You pushed it as an average American would expect out of their car, making zero compromises, which is an important test. However, having lived with the 30kwh Leaf as our primary car in the Pacifc Northwest, I can say that it has taught us to be a bit more mindful when driving. The Leaf Plus is the most economical EV, and that is sorely needed in today's market. Part of what allows for that is lack of higher complexity features like active thermal management. For the price, you can't beat it (literally the lowest $/kwh available in the US) and for those who are ok to adapt their driving style based on the task at hand (go slower for longer trips), it is a wonderful car that will repay you over the years in fuel and maintenance savings. And for around town there's nothing better, it's a highly rewarding car to own while most cheap ICE vehicles are a constant burden.
My gosh, where to start? I've done 1,000+ DCFC sessions on Gen 1 and 2 Leafs. I also drive a CCS BEV. 1) where's your LeafSpy so you can see actual battery temps? Tell me the temp and I will tell you the starting kW (Lemon Teaf Leaf had a chart). 2) When comparing BEVs, distance at avg efficiency added per unit of time is proper measure. 3) EVgo is the company to charge Leaf+ on. They have installed "100kW" CHAdeMO chargers in some locations in a deal with Nissan. 4) ask a DCFC repair tech which plug is more robust. You may be surprised. 5). The best Leaf charging curve was the 30kWh variant; 40kWh worse in many ways. Looks like Leaf+ worse than that, even. 6). On 440 mi day trip in 40kW, lost 20 min to Rapidgate (6%) BUT you cannot drive > 60mph without more heating and 55 will allow battery cooling @80° ambient. EA South Korean SigNet chargers installed in CA will not charge our CCS car at all (Honda). They are very pretty, though. Last week someone plugged a Kona into an EA charger I had used a few days before, and I got the bill for his session. I know you guys love EA, but our experience in CA has not been great thus far.
I'm at a loss to figure out what Nissan was thinking with this car. I had the first generation. I got burned with some serious degradation. I opted out of the 2nd generation because of the lack of thermal management. Which is sad because I really liked my 1st gen, and I really liked the new body style on the 2nd gen. If it had CCS and thermal management, I would have probably bought one. I honestly can't recommend the Leaf to anyone these days, and not even a used one either.
Thermal mgmt in Northern half of the country really only matters if taking long road trips frequently. I still DC charge because its free and both Leafs rarely exceed 6 bars. Not saying thermal mgmt isn't nice, but for many of us it's a non issue. My 2 Pluses are at 98 and 94.8% SOH, but some of that is BMS controlled based on whatever its algorithm is.
An objective person would have no problem recommending a Leaf as a vehicle for use around town and regional driving, so maybe claiming you couldn't recommend it to ANYONE is more about your biases and less about the vehicle.
Totally agree that the leaf is not designed for a road trip. when I found there was 40 and 62 kw version, finally i choose the 40 one, not only the money but also the charging. Coz even you got 62 one, the charging process is still limited by time and the temp. I live in Canada Vancouver BC, up to now i got 3 x 1000 km road trip, not too bad, while on the trip i mix level 2 and 3 charging. the battery never overheat, and performance is pretty nice. Thanks for the video sharing.
I have always thought that the LEAF was pretty much dedicated to the home charging crowd - period. No to run around folks who rack up mileage or have to fast charge ... Off peak at night on a home charger, the battery should not heat much. Battery life should be good, maybe 10 years ... So it's a good run around town car, commute to work car, etc. And if you also have a pick-up to tow the boat, or whatever, you are not likely to road trip this much. Seems to a low intensity car not really aimed st first adopters who will challenge any tech, including EV's. Very comfy and kind of "cuddly" nice car built on a cost conscious budget. Look at the price drop to see where their margins were on older ones ... One assumes that Nissan is still making a few $ per car ...
Great charge test and quite reasonable pricing if you had only charged to say 80%. It's just shocking that Nissan refused to put any thermal cooling in the Leaf. I think picking up used Leafs for run around town cars is still a great way to get into an EV. I go up to VA quite often and it's frustrating being charged by time instead of kw.
Personally I'm less bothered by the lack of thermal management limiting the ability to fast charge as I am by the well-documented effect it has on battery longevity. Leafs (Leaves?) have notably more battery degradation than other EVs with proper thermal management. To me, that limits their value even as a cheap used EV that would only be used for daily commuting. I would personally choose a Soul EV over a Leaf if looking for a cheap daily commuter EV because at least it has air cooling. That's better than nothing. I recently did a road trip in my Bolt where the high temperature for the day was 109* (hot for Oregon) and the Bolt was having to run the battery chiller even when not fast charging. I was watching on Torque as I was driving, and it seemed to want to keep the battery cell temperatures cooler than that, between 95-100* when just driving. They would get a little warmer when DCFC but even then, I think it never even got as hot as the ambient temp when it was at the peak heat of the day. That would be impossible for a Leaf. Trying to DCFC on a day like that would be a nightmare, even if you only had to charge once, and then the battery would pretty much stay overheated all day because it would have no ability to passively cool. Even the Soul would have some ability to keep the battery cooler because the intake for the air cooling was in the vehicle interior, which would typically be cooled to a livable temperature. Nissan really killed the Leaf, at least in the US, by making their "long range" EV not really ideal or even usable for long range (in some areas/conditions) because they continued to use a dying fast charging standard (in this country) and failed to provide any sort of battery cooling even though that was a noted concern before they updated to the larger battery.
Kyle, nice informative video! More of that for the other cars you guys present here. I think charging tests should be part of any EV presentation because it’ll help tell what the vehicle is suitable for.
Bjorn and Kyle are the only ones that have shown the leaf charging above 50 kw. Everybody seams to think chademo is bad because it's slow. Not true, give the leaf 200 amps and it's cranking at 70 kw.
Soon this will be a non-issue as Nissan switches to CCS and liquid cooling with the Ariya. This will enable everyone except Tesla to use the same plug (hopefully they also come around to CCS soon).
Loved my Leaf; however, these thermal management limitations were just too frustrating so I sold the car after just one year. Fortunately, I bought the car from the first owner so I came out fine but I would still happily own the car today if it could consistently fast charge.
Nice thing is you can get them cheap. I got a new Plus SL for $20,000 cheaper than the cheapest Model 3. I very rarely (basically never) take journeys over 300 miles one way in a day so it's an easy car to live with for me. Especially since I am cold climate area.
There was an article I read in the news today that said that used Leafs were in high demand, mostly because of price. I know 2 people who bought used Leafs for this reason. Kyle, you're more into road trips than most people, I think. I think the people who would want to buy the Leaf would be daily commuters, rather than Cannonball Run long distance achievers. It's interesting when you do that, but I don't think the majority of people are into that so much. Maybe Nissan omits the thermal management to save on overall cost? I don't know.
Definitely the case. It's made for Japanese habits, calmly traveling reasonable distances. Not for a certain segment of US drivers that are driving long distances regularly. They even named their rapid charging standard after "tea time" implying one relaxes as it charges.
@@scottbreseke716 True, but Japan is also quite long. Google maps says it's a 28 hour drive from end to end. I wonder if anyone has done that journey in a LEAF.
What Im taking away here is that the slower charge is more healthy for the battery. Also that its likely the battery will overheat during normal use which also degrades the battery's overall life.
Driving under I think 15% the lthe diminishing cell voltages causes the current drain of the battery rise. Power equation demonstrated. Any time the battery is moving alot of current around, it heats up and as shown here slow to dump the heat. So, using LeafSpy, I would try to time recharges before that rise in battery temp caused by a low charge condition - 15% or so (depending on weather). It is better to either L2 charge (at home) or do shorter CHADEMO sessions when the summer heat of the southeast is with us. L2 charging and staying closer to home means the battery seldom heats up even in the southeast. I've operated Leaf's with the 62 KWH battery in ~95F weather and the battery does pretty good staying cool unless I fast charge it. The Leaf is an excellent EV for short distances. Not a good hot weather road tripper if you require fast charges. I've tried to understand the limitations of the Leaf and live with it - and it fits well with my needs and habits. The aircooled Leaf is not like a standard car which can go and go and go.
Kind of a bummer. SL Plus here. @50f I did a 460 mile trip first 3 charges were quick 1 hour or less but the last one took 2.5 hours what a long day! Mostly highway @60mph.
@@Mikewalden12345 Bjorn Nyland (also on RU-vid) has shown that the batteries don't cool that much even in Norwegian weather once they get hot. It still takes a fair bit of time. We'll keep our Leaf within a few hundred miles of home and then continue to travel with our ICE SUV. In a few more years we'll pickup a used Ariya or something similar for trips. By then there will be more chargers and travel will require less planning.
As a second around town car in a northern climate I think the leaf is the best choice for price and perhaps safety. I think there’s only one case of a 2015 catching fire. Look at all the precautions one needs to do with a bolt. I know there are those that will say ice cars have more fires, but those are usually in an accident. Does an ice car ever catch fire while parked in your garage overnight?
i took my kona ev on a 620 mile road trip. it got 75kw until 75% then slowed down to around 25kw. it gets to 80% fast enough for my needs. ~35 minutes to go from 10-80%. so walk around walmart or have a burger time. or watch a show. nbd. 1.5 hours? no thanks! the leaf not having battery cooling is just an insane engineering choice.
I have 2019 leaf plus and I live in Japan. The highest reading I've seen on the battery temp meter was just one step above the middle and that was during summer, after a 30 minute fast charge at about 30 degrees Celsius ambient temp. Last week I fast charged from 40% to 90% also in 30 minutes at the fast charger located at Nissan HQ in Yokohama and the temp meter, didn't go past half way although ambient temp was lower, about 21 C. I don't have a charger at home, so I always use the fast chargers in the area, there's one at the shopping mall nearby and it's also free to use, so I use that one pretty often, again I've never seen the temps go any high. I wonder if this somehow different for each region's version of the vehicle.
If you do the math, if you had carried on to 100% the EA charger would have dispensed 58.5 kWh into the leaf. Now charging losses are less on a leaf since it doesn't have power going to active thermal management, but even if the charging is 99% efficient (unlikely) that makes the useable capacity less than 58 kWh on a 62 kWh pack. I made a chart of the charging curve in excel if you are interested.
The video is a bit dated. I have fast charged my 2022 SL plus in 95 degree Florida heat several times in one day. The battery got hot, but never rapid gated on me. I also experienced 70 kWh charging on a 50 kWh charger. I don’t know why, but it was a nice bonus. Maybe Nissan changed something between model years?
whoa! hang on a sec using my level 2 J-1772 connector with a 6kw charger it only takes me less then 30 mins to hit 100% and cut off and only $1.33 for my 2019 Mercedes Benz Smart what a heck? And bat temp is not a factor it has a battery A/C if needed!
Actually, the stall with CHAdeMO is exactly the same as the other 150kW charging units but they oddly have 2 CCS plugs. The stations are designed to host both CHAdeMO and CCS and the EA strategy to have 2 CCS is complete nonsense to me since you cannot charge on both plugs at the same time. EA says the 2 CCS plugs are for better reach of the charging ports on different EV. I think would hurt to have 2-3 stalls per location with CHAdeMO.
??? at under 85 degrees this 2020 Leaf would not efficiently charge on Level 3, but what about Level 2 at home? would it still take much longer than the expected 9 to 12 hours to get from 20% to 80% charge capacity?
Any work around or aftermarket parts to help with the battery overheating? I just bought 21 leaf plus this weekend, it’s my only car and now I feel a tad bit worried about future extended trips.
The best thing you can do is do a deep dive with the RU-vid roadtrip videos which include LeafSpy. You can see how they cope with the limitations of the car and make it work. Learn to minimize the battery heat. And rent a car when you want to go 1000 miles or go short distances and L2 charge overnight. :)
I have an 2019 LEAF Plus has lost 23% battery to degradation 😑 Otherwise I like the car but would love to drive it more and harder but have to baby it 🙄
All teslas in the us can now use chademo with an adapter and with my EV and many others chademo the network isnt going away. I thought nissan solved this problem with rapidgating via a software update?
What driving routine did you do to get up to that temperature for the first charge you showed? Is that like 80 mph driving to get the battery to a low state of charge?
With the announcement to move to ccs in Europe with the arrier, I think it’s a real shame they didn’t offer the ccs water cooled pack on the leaf , or is Nissan determined to kill this beloved car and end there former CEO’s project , already we have seen 4x4 versions in test to develope the new cars powertrain so we know it fits , with all the new models appearing from vw and psa as well as new amazing Chinese made ev’s such as the polostar 2 they need to update this car soon otherwise they will lose the majority of small car ev ownership
I have a question. I have a 2020 Nissan Leaf Plus with that big battery pack. People have said that it's best after driving the car to let it cool down before the re-charge. How long do you wait for it to cool down?
so I can't use J1772, only can use chademo? All chademo in my area are 50kw and only 1 charging spot out of 14-16 stalls... leaf doesn't look like a good purchase tbh
All LEAFs in the US from 2011-present have the J1772 plug, and some also have the ChaDeMo plug for DC fast charging…such as it is. The two plugs are located under the front charge port lid at the front of the hood.
Aircooled battery. It gets hot. It can't cool itself. To protect itself, it slows the charging speed so it is not ruined by the heat. The Leaf has the last aircooled battery design. Everyone else uses watercooled batteries including Nissan in their other EVs. The Leaf is a fine local car. Not a roadtripping car.
@@joeaverager I have a 2011 Leaf. Range is about 10 miles. I kept hoping for a good aftermarket solution utlizing the newest batteries, but so far no-go. I do recall a video saying that CATL will make Leaf compatible batteries.
It’s likely we will see even more of a decline of new CHAdeMO installs going forward. This video will likely have viewership long into the future so I sort of future-proofed it. Many of the state lead incentives are CCS/CHAdeMO yes but they are also 50-75kW which is not that incredible for long trips - Kyle
