I think they are aim to tap into that market, there are plenty of people who want an Indian but want some thing bigger than the Scout but smaller than a touring model. The prices are higher than Harley but not high enough for it to be a deal breaker. for most.
@Mick Allen I think you’ll see a 108 mid sized variant in the not too distant future. That’s a fast motor in an 800+lb bike, it would be an absolute ripper in something 150lbs less!
Basic Chief is a good apple to apple comparison to softtail standard. Chief platform is the competition HD softail platform, imo. If I had a choice and the money Chief Dark Horse.
Great job comparing the two. I kept reading comments on the internet about how "Indian bikes are 5 to 6 thousand cheaper than Harley for the same bike". The moment I visited the Indian website, I suspected this was typical Harley-bashing bullshit, and I was obviously right.
I hear Indian dealers will deal and Harley dealers won’t but I know two people who have tried to trade on a challenger and could not make a deal with Indian and the accessories were a lot more expensive. 🤷🏼
One of the biggest problems stated over and over with Harley is their price. Indian just said “hold my beer and watch this” 😂 raised their prices on the other lines as well. I’m an Indian challenger owner in which I love, but it’s because it’s so different that all the other stuff. Liquid cooled, great suspension, there are reasons for a price hike, not so much with the others, In my opinion. This is a great video man, so descriptive and inclusive of all the products.
Yeah everyone complains about cost but in last 40 yrs it hasn’t changed much when you look at inflation and at one point there was a waiting list for Harley’s. I was really surprised these chiefs came out higher priced with a bike that is basically just on par and not particularly better. If you try and compare the bikes the price listed is even higher on the page, it looks like they cut the price some at the last minute and didn’t change it everywhere. I think they expected a bigger price increase from HD’s launch and had to adjust the price down at the last minute. I’m also concerned the rear suspension isn’t going be very good for 2 up riding...not much travel.
I find that Indian is pretty much about gimmicks and gadgets and falling into the same trap they fell into initially by constantly upgrading to the newest tech and ends up the dealerships have to carry so much stuck that when you need something its never in stock Indian is on a short term ride, enjoy it while you can I will never buy an Indian again, been there, done that and sold it a few years later. I find that Indian dealerships are made of of 90% or more of mom and pop shops which is exactly what Haley is targeting to close. I currently have 3 Harley's but i will never go back to Indian
On a side note Polaris steel framed bikes are nice pure motorcycles that allow the owner to minimally upgrade for a lot of return. Their Victory line was that way and now they have brought that over to Indian.
I almost bought my first Harley, Fat Bob. I bought a Super Duke 1290r instead. For the same price, European bikes offer more. Lighter, faster(no need Stage 4), TFT screens, Led everywhere, Stabiity control with IMU, adjustable shocks. and the list goes on.
I was a bit shocked that most of their pricing was higher than Harley. My only dislike is the short fenders front and rear. Fortunately the spoke wheel models use tubeless tires. I have read these are already on demo trucks.
Awesome, hopefully I can ride a Super Chief or Super Chief Limited this spring! I wonder if they anticipated Harley to raise their prices more than they did when they decided on the pricing structure. The definitely aren't trying to bet them on price alone but they may negotiate more than HD will.
Harley's pricing is what killing them and Indian decided to follow Harley's footstep. I was really excited for the chief until I saw the price that they are going for 🤦♂️
@@huynhxuanviet9818 this isn’t new, Harley has been this expensive for 40 years when looking at Inflation. They were this expensive in the 80’s when there was a waiting list to buy one. I had a friend try and buy a challenger last year and Indian was to high after fees, inflated accessories cost, etc... the scout I road was about $14k and it was a nice bike but it wasn’t cheaper than HD either...pricing may hurt them in hard economic times but I think a shift in trends and consumer base is more the cause then anything else.
@@RidingintheOzarks Interesting, I think I agrees with your argument. As a 20 year old male riding a CB500F, I just can't bring myself to purchase a 20 thousand dollar bike with less option than a 5000 dollar Japanese or Euro starter bike. Looks and feels of an American V-twin is cool and all but for me it just not worth it because other brands offer so much more for what you pay. With that money I would rather buy a Goldwing or a Rocket instead, that's not even mentioning other non cruisers like naked or adventure touring bikes with arguably better ergonomic for long days on the saddle.
Nicely done and love how you broke down the Chief and their options. I do like the new display but seems kinda small but then again I’d have to see it in person. 👊😎
I see nothing in either Harley or Indian's lineup that makes me want to trade in my '14 Road King. On February 22 the Pan America will be revealed. That has my attention. Will it make me want to trade in my '18 Africa Twin? Doubtful. It will take Harley 4-5 years to get the bugs worked out and I am not dropping $20,000 to be their guinea pig.
I wonder if the ride modes will be just the power delivery from the engine or if it will be suspension as well? Because if it includes automatic suspension adjustments like sport or comfort or passenger to 1up. I can tell you that that makes a huge difference when you're riding the twisties. Engine power curve I don't care that much about as long as it's not neutered.
Well done Mike. I’m looking forward to test riding one to compare to my Dyna. With 110 or 120 ft lbs of torque it’ll feel like a rocket compared to mine. Keep it up man!
Did a demo today that chief bobber/dark horse 116 gets it! I like the bobber personally with the forward controls a little more comfortable but that seat on both has to be changed asap. As far as the touch screen speedo worked great no problems but a bit overkill on the information and a bit confusing to navigate on the fly. Overall this bike will be a great bike to customize and make your own. Definitely a fan!
I’ve had two HD’s. The last one I bought new was a 2014 Fatboy. Haven’t had a motorcycle since 2017. Wasn’t really wanting another for some reason. Wife wanted to ride again, not into metric bikes so back to Harley. I paid too much for my Fatboy. What they are asking for them now was insane. And they dumped a lot of lines since my last bike and made some changes I’m not all that fond of. I found an Indian dealer that wasn’t too far away... I’m not a bagger (geezer bike) guy. So I bought a Scout. I love that bike. It is such a well made bike with my only complaints being it’s too small (even though it’s really just super low. It’s parked in the garage next to my sons FatBob and it’s only shorter, same length) and the tank is abysmal. I hit 120 miles and the lights on. It’s too new so I don’t poke that bear thinking I have 50 miles left... You are so correct when you say it’s your money, but what YOU want. I love my scout but wish I had waited 6 months (Chief is out in a couple of months). HD may list a price, but the dealer gives you the finger and says “this is the price”. Then gives you the finger. Harleys got problems and I don’t think it will be solved by a battery powered bike that no one wants except for a small group of eco-weirdos who don’t have jobs. Less chrome. More cruisers. Lower your damned prices. Until then, Indian seems to want to sell me a motorcycle. HD does not.
The Indian motorcycles are good bikes But I prefer The Amazing Harley Davidson motorcycles which have always been my favorite Motorcycles!!, I believe that the Harley Davidson motorcycles are much more prettier than the Indians, so no doubt at all The Amazing Harley Davidson Motorcycle it's my favorite Motorcycle!!!, Thanks for sharing!!!
It feels like to me Indian is always trying to copy Harley, and be better then they are. How you compared the models proves it. You did a good job comparing the models
I think the Chief models look great, Indian did a nice job with them and I feel like they'll sell very well. I'd still pick a comparable Harley over them though.
What a fantastic video...not only in the comparisons nut all the content. If I (Rich) was in the market for that size bike, it would be the Super Chief Limited, But...I may also get the HD because ABS is standard. Great video Mike. Yeah we live life to the fullest and don;t care what other negative people think. Peeeeece!
Indian looks better in chrome having no ugly radiator distracting from the ascetic, but Harley still has more brand value for picking up women... Have to pick the advantage in getting women over the better looks of the Indian... Indian also needs better pipes to be better looking, while Harley factory pipes are acceptable... I suppose just removing the Indian name off the gas tank may be the best solution.
Yep, you called it last week! I saw these bikes and got excited!😜🤪 especially with the display and tech! Then I started digging and realized that the commercial is a little deceiving. Only “some” models get the fancy tech and they don’t tell you what the others have? Also, these are all of them, the exact same motorcycle, with some different mods on each. Which is fine, but to me, that hardly brings any serious competition to the soft tails? I can see them competing with a few on the STs but man, the STs are all just very different and distinct bikes from one another. And the modern tech stops completely with the display and cruise control. Still air cooled, v twin, American cruisers, with nothing modern in the engine area. I’m somewhat disappointed because I know Indian is so much more capable than this. The scout and the FTR are something different and modern. These bikes are trying to be but in the end they just fall short IMO.
I think Indian just wanted to compete and not beat, save money on features and R&D. I really think it is not more than 2 models with different trims, bars, pegs/floorboards/detachable windshields...
The display has lots of different modes. They already stated you can set it to just speed and RPM that looks like a traditional clock. Which is what you will probably have it in most of the time.
Yup! You said it “if you’re going to buy a bike, test ride it” With so many new riders coming into this wonderful sport of motorcycling. Coupled with older riders no longer enslaved to a brand for whatever reasons be it the new M8 motor lacking the feel of previous generation Harley VTwin mills, or a manufacturers unwillingness to add value in technology, suspension , and comparable handling stock as compared to the competitions stock offerings. We can go on and on but the reality is consumers have access to more information then ever before. And when your selling heritage you better be selling it to someone who cares about that kind of stuff. And unfortunately recent sales and growing trends may not favor what heritage seems or appears to represent. Nice video and allow me to add that this video as do all I suspect really represent the creators interpretation. I myself am guilty of this as well. Thanks again. I love your channel and look forward to watching.
Man , I do dig your attitude, and your thought process. The comparison of the machines was dead on , and yes , a personal choice is what it is all about. Ride safe, and live life on your terms.
I agree with sluf, you have great content. My long statement in the comments had more to do with my feelings toward HD Dealerships (NC, FL, GA) along with the direction the company is going. Thank you for this video, you do great work!
Love the closing statement brother! I'm curious if there is or is going to be a Riding in the Ozarks group ride anytime soon? I'm from north MO and would love to meet and ride with you.
I am working on stuff, Lake Ozark Harley Davidson is having an event on May1st but no details on it yet so not sure what we can do at it but I have reached out to them and waiting to hear back. I will be at and working Memorial day weekend at the Mid America Freedom Rally in Buckhorn MO. I am going to try and plan a meet up and Ride during Bikefest this year for sure. I post rides and event on Facebook so you can follow on there for more realtime info also.
Hey Mike, I subscribed a long time ago, and I usually hit the like button before I even watch the video. Those new Indians are awfully pretty, but I'm worried about a guy like me with BIG hands trying to hit the right button while riding. I know, I know, they're gonna say, "well you should wait until you are stopped", but really, who does that? I'm a big fan of your channel. Thanks. Eric in Kissimmee Fl.
Thank you Eric I’m glad you enjoy the channel and really appreciate the support! I would rather be in FL today high of 9 here and looking at -9 for low this week
The way I see it..They look like proper modern tastefully work of art cruisers..The Harley are still hanging on 1980's1990's styling and ride quality. Another annoyance is Harley's oh so intuitive 3 fluid changes, it's quiet frankly a pain in ass after all this years...
Hmm, I noticed all the Harley comparisons used were with wire spoke wheels ..Yikes! not for me.. but for Indian, I see they incorporated the same rear shock geometric design they use on the scout (which I think looks ok, but is my opinion sub standard for shock reduction & ride control and comfort) as the scout.. dang it anyway.. I believe they been better suited with a hidden mono shock in the rear. I been banging a drum for Indian to improve that rear shock design ever since I first read about the Scout too, and now its on the Chief. I also see that same styless front rear brake reservoir riding high on the handle bar..ditto Indian. I'm wondering if the non-LCD display bike will still have the ride modes(?) I'm also thinking the LCD display might be hard to read on bright or sunny days..lets see.. Indian could have up the game by mating that engine with a both-side dually exhaust.. thanks for the informative video
Go to another dealer, my dealer is a no fee MSRP strictly dealer. The mark up is a dealer issue HD needs to address but there are dealers that do MSRP, and did less before the new CEO cracked down on them, now I see stuff like buy a bike at MSRP and get $500 in a gift card for HD. Sorry your local dealers are gouging....
@@RidingintheOzarks I would never buy from my local Harley dealerships unfortunately. I really wanted to but I ended up getting a Yamaha Bolt for my first new bike purchase(always bought used before). I'm hoping for a local indian dealership. Hopefully soon as I am in need of an upgrade.
@@TheDans7300 I love the FTR for power, working on editing my first ride on it soon. That said I know people tried buy a challenger and couldn’t make a deal on it, with accessories they were higher than the road glide... good luck !
Your videos are great, I admit and I’m sorry first time I thought you where a stereotypical fan boy (before seeing any video) and came with a great surprise and good points. Thanks for the video
Thanks for checking the channel out and being open minded to see. I love my Harley but that doesn't mean they do everything right and that other bikes aren't as good.
Great comparisons! As a Harley fan Indian really has my attention with these new models however the new Street Bob seems like a great value. BTW all about that fan sleep!
Thanks for the comparison bro. I’m currently looking to trade or sale my 2019 883 iron. To upgrade and the low rider s is on my radar. Well that was until I saw the Indian Chief. But now I’m back on board with Harley thanks to your video. The low Rider s and the fat bob is my bike. Great video !
Not a big fan of the new bike, but I think the new gauge is the best part. I could care less about riding modes and cellphone crap, but I do like the way the new bike GPS's just show which way to turn. Much better than trying to look at spaghetti maps. Having that in a speedo that's up on the bars and easy to see is brilliant. I don't know what people find so interesting on the gauges. I typically know if I'm speeding or not without needing confirmation. The one thing that kinda ticks me off a little about HD putting them on the tank is that checking the turn signals is a bit of a PITA. I give them a bit of a pass as they're auto cancelling though.
Why are not all bikes TS auto cancelling... I can always look in the review mirror on group rides and spot the Hondas cause the Turn is still blinking LOL
I don’t know about Indian, but with HD, you can take the MSRP and add about $5000 to get what you will actually pay. There is NO soft tail going for MSRP.
I have seen them advertised at MSRP around here I’m sure they are going add setup fees and freight crap but so does Indian. I will be near a dealer this weekend and price one and see what they tell me...
Great job with the video Mike! I completely understand people like what they like and that’s cool..but all I see myself (and I’m not trying to argue anything!) is Indian bringing out another bike that looks exactly like a Harley Davidson. That’s just my personal take on it. Thanks again for another great video! Shiny Side Up! 🤘🏻🇺🇸
I am still not sure this isn’t 2 bike with different bars and wheels and pegs/floorboards honestly. On significant change in models are engine size and display... thanks!
Aimed at softail market, sure. I think that its gunning for the market that have been begging Harley to bring back an improved dyna line and been dismissed.
Love my softail low rider s. Only thing I like on chief is the digital guage. Wish HD come up with something like this. With dark horse , throw some 14 inch t bar, tsport fairing n 2 up seat. I ll take it as a second bike. Lol
These are great looking motorcycles but Indian isn't going to take HD business until they are at least just under HD pricing. People who are going to buy these want HD styling but not a HD. I give Indian props for doing some new things in the tech department and I want to check out that new display to see how good it is when riding.
I agree that is why I really only touched on pricing and engine in this video... I may do some comparing on specific model and all the specs later especially after getting to ride one.
You, my friend, are exactly right. It is one of the reasons I bought a Victory over a Harley. More bike for less, made in the USA, great styling, it flowed better than the Harley because it was purpose built like a custom. They offered me a 1000 dollar rebate off the top for military veterans. There were no Harley equivalents stock at that price of 12,000 with the same performance. Indian should do the same thing here, same parent company.
@@semperfipar1299 just a question but do you think Polaris bought the Indian name to sell more bikes by volume or because they felt they could charge more under the Indian brand? I bring this up because of you comment, if they offered stuff like this under victory name why not now unless they were losing money on Victory Brand? I mean if they could build a better bike cheaper before why not now unless they were losing money and under the Indian name they are going charge more to stay profitable? What is your thought?
@@RidingintheOzarks Well, I have not really looked into the history but I think they always wanted to buy Indian from the start. Could not do it then started up Victory as a Indian clone or what Indian should be in the modern world as compared to Harley. The Indian brand at that time was a just a Harley knock off and it was way over priced. Today I think they bought the name t sell more bikes because of the name history. Pay scales have not really gone up in seven years but they are coming in just under Harleys. Maybe Polaris underpriced the Victory line because they were not profitable on paper plus they never marketed the name. It almost looks like Victory was an R&D line. Now they have perfected the machine in the Indian brand.
I like some elements of the Chief but not all......in my humble opinion they missed the mark in some areas. They should have used an aluminum frame, mono shock suspension for the rear, inverted suspension with dual disk brakes for the front and lastly a larger 5 gallon gas tank.
Those things all sound great but reality is that also probably means higher price tag and in this case I think they want to be competitive with HD and really aren't shooting for a better bike at a higher price tag, just my opinion...
You just described a Victory Judge with the exception of the aluminum frame which would probably crack under the engine load unless it was beefed up to handle the load.
I think the next move will be putting a power plus engine in it. On a side note I already own this bike and it is seven years old, Victory Judge. It is already a dark horse with a Matt finish and black engine and frame. I still get compliments everywhere I ride it. The only difference is the analog indicator with digital display in the bottom. I bet I could by that four gallon tank and bolt it right on. I think the pricing might be steep because I paid 12,000 in 2013 for my Judge after a 1000 dollar military discount. It is a great bike! Polaris does this with Indians. The lineup of a model is pretty much the same bike with the exception of color options and some electronic gadgetry but other than that they are virtually the same. I do not think that justifies the markup between the same model bikes. Sometimes you can live with the limited color options of the lesser model and do the upgrade from the factory and still come out less than the marked up model in the dark horse. Play around with the build your bike application on the website. I discovered on the Indian website that I could build the base model challenger into a performance touring bike for less than their top of the line touring bike and come out on top with more performance. I only sacrificed color options and some bolt on creature comforts not that important.
Personally the Display is the only thing I find interesting, but not paying extra for it when I prefer chrome over the dark so I would have go all the way up to the super chief limited. Which is higher than what I paid for my Street Glide 5 yrs ago...
I like the tech in the higher trims but most of that is on my phone any way. I'll just do what I'm already doing and mount the phone. I really just want to know the my speed, RPMs and low fuel. I'm worried the 4" screen would get cluttered with stuff I don't need to know or be annoying with juggling between it and my phone. On top of that, I'd rather spend my money on mods to make it my own.
To be fair Im from UK I don't get why one firm need to destroy the other I ride the scout my mates have got sportster my point is choice peeps need to work if one company goes then peeps are out of work in a time of when jobs are abit worrying is one better than the other at end of day we know what we like so we ride our choice ps have had harleys myself I found the scout so much easier all round
Euro standards are higher, I think it is truly a cultural difference. To be honest outside of ABS I don’t want any of those safety features, only riding mode I would use as an experienced rider is one gives me the most power. I see on super sports or for new riders where riding modes has value but not on my 850 pound touring bike with less than 100 hp. Of course I have never had them so I speaking without experiencing them so my thoughts maybe flawed but I don’t see the value for me...
I noticed the changes in technology HD is doing with their new lineups...some of them. Indian was competing with HD, and now it seems HD is competing with Indian on performance/technology game....inverted forks, dual front disk, ect. Anyone who’s has ridden both brands knows what the F I’m talking about. Of course we all have are favorites which I do as well in both lineups.
So, basically every single one of the Indian's are more expensive, the accessories are more expensive, and there is a marginal at best increase in performance, dealers are few and far between with service prices that are more than Harley dealers in many cases (plus the extra gas to get to a dealer since there are fewer) and people will still say Harley is overpriced.
Yeah I think you nailed it but I have got a lot of comments these chiefs are to expensive as well. HD has been this expensive for 40+ years.... I think this will be focus of a video in the future as well.
Well as a plug to Polaris products their bikes are more reliable than Harleys so dealerships are not that required as the Harley must be ridden from dealer to dealer (just joking). I own a Harley and my worst experience was with the dealerships.
@@FranBunnyFFXII I'm sure they will make changes to this platform as needed. Just like they did with the FTR. I'm really hoping they will add dual front disk brakes.
Not trying to argue but what aspect do you think is better, styling, engine, service? I want to understand the your view point because I didn't see much to pull me toward Indian over HD except the Display and Riding modes and have serious concern about the rear suspension... it might be fine but travels seems like it might be an issue to me.
@@RidingintheOzarks styling is definitely more attractive in my opinion. I'd take the basic Chief over the Softail Standard in a heartbeat. Those are the two bikes I would consider buying myself. I'm not really digging the spokes on the Harleys the mags on the chief make it look as cool as a Lowrider S at a more reasonable price. The engine itself looks beautiful a friend had a Chief Classic and I always admired the engine design. Harley davidson locally always markes up their motorcycle prices. I have never seen any of their bikes sell for MSRP prices. The Indian dealerships I've looked into are straight up no bullshit. Example I live in South Texas one Harley dealerships (McAllen) has a 2019 Sportster 883 marked up to $12,381. A used bike for that price.. honestly I'll take the new Chief 👍 Harley Davidson does itself a huge disservice when they have dealerships like that. It is just so off-putting. I feel that's why Indian is on its way up and Harley is floundering.
@@TheDans7300 thanks for taking the time to share, sorry the dealerships there are so bad, here I see 2019 sportster on the floor waiting for a home at MSRP. I know dealerships are not the same everywhere and bad ones hurt the brand.
@@RidingintheOzarks I appreciate your videos keep them coming. I really wanted a Harley a few years ago and was finally able to afford one after working for it for a few years. But I couldn't justify buying a 3 year old Sportster at the time for way more than a brand new Yamaha Bolt. Now I'm looking for a second bike and if they had been fair back then I would probably be buying a second Harley Davidson from them now instead of looking at the Chief.
I was confused thinking you were referring to me in video and then realized maybe you meant on Indians website. And I see what you mean theDark horse was higher too. I suspect Indian must have lowered the prices last minute after HD Launch to try be more competitive I expect they thought he was raise prices more then they did.... nice catch!
@@RidingintheOzarks you got it 👍 it was just something I noticed on the Indian website. I wonder what the official sticker price will be! Awesome video as always 👍 cheers!
I've never been a fan of the Indian styling. They've had good tech and mechanicals, but I just can't get over the looks. Comparing the Chiefs to the Softails is pretty even. Basically the same price, power, and look...but I was very surprised that nearly all of the Chiefs are slightly heavier than a comparable Softail (according to the spec wet weight). For me personally, I don't really want a new HD or Indian....I'm pretty happy with my old $4k Road King.
Wow~ the Dark Horse checks all the boxes for me and a few I didn't think of. I can't figure out if the Chief is on the Scout frame or if it's completely different~ do you know? Thank you~
They day of reckoning for HD is here now. I worked for HD 20 years ago & warned them back then that they were developing too slowly & new new bike makers were running right by them, especially in powertrains~ they were unconcerned. The Chief is going to add to the nightmare that Indian is giving them. The next nightmare will be an Indian Trike.
Base chief is 670 pounds wet which is a huge reduction from the 830 pound plus Springfield and Chieftain derivatives. Suppose to be available in April, however a friend down on the Treasure Coast of Fl Indian dealer had a demo model that he got to test on Friday. Feels small but well sorted and plenty of power. Good advice on 10 minute youtubes. Those Victory non buyers are not that large a crowd. I own a Cross County and would have no qualms buying an Indian. There are videos out of the Ride Command. It is easy to use and has a lot of interest. It will be interesting to see which new cruiser sells more, the new Rebel 1100 or Indian Chieftain line. The rebel packs a more tech and a 6 degrees more of lean angle and 80 and more pounds less, and 5 to 8 thousand dollars less. Or will it be the Indian which should feel like an American cruiser. I am in the market for a mid size cruiser and will check out both. Like your vids Mr. Ozark.
Thanks did you see my vid a few months ago on the Rebel and Sportster? I think the Rebel is hard to beat on specs but it isn’t very attractive IMO. My dealer will have Rebel on 28th we think so will be doing a walk around at least next month
@@RidingintheOzarks Indeed I did see it and commented. Attractive is subjective, but the Indian looks better to me. I have owned 7 Hondas in my life and liked them all.
Harley riders are different! Someone buys something else to be different from all the Harleys out there... Hey, that’s different, you’re supposed to be like us! 😂 Everyone find the ride that speaks to you and ride it! ✌🏼
You, like most H-D guys spent way too much time on price. And the display isn't the only difference that distinguishes the bikes. How about ground clearance, fuel capacity, options, etc? You could have spent your time on each of these instead of running down the price differences of the various models. It just muddled the presentation.
I said this wasn't meant to be a full comparison of models and all the specs, that wasn't what I wanted to do in this video, I can do all those comparisons but to do it right is going to take more time and I might do that in the future. I touched on the pricing because I found it interesting they were more expensive, and their is nothing wrong with that if you find value in the differences but I wasn't expecting that. Why do you think the price isn't as important or more than any other aspect? Maybe I am price sensitive cause all I hear in the comments is how Harley's are to expensive but they have been to expensive for 40 years... The chief all have the same fuel tank and the Harleys vary but without MPG that doesn't mean a lot yet... the softails have more rear suspension travel, the Chief has riding modes which is just throttle response changes so I have been told....sorry you didn't find the same things interesting that I did.
Since H-D went to the M8 engine, which neither feels or sounds like a Harley engine, I would not even consider buying a new Harley big twin. If you don't get the Harley feel and sound, why pay for it? OTOH, I have noticed that Indian has abandoned the traditional Indian front fender on their big bikes, and that fender would be my only reason for buying an Indian, since they don't really have any feel or sound either. Yet they cost almost as much as Harleys. I would either buy a pre 2016 Harley, or a Japanese bike, like the Kawasaki Vaquero, and save a fortune. I don't pay for brand names. If they don't have what I want, I go elsewhere.
I had no clue they went to a new engine. I thought the Milwaukee was their new engine. Guess I haven't paid much attn. Still riding my 2006 Twin Cam 88ci Heritage Deluxe. Never been in a shop yet.
@@thevoyer2002 They don't have a new engine besides the Milwaukee 8, commonly called the M8. I test rode one not long after it came out. I was extremely disappointed. If I hadn't known it, I would have never thought I was on a Harley. There was no feel, and very little sound. In fact it was so quiet that the gear whine was very pronounced. Reminded me a lot of the Honda Goldwing I used to have. My EVO powered Harleys have that Harley "shake" and with an aftermarket exhaust, they also have the Harley sound. The one H-D tried to trademark 20 years ago. There is just no way I would pay a Harley price for a bike that did not have the Harley sound and feel. The Sportster is the only Harley left that actually feels like a Harley should, and with aftermarket pipes it does still sound like a Harley. If H-D gets rid of it, they will no longer have anything that feels or sounds like a Harley. The Sportster would likely sell a lot better if H-D made versions of it with bright shiny paint, chrome, and polished aluminum. The only models of the Sportster they currently make are all blacked out. Older riders like me (62) don't much care for that.
@@FranBunnyFFXII I only test rode the stock M8. It was smooth as silk and barely had any sound at all. I have no idea what aftermarket parts can do for it. IMO, if you can actually see anything in the mirrors, you are not on a Harley. But one thing I do know, is if you have a new one, and you replace cams, or exhaust, or both, you have to retune the ECU. And doing that voids the engine warranty. The stock TC has a lot of issues, but it does feel and sound pretty much like a Harley should. I'm still trying to figure out what moron decided to put a counterbalancer in the M8 and why. Yes I know all about the TC-B, and never understood why they built that either. They claimed that is was necessary for models with solid mount engines, like the Softail models. But the EVO powered solid mount Softail models did not have or need a counterbalancer. However, the 'balanced" version of the TC still had a lot more Harley feel than the M8. H-D claims the counterbalancer in the M8 eliminates over 70% of it's vibration. WHY would they want to do that??? My EVO powered 1989 FXRS Low Rider has a rubber mounted engine, and it will shake your teeth out, the way a Harley should.
For me it’s looks and I think the chief line looks too bulbous. Like Suzuki’s cruiser line. But that’s just my taste. Nothing to do with quality of the bikes.
Don't tell, I haven't had time to do a video on it yet but another league started a HD vs Indian Race league and has a class for these kind of bikes not just Baggers. Stay tuned
Well some would argue they are comparable to HD. Are the softail just as over priced in your opinion? I personally think they needed to undercut HD to pull customers from HD but some people feel HD is doing that job for them.
@@RidingintheOzarks yeah the soft tails are overpriced as well. The soft tail standard and the street bob Are the lowest priced softails but they are pretty much bare bones when it comes to features.
Love the look of these bikes and love that it brings options. Am surprised they went air cooled, and that dash should be standard. Your last point is spot on, ride the bike you like and stop being all judgmental. Bikes will have a drastic change over the next years. The 'not a real Harley/its a girls bike/etc' generation are dying, emissions, other regulations and the younger generation will kill fossil fueled motors.
I know the point you’re making but I think that’s still a long way off here in the Midwest we have virtually no infrastructure for EV vehicles, there’s one charging station in my town and that’s only because I live on the interstate and there wouldn’t be one here. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@RidingintheOzarks Good point, completely different where I live, a charging station are more common here, a lot of different supermarkets have them for example.
And to be honest some younger and newer riders don't care about Made in the USA or the History and Heritage...I am not saying that is good ort bad just a fact.
@@RidingintheOzarks I am a younger(ish) rider and I still care about the made in USA part. It was HD or Indian only for me. Whoever gives me more bang for my scratch in whatever segment I’m looking at gets my business. Give a rats ass about what name is on the tank. Last two bikes Indian gave me more for my dollar.
If I do a real comparison I will cover all that kind of stuff, I just wanted to talk about what they released and how it stacks up at a glance, the point was really that they appear to be really trying to come after the HD softails with this release and wanted to see at a high level how they look on price. I think that helped make the realization that these bikes are really targeted at these particular softails and not by accident.
So Indian decided since HD can't sell bikes anymore (over-priced) lets make bikes just as expensive with less functionality since hey HD is the role model. Sadly Indian has become another over priced bike manufacturers and why Honda new Rebel 1100 under 10k with ABS Cruise control ride modes as standard will sell ton of them. Shame average guy like me making 50k a year can't afford bike starting at 16k.
It will be interesting to see these bikes in the flesh .Indian have really upped their game over the last few years their bikes offer more tech than HD riding modes, big touchscreen navigation and a much more modern engine set up. I have to admit I have had problems with their styling I don’t get the brown seats and tassels but these new bikes look appealing. Price wise in the UK the Indians are again more expensive than the roughly equivalent Harley but the biggest problem they will have is the lack of dealerships. I can get to 4 Harley dealerships in about 40 miles Indian only have 15 in the country the nearest is 40 miles away.
I don't have a dealer for either closer than 80 mile and Indian is actually 100 miles. In this case I don't see this motor as more modern, it air cooled and doesn't out perform the M8 in a meaningful way IMO. Other then the display and Rider modes I didn't see anything about the bike to draw me in. I am only talking about these models not Indian in general. If they came in under HD's MSRP with bikes that were roughly equivalent I think they will sell and with HD not discounting they still may beat HD on price when you go to buy one... I had a friend try to trade an HD in on a Challenger and the accessories and add on's really added up and they couldn't make a deal... Hope you get to go take a demo ride on one and see how they are in the flesh... Nothing beats riding a bike the rest is just words..
They have a long way to go, last year HD sold 5 times as many units as Indian it was a bad year for HD cause they held inventory down and moved the launch date and it was almost a record year. I am not knocking Indian but they have a long way to go to be the death of Harley Davidson. Harley hurts themselves more than Indian does...
After having Harleys and foreign bikes both...all my life...I'd have to say I'd not buy American again if buying brand new. I'd go with the most proven reliable bike out there, a Yamaha, and it would be a cruiser. Just my personal choice.
@@twistieslayer3592 oh wow, had no clue. That Bolt doesnt impress me personally one bit. I'd then go with a Yamaha Adventure bike. Best of both worlds on and off road.
@@thevoyer2002 Yamaha makes some quality bikes that are priced well. Their only flaw is they aren’t as fuel efficient as other brands. If I had to buy a Yamaha it’d be the Tenere 700 or the MT-10.
Indian is just finishing up packing down the dirt on top of Harleys grave. Only took them a few years to dig it. Harley is not good value. Their tech and ESPECIALLY ENGINES are weak and dated. The 1200cc makes 59 horsepower. The FTR1200 makes 136hp. BMW has a SCOOTER that makes 63hp. They aren't fooling anybody charging 40% more than what their product is worth. Made in Mexico with China imported parts.
And yet the put thunderstroke engines in these bikes that at best are comparable to M8 engines, priced them higher than harley, charge more for accessories, have less options than hd aftermarket. Don’t get me wrong the FTR is a great bike but don’t act like this announcement is a nail in the coffin for Harley Davidson, in my eyes it’s an eye-opener that Indians no better... the 4 in display is only thing noteworthy other than higher prices.
@@RidingintheOzarks in most peoples opinion Harleys casket has been nailed shut for a while. Any Indian review video is packed full of ex-harley owners singing praise about their Indian. By the hundreds. The specs of an equivalent Indian motor outshine the HD counterparts. 1200cc HD motor makes less than 60hp. In fact, BMW has a moped that makes more... HD needs to innovate, adjust pricing or keep losing clients, as they have been faster by the year. Its more than a display that marks the difference. HD has had quality control issues and handling, performance and maintenance wise the Indian is a better bike, the common consesus of that applies well beyond only my opinion.
@@jordanjoestar8839 if it was most people Harley wouldn’t be out selling them 5 to 1... I am not knocking Indian they are providing competition. But let’s not rank youtube comments on Indian videos over actual sales numbers. Most Happy harley owners aren’t watching or commenting on those videos.
@@RidingintheOzarks the 5 to 1 argument does not stand. HD sales are -53% from last year, while Indian has gained 7% annually and often more. This trend has been set for years now and at this rate HD is in trouble. Its very easy to see from business analytics.
@@FranBunnyFFXII Harleys market share is slipping, the revolving door of new CEO's trying to save the company is telling. Thier warrant threats, gross sales tactics, predatory finance programs and use of Hollywood chumps like Aquaman to pimp their products have been a real turn-off for buyers. The current iteration of Indian, backed by the most successful Powersports Manufacturer in America is gaining traction and market share. HD have become a sad parody if their former glory and a lot of people are seeing that now. I still think they make some great bikes (Fat Bob & Lowrider S are my faves) but people want something different. It will be interesting to see what the market is like 10 years from now.
@@FranBunnyFFXII We have all heard reports that the M107 is a dog......nobody has ever said that about the TS111....these engines are not the same. I'll decide what the best bike is for me, thanks 🤣. Again, see the transitioning market share to get an idea of who the buyers are siding with.
@@gigi9467 I think motorcycle are expensive, my grandpa told me something is only worth what you can get someone to pay for it, he was an old horse trader, I never forgot that. If Indian can sell them at those prices then it is worth it to someone just not me.. with supply chain issues I don’t think anyone cares to compete on price cause supply is low…
@@RidingintheOzarks yea i get it, but its gonna be tough at least for what i have seeen thei sales numbers are not great in comparison to harley, personally i believe they shoukd be priced the same or if they really want to sway harley riders prices them cheaper! But what do i know right
@@gigi9467 that’s the thing I don’t think they could produce enough bikes to make an impact even if priced cheaper. Polaris reported low sales due to supply chain constraints in 3rd qtr report for motorcycle segment so why sell cheaper if your selling everything you can make… maybe when supply chain gets back to normal but not right now…
