im sure we will keep seeing more and more stuff like that moving forward! If anyone has any ideas on what the future holds throw them down below!
@@AprilRideMTB excellent comparison - although I wonder if it might be worth making a few changes to the older bike and re-running that trail to see if more modern component spec makes much difference or not? Obviously you can't change the wheelbase or wheel size - which are likely to be the two main things which limit the outright performance - but I think you could easily fit wider bars and bigger brakes, a modern [clutch mech/narrow wide] transmission and perhaps a dropper post too (and tubeless wheels together with more modern tyres) - and see if those elements make any appreciable difference or not? for info. I upgraded my 2001 San Andres in a similar way last year (including a 2016 Boxxer fork), and certainly I feel far more confident on my 'retro' DH bike now than before - although whether that actually translates into an appreciable difference in the overall speed over a run like that would remain to be seen?
I think that in 20 MORE years the improvements will be more nuance and much less improvement on decreasing the overall time. Kind of like iPhone, they can't get THAT much better is this point right? lol
20 year old bikes in need of service VS modern bike would be more accurate. Also rider confidence in his machine is a much bigger factor than age. You should do a test with a modern bike that you've never ridden to get a more accurate comparison. Also make sure the vintage ride is ready to compete.
@@devfishe 100% agree! Back in the day, people like Tyler Klassen, Mike Kinrade, Darren Berrecloth, or Cameron McCaul come to mind, just to name a few. Those guys did insane stunts with their "old" bikes!
100% I not too long ago got a steel frame 1998 GT Timberline All terra with rockshox indy s forks (48mm travel) took a week of constant riding to get used to but now I've got confidence in both the bike and myself and the fact I've full serviced and made sure it's spot on makes me feel good about riding it, I actually ride it more than my 2018 100mm travel xc hardtail, and I take the GT to same natural trails that alot of locals take 140mm+ travel full sus bikes to and I do the loops etc in similar times or just a hair longer
Change the settings of the rear shock, put it on the last bolt eyelet so you have more travel and twist the preload knobs on the fork. Ride quality will change a lot.
Amazing and funny to watch Kyle with the Banshee with his narration while bombing down on the back trail. It's also amazing how fast new bikes has evolved over 20 years. The Banshee and Iron Horse Sunday were legends of it's time. Great video Kyle & April!
Evolution over the past 20 years has actually been relatively slow compared to the preceding 20 years. Comparing a 1983 bike with the Banshee would be a much greater contrast
@@27lacuna27 was thinking the exact same thing. Once we got to moto style forks, coil over rear shocks (Noleen and Fox) and disc brakes (properly set up) the evolution has been much slower in 20 years vs just 10 years prior to that era.
I wonder how much better it would be with updated suspension, brakes, and bars. I have an older mtb that I feel just needs some love in this direction. The frame and geos have obviously changed for the better as well (especially on DH bikes). But, it's hard to say goodbye to a perfectly good and solidly built bike that I love.
Great video! Actually would love to see the comparison between these two bikes after fitting a longer handle bar and better brake on the old bike. I am really curious to see how much of the improvement is made by the new geometry and how much is just better brakes & longer bar
@@AprilRideMTB ok. Take that Intense (FSR copy) and build it with properly tuned Monster Ts, Brakes that actually work from that era and using discs with larger rotors, etc. chain tensioner (less ghost shifting), etc…basically let’s set it up like you are at the DH world championships and actually give a crap about it being in top top shape and ready to race the worlds. Then let’s compare.
The banshee timed run was hilarious! It reminded me of the scene from Tangled when Rapunzel first leaves the tower. "Whoo! This is a good run! "OMG I almost died" "Awesome line!" "AHH I almost went over the bars" "This is so fun" "This is terrifying"
Soooo cool this sort of comparison. Please do more. I remember when I was a teenager seeing pro guys dressed up in heavy protection and riding super gnarly trails and features in these monstruous bikes, for me they looked like futuristic gladiators and I aspired to become one of them, and now I´ve becomed one of them. I guess that dreams do become true, so never give up people, follow your dreams.
A 2003 scream was my first dh bike. I rode it for about 4 summers with 720mm bars, fox 40 and totem forks, and more modern avid brakes from 2014-2018 when i treated myself to a brand new Banshee Darkside. I just have to say putting decent parts on that old frame made it absolutely amazing. Definitely recommend trying it
Hey everyone! Hope you are having a good day and enjoyed the video! This was one we have been wanting to do for a while and honestly it was such a blast. Just for anyone wondering the brakes on the banshee did have new pads but old oil, and the fork had the stock springs but I would love to track down a stiffer spring and test it out again. Even though the technology has changed so much, its pretty amazing how well these bikes have aged and i would say the fun factor was just as high, even if the speed may not have been haha. Biking is such a blast and honestly this video made me feel like a kid again, thanks so much for watching! Kyle
I’ll be on my 15 year old Cannondale for a while longer, considering the price of new bikes these days! Gotta buy my son and daughter cars first. I ride at Bogus and Eagle and it’s a ton of fun, which is all I care about. Loved the vid and I’m glad to see how much better bikes have gotten but my key takeaway was that you actually seemed to be having more fun in the Banshee. Once you got on the WFO, it seems like it got serious!
The trick with the open-bath Marzocchi forks is oil height and oil weight. I'd usually switch it to 10wt to gain some compression support (and then open the rebound adjusters to compensate for the heavier oil). Most important is volume or 'height' of oil. With the top caps off, compress the fork fully and measure the distance from the top of the oil to the top of the stanchion. I'd start at around 100mm, and then add oil from there until its hard to compress the last inch/1.5". To test your ramp you can reassemble the fork with no springs and cycle it through the travel. If its still easy to bottom just keep adding 10cc of oil at a time (think volume spacers but fluid). If you can't bottom it fully (with a firm push) then you have too much oil and will blow the seals. It can take some trial and error, but once you find the sweet spot it should rarely have that hard metal clank you experienced.
@@adamschaeffer3614 that is a bad idea on gen 1 monsters. Gen 2 can handle 10w fine but gen 1s can’t, you need stiffer springs before messing with the oil weight on gen 1 monsters and shivers.. changing oil will just give a slower rebound and nothing else. Please don’t spread false info!
Those Hayes brakes are actually pretty bad ass, even today. You just need to service them. I still run them on a hard tail that I use to commute and to goof around on.
I still ride a 2001 Magura Gustav M Brake in the front in the Alps for trails and enduro use 3 times a week :). Heavy, but very durable and an awesome system. In around 2000 the bikeark trails were much different to the ones today. Less wide, more rocky, less fast, so it fitted a lot more to these bikes with a way too short geometry.
This was cool to watch for me because I just resurrected my 15+ year old diamondback only to realize I needed a new bike. I am a beginner level rider and have found a ton of useful info in your video and can't wait to start using my newfound knowledge to improve my skills. thanks for all the great content.
Brilliant video, I have a 98 Specialized FSR comp and love the bike! New bikes are a touch quicker but I still love the bike! Regarding the times, I do think the ppe would also play a part in this too as it wasn't as restrictive on your second run, therefore I reckon it could have helped with a second or two. Just my personal opinion on that. Definitely subbing to you and would love to see some different bikes compared to modern, maybe do a showdown of the best retro bikes.
I did a somewhat similar comparison to this in real-time with a 30 year gap in the middle. Rode a late 80’s fixed-fork Specialized Rockhopper Comp hardtail until I was 14 yrs old. Then ignored mountain-biking completely for 30 years. Two years ago I rode a full-sus bike for the first time. Completely blew my mind. Fell in love with mountain-biking all over again. Great video. Shows the limits of old technology but a truly talented rider can still slay it on a retro horse!
Fun stuff. Started riding mtn bikes in the 80s. A lot of it was just about survival. Sooo much more fun now many bikes later. At 63, a lot my age have gone e-assist but I can't bring myself to ditch my 2016 Intense Tracer. It was "new" to me about a year ago and amazes me how each step in technology my riding has improved and speed increases. Fun vid. Great to see you riding and having fun.
59 here. Love my aluminum 2012 Intense Tracer 2, and 2016 Intense Carbon Spider. No interest in the e-bikes either. Part of the fun for me is the techy climbs. It does crack me up to see the modern 29s outclimb me when ridden by a really fit rider, and how they iron out the worst the trails have to offer, as seen in this video.
Wow, that was insane. It's cool to see how far bikes have come. I'm glad to know modern bikes take noobs like me and allow us to tackle trails we wouldn't have been able to years ago. Phenomenal riding my dude.
Great vid. It would be interesting to see a comparison between a 20 year old top bike back in the day versus a budget bike such as a Polygon T8 which is a trail bike with less travel. This would confirm how much the current bike technology has moved on and improved.👍
i still have a mid-to-late 90s hardtail (and rigid). 570mm chrome handlebars, full shimano exage with biopace tech, and rim braked stx. brought it on a blue trail and almost didn't survive. indeed, hanging-on-for-dear-life scary but super duper fun!
This was fun Kyle!!! Makes me miss my 2008 Transition Dirt Bag with the Totem fork....I'd love to ride it and my Ripmo V2 to compare. LOL Thanks for this, and YES, more retro!
I just wanted to thank both of you, my girlfriend and I watch your videos as she's just getting in to MTB. You've helped both of us improve our riding skills and made it fun along the way, appreciate both of you! Ride safe!
Great video, it's amazing how different the two rides went. I had a 2006 Scott Ransom and I remember thinking how fast it was compared to my old Stumpy. I'm not 100% sure I'd be able to take off 25 seconds on a trail with it against my current bike though. Wish I still had it, to try.
I really liked the pre-ride, sections being filmed by April, then the timed runs right after gopro style! It really helped mitigate the gopro effect and let me appreciate that trail a lot more! Great video! Would be a fun series!
This was super interesting. To a layman like myself, the bikes don't look that different. But when you ride them and push them to their limits it's obvious how different they are. Your skills on a bike are really cool to see.
My brother had a banshee scream. That bike was so fun. Could smash anything. Got photos on pinkbike of it. Can’t be to far off from your Canfield bros DH days.
such a fun bike! Thats awesome, yeah the canfield days were 2010 and i had wider bars, tubeless tires and an air fork so i was definitely cheating compared to this 03 haha.
Super cool video. Way to rip Kyle. Saw an interesting article about this yesterday, actually - some folks are saying the big innovations are done and now we're going to enter a time of incremental changes - i.e., good time to buy a bike without feeling like you're missing out in two years. Please more of these!
This is more of a comparison between a badly setup 20 year old bike and a modern dialed one. Your suspension is badly setup, you seemingly are blowing through the travel. I ride both a Banshee & several modern enduros (Ripmo/Slash/Spartan), and despite the weight and agility loss of the Scream, it feels as if you're riding on a sofa at bike parks rougher than the one you're at.
Y'all are the best. Love that you don't swear and are so positive. Good to see April progress as she's my Mtb role model. I had back surgery in Feb 21 and back riding Mtbs in Feb 23 after a severe crash 30 years ago. Thank you Kyle for being such a competitive person, but also gentle and humble. Someone taught you well. Also, check out Ski Biking... It's wild...
Loved this video!!! Great topic and well produced. Please do more. My ride is a 2004 DH bike with a few modernized upgrades and I love it. This video has me curious to try a modern bike now.
Awesome! What a fun video. I love that you went full retro with the outfit too - jeans - really?! Would love to learn more about the differences in geometry over the years in a future video.
I always lusted after one of those Banshees after seeing Bender. I ended up getting a 2005 Kona stinky. But I still ride an oldschool rig purely of nostalgia reasons. Now I'm on Marin Quake 7.2. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I hope this series will go on. PS subbed.
I fee like I broke bones watching this video, nice runs!I can't fathom doing this type of riding anymore. Gone are the days of weekend downhill blasts down the mountains trails of Colorado. I converted one of my MTB to electric for giggles, it's but 20lbs heavier now. I typically do some flowy trails on my fat bike which is loads of fun.
I had a chianti red 2004 Banshee Chaparral which was basically a mini Scream with 6" travel. Ran a manitou sherman slider flick plus single crown and manitou 5 way swinger coil shock. So fun
My first MTB was a fully rigid Trek, I did all kinds of crazy stuff on it and had the time of my life! My first full suss was a Pro Flex with elastomer bushings for shocks. I would have been stoked to have that Banshee!! My current MTB is a Santa Cruz 5010 carbon and it just blows all past bikes away, it's like cheating! Loved this vid, thanks for sharing!
Upgrades needed. I have that same Banshee scream with Shimano ZEE breaks and fox 40's that I use as a downhill/cross country/hill climber. I have added a 3kw mid drive and a 60v battery stuffed into the frame and I love it .
Great video guys! I stepped up from a 2003 Specialized Hardrock to a 2021 Trek Fuel EX 8. It was hard to even describe the difference between the two it was so huge. It was great to see the side by side comparison. So much fun!
I have an 02 Kona Stinky. You can definitely tell its age! This year I put a Bafang 750 watt motor on it and I gotta say it was 100% worth it. It's still a fairly capable machine on the downhill, and now that it's converted it's super easy to climb with. It had Hayes Nine brakes which were either off or on, they had no modulation. I switched them out for Clarks 180mm up front and 160mm rear and they have been incredible. Aside from those changes, it just has a dropper post and wider bars now. Good stuff.
Truly badass. I’m sketchy enough that Id like some of those old pads. It was great to see lack of ego and a healthy sense of fear. I was also glad to see someone else pushed it uphill sometimes. You guys rock.
Absolutely a great video guys - love these comparison challenges. You are a complete hero Kyle, how you stayed on that beast through the rocky sections, I'll never know and at that weight, it didn't like being peddled up hill much. You looked so much more fluid and nimble on the new bike, poetry in motion. The old footage of guys riding them off virtually cliffs was crazy (don't you try that). Thanks again, look forward to your next retro visit. Keep up the good work.
I love a retro bike and regularly ride early 90s stuff. But it is so true how far bikes have come since then. Gotta love the sport and it’s constant evolution but it is fun sometimes to reset on an old bike to make you faster (as you were) kinda like reverse moto training 😂😂
I've got a 28 lb Stumpjumper Sport from 1983, rigid, I have newer 2.2 Ground Contorl tires on it, (1.50 Specialized tires were on it when I got it from a scrapper for $50) those help a lot, other then that is mostly original, that bike is a blast, sure I go faster on my 22lb, 2021 Epic EVO, 5+ minutes faster on a 4 mile fairly hard trail, I started riding in the early 1980's, I wish I could have had a bike that shifted as good as the Stumpy back then. Its still fun to ride it a few times a year.
Great video! Amazing to watch you ride Kyle! Just stunned at how fast you reacted and changed your line through the rocks. Also very glad to see you be able to exert yourself a lot more than even just recently. God Bless you two!
Very cool! I would love to see more comparisons of old and new tech. Like you said it makes a person appreciate more what we have available to us today. I know GMBN has done a little of this even with older/beater bikes. I love the breakdown of the differences.
Great video and really great to see that you are able to hit the trails hard again! The comparisons btwn the 20+ year old bike and today's bike was awesome. Though most replacement parts for the old bike are no longer available, it would have been interesting how that old bike, properly tuned and conditioned, would have done. Also, it is possible can you post a side-by-side comparison of the major specifications (e.g., wheels: 26 vs 29, front fork travel x mm vs y mm, rotor diameter x vs. y, etc.)
Keep in mind for younger folks that was a higher end bike back in the day! Us poor 20 something's might have been running something like specialized P2 dirt jumpers for both downhill, xc, and everything else. I love my Enduro now😃
"Film it in case something happens" haha 😂 Famous last words. Great work on the camera April. The production quality is top notch from you guys. I always enjoy your videos. This was such a fun throwback!
Love the concept, and great video. If you are going to do more of these PLEASE get the older bike a proper tune up first. Things like the forks bottoming, gears skipping and the crap brake power could have easily been fixed with a trip to the shop (well maybe not the brakes :) ). You wouldn't normally ride your WFO with 20 PSI less in the fork, air in the brakes and poorly set gears. Again great video and the contrast was very clear but having the older bike serviced will mean you can talk about the actual design changes and confidence between the bikes instead of the poor setup, and its safer too.
My thoughts exactly. Forks haven't changed that much compared to everything else. It scared me knowing he rode that w/o enough air up front. I did however laugh at the bars, I used to ride the skinny setup too.
LOVE this. lol. The Banshee reminds me of my 1st FS bike, '05 or '06 Gary Fisher Fat Possum. The components and geometry of that compared to the Devinci Troy I ride now are about the same night/day difference as your rides in this film. Only the Fat Possum was my Main bike for a couple years. I would very much like to see some of your other retro rides. I hope you have one of the old Y-frame GT or Specialized bikes, that would be EPIC to see.
Fun video. That old bike looks terrifying but interesting to ride. Crazy how far bikes have come! Even now, cheap bike vs expensive bike, the thing I notice most is the brakes. Not being able to stop is terrifying! And bad pedals also 😱! And old geo 😕
Bugger that I will stay on my trek slash you smash and float through most of that stuff, had a Kona stinky there is just no comparison between that and my trek slash 29er light and day !! Cool video as always guys nice work!!👍😊
