Michigan's min deer caliber is .243/6mm for long guns except the shotgun zone (~lower third) and .35 for handguns, the Legends, Buckhammer, & Bushie statewide within the case length max that's taking hold.
Just buy you a pair of GOOD rifles...in 30 CAL!. AND stop falling for all the marketing TRICKS to coerce you into collecting "different/boo-teek" guns for the SAKE of Impulsive Spending Greed!
I grew up with a shared opinion that the .223 was a deer wounding bullet. With this being said, a lot has changed in bullet technology, which gives reason to reconsider the 223 for deer. What ultimately delivers a clean kill is the ability to disrupt the nervous system, circulatory system, or combination of the two. Clearly, what is needed is a bullet that can expand delivering a large temporary cavity and a deep permanent cavity, which has the potential to exit, creating a secondary wound to bleed out. Todays "solid copper" and "fused" .223 bullets in the 70gr range can expand to nearly .50cal in diameter and penetrate to depths, which can deliver full penetration on deer sized game. I agree shot placement and distance play a major factor when choosing to hunt with a .223, but if your shooting distances are typlically less than 100yrds, and you're willing to pass on poorly angled shots, the .223 with the correct bullet is a reasonable option.
I think you nailed it with this description. Bullet placement and the correct bullet construction are the most critical, and the new bullet types you mentioned give what were marginal calibers some extra effectiveness vs what was available in the past.
A couple of other considerations: Big northern bucks at 300+ pounds, or Texas hill country deer that are usually below 125 pounds (or even lighter)? Are you hunting where 300-400 yard shots are possible, or in thicker cover where 150 yards is an unusually long shot?
Many animals which would be considered too big for 22LR, have fallen to the 22LR because the shooter understands that close proximity and precise shot placement are critical. If the same care is taken with 223, then how much more adequate is 223 for deer over the 22LR.
@@Urtjjfjrjtk farmers and tree nurseries have to occasionally get State permits to take out whitetails that are damaging crops, Christmas trees, etc. Once the permits are cleared and issued, then designated shooters are hired to come in and eliminate the deer causing the damages. Now that I've explained that to you, I'm waiting for his response about all of his .223 deer that ran such a short distance. I've taken hundreds of deer with intermediate cartridges (223, 7.62x39, 6.8spc, 6.5 Grendel, 300blk, etc.) and they rarely ever run that short of a distance when shot through the lungs. I thought maybe he made a mistake. Were you there with him he made the shots? Is that why you butted into the comment? If not, then your opinion is about as useful as tits on a boar hog👍
@@chadmcswain5389tits on a boar hog?!😂 I agree with your assumption that the greater number of deer ran further than 5 steps, especially when those deer are whitetail. With that being said, the OP did say his 5 step kills were muleys, not whitetails and maybe he found the perfect shot placement on said 5 steppers. Ive shot the lungs out of whitetails at 50 yards, or the heart out of another with 300blk and was impressed by the ground they covered after that kind of damage. Yet I have a friend that whacked a stunner whitetail buck at 300yds with a 223(factory loaded ballistic tip i believe) and it was a bang/flop. Crazy. I think the experience you have with "hundreds" is pretty invaluable. Did you notice any improved killing performance with the grendel or the spc? Honestly I feel the only advantage given by a 308 over the AR calibers you listed is just range. Anything inside of 150yds would be just as dead.
I started out with a 220 swift and bought a 243 about 20 years ago i always doe hunt with my 243 i buy a riffle for bucks last season i was a 6.5cm didnt really care for it my youth hunter daughter has used a 223 for 3 year now tagged out all shots within 90 yards this year im working on a 3040 craig i inherited should be fun 😁
Well said. Shot placement is key. Sucks tho if an animal turns on u. Or gets injured first and u can't get a proper kill shot.. It is so much easier to go backcountry with a light shooting rifle.
Interesting video! In sweden we have all calibers in differrent categories. Every measured energy at 100meters. 22lr is a category 4 >60joule and for small game, crows, rabbits etc. 9x19 is a category 3>250joule, small game like fox, badgers, goose etc. 223/5,56 is a category 2>900joule, medium game like swedish deer(weight around 40kg), 12 guage shotgun is also category 2. And for category 1 we have 308win, 30-06, .243 and so on, >2000 joule. Takes on all classes of animals. Important rule is all hunting ammo must be of a expanding type, no fmj. I would never use 223 for hogs or other bigger animal, one, its a hunting crime and two, i dont thing its ethical even if its possible. The 223 is a awesome caliber, i have a ruger mpr in 223 and love it but it have its limits
243 is class 2. 6,5x55 and 6,5 creedmoor are the low end of class 1. And only class 1 and 2 need expanding bullets. You often hunt black grouse and capercaillie with 6,5 fmj.
@@robertpetersson5655 yeah you've right, the 243 fixes the energi at 100m but the bullet is too light to make the caliber qualify as class1. If a fmj bullet i used in a class 1 caliber it "becomes" a class 3 due to the lack of energydump. You are right in both cases, i just wanted to be short without deeper details
I have used both here in my area. Most deer were a 100 yards or less due to the area being hunted .243 is was highly popular here for years . Thanks for the video 👍🇺🇸
I would say 243 is for elk, what 223 is for deer. Wouldn't necessarily recommend but plenty of animals have been harvested successfully in both scenarios. Bullet construction, placement, and velocity on impact is everything.
@@ANW-cl7bw Can it be done? Yes. Very short range, perfect shot, easy terrain. Should it be done? No. I'm in Montana, very rugged terrain, grizzlies, most shots are across coullees 400 yds. If you're packing a .243, you're not very smart.
@@ANW-cl7bw limits your options for sure. If not a young, or lightweight person, then no reason to hunt big game with 243. I carry a compact 308. Apparently I cant kill Elk at 600yds like everyone else online, lol. My only point, shoot what u can shoot well within realistic circumstances:)
About 10 years ago, around 2012, West Virginia temporarily dropped it's, >.25 cal centerfire ammo restrictions on whitetail. We had folks hit the field with both, the reports back from the field while flavoring the .243 win, got the restrictions reinstated by 2016. .223 pencil most of the shots except for the cornering shot, those AR-15 got re-uppered afterwards for 6.5 Grendel or 350 legend, those who shot the .243win, it worked fine out too 250 yards, but we had a problem with the hunter not so much the caliber, the hunter was found to either be a youth who couldn't physically drag the deer out, or likewise a impaired or elderly shooter using the lower .243 recoil (in comparison to a full power .30 cal) getting hurt or having a heart attack on drag-out. So WV-DNR went back to the .25 caliber centerfire or larger requirements, sometimes it isn't the round that's at issue but the shooter!
I have both. One only comes out for deer season the other stays in the ranch truck all year for everything from ground squirrels to coyotes to an occasional pig or javelina makin a mess of the irrigation lines. I don't get as mad when I can't find a varmint. But I want my deer meat easy-to-find and drag to the truck.
Hmmm, my first comment disappeared. I did take a nice whitetail buck at 50 yds. with a 64 grain, Winchester Power Point Plus which is rated on the box for Whitetail. I would not attempt to shoot a deer past 100 yds. with a .223. Some states do not allow .223 for deer.
Since you like weatherby and if you like the 243, you should try the 257 weatherby magnum. The quater calibers are often overlooked. At one point, the 25-08 was a wildcat (sometimes referred to as the 25 Souper. But bullet choice was limited and it never caught on.
Great video keep them coming. I would like a better comparison aka all ar15 length rounds like 6.5 Grendel ,6 ARC and 22ARC against the old standard 223. Keep up the great videos.
🎯 great video, modern hold on the shoulder even thru bone deer rated bullets matter much for (.243 or .223/5.56) both are legal here, at normal deer hunting ranges the deer can't seem to tell the difference & pile up quick.
Hey buddy, off topic. I know your a temington fan, as i am of older guns. Have you shot or handled a new 870 field. Havent heard much about them but am looking for a new 20 gauge. Just wandered how quality was
One thing that's important to note is that most manufacturers of 243 _ASSUME_ what you're using it for based upon the bullet weight. 80-grains-and-up is _ASSUMED_ to be for deer sized game, and anything less than 80 grains is _ASSUMED_ to be for predators or varmints. The reason that matters is because bullet construction often -- _not always, but often_ -- is different for 80+ than it is for less-than-80. I'm sure that a 75-grain 243 would still wreck a deer, but it's often a varmint-bullet at that weight, and may not be optimal construction for that task. This isn't 100%, but is more of a general trend.
Range, bullet design, velocity, shooter ability. I wonder how many deer have been killed with a 22 long rifle. Maybe as many as with a 30-06. One major factor I haven't mentioned is responsibility. Take enough gun, enough ability, and enough responsibility.
Here in Yakutia .223 is good for a roe deer, but I've seen Barnaul HPs pierce through a roe alongside up to 300 yards and seen wounded with FMJs at 60 yards. The problem is to deliver the energy, so some people expand HP's tip hole with 1.5mm drill and I believe it helps, but SPs might be a better choice.
Watch Erik Cortina interview with Larry Taite. Larry shot a 243 . Great interview. A 243 is a very accurate round. It's a great interview if you have never seen it. Larry is a good guy. Great vids!!!!
100% spot-on video. For me, I prefer bang flop and pass thru bullets due to the woods we hunt in PA and central NY. Not saying either won't work, but I prefer larger and more energy to either of these two.
In CO I believe the minimum is 240 caliber which I think is there just to allow 243 to squeeze by. Also it has to hit with 1000ft/lbs of force at 100 yards. Yet for some reason if hunting with a handgun that 100 yard power requirement is cut in half to 500ft/lbs from what I remember. I’ve never understood why if 500ft/bs is ok for handgun, why isn’t it acceptable for rifle? Or if rifle requires 1000ft/bs, why aren’t handguns required to meet that? What matters is the end result on the deer. In NM is 22 caliber center fired as the minimum. It blows my mind that you all can hunt multiple deer in a single season where you are at. In NM it’s a single deer, almost always restricted to a buck only, and is done through a lottery so way more chances that you won’t draw at all. In CO it’s a point system so if the next guy has more points than you in a given unit, then no tag for you for the season.
243 all day, it's a sad shame the 260 rem Never took off, it even better for deer than the 243 and out performs the 6.5 creedmoor, you can harvest deer with a 223 however the farther out you go the less likelihood of an ethical humane kill, the 243 has what it takes a greater distances and can really pack a wollop at closer ranges too
i took my first 3 deer and one antelope(at 500 yds btw) with .243 so ill definitely go with that. also my state doesnt let you hunt deer with 22 caliber rifles. it kind of made me not trust 223 for something like that. im sure its deadly but for some reason i just get the "more ethical" feeling from 243
Speaking of hunting I watched your 10 mins video. I have a question, at what age did you start teaching your son to shoot? My son expressed interest in hunting with me and I am trying to figure out how to start him out. I printed out firearm safety rules and told him remember those first. Any suggestions?
depending on maturity of the kid, you could start teaching them with .22 rimfire anywhere from age 6 and up. You can teach them most of what is in the Hunter Education classes a year before they take the class and have them getting used to shooting the centerfire they will be using the first time out. They are growing a lot in that time frame so fitting the gun can be an issue.
Oh, yes, definitely started my kids early on with rimfire. Well before centerfire rifles and Hunter Ed. Before even dropping the hammer on a deer or taking the Hunter Ed course they had the basics down and shooting a gun was natural to them. They also respected what a gun was capable of. I have an early video or two of my son shooting his .22's. Transitioning from rimfire to centerfire was very smooth for him. NRA's Eddie Eagle program is also a great tool for the very young. A great resource. God bless! 🙏 🦌🦌🦌🦃🦃🦃 -Jeff "458 Okie" from the Deerhearse Channel.
I doubted the 223 till I actually used it on deer. 60gr. nosler partitions..made a believer Both rely on bullet selection.. not ballistic ju ju. chose wisely
next up brotha adam . 220 swft and oddball rifle rounds out there possibly ? , you KEEP EM COMING , learning loets brotha , thanks n talk soon n i need/want one of those remington t-shirts in 4x PLEASE , let me know > tom !
In Canada, depending on the provincial rules, you MUST use a shotgun with either rifled slug or BUCKSHOT at range to dispatch a deer. You can use rifles, of course. The use of the shotgun is usually designated for areas where one may come in contact with "civilization". Closer to urbanized rural, shotgun. Closer to the FOREST and the mountains, rifle.
@@WHOTEEWHO I had no idea they could get that big. I was born in Florida & now live in Tennessee. I've ridden dirt bikes all my life & run up onto deer all the time. Never seen one that looked to be over 170lbs. Maybe that's just in my neck of the woods though.
I have an uncle here in Florida that has only hunted deer with a 243 for 35 to 40 years that I know of (while still hunting). he has always neck shot them and I can't remember him ever losing one.
people in AK hunt with near anything , I had a Dr. say he didnt like to see caribou suffer , I told him to use soft points . Now I would say copper slugs .
Gotta watch velocity, below 2k they don’t expand very well. Also need good twist to stabilize. 22-250 would be significant improvement for the extra velocity, but twist is usually an issue unless it’s a custom job there.
All depends on scope height in relation to the bore.....as well as the speed of the round. There's a hell of a difference between sighting in an M4/M16/AR15 with a carry handle sight sitting 3inchs above bore vrs a low mounted optic 1 to 1 1/2 inches above bore. The lower you mount your sights/optics the less curvature path you'll have before your bullet reaches its target (bullets don't actually rise or rainbow, they actually start dropping as soon as they leave the end of the barrel). The curvature is actually a eye relation to the sight height and the target. The proper term is line of sight trajectory......
I like everything you did there except I hardly know anyone that does a 100-yard zero we all use 200 yard zero for hunting. Most people hunt under 300yd which at a 200 yard 0 would allow you to hold on the deer out to 300 yards.
@@WHOTEEWHO I understand but even at a 200 yard zero doesn't even knock your inside 100 yd shots off an inch. Anywho keep up with the awesome content. I may complain a little bit but I still love all your stuff. Lol
Living in Colorado for 35 yrs, .240 is legal and above!! I use THE Mossberg 100 ATR .243 and I use the HORNADY V-MAX 75 gr for Whitetails and Mule deer NO ISSUES WHAT SO EVER PERIOD!!! COLORADO REQUIRES MINIMUM OF.85 gr I USE THE HORNADY V-MAX 87 gr for Elk and NO ISSUES EVER UP TO 350 -400 YRDS! GOOD LUCK HUNTING AND BE SAFE!!
Looking at the speeds of the 223 REM here, they are using a 24“ barrel. So for all the 16-20“ sporting rifles 😁 the numbers will be way worse and load selection will be even more critical. A higher BC high quality hunting load in 223 would be the 70GR ACCUBOND TROPHY GRADE. A BC of .370 is not too shabby, equivalent to a Sierra OTM. With an equivalent 24“ barrel the factory ammo should be at 2850-2900 ft/s, translating to 2435 ft/s and 922 ft-lb at 200 yards. Significant difference to the worst of the lot.
A older friend had shoulder surgery and the most recoil he can handle is a 243. If he can shoot a 243, almost anyone can. So there is no good reason to use a 223.
