2020, 617bhp BMW M5 Competition review; better than the 600bhp Jaguar Project 8? 

Because some reviewers are too scared of saying something critical that may get them blocked from future reviews.

I think Sam from seen through glass is pretty honest

He's not going to be nice about a car that goes up against the Jaguar when he draws a salary from JLR, is he? Jaguar couldn't even fathom out how to make the Project 8 in RHD LOL

Utterly agree Harry - the car feels so big, unwieldy and lifeless - no wondered I was offered £25k off one - jelly mould dreary too🧐

@@chadderton what are you talking about? He basically said the Jaguar ipace was a nice vehicle but the charging network is so rubbish that you couldn't ever buy one. That's hardly endorsing jaguars product strategy.

The depreciation is my favourite feature of modern bmws

Let's be honest. If you can't afford to have a 10 year old BMW or Jaguar sit in your garage undriven, do you even deserve one? 😂

@@TheBasher-_- Peugeot 206 left the chat.

Why the cars depreciate that much in UK tho?I'm not british.why British people buy a brand new car while a very low mileage car is unbelievably cheap?(ive checked price with envy)

Pmsl but sadly correct!

So it's not just me who thinks this..

A lot of people think like that.. unfortunatly that doesn't change anything because it seems like a higher horsepower number and quicker 0-60 than the competitors is much more important than driving pleasure and a fun car. Ofcorse the new M5 is the better car on paper, but i'd rather take an e39 or e34.

Harry's garage nope I agree. I can’t help but see a BMW, no matter the performance and spec, as a sales rep car. Albeit an M5 is a sales rep who’s done rather well. They lack soul. The car that is. I can’t speak for all sales reps.

Stefan Stoppacher it’s interesting as we approach leaving the EU the behaviour of the EU car manufacturers and in particular the German ones - some of the dealers are already quietly suggesting supply will be a huge problems aswell as large price hikes so get your order in now. Frankly they’re also deeply deeply concerned about the brits turning their backs on EU manufactured cars unto the manufacturers drop their pricing to at least pre brexit levels and sort out deliveries

we live in the carwow generation, its all about numbers

Allot of my friends in germany had bmws, i thought the ride was especially bad. Felt crashy. In germany the raods are flat and smooth and it felt tough there (although very capable) but im not sure how they would be here with all the bumps

Yes please.

I'm a former M5 owner (had two from new) but switched to Alpina over 10 years ago and never looked back.

Aren’t they underpowered compared to the m models ?

@@Stuttgart1887 Slightly less Focus on Race/Power, and more Focus on a Luxury Driving Experience ! But a Alpina is not underpowered ! They fiddle with the Engine also.

I just sold mine today. :(

@@saobx3956 That's very sad!

Moral of the story...do the lottery

Thats is your brain taking over from your heart.

Good thing you wrote that so I didn't have to :D . I've driven a new M5, non comp tho for a few hours, sctatched the surface of the thing anyway and yes, it was very fast, very capable but also a blunt instument, no feel, no drama and I can't be the only one that thinks that a £100000+ car should have leather everywhere, as in the whole doorcards, b-pillars, lower dash etc like an old e38 750 has, the F90 felt cheap inside compared to my own E39 M5 that I drove to the test. The new car had a little noisier cabin aswell. But the drive train...oh my god. The S62 is a glorious thing but the new engine/Gb combo was just bloody fantastic if somewhat muted. I left the test drive not wanting one, not that I can afford one either but you get the idea.

I have heard others refer to the F series M5's as "The fastest 7 Series ever built" ... (I have an E60 5 series, the newer 3's are bigger...so the bloat is company wide, not just one or two)

Still the king not sure how many kids bedroom walls will have the Project 8 these days the Countach was on any 70's kid who loved cars wall mine was plastered with it and the BB512.

@@zpunter4373 It still is for me, but i was referring to the performance of modern cars. "Remember! In its day the countach was just about the fastest car to ever hit the public roads and 180mph was reserved for the super rich. today you can find these speeds in some hot hatches. (It's crazy)

Still more attractive than all these young bucks.

@@zpunter4373 Too true - I had a lovely Countach on my wall - maybe a few too many wings for most. But I did also have a poster of the Vector W8 as well, so that says a lot about me.

@@ratspike8017 Vector W8 does say a lot I wonder how many of us even remember that failed attempt at US building a Supercar but it was a gorgeous car for the time including the aircraft type interior the mad gear shift,

It looks a bit like BMW techno violett

Antonio Farina It's is a Jag

BF20 GLF Gena wrong, it’s a Jaaaaaag

It’s based on one of his 1970s Kawasaki

I painted my 85 Trans Am GTA that very color when i was in college, purple with gold rims and ground effects. Not a scratch on these performance wise, but it was all the fun a 20 year old could ask for to me then.

TheKiteless So am I !

agreed!

Completely different cars! Harry shouldn't be comparing these 2 cars!! He himself said project 8 is the size of a M3... it's a sedan trying to be a race car with racing seats etc. M5 is a luxury executive sports sedan... it's not trying to be a project 8... I'd say a the stripped out M4 GTS is a much better comparison... both with racing wings and trying to be a race car

They are awesome. I think many people misunderstand what they are, they just think they're a fast xe, which really does it a disservice.

Agree!

That E60 M5 with the V10 was a very special car....if the rod bearings didn't fail and grenade your engine or if the vanos system didn't fail etc. The E60 was sold as a special M5, tow truck not included.😄

Good to know..

The point was the key is too big!

Guccifer 808 The point is that key is an option. You can stick with the standard key and do what the optional key does from your phone.

@@joetacchino4470 Actually the car comes with 3 keys, 2 normal ones and the display key. You can leave the display key at home if you don't need the information. Soon (I think starting august for the 5 series) you won't need any key, as you'll be able to open and drive the car just with your phone.

@@ssmaria so now a hacker can steal your car, by hacking your phone? Wow

He was involved making it

It's such a better car is why.

@@buggerlugz6753 You obviously know nothing about either. The Jag is a dog compared to the F90.

Agreed. 1986 mph vs 200mph. Screw the wing on if heading to the track (or the Autobahn). I'd skip the big jaguar stencil detail as well. It's not overdone, mind you; I'd just prefer the max mere sport-sedan look ...... on what is pretty much a race car.

Hats off to james pumphrey!!!

Mopowa babeh😎

100%

Touring

The B5 is an incredible car, a more comfortable GT 4 door (or touring), but it isn't a fast or focused as the M5 Competition.

Alpina are a completely different setup cant compare alpina to a track focussed car like P8. Alpina is setup very soft. Very nice car though

@@DaleSteel why on earth would you buy a 5 series as a dedicated track car? For anyone spending the majority of their time on public roads, the Alpina's suspension makes much more sense. I can understand a very small subset of BMW owners wanting a no compromise track suspension, but the Alpina should be the degault choice for those wanting a "performance saloon" with the M competition cars being more akin to limited edition track toys. Harry was wise in comparing the project 8 to the new M5 competition, neither are "traditional" performance road cars

Just give me a fucking key

smh

Yeh spot on mate he should be comparing the project at to an m4 gts or cs not an m5. The m5 is probably a closer competitor to an xjr

If it is anything like my F10 then no issues after 4+ years and 44k Mile.

Issues shouldn’t show up at 44k miles. It’s 100k, 150k... etc

Well,if y dont have the money,just stick with a Opel or something.. :)

That's why so many people rent their cars from the finance company these days. Also why so many nobbers are driving cars they couldn't have dreamed of once.

70k miles is the magic number for BMWs. When it hits 70k, get rid.

E60?

My E39 M5 has all the power you need. 400bhp, rear wheel drive ,manual gearbox and a decent chassis.. These super cars will never be driven more than 30% of their claimed potential.

100% right

Hell yes

@@ihateyanks321 I would agree with E60. No manual option in Europe and the E60's pretty crappy build quality aside, the E60 M5 was fantastic. The F10 was the first duff M5 - ugly sound, too much power, not enough traction and it's the size of a school. The E39 was perfect though.

Goaty you should watch old top gear episodes instead, you can feel like you have throwaway money

Goaty Orion 1.6i Ghia? Made me feel like a king when I was 17......30years ago. The only problem was,everyone else thought I was a complete knob head👍

Hmmm...for the same money as the M5 I can get a decent 4 door like a Quadrifoglio, an Evoque for the GF and have enough left over for a few charlie fuelled weekends!

What about a Montego... they run and run but their bodywork lets them down. Still, you can always sort that out with some chicken wire and filler...

Is Cadillac CT5-v Blackwing avail in UK? 650 bhp, awd, will run with these and has styling that is at least as nice.

It's all the faffing about the settings I was nearly in a coma. I'd love it to be big and scary all the time 😀 Styling is a bit numb and boring. 70s and 80s BMW will always be classy. Oh and project 8 I'd pick easy

I scrolled to the Jag comparison, that woke me up 🙂

@@iangillett2488 boy it sure did 😀 it could be a tonne heavier I'd still pick it. It has charecter and I can't believe I said that being a classic car guy.

Oh and also listen to his driving impressions and words compaired to BMW Love, wild, enjoying.

This thread put me in coma.

my m5 same as this but a 2019 model they have the nicer round virtual dials and i saved a lot of money

@@leekindell9937 Yes pre facelift that is so nice and classic!

They really do suck!

Imagine walking around with that in your pocket. People would think you had a hard on.

You get two keys one electronic brick and the other a normal smaller one same as on my i8 Roadster - the bigger one I never use as it's frankly a bit embarrassing !

Front = Bugs Bunny eating a pair of ass cheeks!

I wasn't aware of a M5 CS version, I'll check it out..

Harry's garage yes sir! I am pretty sure they’ve been running it on the NURBURING for a few months now. They are trying to set a new four-door sedan record with it. It is unclear whether here in the US it’s going to come out as a 2021 or 2022 model year car

Good to know and what I would do as an owner. That monster key was a right pain to pocket!

Harry's garage would be a pain in the arse for a back pocket.

Thanks for kind words. Only dropped £162k on P8, not £168k, so not so bad.. ;-)

Hyper overload 😂. The key is a damn tablet.

Most people's definition of modern luxury, unfortunately.

Haircut?

The eyes. Look at the eyes 👀

He looked a bit scarecrowish in those early vids.

@@MrTimeless101 *extracts fresh blood from every new subscriber*

Needs a shave though..Looks like a bit of a dosser at present..lol

I thought that too. Also can you still actually buy a P8?

Drive one and tell me it doesn't make you smile !

@Viktor Sligo yep!

*yeah the originals built by BMW Motorsport in the Motorsport Garching factory are the best iinfact the ultimate driving machine*

Some people will prefer the 'sleeper' looks. The Project 8 looks too much for me personally, more does not mean better.

Nik Gnashers There’s a difference between boring, lacking passion and a sleeper.

@@maskito4256 E39s, E60s, hell even Accord Euro Rs we have here look civilised and it is like 4000 times more impressive looking. And looks good 20 years after they were made too...

@@RS-nq8xk I agree. The E39 M5 is one of the best cars ever made, in many 'experts' opinion, and many car fans too. Cars which try too hard, don't age well.

That’s because you don’t really understand what this car is

In fairness the older Jags do too. I was lucky to get my hand on a (at the time) 3 years old XF-RS. These were limited build and I still got it for less than a new Audi A4. Totally converted me to a Jag addict 😅.

No one in their right mind would pay list for an M5, so bad, but not quite as bad as it seems. But still at a year old and around £60k it makes much more sense.

It’s now almost 2022 and used 2019 M5 competitions are still almost 100k 😐

You set it up once, store it in M1 and M2, and that’s it. Not that headache inducing, really...

@@Anders_HeymSR30 except I couldn't even be arsed to set it up the once. they should just set it from the factory and give you the option of M1/M2.

boomtard

@@TheDoosh79 They should know what car they want to be selling. They have very good test drivers, they can set up the car properly! There's also a problem with speccing the car. It's like "we won't bother, just print all the possible combinations" and let the customer loose his mind chosing the colour of the stitching on the front left and rear right seat bolster separately. Madness!

Besides E60 sounded like a supercar rather than sports sedan/muscle car.

Not really its not that much in the netherlands its more than double a mustang gt has a starting price of 120.000€+ for reference

It's a wealth tax. Better than America where the roads are falling apart and working-class people are sleeping in their cars between shifts.

VAT is 20%... were you expecting it to be less just because the price? What's worse is the road tax will be inflated for like 5 years because the car is over £50k (or whatever the figures are)... that's a deliberate wealthy tax.

Have to agree. BMWs just don’t seem special. No matter the power, the tech etc there’s something lacking. It’s the difference between a premium and a prestigious brand.

All the Beemas look very samey. The Jag looks different both inside and outside. At least the Audi's RS gets a wide body... This is a bit too stealthy for something that has a competione badge.

You know what? You have far better car then this if you ask me ;)

@@bxl1121 it was a dream to own one since i left school. For my 30th last year it was a present to me. I love it.

Cliff Campbell out of curiosity...have you had the vanos issue happen on yours?

@@toysandgameswithesmeeandis4096 Lucky you. I am not particularly BMW fan but I think it is one of the greatest cars ever built. amazing engine, manual gearbox, handles like a dream and super super comfortable.

@@franciscoamaral4383 as a precaution i had a VANOS overhaul, then attacked all coolant components. It has proved really reliable apart from parking sensors failed.

I used to really like his reviews Ian but he comes across more and more like a rich playboy telling us plebs that all the (semi) affordable cars we could maybe dream of at a stretch are rubbish compared to the really special limited edition things he can afford... I agree re the Joe Achilles comment too - I thinks he's 'one of us' and therefore I respect his opinion more.

Yes, or go Alpina if you can afford it

The BBC? Not a high bar these days.

@@faustusTVR exactly! Faint praise indeed 😅

faustus t I was being ironic 😏

I'm afraid so. F10 M5 will still be a classic M5 for me, though, as that engine is a stunner. (and yes, I know it has reliability issues..)

How long have you had it and what miles have you put on? How are you finding the quality and reliability?

Hydorah which M5, E34 or F10?

@@Kevinpayneuk Sorry, F10 I didn't realise you had a whole stable full of them

@Anustaster The 1600s if memory serves.

he does an excellent John Shuttleworth impression too.

@@RufusT9 OOFF! I think you're quite misguided Ken.

Not especially

Definitely!

I agree. The wheel arches are no longer that flared. After 15,000 miles though ... I really like it, it’s lacking in looks and perhaps a bit in sound (compared with aftermarket exhaust GT500 that is). It’s still a drivers car, it handles way better than expected, but it’s heavy ... need to brake earlier than the rest of the car give impression of ... weight is hidden till you brake hard. Steering is a bit lack luster ... but the totality of the car make it all worth it. Yes the fan keep going for a long time ... they don’t want the turbos to fail early. Just fans are louder than most car engines :) seats are awesome ... The key is a bit pointless .. connected app does it all anyhow, so just use the smaller key instead. I do love the fat steering wheel, but agree it’s numb ... precise but missing the steering from the M3 E9x

*Only the first 2 are proper M5's ,if it's not built by BMW Motorsport at BMW Motorsport* *Remember that*

It's pretty much a Jaguar hallmark.