2024 Bard Subclass Tier Ranking for D&D 5e 

I think the dance bard’s unarmed attack is a distraction to what it’s actually good at: defending themselves and the party. The attack is just a fun little bonus.

I'm 4 sessions in on a College of Dance Bard and I'm having a blast. She is a Drow who was trafficked to a big city as a child and sold into an indentured servitude of sorts. When I pick her spells, instead of just grabbing all the meta gaming selections, I've been selecting options that are primarily Enchantment/Illusion focused, and can in some way be traced back to "dance" as her art form. Got a DM that rewards story telling over power gaming so that helps. 10/10 would recommend the Dancer.

When I think of a dance bard, all I can think of is a capoeira fighter. It's so absolutely fitting I can't believe it's not on purpose

I think the Mantle of Inspiration is one of the most underrated abilities to all bard subclasses. For the price of a single bardic inspiration, you can potentially reposition your entire party. It costs a reaction, but its movement and THP, that is on par with the amount of thp a twilight cleric can give out per short rest. Thisone feature has turned the tides of entire combats with that repositioning alone in my games.

To recall what Monty & Kelly gave to the Bard Subclasses for D&D 5e 2014 : College of Glamour : B College of Lore : S College of Valour : B

I've been a primary bard player for a long time. I think that dance bard isn't made to be a melee combatant. Its made to be a support caster with melee capabilities. At the end of the day Bard is supposed to be a jack of all trades. Its reaction to move and the ability to add bardic inspiration to initiative i think is much more understated. Especially since you can get unarmed strikes as a reaction without provoning Aoo. Its incredibly strong for level 1-4 in damage, by the time you reach level 5 when everyone gets extra attack you will probably be focusing more on spells anyways. Not to mention you can get a additional bardic off of spell slots now so you can do it more often.

I think the focus on the bard's unarmed strike was too narrow, Dudes. They get other features and abilities too. They get the unarmoured defense, and with two stats they're most likely going to focus on anyways, they grant massive initiative buffs to their whole party, they get Evasion for themselves and allies withing 5 feet of them, which if they're frontlining they likely have at least one or two most often. I also think their unarmed strikes fall away from being something they'd consider for primary attacks by the time other classes get extra attack, so the bardic inspiration punch is probably the most it'll really get used, they'll likely start sticking with spells by then because they do better damage or have a bigger influence on the battle. I think it's a B tier already. Besides, Giving it extra attack would take away from the Valor bard and the monk. If you really want an extra attack on a dance bar take a 5 level dip into another class.

Dance bards are full casters who can realistically have 20 AC without any spells or magic items, can add bonuses to initiative and not only evade fireballs, but help the clumsy and squishy wizard avoid getting roasted. Easy a B+.

I love the new dance bard! I’m playing a wood elf who races in the roller derby and the subclass fits it so well. I crank my speed way up and just zoom around the battlefield and whenever someone catches up to me I elbow them in the face and keep skating

Some times they convince themselves into the wrong archetype. Dance Bard is a fighting bard. Not really, it is more of a better controller/ supporter types with better up close and personal attacks. When a enemy reaches you.

In a lot of ways I think that Glamour bard has now become the most complete Bard. It gives you huge party support that other Bards don't get access to, tons of control, and in the situations where you're dealing with mental immune creatures you can still focus on party buffing and support. It just FEELS the most like the archetype of a traditional bard.

I think you look at the Dance Bard as a slippery full caster rather than a Monk/Bard Hybrid. You're hard to pin down with your reaction movement/attack. It is not gonna be hard to have an 18+ AC for most of your career with the best Unarmored defense in the game, and that's before items/spells. You're hard to take out with AOE and in those instances where you're all clumped up against say a fireball/Lightning Bolt/etc, you cut that damage in half. And getting the party going first in combat is HUGE most of the time. This is a great subclass for being that backline or fringe melee combatant where you don't want to be talking on the biggest meanest thing in melee, but if there are mobs swarming your wizard/sorcerer, you can kinda help kite those mobs with your high AC. Or that ridge that has an archer or two and its tricky to land spells on them, Bard has no problem teleporting up there and you can handle a couple ranged enemies in close quarters. This is very much a subclass you want to pick and choose when you are in melee, but you should still be behaving like a full caster most of the time.

It seems like the Dance Bard needs something for Agile Strikes like "When you expend a use of Bardic Inspiration or cast an Abjuration or Enchantment Bard spell as part of an action, a Bonus Action, or a Reaction, you can make one Unarmed Strike as part of that action, Bonus Action, or Reaction."

Dance bard can benefit from extra attack obtained through spells like tenser's transformation and tasha's otherworldly guise. It was kinda wasted on most other gishes because they got extra attack anyway. I also think C is pretty low for a subclass that gives massive initiative boosts to their entire party.

I think Dance Bard makes S tier with the 6th level initiative boost alone, and the 3rd level AC boost is great on top of that. I don't think people realise just how strong a party wide initiative bonus is. This is competing for one of the best features in the game, up there with Twilight Cleric's Channel Divinity and Aura of Protection. It's very, very good.

I think the thing about Dance Bards is that unlike Monks Bards have their spellcasting to fall back on. Monks get the martial extras but Bards get the support extras. You’re not going to want to be fighting exclusively as a dance bard you’re going to be moving up to an enemy, punching an enemy, and then moving away so you’re still not on the front lines.

On the Dance Bard, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills listening to the dudes wanting a full spell caster at level 5 dishing out 3 attacks a turn, and potentially trading one of those attacks for a cantrip. That's turning it into a kick Bard, not Dance. Seems like the design idea was the option to get a little bonus damage from a dance flourish after casting a spell. If it's a weak subclass I'd much rather have more features based on dance, and not taekwondo.

Never gonna tire of Monty pronouncing pattern as a three-syllable word.

20:41 I played a 2014 glamour bard, and that’s essentially what I did. At lower levels (6 and under), there were so many instances where I was able to help the party tank through encounters we should have run from. As a side note, my bard was more of a youth minister type, who’s goal was spreading the gospel of his god, so I said Mantle of Inspiration was Lathandar answering his prayer for protection.

man....when Kelly said summon a dancing pole, i was totally thinking of something else in my perv mind

Fun fact about the Valor bard's martial training and true strike. Both don't specify that the weapon has to be a melee weapon, so you could them using a longbow or pistol. Imagine a Valor bard with two pistols who, in the words of the late Coolio, is laughing and blasting.

I think comparing the Dance and Valor Bards directly to each other is a bit unfair because the Valor Bard will always win in a damage scenario since that's what it's built for. I think the Dance Bard's primary focus is actually it's (admittedly deeper in levels) mobility features, and the one-off Unarmed Strike is just a bonus that happens some of the time when an enemy is on your ass. Dance Bard isn't for being a melee puncher. Dance Bard is for the teamwide initiative boost and the "free" reaction disengage that also helps an ally at L6, and most importantly, shared evasion at L14.

On the topic of Dance Bard, I don't think Extra Attacks is what they're missing. I'd say that something like the Valor Bard feature where you would be able to add BI to your damage would've been nice here too, as it'd allow you to, for example, True Strike as an action, use BI for bonus damage, kick someone in the teeth, then give BI to someone as a Bonus action, kick someone in the teeth again. As an alternative, something like the Defensive Flourish feature Swords Bards have could be nice. On a side note, I feel like Inspiring Movement could've easily been a 3rd level feature alongside Dazzling Footwork. Leading Evasion comes too late at level 14, but I'm not sure if it won't be too strong at 6th level alongside Tandem Footwork. At level 14 you could have something that gives you more BI, just so you can slap more, again similar to what Swords Bards have, but different. Maybe spend a spell slot to regain X BI dice, akin to Sorcery Points. And as I'm writing this, I think that maybe this option is ok for 6th level. All in all, I really like the concept and I'd definitely play one at level 6, because I love the mobility these features provide to the whole party.

I think college of dance is basically the optimal way to play a bladesinger, but for bard. It's not meant to be an actual fight class, it's just a caster with good AC and ability to move out of melee combat while doing a bit of supplemental damage. The only reason it doesn't have extra attack is because they specifically tried to keep you from thinking of it as a martial character, unlike the Bladesinger which people have to try so hard to make it as good in melee as actual martials. It's not a bard that likes melee combat, like yall said we already have that. It's a bard that's good at not getting stuck in melee and good at not getting hit.

I feel like dance bard got a C because it's a bad unarmed attacker, when in reality you're supposed to use it to still be a bard, just a bard that kicks someone in the head as you bend and snap to cast the fear spell. Good AC (excellent at tables with more generous ability score generation), no bad feature levels, and you get to supplement what you're doing with some extra damage.

This makes me want to see Colby make a build that is a Bard/Monk multiclass that gives you that dancing flavor. I’m not an optimizer, but I bet there is something there with a Valor Bard/Kensei Monk that could do some fun things as a Sword Dancer

As much as I agree that the Dance Bard feels like it's missing the Extra Attack class feature (and Dex grappling isn't a monk only), I feel like you guys are completely skipping over the level 6 features of the Bard. Adding your Bardic Inspiration to pretty much every Initative check is amazing (and if you are in melee range when combat starts, you get to kick someone in the mouth whenrolling initiative!), and the off-turn movement power of your ability is AMAZING. Seriously, I know it requires you to spend a reaction and a Bardic Inspiration Die to use the ability, but letting your allies move 10/15ft (or more if they are a Monk) when it's the enemy's turn gives you so much flexibility and power in combat to help shift your allies into the best possible position. It should be a B-Tier easily, with an Extra Attack or Dex Grapple/Prone version, being A-Tier.

Perfect timing, got something to listen to do while I prep lunch.

Playing a Dance Bard now, we started at 5th level, you can absolutely use a True Strike with dagger, then bonus action Bardic Attack(unarmed strike)

When I played BG3, I loved using Cutting Words because it could also be used to subtract from enemies' saving throws. It was like saying, 'Hey, you had better be paralyzed by this spell-it was expensive!

I’m going to do a College of Dance Bard that is based on 1994 Shawn Michaels with a beer gut and you will not hinder my enjoyment.

I dont think the dance bard shouldn't dip too far into just biting the Monk's features. Bards are already OP, they don't need to do every class better than their class. Soon Valor bards will get action surge, lore bard will get Druidic Shaping to just have wildshape, and then a death metal Bard that can Rage while casting and concentrating on spells. What might work is giving the dance bard essentially a beefed up Bladesong from the blade singer. I don't like wizards, so I'm fine with that.

Totally agree on the flavoring part, why everyone always thinks bards are musicians?!? I introduce my College of Swords bard as a dancer. He dances around the battle field, cutting creatures, throwing daggers… One of his morning routines is stretching and flexibility exercises. This one time our party entered a room where a cursed piano was playing a tune that caused an effect similar to Otto’s Irresistible Dance, there were people frantically dancing, people knocked on the floor from exhaustion, basically the entire mansion staff was collapsing on that room and I said I want to countercharm , the dm asked me “How you doing it?” and I responded, I wanna tap dance to a rhythm disrupting to the piano music, I’m dancing to the beat inside my head!

I feel like y'all shortchanged the Dance Bard by barely talking about it's very good support abilities. Being able to give a huge boost to your parties' initiative and give Evasion to people that don't have it is very powerful.

Initiative bonus to the entire patry is really powerfull. The punching when you spend inspiration is just a ribbon, the unarmored defence, bonus to party initiative and AOE evasion are the main things that make it really good. In a party that have a lot of casters, the bonus to initiative for the entire party make them the best bard to fit the party, so they worth at minimum a B. With a the buffs to their allies (party initiative buff and party evasion later on) they are probably the best support bard.

Playing the Glamour Bard and so far liking it though only just reached Level 6. That being said, being able to help allies manoeuvre as well as charming/ frightening enemies can prove to be pretty useful.

I just *love* the whisper bard. Multiclass with a soul knife or a Swashbuckler rogue for ungodly amounts of combined utility and skill proficiency, as well as having sneak attack damage that nearly scales with you if you spend your inspiration, and levels as a full spellcaster.

My Valor bard build is a Viking Skald who focuses on support and damage spells and records the adventures of his party in an effort to craft an incredible epic and be a famous poet

The extra attack feature of the valor bard lets him replace one weapon attack with a cantrip ... with a one level dip in warlock, that cantrip could be eldritch blast. So at level 11 you would fire three beams of eldritch blast, while still attacking two or three times with dual wielding (depending whether or not you want to use your bonus action) ... treantmonk made a video about that explaining that he will never again use conjure minor elemental in a build, unless it's been reigned in.

I was excited for the Dance Bard, but I did not expect the Valor Bard to come out swinging the way it has. Valor was so perfunctory in the 2014 book. Ooh, you can use martial weapons, medium armor, and shields. Ooh, you get Extra Attack at sixth level. Ooh, you can use your Bardic Inspiration for damage or AC bonuses. Whoo. Now it's like, DO YOU WANT TO USE A CANTRIP AS PART OF YOUR EXTRA ATTACK?! DO YOU WANT TO BE A DEVASTATING WHIRLWIND OF ARCANE CARNAGE?! COLLEGE OF VALOR IS THE CHOICE FOR YOU!!! 😂

I believe the College of Dance is worth more than a C. It is a new class and VERY different from the rest, so people are not seeing its full potential compared to already known and seen other classes. Additionally, there was no conversation about spells that could suit the Dance Bard. Just like the monk, it is a complex class that it has more potential in the fine details. Few details that comes to mind: 1) you CAN grapple someone. And if they end your turn still grappled, you can automatically use your reaction and move both of you even further. 2) considering you can move at other people's turn means you can re-apply some emanation spells like spirit guardians. 3) while id say the 14th level feat isnt all that good for that level, it makes the dance bard an excellent bodyguard. They have their spells like a bard, they can give evasion to a fragile class and if the enemy gets near them, they can just use their reaction to move both of them out of harm.

College of Dance homebrew improvement. 1. Bard gets extra attack. 2. Bard gets extra 5 ft movement speed and attacks of opportunity have disadvantage against them. 3. Players holding an inspiration dice get a bonus 5 ft movement speed and attacks of opportunity have disadvantage against them. The idea is to get people dancing around the battlefield.

So this might be a colby build, but when I heard you talk about glamour bard, I heard, use all these features to prevent enemies from attacking me or my allies... I hear glamour bard tank build (perhaps using sanctuary or other spells to remain safe while enemies try unsuccessfully to attack you.) the spike for cowboy bebop. Now I have to look into this...

My go to bard in 5e was a samurai warrior poet, using the scimitar as a katana with the College of Swords. Haikus in battle, quietly playing the biwa in camp or at the tavern. Good times.

Valor bard is really good with shillelagh and polearm master. Like this all attacks uses charisma

I think you underestimated the dance bards influence on partywide initiative rolls starting at level 6. This is a B tier support build if many party members have alert and a way to get advantage on initiative rolls. In a 4 round combat, if the party goes first the monsters only get 3 rounds.

13:08 yes please, let me grapple the evil lich into a tango. I have been plaing a valor bard/warlock multiclass for a couple of years and I have a blast, love to see it can still work as good

My newest build is a Hell Knight, focusing on upcasting Searing Smite with 1 level in paladin and majority valor bard with a small dip into warlock 😊

Playing a Valor Bard (in Drakkenheim!) and went magic initiate (druid) for Shillelagh. No level dip, just have to use a quartestaff/club. Still mostly support focused, but can contribute in combat quite well too.

I played in an all Bard game and the takes 2 to tango grapple made an appearance in that game a few times

Every time I hear of the College of Dance Bard, I think of Mike from Dazed And Confused. "I wanna dance!"

Never played a bard at table, but BG3 turned me on to them in a big way. 10/10 class and I'm looking forward to all the Bard shenanigans moving forward; Valor is my top pick for my first 2024 campaign. The one thing I can say however is this class really asks to have some gaps filled with multi-classing. Like alluded to during 38:00 multiclassing blows the lid off build diversity and really makes me reconsider going straight-class with a Bard, despite it offering a ton of value from the base class alone.

My friends and I are starting Ruin of Vecna soon from Level 11 to 17 and I'm starting out as a multi class Valor Bard 7, Swashbuckler Rouge3 (Since it's still available on DND beyond with the updated rules) and one level of warlock with the pact of the blade invocation I'm excited to use booming blade as one of my attacks, I'll essentially always be able to get sneak attack with rakish audacity and the nick weapon mastery on the rapier, so 2 d6 3 d8 with sneaky booming blade and thats just one of two attack, lock down the opponent and slip away with fancy footwork. I can beef up the damage with Font of moonlight and hex as well if the situation calls for it or stay hidden and use a crossbow with steady aim and vicious mockery/true strike. Battle inspiration along with the musician background to give heroic inspiration. Tons of skill proficiencies and expertise and I don't need to max out hex because CHA is my attacking modifier. Defensive duelist feat for reaction parry, shield and medium with at least a 16 in dex means I can safely Frontline especially with cunning action to get out of tough situations. Not to mention slow, hypnotic pattern, major image and all the other dope spells. Plenty to keep me entertained until Magical secrets in a few levels.

I really really like the idea of a dance bard and have always thought I could just do it as a flavor with a 2014 bard. I think I would skip out on this version of dancing bard to just multiclass a bard monk tbh

I'm a thundercaller bard with sonic build. I love that bardic attacks are considered other world attacks.

Another issue with dance bard is that it's best bardic inspiration use, giving everyone initiative boost, doesn't even work with the 3rd level feature to give you an unarmed strike since it's not part of an action, bonus action, or reaction.

The reason Valour absolutely deserves the A, in my opinion, is that it also rocks house with a bow or a greatsword. It's a very well built subclass.

I played 3 sessions with a halfling college of dance bard named Xavier Finn (after my godson) and I had a lot of fun playing him. He was unfortunately killed off when after I believed a competition the party was competing in was rigged I punched the host of the game in the diaphragm. Turned out she was a noble, it was her birthday AND she was a path of the beast Barbarian. She challenged me to a duel, I didn’t do any damage because the way to win was to either kill or knock out the opponent or knock the opponent out of the arena. Not wanting to kill her, I chose to attempt banishment (I was level 9 so I had a few attempts at it, she just kept succeeding her saves). I lost but survived but something cast soul cage on me.

Monty, I love how you have come around to the sword bard. The D wasn’t the dudes finest moment. lol.

I think with the dance bard if you take druid magic initiate with thornwhip to get people closer to you and primal savagery if they are already in melee range you could reliably hit your bonus action attack do decent enough damage while being a good bard pick up elemental adapt at level 4 and when you are concentrating on a spell your unarmed defense is going to really help out. I think there is definitely enough here , I don't think the extra attack is necessary, the thing I think it's missing is advantage on concentration checks, being a melee spell caster, I think this would have brought them to the next level

The glamour bard really turned the Cupid shuffle into a subclass lmao

Regarding my other comment, perhaps the dance bard would of been better if it was more like dancers in rpgs where you dancing will allow your allies to attack on your turn. Similar to the Commander strike maneuver where it uses one of your attack actions and your allies reaction. Then certain dances can do different things such as temp HP or allowing an ally to use their reaction to move half their movement without provoking opportunity attacks.

Admittedly I’m biased but I’ve been wanting a subclass for Monk like college of dance for a long time (based on capoeira). Mechanically I wonder if it wouldn’t be better that way

I think I disagree with your Dance Bard ranking. I think you guys focused too much on the raw damage output and less on how all of the abilities play with everything else the bard has to offer. On top of just higher AC than some bards and making your entire party go before the enemy, this bard will be spellcasting and essentially buffing the party while dealing decent chip damage all in one turn. You can cast slow, then bardic your fighter, than make a melee attack. I think you guys are thinking of the Dance bard in a more selfish "this bard should be dealing more damage" and not entertaining the potential of "this bard can do potentially a little bit of everything on their turn". I think it's more of a team player than a "let me solo her" subclass. Regardless, good video and good content. Keep up the good work

Dancing Monk? Capoeira BABE :D

definitely right about Valor bard. Really hoping swords bard doesnt get left behind and gets that nifty extra attack in an update

The Dancing punches are a misdirect. That's not the main feature of the subclass, that's a bonus and viable backup attack to casting. The main draw of the subclass is sharing defense and movement, and almost guaranteeing the entire party goes first. It still needs a buff of some kind, but I don't think Extra Attack is the way to go. As is, this class would pair well with a frontliner with Sentinel, or act as a protector of the backfires. B tier for me.

Capoeira is the best theme for a dance bard. It's a martial art disguised as a dance (It was a way of enslaved people to defend themselves and not be forbidden to practice the capoeira). It's very mobile but it's actually strong and can be dangerous. You can even draw more on the African mythology theme and draw your power from orishas and call your bardic inspirations as axé (energy, spirit). Your instrument can be the berimbau or the atabaque.

For the Dance bard, there could have been a boost if they just got the ability to bonus action strike. And if they spend a bardic dice they get a second. A bard flurry of blows.

I’m 💯doing a boot leg ranger. My proficiency bonuses are going in to ranger traits like investigation and survival. As weapon longbow as weapon. And to keep on theme you can select more of your spells from the Druid list. Or go all ASOIAF on it and say your your magic comes form praying to the old goods of tree, river and rock. Pitch: Old grizzled Ranger, when he was younger he wanted to be a musician but life never turns out the way you want it to. Bardic inspiration as Singing na. That’s him just him giving life advice, “I have seen that combat style before just duck” or “You can tell people are lying by how there eyes twitch”. Magical secrets? Na he just met wizard once and the wizard got really drunk and spilled the beens. Dam it the more I think of this the more cool stuff I come up with. This comment is getting edited to hell.

The college of dance should also be able to count it’s unarmed strikes as magical from level 6. Without it you might be highly dependant on magic items.

Maybe I'm overvaluing the benefit, but the College of Glamour Beguiling Magic gives someone the Charmed condition. This isn't the spell, and the charmed condition from beguiling magic doesn't end or even get a save if you attack them. So you can just start wailing on them and they can't fight back.

Dance Bard should have the option for a melee attack as a bonus action when using the magic action. That alone would have brought it up to high B or low A

I remember when Dance Bard was introduced in the One DnD UA and people freaked out because suddenly Bard was out Monk-ing the Monk, but I’m having a hard time remembering what the arguments were other than the fact that Bard unarmed strike damage advances faster than a Monk’s damage, but next to multiple extra strikes and all monk weapons getting stronger together with unarmed damage… I just don’t remember what the fuss was about. Regardless, I agree: Flavor win, mechanical fail.

I love that you guys have done a complete 180 on the swords bard and that you’re not afraid to admit that you may have underestimated it.

I think your under rating Tandem Footwork. It won't make Dance an A, but it's more potent than you give it credit for.

If you were to multiclass between a valor bard and an eldritch knight, would you be able to replace two of your attacks with cantrips rather than just one?

That glamour bard art might be my favorite picture in the book

You can also expend spell slots to get bardic inspiration at lvl 5.

My idea for the Valor bard is to pull out a great axe as a guitar Wheras for the dance bard, taking a level in monk to make a character inspired by Bayonetta

Okay, hear me out. Hexblood Glamour bard, in a party with a dhampir and a reborn. Now you've got the Hex Girls

You could do a ranged damage dealer Valor Bard dual wielding hand crossbow and eldritch blasting with agonzing and repelling blast through a spike growth

Valor bard could also pick up Shillelagh to used charisma and is scales in damage

We are playing an Arabian themed campaign, legacy of fire. The dance bard (female air Goliath) is by far the most versatile character in the group. A tier all the way

Zack the original black ranger is a College of Dance bard 😂

Disagree when it comes to Dance Bard. It's not trying to be a transformative subclass like Valor or Swords. It plays like a standard Bard that also has a bit of melee attacking peppered in. And that Initiative boost to the whole party is great.

My only gripe with the dance bard is you could cast hold person and if it sticks, crit twice. but also evasion uses a reaction so you're really just stuck too many bonus actions and reactions

15:19 dance bard's C tier placement is not only extremely uncharitable given that college of dance is actually a subclass which takes the war domain cleric's schtick and legitimately just makes it better (you have: 1. a bonus action attack that you can do spellcasting mod times per short rest (but dancebard can also use it on reactions with built in defense) 2. you can influence your ally's to-hit rolls more times than the cleric, maybe not as dramatically as a +10 but you *also* boost their saving throws if we are only discussing in-combat uses given you had umbrage with not using bardspiration outside combat; you can also help your non-attack roll dependent teammates this way 3. additionally you can make their (and your) movement better, just a bonus perk that war cleric has no answer for 4. your AC can naturally match their heavy armor, level 4 dance bard has like 17 AC depending on how you split +5/+3 5. bard spell list is just *way* better than the cleric spell list courtesy of immense control (and at level 10 you can legit just get their spells and any other spells you may fancy) 6. and instead of getting basic resistances at level 17 you boost your party's initiative *and* saves against AOEs at level 14, right around the time breath weapons are going to be a real pain in the butt; like it's an infinitely better war cleric because you get to do all the war cleric stuff, like legit all of it, but with way more support options for your party and way better spells), so not only is a C very uncharitable, but also in the cleric subclass rankings war cleric was a B??? Apples to apples college of dance does everything the war cleric can do (and way more), how does it end up lower than the war cleric unless you're being uncharitable only because your specific expectation of this class was not met (being a monk gish) so you docked points for it not living up to that specific archetype rather than judge it on it's own merits, like spiritual weapon is not *that* good a spell lol that it warrants war cleric be a whole tier above dance bard

Question for the Lore Bard. When a character sees a monster hit a fellow player with an attack, how does he know whether the monster barely hit or not? Isn't that meta-gaming? No DM I've ever played with would tell the players what the creature hit by. And if the player doesn't know, he could wasting his bardic inspirations over and over. I'd think the solution would be the bard can use it, but the die is only expended if it makes a difference in whether the attack hit or missed ... or the roll was successful or failed if it wasn't an attack.

Defensive spin as a bonus action dodge would be good for the dance bard

Dance bard with an immovable rod to dance from.

Ooh I want to make a college of valor bard that’s loosely based off of Yondu from Guardians of the Galaxy. They would use whistling as their spellcasting focus and, if the DM was cool with it, flavor shooting arrows with a short bow as launching arrows out of their quiver with their magical whistle 😗

I can see a Glamour Bard doubling down on the rockstar thematics and asking for a smoke break whenever they need to take a short rest

I'm mixed on their ranking of dance bard. If you're going out of your way to use the bonus action attack as often as possible, then yes, you're in C tier territory at best. But I don't think that's the best way to play dance bard. The dance bard has increased survivability, can help the party get a jump start in initiative, and better mobility for itself and party members. The bonus attack is a nice extra. I could see this subclass being good for a controller bard with party members who could benefit from increased mobility. I think that's a B.

With the dance bard, you have an ultimate support character who is a full spell caster and also half monk subclass. It’s fine, but not overwhelming. B for me.

How did you talk about dance fighting and not talk about Zoolander?!?

Fun fact, the Valor Bard going full CHA is not restricted to using a single weapon if they grab Pact of the Blade. Dual wielding is still on the table. Like so: Strike with your light pact weapon, True Strike with another light non-pact weapon in your other hand using CHA, bonus action strike with your pact weapon again. Wording for the Light property backs this.

I would have liked seeing something else added to Lore bard. Reliable talent would be fantastic, or use your level 6 magical secrets once each without a spell slot.

Love dance bard , flavored it as a maori hooligan, haka is bardic inspiration and his unarmed is headbuts. Representing the all blacks!

I instantly thought of Rasputin from The King's Man when you talked about the Dance Bard 😂