Breaking in and testing my new White Oak Armament 18" SPR Barrel. It has a 1:8 twist and mid-length gas system. UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with RU-vid content policies. www.patreon.com/reloading
It's about keeping things consistent, we weigh power, we weigh bullets, some people weigh brass. if everything is consistent the bullets should by theory when fired have all land in the same spot. That's how I was taught. I hope this helps I have seen bullets differences over 5 grain higher or lower than the stated weight ....that may be the fliers... IT MAY TIGHTEN GROUPS I weigh all bullets and group them in boxes... Say they are ( 90 gr match KING ) stated on the box... I have found differences like 90.4grs. put them all together, 90.2grs and put them together and so on. I shoot them in the order of their weights. I have fewer fliers and tighter groups
I agree with you on bolt guns to milk as much as possible accuracy. In ar 15 style using good bullets such as smk auto scales are only plus or minus .1. Good prepared brass will get sub inch at 100 no problems
A pattern I have noticed with your videos is Nosler bullets are trash. They charge a premium and are budget performance. I’m glad you made all these videos. I have seen all of your videos and rewatch them occasionally now that you are done making content. You made the best reloading videos!
First time I've seen your channel. Love it! Would love to see this vs a Ballistic Advantage 18" SPR side by side accuracy test for those MK12 clone-ish guys. I've come around to liking my BA, but it does not shoot nearly that consistent.
Excellent shooting! I think you're right this barrel will truly show if the Bullets will shoot well or not. Long range shooters of Utah built an AR with a WOA barrel and it shoots fantastic
I purchased that exact barrel about 8 months ago and was extremely impressed as well. I had great success all the way up to 77 grain and actually had my tightest group to date with the 75 grain hornady bthp can't remember which powder without my log handy but this video has definitely re-sparked my interest in my spr build/load work up project so Thank you for that sir!
Nice video. Just wondering, why not 77 grn. Sierra MK. After all the White Oak SPR 1/8 is designed for them you know? As a long time White Oak SPR rifle length 1/8 barrel owner, mine LOVES 77 SMK's.
Why not 24 nches barrel if you want that kind of accuracy??? 16 or 18 in barrel only use for tactical ..fast shoot to hit multiple targets...not good for a tight tight group
Just subscribed, love the content as a noob reloader. That being said, each video cracks me up, as it seems like something out of the Adams family. Thing keeps running around grabbing powder and bullets on screen!
As I'm just watching your catalog of videos, I just wanted to say I really appreciate your in depth subject matter. This channel alone is what got me started reloading 223 and 6.5 creed. Now im going to start on .44 mag and .357 mag. Just wanted to say thank you sincerely.
it would be interesting if you could use big box factory federal 55gr and wolf or tula 55gr as a baseline for comparison to see how much performance handloads give you
Pretty great video. If your interested in trying an accurate hunting bullet you should try the 65 gr sierra game king. Ive got a 16" 1-7 that consistently shoot those well bellow 1/2 moa and a 20" 1-9 that shoots then inside of 1 moa both with Varget.
A heavy load of RE-15 has delivered the best results so far for me shooting 77 and 80 grain SMK's from a match conditioned 1 in 7 twist / 20 inch barrel / iron sight AR-15 A4 which I use in Across the Course and Long Range Service Rifle Competition. Typically, 20 round groups at 100 yards are sub half MOA from sling supported prone position. And while the 80 grain bullet can get to the 1000 yard line nose-on, an MOA wind constant of 10, means an un-countered wind change of just 1 mph will displace bullet about 10 inches, meaning few X-Ring hits, since I cannot discern a 1 mph wind change. I have interest in trying out Power Pro 2000-MR for higher velocity and less pressure. I understand that the AMU has used it or something like it before it was on commercial market. At any rate, I think you might want to shoot some factory match rounds rather than going about it as you are. Doing that would give you a benchmark for your loadings based on your marksmanship, which appears to be undeveloped, since at the distance you are shooting to with the optic sight platform you are shooting should literally produce one hole 5 round groupings, even with loads having a high velocity swing from round to round. What you are showing are essentially bullet impacts which indicate no grouping ability at all and the need to learn how to point the rifle with constant sight alignment and pull the trigger without disturbing aim utilizing SMOOTH trigger control. . I'm not doggin' ya, but you just do not have the credentials to profess on this topic. Creds: Military Rifle Instructor assisting USAMU deliver SDM, TTT, and SAFS, US Distinguished Rifleman, and NRA Long-Range High Master.
Kick ass dude! This is a great starting point for me. The last of my parts for my SPR will be here this week. I'll be running a 16" Krieger and went light as possible where I could. How much does your setup weigh?
While I know it's not really up to your standards, I'll take sub 2MOA with SS109 all day long. For that bullet? That's freaking great. Very excited to see what you can do with that barrel.
hey Johnny we live 30 minutes away from the custom shop gun shop that manufactures those Overing jags. I picked up a couple the last time I was there and plan to pick up a couple pistol jags when I go back again. they even manufacture and odorless Solvang that does a nice job on cleaning out barrels. in the end you are right best way to break in a barrel is just to shoot it out take care
great choice on the barrel that is super with the 4166 I'm glad you're having trouble cuz I can't find a good load in that either the Nosler the partition bullets I've never had good luck with Partition bullet I'm happy for you and your Barrel watching those groups go in was just sweet
I Finaly found some cci 41 primers (midway USA) they are very good primers for accuracy but don't feed well in my progressive press and at 10.5 cents per primer, loss can get expensive in that progressive press....
John, qùestion- reloaded for lil over 20 years, i have been told that reloading for the ar is completely diffrent. So reloading for 5.56 does it take special die to reload ? I have all experts say it will not cycle in ar. Any help be appreciated.. danny from Tennessee
Excellent video as always brother! Your Grendel series convinced me to build one. Glad to see you back posting more recently. Also happy to see more ads coming back to your channel and other gun related ones. Keep shootin' and thanks!
Awesome JRB, VERY nice barrel and VERY good shooting as well. Nice to see you testing with a match barrel, Congrats on the purchase. Looking forward to watching this barrel in future videos. If through out your testing you don't mind trying some of the following loads it would be great to see. 77 gr SMK's with up to 24.0 Varget 77 gr SMK's with up to 24.1 Vhit 140 77 gr SMK's with up to 23.2 8208 XBR 69 gr SMK, with up to 25.3 Varget. Thanks for making these great vids, thumbs up for sure.
My grandson Anthony is building a AR-15 and I load rounds for him. The best group so far has been three shots at a hundred yards which covered with a dime. I loaded 22.6 grains of IMR 8208 XBR powder behind a Hornady 75 grain BTHP Match bullet. With a CCI SR primer. OAL 2.250. He is going to shoot at 200 and 300 yards next.
My reaction was similar to yours when I first took out my white oak 20" varmint build.....i had to REALLY look around to find even factory ammo it would shoot very much over 1 MOA. Handloads, don't even think of having a big target. No point. I do love me some WOA barrel.
The Varmint nightmares never group well for me but my buddy has a 1-9 barrel that shoots them well. I even tried them in a 22-250 and it didnt like them either. All 6 of my AR's wont shoot them, neither will my Ruger American or Savage Axis. I have 1000 left that a buddy gave me and I just loaded some stuff up for blasting ammo for my Machinegun. I wont even shoot them through my cans because they shoot so bad, I'm expecting a baffle strike of one to blow up. I did see one not make it to the target in a very hot load another buddy did in his 22-250, it just blew up somewhere at the 100 yard indoor range. He said they were loaded to the nuclear level 4000fps is what he claimed.
I used to use all sorts of different brass but I would sort by headstamp to try to keep it consistent. I saw a box of lapua 223 brass go on sale so I bought it to try out. It made quite the difference. It reduced groups by about .2-.25 MOA. Would love to see what that would do for your gun!
You could try to stick a bit of felt to the deflector to see if that helps against the brass getting dents. I see that alot on SIG 550s :) interresting Jag, and tbh i wouldnt worry to much over the O-Rings. You can buy bulk pack of those things in any half decent hardware store
It's funny I actually got 4166 to shoot the other day for the first time myself took some serious time and playing but it did shoot OK out of my girlfriends 308 savage 10 lady hunter
I love my WOA SPR barrel. It's pretty happy shooting 75gr Swift Scorroco II's with 24.1gr varget, LC brass with CCI 400. 2580fps at 36F. Shoots 3/4" or less at 100yds off a bipod. Likes the 69gr SMK's as well. Hitting steel at 300yds in about 3.5-4MOA patterns.
I'm a White Oak fan, more so on the WOP (White Oak Precision) side of the products but I think everything they do is quality. Looks like you'll have a shooter with the right bullets and load.
Really encouraging to see your break-in groups weren’t a perfect ragged hole at 100 (don’t get me wrong - those are good groups). I just sent my first 20 rounds of factory JHP (cheep range ammo) through my PSA 416R 18” 223 Wylde and was feeling pretty lousy about 2” groups. But seeing your break-in groups with carefully measured hand loads makes me optimistic about what I’ll be able to do with some load development.
Great video Johnny, love watching your process. If you would like to try some light weight .224 bullets may I recommend Nosler 53 gr. Varmaggedon? They seem to shoot under MOA out of my 18 inch 1/8 BCM. Also I have seen them for $11 for 100 bullets on Midway. Thanks for the great videos, keep em coming!
How about doing some load test using Barnes .224 70 gr. TSX-BT in 16 " and 10.5" 1 in 7 twist barrels. I bought a PSA freedom 16" 1in 7 upper that they had on sale and i cannot get it to shoot worth a crap. Tried 3 different scopes, scope mounts and rings, powder types and charges, primers and casings but no good. Is it the bullet or the upper?????
It's probably the loose nut behind the trigger. Replace the nut with another one then compare the groupings. 1st. Check your ego at the entrance to the range. 2nd. Check your attitude because if you go in that they are going to shoot crappy as they have before then you will be right. 3rd. Write down all variables and crunch the numbers later that evening after a good dinner; also, have someone else look at your data. Accuracy is like the law when you go to court. How much can you afford?$$$ It sounds to me that you have a great learning project to learn from. Gun powder burn rate and amount, bullet weight and type, velocity can be extrapolated from bullet weight and grains of gunpowder around the published data. For example, on average, it takes 1 grain of gun-powder for every 10 grains of bullet to give it a muzzle velocity of 2,500 feet per second (fps) at the mid-range of bullets, or 62.5 grains. The interesting part is that as you go higher, you need less grains of gunpowder, but the reverse is also true. The objective is for you to find your barrel/bullet/powder curve then superimpose an accuracy curve to see which combination plays best together. You will be amazed on how much bullet RPM affects accuracy, so you need to incorporate your barrel twist rate, which is fixed on every barrel unless you change barrels. You might find that playing with your calculator and data is more fun than shooting into the wind because you will gain a better understanding. Take note of these videos and modify the data to fit your situation and one day that loose nut behind the trigger might disappear! I don't wish you good luck on your shooting because I consider that an insult, I believe that we make our luck by understanding, preparing and lots of practice. My rabbits foot brought me back from the Nam.
Nice video. I went with WOA when I built my MK12 replica. The barrel is definitely top notch and I get just under MOA with my 75 grain hand loads. My next build will definitely incorporate another WOA barrel.. BTW, a 5.5mm borescope should fit. Not much wiggle room but as long as it doesn't exceed 5.56 you should be ok.
I see you are happy now. I was also happy when my CZ came back from factory with a barrel that grouped finally. Other people did say different. Ring a bell? Keep up the good work. Oh yes that vortex is very good choice. You are evaluated.
I got a 22" 8 twist barrel on my bolt gun in 223, and it shoots like crap with any 55 grain bullets. 50 and anything over 55 shoot fantastic though. Great video and awesome barrel!
Jared, do the math. Less than 55 grain is going to require RPMs higher than what a 1:8 barrel twist can give you under normal velocity. It is equivalent of trying to spin a light weight toy top with half the effort, it will behave like "crap". The heavier the bullet, the more mass, the more momentum, the more gyroscopic stability; enough to reach downrange at your target. If you were to shoot at much longer targets, the heavier bullets would behave like your 50 grain at short range. So, go with a higher velocity for the 50 grain, which I do not advise as it becomes very dangerous in order to gain gyroscopic stability from an 1:8 inch twist. It is better to accept the lightest of the heaviest bullet at the slowest velocity acceptable that will give you the best accuracy and stick to it with that gun; else, break out your pocket book, time, energy, and frustration. In other words, work with what works, do not try to make something that does not work, work because it is not broken. RPM = velocity x (12 / Barrel Twist Rate) x 60 Apply the value to the bullet weight and accuracy, plot it, graph it on Excel, and enjoy predicting the future.
Interesting about the SS109. I have some ZQI 62gr steel core (SS109) that shockingly groups MOA out of my 14.5" DD, CHF, Pencil Barrel. Don't know who makes the Bullet though. Must be just a lucky (magical) match up....I guess. Harmonics are a funny thing.
Hi Johnny? Do you have top 5 barrels for best sub-moa on 5.56 or 223 wylde 1-8 twist barrel from 16 to 18" that you have tested? I wonder who makes the best of all of them. I'm torn between this White Oak, JP, Vseven, Ballistic Advantage, Daniel Defense, proof research, others you would prefer, etc... This video on White Oak Armament seems like #2 or 1 accuracy test you had conducted. Thank you for your time, if you ever see this or you have an upcoming video.
I read some bad news from a barrel makers website. was Kreiger or Bartlein. shooting a gas gun suppressed burns out your barrel twice as fast. Dam, twice as fast. That's sickening. I will stick with my Miculek Brake I guess.
WOA 18" complete upper free floating varmint barrel fluted 1 in 7" twist attached to a Colt M-4 with a Geissele SSA-E trigger. Using reloaded Sierra 69 grain Match King bullets it shoots 3/8" five shot groups at 100 yards. I also have a Bushnell 4.5-18x40mm scope with Custom Turret label accurate out to 900 yards. The rings are 1" high QD aluminum. The group in the picture was with 65 grain Sierra Game kings which I use for deer..
Those gas blocks are made by SLR Rifle works, and just have WC markings. Them and Superlative arms are the two adj had blocks I trust. Ranging from $84-115. Check out armorally for superlative arms& righttobear for the best price on the sentry series gb.
This is my WOA 18" complete upper free floating varmint barrel fluted 1 in 7" twist attached to a Colt M-4 with a Geissele SSA-E trigger. Using reloaded Sierra 69 grain Match King bullets it shoots 3/8" five shot groups at 100 yards. I also have a Bushnell 4.5-18x40mm scope with Custom Turret label accurate out to 900 yards. The rings are 1" high QD aluminum. The group in the picture was with 65 grain Sierra Game kings which I use for deer..
I'm curious as to why you zeroed your AR rifle, especially an SPR set-up, at 100 yards. Most folks I know zero a rifle at 300. Pistols are commonly zeroed at 100. In the end, it's your rifle. You can zero it in at 25 yards if you so desire. Like I said, just curious.
love my White Oak barrel. 18' SPR in stainless and shoots just great when I do my part. When you get into loading in can drive you insane with all the variables to play with....powders, bullets, OAL, primers, etc. Really interesting to see you progress through each load and shot groups.
I would not call that Nosler Performance bullet a ''Crappie'' bullet. All bullets are not going to go threw one hole but those were not bad groups you shot with them unless your ultimate goal is Hummingbird hunting and then you might wound one once in awhile. lol. I load and shoot a lot of those and they are a Great deer or self defense bullet. They are bonded, maintain their weight and make a pretty mushroom in about anything you want to shoot them in. That wasn't bad groups with the 855's either, probably the most inaccurate bullet ever invented since they loaded guns with rocks again they aren't designed to all follow each other threw one hole, but they do a good job at what they are made for. I happen to live up on a hill with a pond below me with the damn being right at two hundred and fifty yards. We regularly blow up hedge balls, small rocks and other small things from the house with our AR'S. Not $3,000 AR'S either, I've got an Adams arms piston gun and a Anderson Arms DI gun and they are both capable of better accuracy than I am anymore. lol . I've watched all of your videos and I have many hundreds of rounds of the 77gr match kings loaded and 500 Nosler 77 grain match bullets coming. I went with the AR Comp and they will shoot better than I can shoot them now at 63 with failing eyesight. In my younger days we used to staple a white piece of paper on the 200 yard backstop with fly bait on it and yes, we shot a LOT of flys with .223's out of bench rest rifles. Those were good times.
MERRY CHRISTMAS! Got my barrel! I chose the rifle length gas system. It seems to work good for me. Keep up the good work. Anyone I know that “I” think needs a better loading regime gets referred to YOU. I load the way You do. Happy New Year too.
I just got a 1:7 on Brownells and I'm honestly thinking about sending it back and getting a 1:8. I simply don't shoot anything above 77gr pretty much ever, so this is kind of overkill. Any thoughts? I pretty much shoot from 55gr to 77gr with the most common being 62gr M855 and 69gr SMKs.
Great video, liked and subscribed. Why do barrels come in even number inch lengths and why do twist rates come in integer numbered twists? What would have been great if if you had crony the shots, too that way we could calculate the RPM at the 100 yard range and deduce which weight bullet maintained a better gyroscopic stability to lead to better accuracy. Also, as others have commented about weighing the boxed bullets to remove the variable of weight inconsistency unless your reviewing the bullet from the manufacturer out of the box. When I win the Mega Lotto, I will support your channel, completely. The only problem is, I don't believe in gambling or luck. You are very entertaining, educational and inspiring.
I have a 16 inch WOA with ambi barrel extension I used on my first build using a Stag lefty upper. I shoots lights out with everything from 50gr to 77gr bullets. Maybe I'll build a longer barred upper for a bench gun with a WOA tube!
I'm hoping my Rosco barrel will give me similar results. Check out Kotaboy32 channel , he reviewed a scope that was very affordable and it really had a clear picture of the barrel. It plugged into a cell phone.
As the bolt carrier is critical because it's the heart of your functional system. You should invest a little bit into a bit better bolt carrier group. But it makes you quite well as long as it locks up good in that chamber that you have on that Barrel. Almost exactly the break-in procedure my gunsmith gave me for breaking in the stainless Barrel on my M1A. Fire 20 rounds, clean it good, shoot it. He has more experience and Firearms then any other four people I know and at least as much experience as any other expert I've ever heard of. He's been shooting National matches since he was 13 years old. When he went into the military and was shooting it the 500-yard range with his m14a Sergeant came up and told him all the things he was doing wrong. He looked at the sergeant and told him that when he can out shoot him he will listen to him. The sergeant immediately called what his score was and it was 13 Rounds in the ten ring. So he immediately dispatched him down to teach the people who have never fired Firearms before how to get the gun to shoot at least on a cardinal direction of West. Is your brass when you first shot it going forward of the rifle which indicates being over gassed, straight out the side, which indicates a pretty good adjustment. We're towards the rear of the ejection port which indicates undergassed. It looks like you're reaching back for the brass but it's hard to tell with the tight video shot you have. I replayed it at 1/4 speed, and it look like it was going straight to the right of the rifle. Your gas block does not need adjustment if that is so. When you move to 100 yards your shell came out and went to the rear. That means it's under gassed. JB is not an aggressive cleaner. It is a bore and chamber polishing agent. And 5.5 mm should fit into a 5.56 millimeter bore. It's whether or not it's truly smaller than the lands. Even with the 75 grain loads you're still ejecting the cartridge to the rear of the ejection Port. You still have it slightly under gassed. Even with the suppressor on it.
Well, by God? That'll do it! After watching your results...and my desire to have a relatively accurate ranger...pulled the trigger on the WOA barrel. Gonna use the JP carriage and the WOA bolt (as they'll do a proper headspace BEFORE sending it out). REALLY REALLY wanted to get into a 6mm ARC platform with Odin Works; however, everything was "OUT-OF-STOCK", so? WOA it is, by GOD! VERY informative video series, Mr. Jonny's Reloading Ranch.
This was a very interesting video. It's proof that even with a good barrel, the performance lagged with bullets that were historically crummy. What do you do, when you have a bullet that's supposed to be great, yet everything you try yields zip..? You're headed in the right direction, keep on trying different powder type and charge variations until you find something that works. This is what we do... Thanks for sharing your info!
JLB, how about the 62 gr Hornady hpbt at midsouth shooters supply. I've been trying to find some load data for them but can't. Can't even find a review anywhere for these bullets. Was wondering if you had any information?
If those 55 gr vnx are anything like the hornady 55 gr flat base spire point, BL-C(2) worked well for me. That was the first bullet I tried in a bone stock savage axis and got about an inch at 100 yrds.
And so many ppl wanna act like gas guns suck accuracy wise, when done correctly by a home "assembler" or JP Enterprises or someone that knows what they're doing and they can definitely b tack drivers
I was trying to see how bullet resistant white oak lumber was from other peoples experience. I had a slightly more than 2.5 inch thick white oak slab (as in the tree/lumber) catch one of those hornady slugs. Blew my mind, might need to retest with videos. This is cool to, just don't have anything to do with white oak- the tree.
Johnny's Reloading Bench hey bud, I love the beginning of this video. Lot of work went into that. Maybe you could speed it up 1.5x add a little cool music and make that your channel intro. Great job and info as always. Love that barrel. Was the adjustable gas block a good investment and would you recommend that model?
Interesting to note the gun would just about 'one hole' at least two rounds and almost as often three rounds out of the five with the higher quality pills. If this were a bolt gun of this barrel quality, it would likely have stacked all five. My judgement is we're seeing the variance of the semi-auto effect of bolt motion/lock up in combination with normal barrel vibration harmonics. Unfortunately, this effect comes with the territory of the AR platform no matter how heavy the barrel contour is.
have you heard anything good or bad about rosco barrels? thinking of getting one for my 5.56 16 inch gun but didn't know if you could tell me if they are accurate barrels or not...
I'm a fan of those TCS jags. Ended up picking up more in various calibers. I recently bought a WOA barrel for my 18" SPR build. Excited to see how it shoots. I was just going to replace my PSA barrel but decided to build a new complete upper instead so it'll be a little while before I can accuracy test it, along with the new Vortex Viper 5-25. I don't reload, so I intend to use Hornady Black 75gr BTHP .223
