After the so-called "burn" why did Starfleet not adopt a Romulan warp core design, using a quantum singularity and does not rely on dilithium crystals? That's odd.
Sadly, I don't believe the writers for the new show are willing to dig that deep into Star Trek lore. They only know "Dilithium Crystal" & "Warp Drive"
You raise a logical point. Let's hope the writers get a tap on the shoulder, and reminded of this. I suspect though, that we should get an answer to this question soon.
Given the time travel and other tech shown by Starfleet in 29th - 31st century, per Voyager & Enterprise; they would've also known what was coming and how to avoid it... but then again, this is the team behind the Transformers movies, so um, yea, writing isn't their strong suit. Neither are original ideas, being that they stole Season 1 from an indie game on Steam, and now they're basically remaking Andromeda. :-/ Edit: The dumbest thing seems to be how the Discovery seems to be relatively on par w/ the tech of the 32nd century; even despite "The Burn". It would be like us being impressed by a late Roman empire chariot or spear. Daniels was able to use a 22nd century comms device and *a large copper spoon* to build an inter-time communications device / hologram, and interface to a 26th century time travel holographic communicator and somehow allow Archer to teleport through it - AND he said that *all* Earth/Federation children learned how to build stuff like that in grade school.
because dilithium is not a power source, its a catalyst used for matter-animatter annihilation which is used to create warpfields, and therefore also used by the romulans, regardless of the actual source of the power.
@@jenshep1720 ummm... you kinda proved the 2nd sentence wrong with the 1st sentence. It's canon from TNG/DS9/VOY that dilithium is strictly used to regulate the matter/antimatter reaction in the warp core (power source), and that the romulans do not use antimatter or dilithium (they use a quantum singularity aka artificial black hole). Per TOS/TNG/VOY/ENT/etc, the warp fields are created by the warp coils in the nacelles.... that's the entire point of the nacelles. They are giant rows of coils that somehow create the field. Has *nothing* to do with the power source.
I guess a future design aesthetic of the future are pieces of the ship that don't physically connect, but are still bound to the main structure in some way, perhaps a field of some sort.
Another design school seems to be the integration of the nacelles directly into the hull. Or at least that's what those "horns" on some of the Halo Saucers could possibly be if those are ships. As for those with seemingly separate Nacelles, they could be held by some sort of energy field that also helps induct power to them, or it could that they are physically connected to the saucer just not in anyway we can see. Possibly using some form of 31st century metamaterial or advanced dimensional physics.
Would be interesting if at some point they come across the wreck of an Enterprise J class ship being used as a colony. With it being as big as it is I could see the descendents of the crew makeshifting it I to a lifeboat space station.
Ironically the ship profile in the ships of the Line calander says its a flying colony starship. It's a advanced sequel to the original Galaxy class mission profile.
@@kilowolf5488 400 years. But the point they were making was that it was the last traditional starfleet ship that was shown to be from the future. So these designs are supposed to be even MORE advanced.
@@mabiniss2 the 26th century would be 2500-2599.same as TOS was in the 23rd century starting in 2265 or something. So that makes the J 500-600 years old at the time of the burn. For example, we are currently in the 21st century even though the year is 2020
@@Optimistprime. I took it to be every Active Warp, because they said the Dilithium went inert then the Warp Cores blew. And the Warp Drives in the Federation need working Dilithium to be at Warp.
@@jurigagarin5741 I've only seen the opening where Michael explains that in The Burn Dilithium went inert then all the active Warp Cores exploded. That would mean they weren't at Warp, which that scene heavily inferred.
I am actually really happy with that "most retro" Starfleet ship for lack of a better word. I do wanna see that in more detail, maybe an episode where we meet a stranded ship of that class, or maybe even just an eaglemoss model
I'm glad someone took the time to design a varied Federation fleet for the far future timeline. (I wish the "cut & paste" Federation fleet seen in ST Picard had more variety like this.)
I mean, given the design philosophy shift from big Galaxy class type to small specialized Defiant and Intrepid type, I think the Picard fleet makes perfect sense...
@@personzorz wait holds up, how does that make any sense, more smaller specialized ships means more classes. The picard fleet seemed to be 3 ship subclasses all around sovereign size.
the first thing that comes to mind for me with the ones that look the MOST Starfleet (the ones you say kinda look like Oberths) was the NX Refit. When I see that shape, it's the very first thing I think of. especially the side view.
To me they look like: 1st ship: Discovery saucer with the nacelles from the intel cruiser from STO 2nd ship: Minbari Cruiser from Babylon 5 3rd ship: USS Vancouver from Lower Decks but with nacelle pylons placement inverted and differing nacelles 4th pic, upper right is ABSOLUTELY the Andromeda class from Andromeda. Not so sure about the others. 5th pic, lower: The Intel Cruiser from STO with a few lights at the rear.
The one that is swept back and elongated reminds me of TNG when the Ship would go into warp during the Open Credits. How it would stretch (from our view point) as the warp drive sort of spooled up.
I found several of these ship designs on Google image searches. Actually several of the images look like they came from the ENTERPRISE K design. There are a couple of ' K ' designs, but there is one which looks like it has an open saucer section, like those circular shaped Star Wars ships in Phantom Menace, or the USS VENGENCE ship from ST: Into Darkness. Another one has a similar shape from a different angle, which even says " 32nd Century " ship in the title. You guys did a great job on this video. I really enjoyed it a lot...!!!!
@@josephbryant8799 The massive fleet confrontation scene was the exact same model copied lots and lots of times with little or no variation. Personally, I thought it was still pretty cool, but it was also lazy and uninspired, and a lot of people didn't like that fact, as interesting as the ship model itself looked.
@@OfficialHexcraft I thought the ships themselves were amazing and the fact they were all the same class was no more an offense than in TOS or TNG, where we saw models for both Federation and alien ships re-used countless times. Would I have liked it if it were like DS9, with multiple different ships, yes, but that doesn't mean it's lazy or bad if that wasn't the case.
@@josephbryant8799 Technology of today breaks Secret Hideout's Star Trek free from the constraint of physical models. However with regards to SH-STP, when a full CGI effect is required that will likely never be used in any other show, except STP, then it pays the producer to not invest when his other shows are going overbudget filming extra scenes. Star Trek is a futuristic period piece. When you see a Constitution, or a Galaxy, you know what era your in. So unless they intend to treat that ship as an Excelsior workhorse, it can only ever appear in STP's timeline, and perhaps an extra 100-150 years down the line depending on the lore it is provided... So seeing as STD has gone waaaay into the future, the number of times that CGI asset can be benefitted from by adding it into a scene is severely limited. If STP gets another season then I'd expect to see it there... but with the direction of story telling where the writers are trying to get away from the traditional Star Fleet and leave room to rebuild it with a new overarching ethos... I don't expect we'll see many, if any Star Fleet ships... So SH built a ship that would appear once. Spending time and money on more ships for that sequence would be throwing good money after bad.
Good video guys! I am hoping to see some future close ups of Starfleet Ships in up and coming episodes of Discovery. There are couple interesting looking designs here 🖖
Someone may already have stated this but did Enterprise not already show that dimensional displacement should already be available to them so the ships may look about the size of a Galaxy class or Akira but have the internal space of the Enterprise J! Also when the burn occurred maybe ships at warp or with an active warp core might be destroyed but when traveling at sublight the core is largely powered down and reducing the explosion to a degree the ship could survive?
They'd still have the Warp Cores active in case they needed to make an emergency jump to Warp. And if their Dilithium has been rendered inert, then their Warp Cores would be active yet incapable of Warp travel.
@@garygcrook What I mean is they may not have had an active power draw from the system and so the crystals were not by balancing the matter Anti-Matter. I don't think hot stand by would have an effect... Maybe! 😂
@@derekrankin7842 My point is that Federation ships need Dilithium to go to Warp, and if it's been rendered inert then they'd quickly drop out of Warp. The Warp Cores would still be powered up and active, just unable to power Warp speeds. Even Hot Standby isn't fully powered up and active, it's just the point from where you can become fully powered and active in a matter of seconds. If these ships had to be at Warp in order to explode, then what about those ships using Quantum Slipstream? Wouldn't they have avoided exploding? Seems they did explode as well, which makes me think it has to do with the Warp Drive and not Warp Speed. Since Discovery has an old Warp Drive it would be prudent to refrain from using it in case they also suffer the effects of the Burn. Hence not wanting to explode at Warp.
Based on everything we've seen, the warp core is always active. It may not be producing as much energy as when at warp, but it seems to be the ships' main power source. Plus once the ship starts exploding, antimatter pod containment would be lost.
@@mcrvids6860 My take on the whole thing was that (I thought) the Dilithium was used to contain the matter/antimatter reaction, and having been rendered inert (which begs the question how it was not inert material to start with?), the reaction is no longer contained... thus Explody-boom times wether at warp or on standby. So long as the stream of antimatter is flowing to the dilithium they are in for a bad time. Also, I think there are times the Warp Core has "scrammed" itself during a crisis. I'd have to dig for a reference but I almost guarantee at least once in TNG the core went dead due to some automatic shutdown response. In fact, thinking about current atomic power setups today it would be neigh insanity to NOT have that process in place. But it would be hard to safeguard against the Burn when you have pico seconds to stop a live reaction. From what I recall from my dad's old "blueprints" book for the Galaxy-Class, they also have Fusion plants for aux power/impulse drives etc. They may have had a few ships "cold" that spun up to respond to the sudden pants-crapping and then blew themselves up in the process that "At Warp" and "Core Hot" took the same meaning? For that matter, ... if all dilithium went inert... why are they fighting over it? Or was it only "active" crystals that went inert? If so, how do they know? They lost all the inert evidence. That said, I am in no way super familiar with the tech and my memory is not great either, so I probably got something of that process wrong.
“Who knows what the future of Discovery holds as far as ships go.” Spoiler alert: an amazing number of Discovery-era designs that are still around after 900 years.
The way Star Trek technology is upgraded after 900 years is very similar to how the old republic warships of the Star Wars universe upgraded their technology but the appearance looks almost identical after 10,000 years
The hardest part about making a whole NEW fleet is: every show and other content between the TOS movies and essentially Picard got to reuse things like Oberth’s, Excelsiors,’ Nebula’s, Galaxy’s etc- to fill out the background Hell at the launch of STO they had that benefit too. To make a style 10x older than when any of those are used- yea you’d have to start from scratch.
I really like that ship you show at 2:46. I really hope we see at least one of these that is still active. In a later episode. It's just so fricking cool.
At 4:55 and 6:50, ship in the bottom left, anyone else look at it and see a Starfleet combadge turned on its side? Interesting idea to take the Starfleet insignia shape and make a ship out of it. Props to whomever thought that up.
Interesting they made these and indeed it would be good to get better looks at them. In the meantime Star Trek Online has three ships from this era already if you're interested in looking at them; Ouroboros Class, Eternal Class, and the Chronos Class.
Remember - all the post production was done from home because of the pandemic. Things just go more slowly when you're not in the office and talking to each other even when you can remote in and have full access to server and computer power. If the USS-Copy/Paste-A fleet is how they managed to get more Star Trek to us before 2021, I'll happily take it.
I think you guys nailed it by saying it's multi-race influence, but maybe down to the individual class. They can't build ships reliably so you have the Connie-esque ship, and that's clearly 'Starfleet'. The others could be absolutely anything, future races who pooled their ships to our own. I hope they go more into it, but I don't think their concern is in the ships, though it really should be. It's an important part of the show.
It just occured to me that they could move it into the story that it was somehow DISCOVERY who caused the BURN..! Thus making it dramatic for the show.
I'm glad you mentioned the Relativity, because aren't there ships that go back and forth throu time centuries before this happened? I like where season 3 is going but I can't figure out how no one knew or saw this coming. Daniels, what happened, man!!
in the first episode of season 3 Book mentions offhand that Micxheal's arrival via wormholew is going to attract unwanted attention because 'time travel tech was rforbidden after the temporal wars"
These ships are far more interesting than the ones in Picard. I'd like to see at least one of them in better detail. It would be rather easy for them to write finding one abandoned too far away to be resupplied without dilithium but preserved well. Maybe the crew would transfer eventually to one of the new/old designs and that's when they park Discovery and transfer the flag to a new ship they name Discovery. I like Discovery but they can't survive long riding around like the NX-01 in a quadrant that's basically run like the Orion Syndicate.
Completely agree. The copy paste fleet in Picard looked like Souvereign class rejects. These here even have visual hints at the Enterprise-J (super long nacelles), which is nice.
Don't even want to remember the Picard fleet. I had nearly forgotten about that disaster. This fleet is far and away better. At least there were several dissimilar designs, not just one with a few minor variations.
Ship's just keep getting flatter. At this rate somewhere off into the future, all ship's will be one deck tall and extend far enough back that if you put them nose to nose, you could reach the Delta Quadrant. Secret Hideout ship designs indicate... 2-Dimensional thinking.
when i first saw the more Recognizable look of a Federation ship (i will never believe those ships like the Relativity ship from Voyager to be a Federation ship, if anything i think of them as a Design done by an Alien Species who built them because they know more about how to use Time travel then the Federation) which is at 3:00 ,for me the design felt really NX refit, a Design that wasn't shown on screen but is a ship you can fly in STO, which admittedly i like alot
Saru should not have passed that Deception check, it’s true. What he should have said was “Our warp core was offline, at the time”. It’s a shame that no-one ran this by the writers. It would have only required a simple re-shoot with two actors. But I think we can let it slide! Either way, the UEDF officers did not trust the Discovery crew at first, but the crew did earn their trust doing what they do best. And I guess that’s all that matters, in the end.
The one thing I look forward to, is someone onboard the Federation relay station viewing an old Starfleet record to see what happened to the Enterprise and how far they went with the ship and her design.
This "burn" is something I might expect in a 25th century concept, even 26th, but almost a millenium later? At that time, when starships routinely travel through time, and even are categorized as timeships, surely there would have looong since been SOP protocols that protect ships from any kind weapons attacks on the physical frame of the ship. Any real threat would have to come from some strange kind of space dimension, subspace, or time weapons, etc. A ship being attacked would be able to, in a way far outstripping the Borg, adapt in some kind of inner space, phasic or subspace shifting, so the ship would not really "be there" when the attack occurs. So the weapon just seems to go right through the ship, with no hands lost and the ship perfectly intact. I even thought of this as a kid back in the 80s, but they haven't thought of this yet? They're still playing with exploding some crystals like dynamite?...smh.
And then there would be no premise for S3 at all. It's for the needs of the story. I am ALL FOR internal paradigms that make sense, *and they should keep to them* ( I wish!), but in this case, there needs to be the Burn for the whole setting and direction of the show. In universe, you could ask "What could make so many ships explode in such a way even though technology is so advanced?" On the other hand, I have seen both Star Trek and Star Wars bend over backwards to over-simplify and water-down things over the decades to the point of silliness, just to make it "easier" for themselves. Nitpicking these franchises is definitely an uphill battle. 8-/
It would be cool if there's is a mothballed fleet from the last 900 years it's just been sitting around nobody using. Kind of like the United States ghost fleet.
It wasn't that they were not in Warp, their Core was shut down for maintenance... ;) A core is active even if they're just idling in a dock somewhere unless they purposefully shut it down... Hence they were not called out for it...
Nothing wrong with the sequence, and clearly abstracted to narrate an explanation. However, the only disappointment here is the lazy copy and paste of a few designs. There are only 5/6 distinct designs and really Each ship here is represented 2/3/4 times but at slightly differing angles. Remembering the burn happened some 100 years ago so a 'mere' 800 years after discovery - would have been nice to see the enterprise J style design or clear derivative of it. Hope we get some up close stuff later in the season... and im pretty sure we must - seems the Discovery season 3 "mission" is the re-establishment of the federation and starfleet... and you cant do that without actually showing some ships.
800 years after Discovery and almost nothing has changed. Embarrassing. The whole idea of 800 years in the future and ships look essentially the same. Tech is barely more advanced for 800 years, and from the looks of it nobody has evolved. The show is poor. Very poor.
@@JohnnyZenith then dont watch it. Im rather enjoying it. The trouble with Trekyards sometimes is that things are micro analysed that really were never designed to be. This is not a documentary after all just some entertaining sci fi. Who knows... maybe there is a reason why ship design was like that.. perhaps they were having a bit of a retro phase with design - trends come and go dont they! Maybe we will get more info as the series progresses. So far in the time period Discovery finds itself there are no recognisable ships so far. Also to be fair in that shot there was no context - and also to be fair there weren't many 'contemporary' (relative to discovery) designed ships anyway.
@@JohnnyZenith Completely agree, most of these ships look 100 years in the future, not 900 etc......TNG got it right, why are they still flying in space, shouldn't they have hit other dimensions etc now
@@nigelstockley7011 Discovery's terrible, the 3rd episode saved the series for me. Hopefully it gets better, but he's completely right, the ships are just lazy copy n pasting with lack of imagination.
@@nigelstockley7011 the answer is that the designers were lazy and made 3 designs that they thought looked star trek and then copy pasted them. No soul or innovative thought into them. These people have never seen the show and it dosent seem like they started either
They did say after all that All ships that used Dilithium exploded.. So obviously not only limited to Starfleet. (Heck, only some older Romulan singularity vessels would survive if memory serves) I mean even the Klingons use Dilitium after all.
The heavy Saucers are likely mass transports - carrying many 10's of thousands of people at once. unless they are like the large starbase ships the Empire has in Star Wars that would work too. As for Phaser Strips - you wouldn't want those that is like slapping a flint lock onto a main battle tank. They have particle synthesis so the emittors would either be the entire shield grid or they'd be more like hologram emitters. Though I think escape pods, and phaser stripes would be defunct. MAYBE a physical Photon Torpedo might be pre-assembled and used and fired from an aperture. but otherwise - no phaserstrips. As for the lack of a registry or navigation lights they may be using a universally compatible (galaxy wide) standard for augmented reality so those things would be decoration only - or perhaps only used in docking bays.. Overall they did a better job than I 1st thought they had. It's more era consistent that I expected to be honest.
