It's funny to see how people in the US see the Civic as an "entry-level" car. Here in Europe it isn't the most expensive car you can buy, but it isn't an entry-level either.
In general, I think we look at any non-luxury brand below a midsized sedan as an "entry-level car". Looking at the current small sedan line up, the Civic is one of the few cars that would fall into that category.
Yeah in developing countries like mine a Honda or a Toyota is pretty much the "high end" of the average consumer car market with European brands like Mercedes or BMW falling into the "super expensive luxury car" category even at their lowest end lol
I love all versions of the new civic, but I’m a huge driving enthusiast and I’ll just stick to my Si. It feels so raw and tuned for the road and I love it. Would love to get a type R when it comes out but I absolutely refuse to pay markups.
I love the Civic content! To me, the sedan looks more proportional, this gen hatch is a bit weird to me, especially at the rear. But the Integra looks right to me...
This is a great video, and one of several I've seen which weight the Civic ST against the Si. I just bought a new Civic Sport Touring hatch 6MT over a week ago, and have already put over 600 miles on it. I might have opted for an Si, but I went with the ST for a variety of reasons, some of which are covered in Tedward's video. --Heated leather seats are very comfortable, though I do wish they had lumbar support. --Dual zone auto-climate control, which is important in a car my wife and I will use for trips - she's usually chilly in the car and I'm warm. --Wireless phone charger (which works okay) --Better tech and a couple additional safety features. --It's a hatchback, and I love hatches. (My first Honda was a Civic Si hatch, and still my 2nd favorite car I've ever had.) --180 hp and 177 lb-ft of torque are enough for me for a daily driver. --The fuel economy so far is phenomenal, as I'm averaging over 35 mpg (with about half the miles so far being highway). --I got the Boost Blue, which was the color I wanted if I were to get a Civic hatchback. --It's still a manual, which I vastly prefer over any kind of automatic. --There are far fewer Civic hatches on the road compared to the sedan, and the Si looks like just another Civic sedan (not bad, of course, but had to tell the difference between the normal sedan and an Si). So my car stands out a little, especially in Boost Blue, and I like that. But there are drawbacks to buying the ST over an Si - again, as Tedward's video says. --Even without markup on either car, the ST hatch is $2-3K more expensive. --No LSD, which I've already found I wish I had. It's possible to upgrade, but it's not worth it for most people, including me. --The suspension is soft - too soft for me really, as I like to corner aggressively and the body roll in the corners is very noticeable. The ride quality overall is good, and fine for a GT car, and thankfully a beefier rear sway bar will reduce body roll. If I'd had a chance to test drive an Si, I might have gone with that car instead, because I do appreciate better driving dynamics, plus another 20 hp wouldn't hurt. But for me, now in my mid-50s, the more luxurious and feature-rich car was the way to go. It's still fun to drive, great on gas, looks amazing, and will be terrific for trips.
I just can't get excited over Honda any more. I've had 6 civics 2 brand new 3 si's a 94 and a 06. driven over 500k between just the last 2. give me 200 horses normal aspirated and a 8000 redline and 30 mpg all day long no matter how hard you drove it.
Have you driven the new one? Or the last gen even? I get that you prefer the old NA screamers, but are you throwing shade on the turbo out of principle alone or have you experienced it?
It sucks that the fake shifts are becoming standard for all cvts. When you're driving normally it's always in the perfect power band. The fake programmed shifts should be optional in a menu somewhere. As for the paddles they are only really useful for engine braking. I hope in the future cvts with paddles let you choose rpm within a slider instead of preset ratios.
I actually found the paddle shifters useful in the snow a handful of times both going up and downhill, to keep from having too much power (like staying in second in a manual). In general though, yeah, they really are only good for a quick engine brake on a long downhill slope.
Interesting to me you were searching for a 2.0L hatch 6mt. That’s what I have, and I’ve actually tuned it on 93, it’s nice man! 7500RPM rev limit, 4500rpm vtec. It’s fun, not a rocketship, but fun.
How can I go into adding similar modifications as you did? I’m getting into cars rn and plan on buying an SI and you saying it’s fun makes me interested as to what you did for upgrades??
Wow, I love the stubby front and rear overhangs and the way the hatch curves with the roofline. This is a really good looking car. Shame about all the road noise. I would have to put better tires on and Dynamat it.
It's surprising to me that even the top trim of the basic commuter these days is leagues above in quality and fit & finish of what were considered luxury vehicles 20 years ago.
Tech ology advances quickly! But it’s also worth noting that todays “budget” vehicles cost as much if not more than most of the “luxury” cars 20 years ago
as an old guy (68) I was planning on buying a 24 Civic SI but bought a 24 Civic Sport Touring Hatch with the 6MT ... for my purposes the hatch is more convenient than a sedan and at my age figured I better leave the Fanboy/BoyRacer stuff of the SI to a younger generation (I no longer drive at 10/10ths .... 9/10ths is good enough which the STH6 does well)... Thanks Keith Chicago IL
I’m super underwhelmed with my 2022 Si, I have been meaning to drive one of the more regular versions because I feel like my Si drives like about what I would’ve expected a Sport or one of the other models to drive like. Admittedly, I don’t have the summer tires but I can’t imagine they’d make that much of a difference though
I drove both back to back and the (hatch vs si) and the si out a smile on my face with the handling and low end torque. Both were nice and i was torn but i ordered an si for the better driving dynamic
Duuuuuuude, welcome to the PacNW! I extensively watched your videos on the '22 Civics and the '23 Integra but somehow missed this one until now. Ultimately, I chose the Integra ... but I go back to watch these videos wondering about the Civic! I would've gotten the Sport Touring Hatch... but I wanted the 200hp with all those creature comforts and the only place the get that was, as you know, in the Integra. I think I chose right for me though! Thanks for all your thoughtful reviews and comparisons!
Great vid but I’d love to know how the sport touring compares to the top trim Integra. The A spec without tech loses some of the features of the civic at the same price point and I wonder if it’s worth it over a civic
Next year change my 2020 Mazda3 sport GT AWD .... I need help for choice my new car. Mazda 3 sport GT AWD VW GTI DSG automatic CIVIC SPORT TOURING HB CVT in this video ??????????????????? Canada market for winter conditions.......
"Let's see how this thing gets off the line." Over a second of basically nothing happening. The lag on the CVT Civic is outrageous. The new Prius is going to do 0-60 faster than it, probably because the electric motor isn't waiting for a signal from HQ that says it's OK to accelerate.
Are you still mobbing about in the PNW? It'd be fun to meet up at a cars and coffee, or go on one of my favorite local roads around here! Perfect fodder for my '22 Si!
Hey ted, you should make a video sometime on what to do as a first time learner of driving, I think it would be helpful especially because I’m learning how to drive :)
I'm sorry but the hatchback looks way better than the sedan, holy crap. I didn't like these new gen civics because the rear of the car looked like an accord but this hatchback is literally perfect, other than no performance
idk I'm not totally sold on the hatch on my Type-R. The trunk on my 18 Si was surprisingly massive and I could put stuff in there for better or worse and forget about it. But.. I did fit a whole ass office chair in the Type-R so... lol
I thought the exact same thing. But I guess you can use to simulate down shifting on down hills. But yeah pointless for the most part. I have them and tried them out for a bit. Haven't touched them since.
God I wish I knew somewhere that was selling them without the markup. It’s absolutely insane that dealerships still want to charge a markup on a custom order that will never see their lots
@@UltimateTuner10 I bought one the end of April with an ETA of May/June. It was "in transit" for two weeks and now I'm told it's going to be a late July/early August build...still confused on that. But on the "bright" side I'm told it may be a 2023 now.
This model will be way better when they release the hybrid model later down the line. I live in Washington too! That road with the train looks very familiar 😂.
That’s why I have an Impreza hatch. That design is indisputably hatchback compared to its sedan design. When I searched for my new car I didn’t know the current gen Civic had a hatchback because the sedan looks so similar to the hatchback.
I still driving my Accord 7 2006. Do u think SI is lauder inside or a lot more stiffer than my old Accord? In Europe we have hybrid only, i want to get SI from Canada/USA, but I am bot able to test drive it :(. Also are SI seat confortable for 4 5 hours trip.
they should make the hatch more longer and more like liftback/sedan looking... then you dont need a sedan. Like a sedan that has the whole back opening.
@@peregreen1 the new Integra is literally this car. The Integra is only 5 inches longer it's not a big difference. They're talking about something like the RS7 and other types of cars that are sedans but have large hatchbacks
Aside from what other person said: for me swapping to quiet tires makes a big difference. Seems like every time I've bought a Honda, i have to take the crappy factory issue tires off and put on something decent because they cheap out.
Awesome ride Tedward. If I didn't have another 3 years of college to haul stuff back n forth this would have been my car. Instead I opted for the CRV SPT TRG!
I likely would have bought an Si if it had come in a hatch. Not complaining, though, as I paid less for my GR86 (in a similar color) than a 1.5T manual hatch.
That’s interesting…..the GR86 is a great car but you couldn’t get a civic si w a hatch so you went with less utility still? What was the thought process?
@@stms4411 The GR became available. I didn't like the previous generation and I didn't really want a Civic, I wanted an actually interesting or cheap hatchback with a manual and the Civic with its durably questionable and underwhelming 1.5T was about the closest thing that isn't a POS Hyundai or VW, though overpriced. Original option was a Maverick, but I'm a bit pissed at Ford right now, the waiting list is absurd, and the hybrid unavailable with AWD (I normally DGAF about AWD, but the reason for the truck at all would be to tow a small boat I haven't yet built). I fit a stealth hitch on the GR so I can carry bikes, leaving the only impractical part that affects me vs a hatchback is that I can't put kayaks on the roof (or wouldn't trust them with the aluminum roof). I can probably count on my hands how many times I had to put people in the back seats of my cars in the last 25 years and the '86 should cover those emergencies well enough.
@@mitchkelleher7972 you’re a complicated man lol. But I get it. I had two BRZs (the latter of the two was a 2017 that I sold in favor of the Si)….will probably get the brz again (or an 86), but I couldn’t get one so I didn’t want to wait a year. Plus my younger kid doesn’t drive yet and stuffing a field hockey goalie bag into a brz gets old. I don’t see the Honda as having durability questions, nor do I find it underwhelming. Different strokes. How do you like the gr?
@@stms4411 Yeah, I've never fit into any well-known genre, making it tough to sum me up in an elevator pitch. Honda had some issues with fuel diluting the oil and I believe carbon build up with the 1.5T, but I can't recall now. I also feel it's too small a displacement off boost for the weight and aero. It's not that I think they're junk, just not something I'd be enamored with. I love the GR. I liked my Focus ST a lot (until the head cracked at 180k thanks to some apparent Ford design or manufacturing issue with the 2.0T) and, while I miss the mid range torque and taller gearing, it was still a hatchback. The '86 feels special and it's fun even at cruising speeds, looking over the curved fenders like a classic sports car. Gets a lot more attention than I expected (I'm sure the bright blue doesn't help)-sometimes like I'm driving a Countach or something and I live where exotics aren't uncommon. I'm also getting in the low 30s for mileage, so I have no complaints.
@@mitchkelleher7972 yeah, I’m familiar with past problems in the 1.5L block. But a good manufacturer addresses their problems and minimizes the risk that they continue to present a problem….that’s historically Honda and I think that’s what we’ll see here. The max (or near max) torque is between 2k and 5k rpms in the civic so I’ve found it very useable. Glad you like the 86. I’ll drive one eventually and likely buy one in a couple of years. Best of luck with it and keep being a category killer. We need more of that.
I may be crazy but i want to cross shop this civic hatch with a manual and an RF miata as a daily lol. Heart says miata, brain says civic (MA winters in an rf seem so fun)
I dailied a 99 Miata for 5 years as my only car and look back on those days fondly. If you can, do it. You will not regret it for one moment. Get some winter tires and throw some weight in the trunk and you're good to go for the winter.
If you get an Si there's a 98% chance after a year that you will want a type R, I feel that way right now in my 10th gen si, I should have gotten one to begin with but didn't read on the issues with the L15. It's not the toughest engine but you can make decent power before internals need to be replaced with forged internals, only thing I hate on the 10th gen Si is the God awful Oem clutch, do yourself a favor and get a retrofit Fk8 type R clutch for your 10th gen si, 1000 smackaroos for the whole kit flywheel and everything 400 max torque load
@rabymejia6260 its good, it's nice and quiet when you have the stock airbox and such, makes pretty good power but a tune is recommended to get the most out of it, don't need any special mods just a ktuner and it comes with ots tunes, if you haven't had a 10th gen civic before the AC might be a problem but not for every car, mine is working fine with no issues. Only thing I mod on my cars is the engine..... suspension, wheels, tires etc are stock and it's still really comfortable minus the road noise from the low profile tires It needs. Active dampers for cornering also, I recommend you test drive tho rather than go off my opinion (:
I wish they would have made an SI hatchback because IMO it looks much better. I’m thinking of actually buying a hatchback sport and making my own SI out of it 🤔, is it worth it tho, I’ll have to figure that out lol
This is what I did. 2022 Sport Touring w/ HPD kit. Did a tune, stage 1 intake, and downpipe. Still feels luxurious while still having that power when needed.
Supposed to be, but good luck finding one. I think that with the supply chain issues, etc., they aren't actually producing any hatchback manuals. Certainly can't find any in the DC area or in Michigan.
