Totally agree. Why is it so hard for the manufacturers to see this gap in the market. Whoever does this first, and right, will win massively and outsell everything else. A CRF450L Adv or a WR450R Adv. Job done. Here's my money!
@@migflc778 We have them here, too, but they are far more maintenance intensive than are the 300s. Eliminates them from consideration as adventure bikes, imho.
Everyone does but Honda is too damn dumb to do it. Instead they're working on a baby Africa Twin for 4 years or so. Could have gone the easy way and fill the gap that isn't already filled by Yamaha.
I have a 2016 F800GS that I have put nearly 50,000 miles on since I boight it new. But, I'm a Honda fanboy at heart, and own several other 2 and 4 wheeled Hondas. My GS has been so good to me, but this bike realllyyyy has me tempted to give it up. Especially if its a touch lighter and has a wonderfully high revving Honda engine! To be fair, my GS has become mostly a commuter now, since I have picked up a '19 CRF450L (USA version) and made it into an ADV lite bike.
I wish they went for something lighter and farther apart from the Africa Twin. For me, a twin 600-700 engine would probably have more than enough power and if they could focus in weight saving and come down 20-30kg from the AT then it would be a serious contender.
It should be a bike that will take you anywhere you want to go on the planet, it should be light, economical, real off road, it should look good, fitted up for panniers a screen, heated grips, and a low 30 inch seat that's really comfortable. and it should be reliable but being a Honda I suppose that goes without saying. And after all that it should be easy to buy, more Royal Enfield Himalayan than Africa twin. I think they would sell thousands of them.
850? We don't want a 850. We want a simple, economical 500/600. Basically a better suspension, 18/21 spoked wheel cb500x. Chuck in some bloody electronics if you really must. But the majority of riders want a bog standard more off road capable cb500x. Come on Honda, it's not rocket science.
Totally agree!!! Bump the displacement a little and give us more power like 10hp and 8-10ft/lbs (restrict if you must for our license limited brethren). Give us another couple inches of ground clearance and suspension travel, switchable ABS, and a few more ponies and it would be the perfect motorcycle. Or add a "rally package" as an option to the CB. A personal one for me is a highway gear that's not screaming at 70MPH.
@@jonathanrosen6160 I put a 16 tooth up front, helped a ton. No longer looking for a 7th gear. Speedo went from indicating 5 kmph low to 3 kmph high. No biggie. 22 Canadian pesos... Cheap fix.
I ride a 500X currently and if it had another 20 HP it would be the perfect bike for me. the AT is just too heavy and expensive for me to really want one. Come in around that 10K (USD) mark and sub 200kg weight at 70ish HP and I'll buy one tomorrow
I ride CB500x too but the power is not the main problem, it's the suspension. When cruising on Highway the power is ok for one person but as soon as you ride gravel or offroad the suspension is so bad you can't use even 47 hp. What I want is a well tuned bike between power and suspension that can go anywhere. CRF1100L is too big on trails and too pricey. If Honda manage to make a cheaper, lighter and well tuned bike for on/off road I will upgrade my CB500x.
Something that shorter leg people can confidently straddle. I have all but given up on the adv category, because anything above 80cm seat is a stretch for me.
Fully agree. Above 150kg and a seat height higher than 32 inches is a no go for me, its not that i cant handle it but its when i stop to an off camber trail its a handfull to keep it straight. If at least give a option to a 31 inch seat it would be great or better still a option from the factory with lowered suspension with a more onroad focused model but with some benefits of an adventure motorcycle.
I grew up on the 650 dualsports. I LOVE my Africa Twin, and I push it deep into the offroad, but sometimes Id like a lighter version with taller suspension. Ive been eying the T7 for quite some time now, but I wish Honda could give me my AT in a 700cc form.
Hey Solid, great vid, 800 Africa Twin is what everyone wants, honda needs to step up and get this thing made already. I think it would sell fast. Just my opinion. Keep up the great work.
High, i think, first Honda comes with a 750. One or two years later they will offer the little Afrika-Twin with a bigger motor, like KTM did. Kindly Fiete
Any adventure bike has to be off-road capable to be a true adventure bike. A weight around 400 lbs. is just about the max, but if it comes in at 450 lbs., people will buy it. For me, less is more! ;-)
Honda has a 500cc engine that could be used in a more dirt orientated adv bike. Another country has done this with a version [clone] of the Africa twin why can't Honda?
Long live the Tenere 700! Why do bike builders think that increasing engine size every time they "upgrade" a popular design, is a good idea ??? I'm getting older & if I decide to change my beloved Yamaha 660cc MT03, it will be for a LIGHTER BIKE NOT A HEAVIER ONE ! Africa twin for example has reached 1084cc & 226 Kg: They can keep it as far as I'm concerned :(
I don't want to buy a new bike and have to invest in after market parts anymore. I'm bloody busy enough with life. Just build a damn bike for 8 or 9 grand that I just have to put a number plate on.
I'm going along with what many others have commented...850 is too big and too close to the AT to differentiate. Needs to be in 450-650 range and the lightest in this class to pique my interest.
I wrote my comment and was then surprised how many other people also want a 400cc to 650cc proper adventure bike from Honda. I wanted a single cylinder ADV bike in the 1970s. At least we have a few now. Maybe Honda will give us what we want some day.
An off road version of the NC750X would potentially be light enough yet with plenty of torque and exceptional fuel economy and so potential for increased range. Weight is the problem, not capacity.
So, as I was saying... I've seen several CRF250L with CBR500R/F engines shoehorned in. Adds about 13 kg and triples the power. A CRF500 Rally with a 500 twin and 12000 km service intervals would be fantastic. If people can build one in their shed, Honda should be able to build them in their sleep.
wanting to move from all dirt, to dualsport/adventure....850 is more than i'd want/need. maybe 500-700cc. Keep the weight down. Maybe a step up from the 450 (with increased service intervals).
As an adventure rider I need something that is simultaneously comfortable riding to Starbucks, but also can do some proper off road, and anything above 700cc is just going to be too heavy. They need an offroad version of the cb500x.
Agree. At least there is a European market for a motorcycle with an engine up to 35 kW (48 hp) for riders with an A2 license ("learner"), and others who do not need a larger engine. Such a bike will fill the gap in the market from the discontinued Yamaha XT660Z Tenere.
People are building them in their sheds, which should surely tell honda there's a market for them. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NdYgtPryNow.html
A movie worth watching twice! Also, give us an Africa Single, about 500cc. If the 390 can get past Euro 5, Honda should be able to manage it. Pleeeeze, give us the unicorn!
ahhh nah...i want a 500-600 -700cc single pot thumper from Honda thats a simple motor (not crf450 like) with E-button and EFI....a modern day XR650R if you will that can be modded to ride where an owner wants...i have no interest in buying an adventure bike like this Alps thing...the end!
Rally raid will do that for you with quality components, just get a regular cb500x and upgrade parts gradually,…and there you go.. your baby africa twin without a vtwin sound.
850 cc is still pretty big. It's a shame something far lighter and 450-500cc isn't more fashionable. As others have said, they have a CB500X; just make that more off road capable. Bigger isn't always better....
OK, I get the TransAlp direction and really look forward to it, but 850? That just makes it ANOTHER big bore HEAVY adventure bike, just like the Africa Twin, how about keeping it 750 or 700 or 650, light maneuverable and with a low seat height for us vertically challenged, but with good suspension for the off-road trekkers that want to take the REAL unbeaten path. Yamaha did it with the Tenere, now Honda, Kawi and Suzuki need to get into the game so the price wars can begin. Am I wrong?
After this second video version,, I have agree 💯 on your statement about displacement. Do we,, as consumers really need a 200hp adv/ dirt machine 🤔? Friends,,, ask yourself that question before you pipe in. Maybe a Professional rider could utilize most of that 200, but Joe Average (myself included) will Never touch the full potential of a engine like that🤷♂️. And think about the maintenance intervals! Yikes 😫. I want a low maintenance, high reliability machine that gets the job done and stays out of the shop! Ride safe everyone. Cheers 🍻, G.
Maybe they could bore the cb500 just to make it a little more special...call it the Qatar (to appease the baby africa twin crowd,) ..rally styling..heated grips, cruise control. Ground clearance, dirt oriented like the Tenere 700 but focus on keeping it light, fast enough to take a long trip on, maybe put a built in second built in 1 gallon fuel reserve tank a la dakar bikes. Rudimentary fairings that could fold/pop out for highway, and lay flat when you get off the road, but manually and basic. Then make the 750 into the transalp, and make it more of a touring bike.. it needs an identity anyway and they dont need anything that will canabalize the africa twin...or my dreambike the HONDA 🇶🇦 545a(AFRICA) 😛a guy can dream right?
One of the problems is that we won't get a 400 or 500 cc bike when we call an 850 a middleweight. No, it's big and heavy. No, it's not a baby. It's big. When we start calling them big and heavy they will make a real middle weight. Then we might get our 400-500 cc bike.
@@suzyamerica4679 Buuuut there's a CRF300, CRF450 basically covering that (but they're singles and vibey). And they look like dirt bikes. A bit more refined looks and a parallel twin would be awesome! Anyway, I'm the very happy owner of a CB500X and think it's a great platform with lots of potential, and Rally Raid has kits and accessories to make it super.
@@jonathanrosen6160 For this season I'm going to switch from a Versys 650 to CRF250L for adventure riding. Waiting to see how that turns out. Forgot how much work it is to take care of all the little things needed for distance travel.
@@suzyamerica4679 Yeah they're actually coming out with the CRF300L. Personally I think it's pretty tall. And yes, a 400cc with big wheels yet still not as tall. Basically somewhere between a CB500X and CRF300L would be AWESOME!!! Assuming a decent tank and range over 200 miles.
@@jonathanrosen6160 Right now I'm getting about 200 miles out of a full aftermarket tank. The plan is to ride it until it's finally worn out, then do the Athena 300 upgrade to the engine and start all over again. The rest of the bike is more or less set up now for ADV riding. Just need to finish a few details. I will post a video once it's all dialed in.
Well said. A lighter weight version of the T7 would sell like hot cakes. We know this because the T7 is the highest selling bike here in Oz and one of the biggest gripes with it is the weight, that’s even despite it weighing less than others in the category!
My "ideal" bike would be one around 400lbs, with about 60hp and 40-45 ft/lbs, parallel twin between 400-600cc, revs to at least 8,000 RPM, at highway speeds around 65MPH would run around 4500 RPM, come with 19/17 wheels standard, about 6" suspension travel front and rear, about 6-7" ground clearance, set up for 80/20. Add a "rally" package upgrade with better suspension, 21/18 spoked wheels.
Personally, I want to see the engine taken directly from the new NC750. Put it in a proper frame with increased ground clearance and good quality off road suspension, along with a large tank and you have an awesome adventure bike with a hell of an incredible range. (imagine 3.7 L/100km and a 25 L tank)
Whatever motor or body they come up with I dearly hope it weighs 400 pounds or less. I have R1250GS and I can tell you it's no fun in soft and rocky terrain. I sprained my foot twice already keeping the 600 pound bike up. I had a 790 ADV that weighed 480 pounds still no good for my riding skills and style and sold it. So I'm looking forward to this bike or the upcoming KTM 490. I'm done taking heavy bikes off road. I agree with you that you once mentioned that translates to something like... the unicorn bike may still be a unicorn. These manufactures would not make a bike that can do both on and offroad. They at least want to sell you 2 bikes (one for long distance/paved riding and offroad) while in reality when you go adventure riding you cannot bring 2 bikes with you.
All the people screaming for a lighter bike will end up with 650 single or a 500X. There's loads of this litter around. Singles are useless for motorway speeds and carrying pillions. You can't build this new Transalp without ending up with it at somewhere around 200kg. I took an original AT 750 and reduced the weight by 20kg and uprated the suspension. It's brilliant off road and cost £4500. Stop whinging. You aren't going to get something out of the showroom and it be much cop off road anyway.
I think there’s a sweet spot right between those two; at least for us more road biased guys that just want to run occasional gravel and forestry roads. 750-800cc, a few TC options, on/off simple ABS, cruise control, tubeless tires, power socket. $11-12k. Then make another more off-road loaded model. (Think new Triumph Tiger 850 Sport/900 Rally range)
Going to still be heavy and not have much more power than the Tenere .....A Japanese KTM890 ....less power than the KTM heavier but cheaper and probably cheaper to maintain and better longevity
im hoping for a little mnore hp than the T7 without being heavier , better suspension and brakes maybe borrowed from the Africa twin and no computer nanny nonsense , simple like the T7 and im on !! must tell you i am a 20+year total KTM fanboi , the 2017 1090r ive had since new with 28000miles and many thousands in aftermarket on it is for sale now is my 6th one and last , sadly ill never buy another
I’m with you, I think, though I love my 2016 AT DCT, having traded up from 1988 Transalp, I would like a dirt worthy 800 Transalp and would trade down...
I’ve taken an Africa Twin off-road many a times it’s more than capable so personally I’d not be too interested in a smaller capacity machine. But can understand why a lot of people would like one a bit smaller. But for me it’d compromise touring ability for my holidays.
I think there is no meaning to bring another over 200 kg advanture bike that closer weight with africa twin. Honda has 300cc single cylinder ADV bikes but it needs extra power when you fully loaded. I would even prefer around 500cc but lighter weight bec already you have to add alot extra weight for longer trips.
V-twin please, not the boring 1/2 a Civic motor, max 175kg dry, min 75bhp, 21/18 spoked wheels, less than 830mm seat height - Call it a Transalp and I would buy that!
I have a 2019 Africa Twin Adventure Sports. My biggest concerns are weight and range. 40 mpg with a 6 gallon tank isn't enough for me. I've been places where I would need to carry extra fuel. I've also had a 650 V-Strom. Based on my experience, I think 800cc would be about right for the Transalp, if they can get 50 mpg with a 6 gallon tank. I suspect they will use a smaller tank and the range will drop down to around 200 miles. They really need to find a way to get more fuel into these things.
The "middle weight" TransAlp looks better for me than the Africa Twin, but what I really want is an Africa Single ADV bike in the 400cc tp 650cc class that's light and maneuverable. The bigger bikes are better for highways, but that's not my idea of adventure. I want a comfortable bike that's good off road, with Honda reliability and long service intervals. 8 inches or more of suspension travel, spoked wheels with tubeless tires, and give it a HUGE fuel tank that also provides wind protection and crash protection for the legs. Give it good engine protection and a big rear rack as standard features. Switchable ABS but not a lot of expensive and complex electronics. Maybe a Rain mode. A couple of 3A micro USB charging ports on the dash would be nice.
They really need to keep the weight down and if they can't go as low as I'd like, keep the CG really low. For my use case, dirt is not a priority; but decent leg room is, and some ground clearance. And I would be very pleased if the torque curve was low and peaked at 100ft/lbs. :D And give us that beautiful red white and blue colour scheme. Honda really does a nice job with that.
A Honda XR650R with updated suspension and E-start is the perfect duel sport. Enough with all the fairings and crap hanging off the bike that gets destroyed or looks like crap the first time the bike goes down.
The problem for Honda is that the NC 700 and then the NC 750 are real turds for hp. 55hp for a 750 is dismal. The 650-700 competition run around 70 hp. A good, slightly more dirt worthy 70 hp replacement for the NC 750, with the dual clutch option would be perfect.
I bought a 2021 CB500X this spring. It is a fantastic bike but I am quickly finding its 2 major limits for my riding needs. 1) I want a more dirt worthy bike, I have already dropped 1k into it for tires, skid plate/crash bars and hand guards but it is still not quite good enough for were I want to go, it needs more clearance and a better suspension. 2) It lacks smooth, fully loaded, freeway power. Yes it can keep up with traffic but it is buzzy and you have to plan your passes carefully. I think a 750cc AT style adventure bike but without all the costly bells and whistles that are on the AT. Just switchable ABS and fully adjustable shocks, plus 50/50 tires, spoked wheels and a bash plate.
I think it's a great bike, I have the 2016. Check out Rally Raid they have what you want in suspension and clearance. I've very lightly modded my 2016 and found that it's less buzzy after the Barkbusters. I've also gone from a 15t front sprocket to a 16, stretches out the gears a bit. May not be what you are looking for, as I do some highway miles. Totally agree on power, added a slip on and K&N filter, feels more brisk. A power commander/fuel map/ECU flash to get a few more horses and ft/lbs would make it perfect.
@@jonathanrosen6160 I guess that is the whole point of the article. Why would anybody take a new CB500x and drop another $5000 CND Rally Raid kit into it when they could have bought a T-700 for the same price? Additionally, with the T-700 you get an extra 23 horse power and an extra 60mm of ground clearance. That's why Honda needs to introduce a new mid-size ADV. The CB500X is great for what it is made for but it can't compete with a T-700 no matter how you mod it up.
@@butcherman1234 Yes, true. But it would suit me better that way than a T7. Plus the T7 does need a couple things. In a perfect world a 600-650 with near the power of the T7 weighing 400 or just over would be ideal. I'm primarily a road rider and the T7 is too much dirt oriented for me. But a very good point and being a Honda fan would like them to make something to compete with the T7. If it's a bit lighter and only slightly less capable off road that would be the sweet spot for me.
I rode the NC700X. Very nice engine, just a tad underpowered on highways and long high speed runs, but a killer offroad. Shame I had to do it on 17/17" wheels. I'm riding a heavy VFR1200X and I'm looking.. no, I'm drooling over the T7, but if Honda puts an 850cc NC type engine, with a T7 look, in a Transalp, I'm all in. Atm, Honda is not doing it for me anymore. The CRF1000L was a let down for me. Sold it after a year, too many technical issues.
Great job 👍 even with the little mistakes 😂🤣👍 if it comes looking like the concept picture of the baby African twin , I would love one 😁 ……..but they never look like the concept picture…….so we just have to see what they give us 🤷🏻♂️ .
I would like to see something like a husky 701 LR, CRF650l rally perhaps. Two cylinders would be nice also but it needs to be at least as good as a T7. Forget electronics, just give us, ground clearance, pro suspension and a big tank.
Having ridden my 1986 Honda XLV600L halfway around the world, I hope they don't sully the Transalp name and make it just another street-bias adventure bike. I hope it shares a lot if not all the DNA from the Africa Twin and little from the CB500X....bring it on!! I also think that 850cc is too big - 650-700cc would have ample enough mumbo to do anything and go anywhere. The biggest dilemma I will have will be choosing between the new Transalp and the Norden 501!!
Hopefully, they will give options similar to the Triumph Tiger 850-900 range. Give me an option for tubeless tires and simple ride modes (like the Tiger 850 Sport) but add cruise control and Honda’s reliability and dealer network. Keep it around 750-800cc and $11-12k Equals WIN!
a little lighter and more HP than the Tenere700 with better suspension and brakes , maybe borrowed from the big bro A.T.? but with the T7'snod to simplicity so no computer nanny nonsense , no ride modes no traction control and if it must have ABS make it easy to turn off !! ohh yeah tubeLess rims/tires as well............ do this & TAKE MY MONEY ALREADY !!!
When you look at a bike and start sweating, better hide your wallet! Just gorgeous, do you think DCT would be an option? Any clue on the price? Riding a Himalayan right now which is great for truck camping, would like a middleweight for road trips as I need a little more power for highways, but don’t want to go back to oversized ADV bike like the GS 1200/1250
I have the 2003 Africa Twin (750) and my only complaints are that its too heavy and too much plastic. If Honda could update that bike that was so popular for so many years, we would be set. I attended a motorcycle show in Dallas in 2019, all the big guys were there. They all had come out with a mid size adventure bike after the popular 1000cc plus run over a few years. Honda instead went bigger that year with the 1100cc AT. Here again I feel like Honda is behind the wave of the midsize adventure bikes, maybe letting anticipation build or just waiting to see what works or doesn't.....cmon Honda, get on with it!
Would trade in my crf1000 in a heartbeat for a smaller AT. Mine had performed flawless. No quality issues at all, always starts etc. But it is heavy as f**k and i seldom need all the power it offers.
The direction is clear in my opinion... there ist nothing like the Tenere 700 or KTM 890 on the market. Suzukis VStrom is too soft. Honda should produce an offroad oriented bike with touring possibilities... around 200kg or better less (full), 21" front wheel, comfortable seat, no traction control, good in a wide range adjustable windscreen
I would pay for an NC750X redesigned with 21/18 Spoked wheels with longer adjustable suspension which can be height and load adjusted (has air suspension ever been a thing on AT bikes??). Lower height for city/tarmac, higher for off road. Lose the Frunk to accomodate increased fuel capacity yet maintain a low centre of gravity. Adjustable footpegs and windscreen. Keeping weight below 200kg is essential which would take some clever engineering but that’s what Honda does well when it wants to. What I’m requesting will increase development cost and so the sale price, but I’d pay more for a bike that delivers more because I would know it’s truely versatile and truely customisable. One size has never fitted all and as soon as the manufacturers start supporting that variation in riders, they will get a massive business spike. Most riders spend additional money to customise their rides, the vendors could cash in on that from the get go.
Can't use any name with 'trans' in it today, too controversial and divisive now. Africa Twin 800 sounds much better. Agree we want a lighter bike, no need for 200 HP offroading. Would be fine to see a 650-750cc modern engine with DCT.
I have been out of racing and riding for about six years now. I recently put the money down for a 2022 Husqvarna FE501S And I’m having heavier springs and better rubber as well as the Enduro engineering skid plate in the aftermarket Husqvarna halogen light. I think people will start buying more bare-bones street legal dirtbike’s as I don’t believe most people travel more than 70 miles from their home anyway
850cc ? What are they trying to do? Kill there current honda africa twin? A 650 with a target weight of possibly less than 200kg would be ideal with a 70hp engine. Something to compete with a Vstrom , realisticly above 180kg is a struggle to do proper offroading , fire roads and less complicated stuff are more ideal for that weight.
Been riding a 700 from Dec 2008 for a few months now, including a fairly intensive 500km charity event last weekend. Would love an updated version of it with a few more HP if it maintains weight and capabilities. And a bit more height for off-road would be great as well.
More dirt worthy mid-weight bike and as far the wheels. Tubeless with no matter what the rim is made of. Hopefully the price would come in around the $10-$12,000 USD mark.
