@@gibbage1 This whole thing felt like a rush shit show. I am so disappointed. No variety, no refits of older designs. Tells me there is actually a full licensing issue which is why stuff changed so much with Discovery as well. Stupid.
@@thebuckrogers22 nope..There are multiple variants and more so if you count beta cannon and STO which Picard drew from by introducing Verity in the comics..You already have the classic warbird, the valdore class warbird, T'liss warbirds and a whole lot more..
I would rather have 15 Sovereign ships then this mess of a low res fleet. Enterprise E from Nemesis looks like it's done in 2020 and these ships look like they were done in 1998
@@jarrodskufcagaming5203 By 2399?! Not so fast, I'm certain that Sovereign class ships would still be in service. I say this because the Enterprises real world counter part U.S.S. Enterprise CVN 65 was in service from 1961-2012, about 51 years of service. Enterprise E would be in her 27th year at this point. You also have to keep in mind that starfleet keeps their ship classes in service for long periods of time. The Excelsior class, for example, in a time where the Constitution Refit Enterprise was still in service, remained in service to starfleet all the way up too the construction of the Enterprise E in 2372. That is a period of at least 80 years that that particular class has been in service. I'm pretty certain that the Sovereign, Galaxy, Intrepid, Defiant, and other various classes are still in service by this time.
UPRailRoad8718 I would definitely agree with what you said, especially regarding the excelsior class. You also have to think that enterprise e ended up getting an entire refit after nemesis. Besides I read somewhere that the enterprise e had still been zooming about the galaxy up until not long before the start of this show.
The 1999 Birth of the Federation game looks better than this shit. At least that game had variation and the graphics were good for its time, this looks about a decade out of date at least
As a Trekkie and a USNavy veteran I’m noticing that even current day sensibilities are minimalist with regards to ship and aircraft design. You can see variants in the same type of ship. Destroyers and frigates have varied widely - sometimes even within the same class as the IRL “greeblies” (such as the gun and radar mounts) are modular and this mounted differently for whatever reason.
Nah, the holographic interfaces look so cheap, they probably got some teenager still in American college (I'm in UK, so I like to differentiate) to design them. My belief is that all the money, was actually spent, on LENS FLARE!
@@John-wj4dp Yeah, pretty much. You lose power on a warship bridge, nothing will save you, because all the controls would be dead no matter how they're constructed. In the real world you might still have some control from engineering... But on a starship if your power fails you're in trouble anyway. I think your control panels not working would be the least of your problems. Notice however that the starfleet ships did NOT appear to use holographic controls? The La Sirena is a civilian ship, not a warship. I don't like the holographic controls, but I feel this actually makes a degree of sense - a civilian ship may be more into being flashy than being practical, while a military (or pseudo-military, given star trek's insistence that starfleet isn't military) would be more focused on practicality and reliability, even if it means holding on to older tech much longer... The holographic displays seem so dumb though. You could've gone with adaptive 3d controls that provide adaptable ergonomics (think a system where you get a joystick when you need it, and some kind of trackball in other situations, and so on - controls that physically change shape to suit conditions). Instead we got floating monitors in midair, which serves... What purpose, exactly?
Is it a bad design? No. It is an ok mid-size frigate. But is it boring? Yes. And overused. This is lazy...which is par to the course for Picard. EDIT: Had a thought. If they say it was a modular ship, with swappable parts due to the loss of their shipyards limiting multiple classes, it MIGHT make sense. Doesn't mean the model is good...but it could be a cool story element.
given it was a planet with one settlement and the Romulans supposedly are a covert operation you could have scaled it down to one Warbird and one Star Trek ship and suddenly get suspense!
@@mangalores-x_x Yep. And even in context with just the La Sirena there, it wouldn't have taken much at all. (well, aside from the borg cube that was crashed into the planet) 3-4 ships would have already been overwhelming force given the defenses that planet has... There was no reason to use 200+ OK, so we don't have the technical limitations of the 90's. We CAN do over the top things. Fine. Make it 15 ships then. But nope. That's too restrained for them... XD
Fun fact: in TNG they revealed that a powerful enough tractor beam from one ship could destabilize tectonic plates enough to destroy a planet. One cruiser had enough firepower to level a continent. For a relatively unguarded planet, the Romulans only needed one big ship. 3-5 to catch escaping vessels tops. But instead, we get a massive fleet of tiny ships, so they could have a Star Wars battle.
Is it just me or does STO have ship models that look better than this? Would it have been that difficult to raid STO's catalog to get some design variation?
That's literally what they did, only they went with unused designs and even half assed those. I wish they raided the STO story archive too, they're way better than the crap we got in this show. They even do a better job of linking this with Discovery and explaining all the stupid shit we've had to put up with since the JJ reboot.
To be fair, we got a similar thing in Ent. When Archer threatens the raiders attacking the cargo vessel. 'Take a good look at this ship, because there'll be a lot more coming'.
@@mattevans4377 Which there was one ship. Now imagine in that scene another 50 idendical new superships turned up each of which was stronger than the nx01. It is pretty bad writing.
@@curseofgladstone4981 I'm not denying that. I'm just saying the intent behind having a powerful ship, and showing it off, isn't bad, it just has to be earned. And that is, in fact, the difference. That moment was earned, whereas the Picard one, wasn't.
@@mattevans4377 Look at the state of these ships. Too many exactly the same. Ugly, badly designed, and no massive Enterprise F scale ships. You get no sense that the Federation is ridiculously powerful. Oh and sticking Riker on the bridge was ridiculous too. People talk about canon and the Enterprise F not being available yet. Such a minor thing in canon i don't care.
@Emmanuel Goldstein I think immersion comes down to writing. People are willing to forgive inaccuracies compared to what would happen in reality, if the writing is good. If it isn't, prepare for a savage kicking.
I feel it was such a waste. It looks good but we almost got a swarm of fighter-shuttles like in Discovery. I wish it was the Enterprise-E/F and Captain Worf.
Besides the Avenger in Star Trek Armada, did Worf ever command the Defiant again after he accidentally destroyed that (empty) Klingon passenger ship? I recall Sisko noting that as a result of the incident, it would be unlikely that he would be offered his own command.
You have to make it like avengers. More things all over the screen all then things everywhere fill the screen. Because that is what makes it totally epic- Alex Kurtzman
Or just "red alert", given all that happens as a matter of course with said command. It's almost like the writers only saw a few episodes of Trek in the past and misremember most of it and confuse it with other sci-fi they've seen before and since so it's all just mushed up in there.
EXACTLY. I’m a Trekkie and Star Wars fan and immediately thought of the latter. They’re crossing the fucking universe beams. Deflectors in Star Trek are clearly “Deflector Dishes”, a component of the ship for navigation. Not the fucking shield array. But deflectors in Star Wars are clearly shields. It’s disgusting.
R Human true but at least it was made by paramount and nothing random out of a video library, imagine the v’ger scene existing nothing but stock footage
you cant feel anything. because they thouroughly established the way picard will be revived. and he dies 10 meters away from it. in a village of people that have a tool that can repair anything. THERE CANT BE TENSION
Picard dies and then he's back five minutes later in an Android body no less. I'm almost certain this will never come up in the next season either. He will just be regular Picard all over again. Besides you knew they weren't going to kill him due to there being a plan for having at least two seasons. But he's old and corona virus could kill him anyway so it might all be for nothing.
The picard dying thing seems to have been a bit absurd since we knew there'd be a loophole, which undermines the point of it. the thing with Data was at least interesting... Frankly my main gripe with Picard is... It's a nothing story. It's 3 episodes of content stretched over 10 episodes... Why is that a thing in modern TV? As if stretching things out makes stuff better by default? Well, it doesn't.
I think that they wanted to use Discovery ships here originally, but after the negative fans reactions after seeing these ships in short trek episode set in 24. century, we got this copy paste fleet.
Not to mention Picard's staff didn't manage their budget properly to make new CGI models. They are using items you can buy at your local hardware store as props in the show. And buying stock footage video from archive websites. I'm not sure where all the money is going, but they clearly aren't managing their budget properly.
The same level of sense, as in getting there faster than travel to the nearest Starbase. In TOS, space felt big, and out of reach of command even via sub space communications meant the Captain on site had to make the decisions. Assembling a fleet or even a taskforce took time and strategy. It wasn't something you could just deploy at less than a days notice.
The whole scene felt like they were adding more ships for the sake of scale and tension. Honestly I would have preferred they dialed back the amount of ships for the sake of realism. With the way Star trek is the romulans should have detected a fleet that size coming long before they arrived. Regarding the design style, it would have made sense to throw in older style ships. I didn't think the design was bad but it definitely felt like it was designed for the sake of dramatic angles and not logically lay it out.
I'm just going to dream that they use quantum slip stream drives. An that the romulans not only haven't cracked the technology themselves, they are unable to track ships using it.
If the Romulus have been so decimated how the hell do they manage to have that many ships in the first place, there is no way they wouldn’t still be using older styles. I mean the valdore class ships were brand freaking new in nemesis, never before seen. Where the hell are they? And why give us that gorgeous view of the D in the first episode then hand us this crap, they used the D they have to have most of the models for starfleet ships as they’ve been added to STO, so why not pull those models and clean them up to look movie worthy?
The problem is that you have people who don't know of love Star Trek running things. They also don't know how a battle fleet is made up of ALL different ships.
It hasn't helped that for the whole history of Star Trek, entire franchise has basically been run on a shoestring budget. In the original series episode, The Doomsday Machine, the special effects folks used a AMT/ERTL model of the USS Enterprise to portrayed her sister ship,the Constellation in that episode, complete with a hastily (and rather poorly) rearranged registry number. In another episode, The ultimate computer, more special effects trickery was used to depict the fleet made up of constitution-class ships that counter attack the Enterprise when the M5 computer malfunctioned. TNG was notorious for reusing starship models dating back to the Excelsior from the Search for Spock to depict a fleet much larger and more advanced then what we saw on screen. Deep space nine was something of an improvement, as it depicted a larger,more advanced,much more diverse fleet of ships then what we saw in the past, but you still got a whole lot of older classes, and didn't get to see a whole lot of Sovereigns,Intrepids or Defiant-class ships. what we saw on Picard wouldn't be the first time in Star Trek history that someone just copied a whole lot of existing ships to depict a more massive and powerful fleet. It's just a more high-tech version of something we've seen in the past. It's always been easier for CBS / Paramount Viacom to simply do special effects on the cheap whenever possible been to invest the kind of money necessary to depict anything even remotely close to realistic or plausible.
These ships are missing a bright blue Federation deflector, and the warp nacelles are something out of discovery, they are not modern federation sleek nacelle design.
This is what happens when you don't manage your budget properly. We get a "copy paste" fleet. And props that you can buy at your local hardware store. And stock footage from archive websites. I'm not sure where the money is going but they clearly aren't managing their budget properly.
The best part is that a lot of the ship variety in past Star Trek's fleets (and also Star Wars's) were literally the result of the practical effects team going on tours of the local hardware store or even of a supermarket and turning the most much mundane of objects into low res background ships. Yet despite all the money CBS has they cannot surpass the ingenuity of a passionate and low budget team.
@@bcluett1697 I no longer hold out for the Odyssey to make an appearance. Since these Avenger wannabees are the "fastest and most powerful" Starfleet vessels ever, it wouldn't make sense to have another class that outperforms these monstrosities.
Deep Space Nine is still hands down the best series! GREAT ships! GREAT battles! GREAT writing! Secondly, the fleet should have included other classes ...Defiant Class, Intrepid Class...
@@provisionalhypothesis No, but take a step back and look at what the US military still has in service... F-16. 46 years old F-18. 41 years old A-10 43 years old B-52 67 years old. US navy vessels: Vessels dating to 1970 are still in service. dozens of ships from the 1980's are still around. How about civilian ships? The Queen Elizabeth 2 was in service from 1969 to 2008. 39 years The 'Koningin Beatrix' which was originally a RoRo ferry between 'hoek van holland' and Harwich... While no longer used for that purpose... Was built in 1986. It has been renamed twice, first to Stena Baltica, then to SNAV Adriatico, but it's still in operation to this day, 34 years later. Don't like ships? How about trains. England still has the IC125, dating to 1975 in active service. (45 years) Similarly, Australia has it's derivative of that design, first introduced in 1981 operating. And while the british trains were built over a bunch of years and the newest ones are the primary ones still in use, the Australian ones were ALL brought into service at around the same time. So they are 39 years old - not just the design, but the actual train. German first generation ICE. Expected to be in mainstream service in 2025. Introduced in 1990. That means the expected lifespan is at a bare minimum 35 years. The older class 103 locomotives, while not in general use since 2003, are still held in reserve. They date to 1965 The average age for vehicle designs used commercially seems to be 30-50 years. Military designs are used for a similar period. Star Trek secondary sources suggest official 'design life' of ships of about 100 years. This is borne out by the Miranda, oberth and Excelsior class ships seen constantly throughout TNG and DS9. By DS9 you'd be looking at these ships being 80 years old roughly. If the design life is accurate you would expect them to have been finally withdrawn from service around 2390. Picard is set in 2399 The galax class dates to 2361 The defiant class is a similar age. Sovereign and Intrepid classes are about a decade newer than that. Based on historical trends in the real world you'd expect some of these classes to still be in use. Based on trends within the show itself you'd DEFINITELY expect them to still be in use. I personally have fairly consistently been driving cars that are 15-20 years old by the way. There's usually no real good reason to stop using an old vehicle other than 'ooh, shiny new!' And when it comes to vehicles used by militaries or commercial entities, if it doesn't last at least 30 years it was probably junk to begin with. Particularly well designed vehicles will be in use quite a bit longer than that...
@@provisionalhypothesis In DS9, the fleet featured in 'Sacriface of Angels' comprised of Reliant Class from the movie Kirk era, aswell as Excelisor Class ships. It's just a matter of retro fitting where possible.
Remember this when you realize cbs is spending 10 million per episode. If you account for inflation in 2020, TNG had a budget of 2.5 million per episode.
Classic example of throwing money at something does not make it better. If there’s no love for the source material then it doesn’t matter if it’s 1 or 10 mil spent per eposide.
And it sort of works, if it hadn't been in Discovery first. I keep saying this, but the Discovery designs would be fine, had they been 25th century designs, and not 23rd century designs.
To be fair, since it's set after DS9 and VOY, Star Trek Online designs should actually fit the era pretty well, since STO is chronologically closest to Picard.
@@michaelmartin9022 It does. It has to. The drive just warps the space - not move it. The ship itself is moving at sublight speed, which only becomes FTL outside of the warp field because the warped, "shortened" space passes by in less time...hence the stretched appearance of vessels entering and exiting warp.
@@mito-pb8qg that's really illogical reasoning, almost all star trek movies had special effects by George Lucas's company Industrial lights and magic. It's because people think it looks cool, not because the star war person snuck into the star treks room and replace the warp_in _effect.lwo with hyperspace_jump in_effect.lwo
Got to disagree with your comments about "raising deflectors", Star Trek has often crossed used Shields and Deflectors as interchangeable terms in multiple shows and movies.
If there is anything that this series excels at is the sheer ugliness of its ships. The Federation fleet is composed of the most revolting designs I have yet seen in any Star Trek production. They barely resemble Starfleet vessels, barely. When I saw them I realized all hope was lost to redeem the series. There is no more vision left. Truly sad.
We can all wish for the Odyssey to be cannon until the cows come home but they won't do it. They're charting their own course with this series just like Discovery.
@@jamesaron1967 And,in retrospect, using the Odyssey class design as Picard's flagship in the prequel comic was probably just as lazy as what was depicted on screen.
I can just hear Chabon laughing as we talking about the lack of variety in the fleets that he presented in this episode. And then he's going to turn around and say, "what do you mean? I gave you variety. There are different ships there. Look at the nacelles and the struts!" While inside he's getting off at how pissed he's made us all.
The thing that hits me right off is the color... remember when Starfleet ships were bright white or slight variations of it, now they all seem to be dirty greys. It's a classic movie trope that good guys where white... I guess as the Federation becomes dark and dystopian so do their ships.
You actually look at models of the TNG ships and you see they're shades of blue and green. XD The official enterprise D model I had said to paint it in a mixture of grey, duck egg blue and a shade of green whose name I've forgotten...
The whole sequence with Riker's armada felt like if it was designed at the last minute. It's a shame that the show continues to carry the JJ-Trek aesthetic, big flashy lights and dark grey hull. They also have a weird Battlestar vibe.
From the same family at least. It doesn't have the dual neck or the squared off nacelles. The saucer shape definitely has that vibe. The new guy could do with the deflector glowy as well.
This reminds me of the Insignia-class except that the Insignia-class had a round saucer and was more or less flat. It also looks like a cross between a Nova-class and the Galactica.
Copy paste ship battles are really really getting out of hand WTF is happening to mainstream Scifi is beyond me I actually miss the times when they didn't have the budget because they where forced to be creative Less Is More!
I think it's partially a consequence of producers thinking they need to outdo whatever came before. Bigger, more ships, more chaos! I also think today's writers have zero desire to choreograph space battles when today's peak TV is supposed to be all about characters and spectacle.
Actually they did same thing on TOS in the episode The Ultimate Computer during the war game scene. You would think a navy like Star Fleet have more than one class of ship. Instead, they were all Constitution class. Essentially the original Enterprise with different name and registry on the hull. The bridges were all redressed set of the original Enterprise from TOS. It was not until Star Trek Wrath of Khan, when they introduce the Miranda class, and Star Trek: Search for Spock when they introduced the Oberth and Excelsior not to mentioned a completly new Klingon Ship,. the Brel Class Bird of Prey. The Ktinga class from Star Trek The Motion Picture was essentially a redressed D7 Battle Class from TOS.
Honestly, I wouldn't even be mad at that. Maybe he transferred to the last ever Galaxy in service, and pimped it out like in 'All Good Things...' to keep it in service. They could of then altered the Galaxy class CGI model we saw in episode 1 to be like that, minimal effort required. Just have the one though, to let it be the 'hero' ship.
@@mattevans4377 Hell even if they had maybe just 3 ship types. 1 which is clearly the hero ship. Galaxy refit or rikers ship etcetera. Next a handful of other heavy capital ship battle cruisers etc that are those new fairly advanced ships. Finally a crap ton of lighter maranda esque ships. Lots of ships and would probobly fit a bit better without too much more work.
@@mattevans4377 I can imagine the Galaxy being the Miranda of the era, they had loads of them and they're great modular foundations for multiple mission profiles and are still decently capable ships even this long into their life. We should have seen a few of them at least. Look how many they had during the Dominion war, they clearly had lots and not all were destroyed. Most were probably on deep space exploration missions like the Enterprise. They could have been pulled back to more inner system patrol roles etc as newer more capable classes started to roll out. They would make EXCELLENT support ships too given their massive size. Also what happened to all the Nebula class ships that were basically reconfigured Galaxy's for the above kind of roles?
@@John-wj4dp Yeah, federation seems to keep things in use for about a century. Fun fact: That means the Excelsiors and Mirandas were still with us until about 2390... There really is no good reason, given past precedent for the show, why designs that are 30-40 years old like the Galaxy, Defiant, Intrepid and Sovereign wouldn't still be in active use. Maybe not with as much prestige as they would have had when they were new. (though I imagine commanding a Galaxy class ship is still a big deal just because of how huge they are.) Plus as DS9 demonstrated, you can keep upgrading old ships as long as the basic frame is still in good shape. (see the Excelsior class ship with Quantum torpedoes.)
Why should they care? They could create real, actual spaceships THAT WORK, and build an entire fleet, and then have clones of the greatest artists of history hand etch every square inch of the hull with the finest quality art in human history... and the various internet leech channels would bitch that it isn't as good as TNG. Pearl's before swine.
Guys, at about 4 minute mark, you were speaking about the TWO different ship types based on their nacelles only. If you look at the upper right photo on the screen at that time, the two ships shown do have different nacelles, but also have different lower hull shapes as well. I think that, despite the nacelles, thsat there are more ship styles in the battle, not just two. Of course, I could be wrong, but the lower hulls do look different to me.
I thought so too... but in his recent Instagram post responding to questions from fans, Michael Chabon stated the Zheng He, & her sister ships, are Curiosity class starships... as was the Ibn Majid supposedly...
@@danieljones8559 Considering the stardate, this is more likely a Proto-Avenger. I could see the Avenger being a later evolution of these vessels' design concepts. And it would make sense for these to be early Battlecruisers to mesh with Riker's boasting. The Federation experimenting with the idea originally represented by the Defiant. Scary on paper. Needs time to ferment to reach its true flavor.
I know we are complaining about Star Trek Cannon but I will point out that Star Trek is based on US and UK Naval Standards. In the US Navy there is no ship in the current fleet that is THE Flag Ship of the Navy (except maybe the USS Constitution which is our oldest Commissioned Ship). The Lead ship in any Battle or Strike Groups is the Flag Ship. it's usually a carrier or lead Assault Ship. It is called the "Flag Ship" because it has the "Flag Officer" who is commanding the Battle or Strike Group aboard here. That ship flies the flag or pennant for that "Flag Officer". Normally a Flag Officer is a 1 or 2 Star Rear Admiral. However, in rare occasions that officer could be a Commodore, which in today's US Navy is usually a senior Captain. Because the Flagship is not Enterprise does not mean that Enterprise is not still out there as a Flagship of another fleet or group.
DS9 stock footage would have been preferable. If they are this broke would it not have made sense to reuse some old CG models? Also it was strange Riker is still a captain yet he commanded the fleet.. No offense to the people who like this show but I hope season 2 doesn't happen...
eh. Why not. I looked up the ship registry of my own country's navy and came to the surprising realisation that of 45 ships, only two were commanded by someone with the rank of 'Captain'. Of the 45 ships listed, alongside their commanding officers... 3 have no commanding officer listed, 2 have captain in charge, 17 have a commander, and the rest are operating with a Lieutenant Commander in charge. In that kind of context having a captain at the head of a fleet wouldn't seem so strange. This is a task force, not a permanent fleet anyway. So Acting captain Riker is commanding a task force. This also happened in TNG (the fleet that was keeping the romulans from aiding the klingons had Picard in charge), and DS9 (the battle in Sacrifice of Angels was being led by Captain Sisko) The fleet in First contact had an admiral in charge, but Picard took over. Seems pretty common Star Trek for fleets to operate with a Captain in charge rather than an Admiral...
What people who liked the show? I have yet to see one online... The best I can muster is a grudging respect for what they aiming for, a variation of the Roddenberry fallen Federation idea that birthed us Andromeda, but the execution was bungled in every imaginable way. So much so that this should be taught in film schools as a cautionary tale. I too actually hope that season 2 is quietly dropped or the show is completely retooled.
I think technically Picard is commanding the fleet as he's the Admiral/Diplomat overseeing the 1st contact. But you're right, you don't have to hold a Captain's rank to be THE captain of a vessel.
I watched the last episode with my roommates on the big screen in the living room and I just went "YES!" followed by half a second of silence, followed immediately by a louder "F*CK!" when I realized what happened. We got gypped for new ship designs!
I have a theory. These 3 variants for them in universe. These ships were purposely designed with a basic same hull design on purpose. For ease of production and modification and use. This choice of standardizing a specific hull choice was likely as a stop gap to fill the numbers of starfleet ships with what ever ship yards were still being in use after the destruction of the ships yards on and around MARS. Think for a little bit of the situation. A unknown virus or uprising of AI suddenly destroyed the majority of your most important facilities and yards you use to build your most advanced ships and a significant portion of your ships around the shipyard was destroyed or damaged as well. Well some of your larger more capable ships might be repairable or safe during the attack the ability to maintain and or service them just became limited to member worlds who may or may not have the capabilities to maintain them. Those large ships are more valuable at home or in specific member worlds. Those that can be sent in for service and repair or refits will only be able to use the few docks and dry docks available meaning its going to be quite a while before your remaining original fleet is up to date or serviced. During this time you need to build up your fleet a number of your smaller vessels was destroyed and even moth balled ones being refit for use in emergency operations for Romulus was destroyed in the attacks. You need to build up your fleet with the available yards around the territory. Many of them likely uses smaller yards to service smaller ships to maintain smaller ships like the Akaira or the Intrepid. You have no idea of any future attacks you have no idea of the enemy capabilities, you know the enemy was quick to use ai against you and your own drones and similar so your expect a external attack at some point and your fellow empires are watching your own Empire like Vultures and worry. So you likely send out a order for a ship design that is quick to build basically bare-bones design, that can be modified for a number of uses. Its boring, its not individualistic, its very practical and its quick to build but more importantly almost every shipyard in your territory will be able to work on it. This design would be that choice. One that's basically a box able to quickly deploy shuttles or fighters or drones, one that's basically a cruiser armed to the teeth and likely there is several others not listed. The Warp Nacelles I can't really describe. I'm assuming some are armored some are not. The exhaust ports behind them is consistent with JJ trek but could be explained in Universe as the Federation finally achieving Trans-warp Drives. Which apparently is the same drive TOS Kelvin Ships all achieved from the scans with the Narada.
There is a lot of discussion on other videos (bear in mind I have not seen the full video yet) where starfleet built a dedicated class of ships for battle fleets sort of like how most of the empire’s ships in Star Wars are just the big bulky imperial class star destroyer and occasionally an interdictor class as well as a light cruiser.
Which is a flawed concept in SW as well. That's why the old EU spent so much time filling out the various fleets. In military terms going with 1 ship to do everything just means it wont do anything very well
It may have been mentioned all ready but modern day naval vessels have intense variation with in a single class due to modularity required for rapidly changing missions. Even within the aircraft carrier fleet you can see differences between individual ships of the same class - often ones later in production due to upgrades designed during the construction process. Also - think about the ease of repair if most of you fleet is a single but flexible class of ship. It's quite pragmatic.
'Commodore' is really a title of position, rather than a rank in the scheme of promotion. A senior captain or rear admiral may be called 'commodore' when in command of a detached squadron, in the same way that an officer in command of a vessel is usually called 'captain' by courtesy, regardless of rank (which might be anything from senior lieutenant to captain, or 'post-captain' in Royal Navy parlance). But maybe Starfleet does things differently. Commodore Oh seemed to have that rank on permanently..which would be the equivalent of rear admiral (rear adm-lower half in the US Navy & Coast Guard, ie. one-star flag officer) in the humble 21st century.
@@Bill23799 Heyhey! I'm Army, too...I just read too many Patrick O'Brien & Horatio Hornblower books. And I got a little military rank decoder app' on my phone..
They absolutely dropped the ball on those ships. By the time of this episode even the oldest Galaxy class ship would have been "only" around 40 years old. Assuming operational lifespans like todays aircraft carriers of at least 50 years, I think there's a high probability that even the USS Galaxy herself is still in service, and the same should be true for many ships belonging to the classes introduced in TNG, DS9, VOY. We still saw Excelsior and Miranda class vessels fight in the Dominion war and those ship classes were about 100 years old, so by 2399 ship classes like the Galaxy, Nebula, Steamrunner, Akira, Intrepid, Defiant, Souvereign or Prometheus class should be far from being outdated, so any sizeable fleet should actually contain lots of ships from some of these classes. Adding insult to injury, PIC itself established events that make it even more likely that those closes are still a major part of the fleet. When Mars was attacked Starfleet had already switched a huge part of it's ressources to building that armada of rescue ships to save the romulans for a while, meaning that at that point, just 6 years after Nemesis, they had already suspended most of their regular ship construction and research, meaning older ships would have been required to remain in service longer. And the fact that Starfleet lost it's primary ship building and development location in those attacks (Mars is supposedly STILL burning), their capacity to build new ships would also be impacted, again leading to more old ships in service. Don't have the time and budget for proper new ships? Then hide them in the background and load up some of the old, much more detailed models. Starfleet showing up was such a HUGE opportunity to not only give us new ships (resulting in licensing and merchandising), but to again play into the nostalgia by drawing it all closer together with ship classes we know and love. It was also the missed opportunity to finally show the Souvereign class in an epic fleet, as well as a missed opportunity to finally show us the famed USS Titan onscreen or fully canonize the Odyssey class or whatever similar class the USS Verity in the Prelude comics was. And what about the ship class of the USS Ibn Majid? That silhouette of the ship on Rios' box probably received more attention than the epic fail they called Starfleets strongest ships ever. I absolutely love the show, I enjoyed every minute but I don't understand how they could f*ck the most important part for the connection to the Star Trek Universe up so badly. I really hope they replace those shots with something proper for the DVD/Blu-ray release and update the streams. But probably that is the last thing they are gonna do. Maybe some fan will.
Reminded me one of the Orville endings were the fleet was made up of identical ships... Disappointing, it's not a bad design but they have so many ships they could have included from past series, it just didn't make any sense within the Star Trek universe....
Maybe a good in-universe explaination would be that the Federation decided to mass produce this ship with tiny variations to be a more efficient use of Star Fleet resources, especially to be able come up with the massive number of ships at this encounter.
Another great video. That one design you showed looked like the Arbiter Class from STO. Another looked similar to one of the variants of the Sovereign Class.
Riker said that the ships were the most advanced starfleet vessels ever constructed, so I figured that the ships were covered in armor plating, as that's how they look with the entire nacelle covered. So perhaps the details do come in after they are not in a battle; like in the last episode of VOY, when she covers herself in hull plating. I can see the upcoming ENT-J angle from the back.
Its a shame. Star Trek is synonymous for its ships. A lot of the fans love a ship design.... and Picard had very few. Was expecting a big reveal in episode 10.. and although we got that 'moment' with Riker turning up... the ship which was of HUGE interest to the fans was not really featured at all. It was just confused, busy shots where nothing was shown in any detail. (obviously on purpose I feel) Of course we were all hoping to see the Odyssey class ship on screen... and hoping that we'd see the Enterprise F for the first time... but I recall Patrick Stewarts stipulation that there be no Enterprise in the series (boo). This scene would have been far better had Riker shown up in a ship (enterprise F) - given the enterprise has always been the flagship of the fleet its a shame that seems to be no longer the case... and we got a great beauty flyby of that ship like we have had in all the series and movies of the hero ships.... and then a few moments later we had a 'you and what army' moment then the rest of the fleet warps in and muddies the waters with their numbers.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Patrick Stewart was the one who stipulated that there be no new Enterprise in the series, then at least for the time being, he's dead to me now.
These slight variants make sense in a way. If you want to turn out a large number of ships in a short time span, then it makes sense to find one standard platform that satisfies your core needs and then you can develop variants based on that (Riker says that they're the most advanced, heavily armed ships in the fleet, so as a platform to base variants on it's pretty good). Repairs become easier because most parts are interchangeable, and the rate at which you can turn them out is improved because you don't need to retool. Starfleet has become more war focused, and the design takes into account lessons learned when fighting the Borg and the Dominion, it's not the best rendered, but they're on screen for seconds. I would have loved to see fewer ships with more variation, and i would have adored it if the Enterprise F was leading this fleet, but there you are.
not impressed at all by the visuals of this and looking back at Discovery era ships they all had much more detail to them. For some reason this one looks very blocky to me, like it was made out of lego's. Nacelles looked quite similar to the Vengance ones from Star Trek Into Darkness movie. More Kelvin connections there? IDK, for me this just feels too generic and anything but like something Starfleet in this time period would build. They should have taken a look at some more modern STO ships and used those models because all of those look 100 times better than this. Really dissapointed. And let's not even talk about the bridge, that was all blurry, no detail, like something straight from Kelvin or Discovery. Really bad editing choice for what could have been the best scene in the entire season. Really disappointing and doesn't bode well for the future of the show and how the ships will be depicted in it going forward
It reminded me of the Enterprise E with a different primary hull and some clunky looking nacelles slapped on it.At Least (My fav girl) the USS Vengeance has a reason to have armoured nacelles and odd as she is I kinda lover her over the top nature, this isn't so extreme it's just kinda there. I suppose if I was being kind someone might come up with something like this if they wanted to start with the Odyssey class and shrink it down a bit. It's so poorly lit though it's hard to get a good look at what it actually looks like really.
They should do a ship of the week contest to flesh out the new star fleet. Fans send in designs and the show runners pick the best ones and add them to the show, along with designs from Next gen, DS9 and Voyager
This fleet was my biggest disappointment of the entire first season of Picard. I was so looking forward to seeing new Starfleet ships... and then we got this copy/pasta armada...
Over all the years we have seen auto turrets, long range missiles, mines, drone ships, holographic decoys; but whenever there is a big battle they simply through up two lines of ships against each other in a cabinet warfare style anno 1812.
