The pre-facelift 2008 Lexus IS F dominated my previous V8 sports sedan head-to-head against the Chevrolet SS. But how will it fare against the even more powerful 2014 Mercedes C63 AMG? / zygrene
@@naisbest3020 i can mention at least 4 E9X’s from the region I live that have similar or more mileage and their car has been just as reliable. They are reliable cars, its not their fault only the bad stories leak out and get spewed by monkeys behind keyboards.
I just traded in my 2008 ISF with 134k and it was hard to let go, best car I’ve ever had the privilege to own. But I will admit, C63 sound is just absolutely amazing
No other compact sedan gives the sheer excitement of driving to a driver like the W204 C63 when it came out back in 2008. It’s still a killer amongst today’s standards, especially strapped with a blower.
Late model year (after 2011) W204 C63 (like this one) fixed the cylinder head bolts issue so it should be less worrisome to own. This engine revs faster than GM small block. I would love to own one if manual was an option back then.
Unfortunately the head bolts is just one issue the engine has. You still have to be concerned about camshaft and lifter wear, fuel injector failure, camshaft adjuster wear and cracks in the intake manifold. With the ISF you just need to have the 'valley plate' reseal done and you're set.
@@Atoxiccell yes Josh as far as I am aware. They recitified the head bolt issue after a certain production number however all the other issues are still prevalent on the M156.
@@gavinr9107 can confirm had all these issues on my 2010 c63 except cracked intake thank god. Replaced headbolts and lifters cam phasers and fuel injectors etc etc
@@Zygrene Great review, it pretty accurately showed how I felt about my 2008 ISF. The 2011+ was revised to be softer via front springs, stiffer via rear springs, with bigger sway bars front and rear, with different toe links in the rear for revised suspension geometry. In 12, 13, 14 model years they revised it every year as well. It’s supposed to be more comfortable, and handle better. My 08 ISF handled great but was pretty rough. Also, in the ISF world, we don’t refer to any model as a facelift model. The only cosmetic exterior differences were the 3 wheel styles, and headlights.The 08-09 got 10 spoke samurai blade wheels, 10-11 got trident spoke wheels, and 12-14 got 14 spoke and were wider wheels front and rear. 2010+ got LSD and 2011+ got a bigger center gauge tach and LED strip in the headlights.
Great Video, enjoyed it. I also had 09 ISF with LSD and enjoyed the car a lot love the sound. always put a smile on your face sadly sold it wish it had 5 seats and after owning a M135i I bought a 2013 C63 with performance pack (have SLS bits on the engine, some big brakes & carbonfibre lip) love it sounds awesome. wish I can keep both :)
I currently got a 2012 is350 f-sport that I got two years ago. During all this time I been thankful for driving such an ultra reliable machine. But I feel its time to upgrade. For months I been torn between a 2012-2014 ISF or a 2020 bmw m340i. The coin is still up in the air as of now
Would have been better to compare either non face lifted together instead of comparing better revised version over an older one. Facelift ISF have many better differences than the earlier model.
You really need to drive a stock 2012-14 stock ISF with all the updates with a proper set of fresh PS4S tires. Tough to review performance cars with oddball budget tires.
@@Beezy_Builds People really need to understand there's a whole world of tires beyond pilot sports (great dual purpose tire but not even close to a primary lapping option). Their minds will be blown if they ever get into the 200tw or slick territory. Or if they ever compare a PS4S versus a more appropriate tire on track.
ISF. Maintenance alone on the C63, will quickly add up and will probably getting annoying after a while… vs the ISF can easily drive the car and do most of the DIY jobs at home.
@@Darylrb1983 not that long, couple months now. Had to sort out some small maintenance items and it’s been rock solid. If you check out the forums, most people don’t really have issues except maybe the pre-facelift ones with the headbolt issue. Biggest cost is gas lol
@@Darylrb1983 also, parts can be expensive but I don’t think it’s too ridiculous. There are little things that are overpriced like the little plastic engine cover (I cracked mine) which costs $100. But most of the general stuff is not terrible.
There were only like 700 units imported to the US for the 2012-2014 model years…so are really hard to find. Half of all ISFs imported into the US are 2008s
@@constantinrobles3007 And there are way less than 700 when you consider many were also exported out of the USA, and many were totaled/scrapped. A clean title is even more rare than a rebuilt one too. Totally guessing but there’s probably less than 600 left. And less than 500 with clean titles.
In Germany cars are taxed on the size of the engine which is counted in 100cc increments. However, this figure is always rounded up. For example, a 6208cc engine would be rounded up to 6300cc for tax calculation. I think this might be at least one reason why it is marketed as a C63 with a 6.3L.
This seems to be common from Europe. The 6.0L V12 known from Aston Martin is really 5.9L. The modern 6.3L name in Mercedes also originally harkens back to the actual 6.3L car used in the 1960s.
Car market sounds pretty damn good over in CA. The only ones within 200 miles of me both have around 110k on them listed at 31 and 33k, and Carvana has two around 50k miles listed around 45k.
@@larrylampshade1734 From my research, sub 100k mile pre facelift examples of both C63 and ISF can be found for 20-35k. With the Lexus in the upper part of that range. Didn't limit my search to California though.
Since both of these cars are probably driven 90% of the time on the street and not the track I would definitely choose the ISF for it's greater reliability. Oh, I have to admit to owning a 2011 ISF 500. Playing "Ricky Racer" on the streets is not as much fun as really racing on a track . . . like I did for years. Guys, if you want a blast, join SCCA or some other race organization and experience the real thing. You will end up going slower and driving more sanely on the street, but you will be going much faster on the track. To me, the thrill wasn't so much the high speed but the close-in dicing that was the real fun. Try auto crossing for 2 years and then track racing. Then put Mr. Ricky Racer in the closet and enjoy life.
I'd take the ISF too for the reliability and driving dynamics. Do you think that the extra $10-15k difference is worth it for the facelift model, especially for the LSD? 🤔
Owner of the ISF in this video. I think it comes down to whether or not you plan on modding it. The aftermarket has LSDs and suspension mods that are especially beneficial if you want to track the car, which is what I plan on doing.
I'm an owner of a 2012 ISF. For me it was important to get the LSD and updated center tach for the LED shift lights. I track mine and it performs amazing when I push it on the limits. It's still holding value and rare to find 2012+ for sale.
@@Downloadfreak thanks for the reply! It looks like a fun car at the track, especially with the mods I'm sure you'll do. I had seen an isf at Buttonwillow back in Nov and was jealously watching 😁
@@limitbreaker0000 Awesome! I appreciate the input. It's definitely rare to find a car that continues to be reliable and holds it's value after track days!
Absolutely not worth it. Like anything else, get the newest one you can, but like others have said, you can simply install an LSD if you need one. Also the gauges and interior trim, namely all of the plastics, are all better looking in the earlier models. The center tach setup is cool in and of itself, but they simply used a filler panel for the rest of the cluster. By in large the center tach and all of the black trim plastics in the newer ones make them actually feel more outdated imo than the full cluster and light silver trim from the OG’s. My advice is to buy whatever ISF you can get your hands on. You’ll never regret any one you get, but you may end up regretting spending more and not getting much for it. If it happens to be an 08/09, the only thing you’ll end up feeling that you actually need is the Bluetooth module to stream your music, which is available on Amazon for a couple hundred bucks. More people install an LSD to say they have it than because they need it.
If I were inexperienced at working on my own cars I'd probably take the ISF, but personally I would take the C63, it seems way more engaging to drive even if it's less precise on the backroads
@@CarsMeetsBikes if I have to pay euro prices to fix my car, it better be special. I don’t think BMW is special enough to warrant the cost. Just my 3 cents,
Well done, I really love the look of that Generation of the C63. But considering everything else the ISF wood be my choice as well. I just replaced my 8th Gen civic si with a body kitted IS250 MT. The car is fun it it needs a few mods before it will be perfect. Who knows may be down the road I might upgrade to the ISF but for now there are other priorities higher on the list lol.
check vir lighting laps isf is faster than both c63 and v8 m3.......the isf locks the tq/c in 2nd up in f mode..its direct gear to gear at that point...only car that did that in 2008..truly shifts at 0.1 mil.....+++
Man really feel that Toyota/Lexus really numbs the performance engines for the sake of reliability. You can even argue that the greatest engine Toyota/Lexus/Yamaha 1LR-GUE ever built out of the Lexus LFA is under power. Just me thoughts.
realistically they the C63 is prob better right up to the point you need to dump tons of money to keep it on the road and together. I have had friends that had every generation of c63 amg and they all eventually start to smoke, have engine issues.
I hear that the c63 is pretty reliable and that you can do alot of the repairs/maintenance at home, same with the Lexus. I guess it also comes down to the cost of parts and overall price. Damn its tough to choose, I'd have to drive both lol. Would you be comfortable buying a higher mileage ISF or C63 would be my question (I see a lot of higher mileage for sale). Prefacelift amg I'm automatically thinking of the expensive of headbolts Hmmmm
I see a LOT more high mileage (100k+) early model year ISF's for sale in the 25-35k range vs 20-25k for an equivalent C63. That's gotta count for something.
I just traded my 2008 with 134k and it often met with its redline. The car drove fantastic the whole time I owned it, and the next owner will have a great time too guaranteed, they are now selling it for $27,900
@@alexlopez5800 they are fairly reliable until you continue to put off replacing parts because they’re expensive, then everything goes at once and then it’s just too much to handle. Lexus is much better at being a daily
Doesn't really seem like a fair comparison at all. A heavily modded car on extreme tires vs a one on relatively shitty stock size tires. I own a 2011 c63. All seasons feel like absolute turd shit compared to oversized extreme tires. To be fair the suspension alignment on the Lexus cars is way more practical for sporty handling. A reasonable caster angle with a slightly better front geometry gives it better feel. The Mercedes was meant for highway cruising with an insane 11+ degree caster angle and small tires to cut through drag a bit better. At speeds over 120 on the freeway. The c63 is unquestionably the most composed setup out of the competition. It's an absolute disservice to have those trash tires on that car.
Stock for stock the C63 is the better car full out. Once he started telling me that he changed the suspension of the ISF I completely tuned out. Having driven both I can tell you that the C63 is better to own ( once the headbolts issue is resolved) and better to live with outside of the snowy areas in comparison to the ISF which did not have as much of a playful attitude. ISF sales were not good because the car was too playful to be considered a Lexus, and not playful enough to be considered a Serio alternative to the German rivals. The people buying them now, are grabbing them used and modding them to get the feel that the car should of been built with from the factory.
@@unknownbluebird7026 right lol. It's apples and oranges after that. Tuned vs stock. I've had my C since 2014 and never came across an engine failure of any kind, but I think the dealer fixed the engine before I purchased it because there was an recall notice in the records. Regardless. The 6.2 V8 is a fucking hammer untouched and the handling is as good as I want with just a tire upgrade.
I find the Mercedes to be much more fun to drive in the mountains. It looks better and certainly sounds better. That wasn't an apple to apple comparison, the ISF had suspension modifications done to it with wider tires while the AMG was stock.
2014 c63 vs 2008 isf ?????...one car has 6 years of refinement....08 c63 was horrible .not a fair comparison but the isf is just that much Better even a 2008.... Buy the way in my opinion isf V8 sounds better too..but thats why there is always different taste....to me the isf has a more cleaner exotic V8 sounds ..but to each it's own...
@@FATmenDRIVEtrucks they coming man. Filmed so many vids just havent had as much time to edit since my real estate business has been picking up. I'm making time now cuz YT and cars are my #1 passion
The c63 all day lol. Used to have a P31, with lsd. 507 rims. Etc. one of the most enjoyable driving experiences. You become an artist with the rear wheels. This is with experience driving an e90m3 6spd. The P31 was just more fun
AMG sounds 1000 times better than Lexus. Lexus engine noting comparing to AMG. AMG engine is more like motorsports engine. Lexus is like they put engine from tundra in to small call. Hard to pic Lexus over AMG.
The AMG engine had tons of problems with catastrophic failures do to poor head bolt design. It also had camshafts that were made of softer metal than the lifter buckets, and it grinded the cams down, at 1,000$ each. This was from 07-11 and fixed after then. The C63 was also “a small car with too large of an engine” because it was just a C class with a huge engine put in. Like the Lexus is an IS series with a huge engine put in it. The ISF engine had little in common with a tundra engine. There’s probably more parts that are different than in common.
That's not true at all. The ISF engine sounds extremely motorsport. It's just the exhaust is refined from the factory. Look up videos with aftermarket exhaust and you hear what they sound like. Amg just put a loud exhaust on the c63...
@@augustortiz Good thing I will never own one because 1 more M3 for people with no idea what they're getting into. You can keep your bust M3. Lmao......🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
