@Marino not a chance in hell... you obviously don't shoot 22s much or have had a bunch of shitty center fire rounds to gleam that "100% comparable to Centerfire" thing. It's really gotten worst on the 22s as of late with the shortages, swamped production back logs. but it's your story, tell it how you like. I will say I'd rather have a 22 over a 25 but that's because you get better penetration and I can jack out a ftf in a blink of an eye cause I know what to expect.
@Marino Chill out Grand Marino. Jon is correct even if you don't like what he has to say. Those of us who shoot a lot of .22s can attest to the fact that even CCI Mini Mags and Velocitors have far more duds than ANY centerfire round. In fact, I bought a brand new 100 pack of CCI Mini Mag 22LR 36gr last year before Covid hit. It had 3 duds in it that would not fire regardless of how many times I rotated them. Why is that so important to know in a self defense scenario? Because if a maniac runs up on you with a machete and you get a dud round, you're screwed.
@Marino Marino, you are truly a funny guy. While it is true that today's rimfires are better than a hundred years ago, everything else you said is borderline nuts. You are literally the only person in the gun world who thinks rimfire primers are as reliable as centerfire primers. You are not playing with a full deck my friend. Wow.
I would love to have something like the plinkster auto rifle in either 25 or 32 acp. I think it would make an ideal house gun or squirrel gun. Low muzzle blast, low recoil, and reloadable.
Freedom First: That extra reliability must be quite handy in a heated situation. Two cloak&dagger-agents pitted against each other in an abandoned warehouse, armed with a tiny pea shooter and only one spare magazine and no back-up within a hundred miles, now _that_ is a scenario, where that extra reliability can save your donkey. Or have I just watched too many film noirs?
I have a Browing .25 vest pocket pistol. Great little firearm. Belonged to my grandfather in Belgium. It was given to me when he passed away back in the early 90s. Since I have a c& r license it was shipped to me and got it 2 weeks later after it arrived atfe had to check it out. Date of build was 1915.
Love having a Lil Mauser 1910 .25acp. their center fired with a primer so most likely will be more reliable than a rim fire round. Plus don't think anyone wants to get hit with either.
"Crunching the numbers" the 0.25 has 22% more Muzzle Energy than the 0.22. I'm sure penetration tests are next? By the way another forgotten calibre designed by John Browning to try out is the 0.32 ACP
What I love about your channel is it don’t matter about barrel lengths or if it’s the same ammo!! You shoot what you have and make it a FUN video!! Keep up the good work WTW!!
I would like to see more guns chambered in 25 ACP. I’d also like to see more variety of ammunition in 25 ACP. Where the 22 LR has the advantage is that there are much hotter loads, like CCI stingers. Where are the 25 ACP has the advantage is that the bullets are jacketed instead of just copper washed, and that the shells should feed and fire more reliably, as opposed to rimfire.
Short barrels with ammo designed for long barrels really kills velocity big time. Some calibers don’t care too much like 7.62x39 which fires out of 8.5” vs 20” you only lose about 25% and 12ga out of 14” vs 28” you don’t actually lose any velocity worth noting in most ammo.
John-Paul Silke exactly. Velocity is a function of powder charge, powder burn rate, projectile weight and the amount of frictional resistance inside the bore (I.E. length and rifling).
I'd stick with .22lr just on the basis of availability. I haven't seen 25 auto ammo or handguns in my neck of the woods in Northern California since before the lockdowns. For .22Lr even if you get 1-5 dud rounds out of every 100 rounds, that's still a %95 success rate. If you get more than 5 duds out of the same box, then it's a good chance you just chose the wrong ammo to carry, and need to find a brand your sidearm prefers to use.
I used to think the same thing, so that's a reason why I never bought a .25 ACP. And I'd say in most situations, that's true...until ammo was so hard to get. In 2021, i was having a lot of trouble finding .22 LR and .22 Magnum, and when I did, i could usually only buy a box or two. I found .380, .38 Special, and .357 Magnum even harder to get. It was slightly easier to get 9mm and .45 ACP, but I was still limited to how much I could buy. Then I decided to buy calibers I didn't already have. So one day in 2021, I bought a Bauer (copy of a Baby Browning) .25 ACP, and that day I bought 300 rounds for about $65. Granted, I had to go to two different gun shops to get it, but I bought as much .25 ACP that day than I bought in all other calibers that month.
@tomwil77 I was the same way with a .410 shotgun and .410 shells, I couldn't find it anywhere. Anytime I found it I picked it up but I would go to dozens of different gun shops just to look for ammo. For us in reality the only ammunition that never ran out in my area of Northern California was 17 HMR, .22Lr, 12 and 20 Gauge bird shot shells in 6 to 7.5 shot, and 270 Win. I made the concise choice to focus more on .22Lr since it was the most plentiful ammo available everywhere around here, I learned that the Aguila brand .22Lr ammo while it was dirty, had no duds with no failure to feed, fire or eject out of a few thousand rounds of ammo I fired through any of my .22Lr firearms. When I say dirty, think your hands covered in lead powder and residue just from loading magazines, the only consolation to that ammo was it was sold in bulk for very very cheap, till the manufacturer for that brand realized their ammo got real popular real fast, and quickly raised their prices to match Winchester and Remington.
Time to break out the paper plates :-) Ps. I think if you measure the barrels they are pretty close . The overall length of the gun is longer but the barrels from were the bullet sits to the exit are pretty close ( just looking at the comparison in your video) :-)
Nice short comparison. I like it. My thought is that the only real reason to consider the .25 is feed reliability, which is the .25's biggest advantage over the .22 LR IMO. Both are anemic personal defense rounds, though. Having said that, if a .25 pocket pistol like the one in the vid is all you have for personal protection, than there is no doubt that it is better than nothing. I know your video wasn’t meant to address this, but maybe a future video can answer from your perspective: What is the minimum caliber for personal protection in a pocket pistol? I think, for anyone thinking of a pocket pistol for protection, there are better calibers available for the purpose. I would skip the .25 and consider a .32acp if you need a semi-auto (think James Bond) or, better yet, a .32 H&R mag revolver that also shoots .32 S&W long. The .32 Mag. is the better choice for self-defense over any .25 or .22 LR (or even the .22HMR for that matter).
My answer is there is no minimum. If a 22short or 22lr is what you have it will save your life. Obviously the bigger the more damage it will do. 9mm is my usual EDC
Scott: There's a good line of reasoning there. I think you should stick with what works for you. A .22lr sure beats the .44 magnum you left at home. I think it was Paul Harrell that made it absolutely clear, that even the smallest calibers get the job done if you can hit with it. When it comes to pocket cannons, there's gonna be some trade off you have to consider, but we could go over this for hours, and Paul already did most of the footwork for us :)
The 25 is 20% more massive and (if the velocities were exactly equal) has 20% great energy. The John Taylor Knock Out factor (TKOF) Scale (which I dislike) nonetheless gives the 22LR and the 25ACP the same rating. Clearly calibers like the .22 Long Rifle, .25 ACP, or .32 ACP or so called mouse gun calibers are viable self-defense options, if not the best calibers for that purpose. They are clearly a good choice for the elderly, the handicapped, or the recoil sensitive. A hit with a small caliber is more effective than a kiss with a larger one. Each of these has been use by European police agencies for many decades, and the .22LR has killed more persons than any other civilian cartridge partly because it is so common. Many European agencies moved to these "small" calibers in an effort to improve shooting accuracy among their personnel. Even the Israelis use 22LRs as anti-terrorist weapons. Moreover, the 22LR chambers in both revolving and automatic handguns and long arms. The more reliable but less versatile .25 ACP remained the largest selling centerfire automatic pistol for concealed carry into the mid 1980s. As time went by (and under pressure from certain misconceived government regulations), the .25ACP cartridge fell by the wayside in favor of the .380 ACP and 9mm for concealed carry.
Just a friendly heads-up: I think you meant to say, "The 25 is 25% more massive...." (not 20%). Just like 15 is 50% bigger than 10, because 5 is 50% of 10, the 50-grain bullet is 25% bigger than the 40-grain bullet, because 10 is 25% of 40.
Something to keep in mind, however. You used cheapo .22 Long Rifle. There are other .22 Long Rifle loads that will put out much better numbers, such as CCI Stingers. With .25 ACP, those kind of options don't exist. And .600 Nitro Express packs so much more punch than either of those. ;)
Love this video, look at the guy that shoots .25acp against plywood it penetrated 3 quarter inch plywood, I liked the clay block test with .22, .22 mag and .25acp,
A high velociy .22 has twice the energy of a .25. I dont know what you all are trying to make yourself believe but .22lr is wayyy better than a .25 auto. .25 auto is the worst common caliber for personal defense. .25 guns are horrible in general, really low capacity, lots of issues, there's nothing good about .25 auto, not even the reliability, modern .22 ammo on a good gun is more reliable than .25auto on a 50 years old gun...
Great video! I’d go with the 22! Just my opinion! Try the cci stingers!!! Only 32gr but, way more velocity! That’s what I carry on my belt buckle! 9mm in the belt!!! And my grandmother did approve!😋
Maybe they should invent a .25 Magnum in a 7-8 shot revolver. It might not sell well enough to justify it, but it would be reliable out of a two inch barrel with minimal recoil. Maybe like a watered down .327 Mag.
Nice video! Keep 'em coming! BTW I chronographed my Beretta model 71 .22lr with cci stingers and maximags, got a little over 1,000fps average. 3.5" barrel... However, in your video the .25Auto is putting out more energy due to its heavier weight. So the .25 is actually the winner here!
Can you do a video where you shoot the hottest stuff you can find from that. 25? Let's see what it can do on ballistic gel and wood or through the crony!
People are spoiled these days, they don't realize back in the day pistols weren't so plentiful and pocketable as they are now. If you wanted a pocket pistol you had a 22 , 25 or Derringers of various cals. The center fire cartridge is more reliable ...... the 25 was born. I trust the 25 all day long and would carry it. I would carry a 22 only if it were all I had. The people who poke fun at the poor old 25 do not know history. Great vid, I hope you learned a few people something! 😊Thank You Sir!!
Kevin Tomes: That's rock solid, I'll give you that. The .25 was not designed to stand toe to toe with the 9 mm or the .357 magnum, but it is still a good round for personal defense.
The .25 might be more reliable being center fire, but .22 LR is more cost effective and can be reliable out of certain guns. I have a Taurus PT Poly in .22 LR, I question whether I should have got the .25, or if I should in the future because it’s a $250 dollar gun, and I really like the look and feel of my little. It’s a bit ammo picky, but I have dealt with worse in .380 and even with larger caliber weapons. I kinda wish .32 ACP was more popular and affordable. It holds its own with .380, but less recoil. Most likely better shot placement out of a pocket gun, depending on the gun and the shooter. I’m sure that’s covered in another video.
If these were my only 2 choices for carry, I'd have to go with the Beretta mainly because 25acp is a center fire cartridge and should be more reliable than the 22lr. Having said that, I'll stick with 380 over 25acp as the smallest caliber I'll carry
Bob C: The .380 will get the job done, that's for sure. Good .380 ammo is usually quite reliable, recoil is manageable, and it's not gonna cost an arm and a leg.
A friend just had a .25 acp contender barrel made. It's 10 inches long. I cant begin to tell you how many people told him the bullet wont make it out of the barrel. With the cheap red dot scope on it, that is a small game killing machine. I was one of the ones that asked why. I want one now.
I had a PT25 , recently traded it for a muzzle loader. Was a fun little gun. Going through a black powder addiction at the moment. Glad to see the 25 acp get its due.
I just don't see the 25 being worth the cost difference for the ammo. Also you can of course get hotter 22 rounds, I don't have a clue what's available for the 25. However, not all 25's are created equal, many of them are poorly made crap, Beretta isn't known for making crap. Perhaps someone you know has two PPK's or PKS's they were made in both calibers, but are otherwise the same. That would be the only way to get a really fair test.
@timmybmn -- now that you can find .22lr under 5cents/rd its likely 5-6x as much for .25acp... but still not much if you arent mainly practicing hi vol w/ it
13echo20: Any sharp stick is better than a wet sock . . . Unless you're Jackie Chan, then the deadliest weapon is a pair of wooden clogs and a wet towel.
Back in high school, my science teacher gave us some instructions about measuring velocity where we should expect random factors to be considerable, as in muzzle velocity. We don't have guns in Denmark, but we tested air rifles instead. Here's what I remember: 1) Use Uneven numbers of tests 2) Enough tests to eliminate the highest and the lowest result 3) Double tests - as in run the test again next day or next lesson 4) Triple tests if the two tests are wildly different If this was a high school science class, you'd be required to fire at least five rounds per gun, scratch out the top and bottom scores, calculate, do the exact same test the day after, and if the two results were very un-similar, keep testing. Luckily, this isn't high school, it's not science, it's just for tryin' it. Besides, you'd be gnawing your way through truckloads of ammo, just to drop the mike on a bunch of naysayers, and the're tons of videos out there doing just that. I come here for the great fun, and if I wanted to dig into statistics, Σ variables and all that propella hat stuff, I'd scope for a science channel. All the naysayers that goes on for ages about barrel length, chamber pressure, air humidity, the rotation of the Earth, proximity of singularities, tinfoil hat endurance, and all that jazz, they remind me of Beaker from the Muppet Show. All I hear is "mee-mee-mee-mee-mee-meeeeeep". Blimey I got carried away. Anyway, have a lovely weekend, give the dog a belly rub for me, and keep up the good work :)
Thomas, very well said brother. On a side note, I made sure our lab pup Hunter got that belly rub you sent from Denmark earlier in the week. He loved it! Thanks bro and be well.
Thanks WHO_TEE_WHO! Please compare CCI Velocitors to a 25ACP defensive round. I've had Velocitors fly out of a 4.7" barrel, at 950 fps. At 10 feet, that combination went through: 4 layers of Gortex jacket 8 layers of fleece hoody 2 layers of cotton t-shirt 1 beef rib with meat, wrapped with 8 layers of damp leather chamois 1 layer of plastic jug (front side) 6 inches of water 1 layer of plastic jug (rear side) The bullet expanded to 9mm and embedded about 1cm into 2x4 backstop. Velocitors are crazy!
Interesting results but I figured the 25 auto would win and I would say your riight if it was done again it would...great video can't wait for the next one!!
Even with velocity being the same.. The weight of the .25 round means more ft lbs. neither one is worth shit for penetration but as far as head shots or close up shots ( which is where these calibers shine) the .25 acp is superior. But a test on that would be the truth and be interesting. We're not even going into reliability of ammo.
3:22 that “click” which is a light primer strike from the .22 is what instantly makes .25 the clear winner. Center fire is WAY more reliable and who doesn’t love a mouse gun 🐁😊
Fiocchi 35gr XTP JHP @1000fps. Now that should do the trick. It says 900 on the box but it reached 1040fps at one point and averaged OVER 1000fps. It rolls the nose right back on itself and penetrates 10"-12" in 10% Gel. I only have ONE box of 50 left and they are NOWHERE to be found on the internet. Did not see that coming.
cigarsarge: Aren't the .22s cheaper than the .25s? In that case, there's the bang-for-ya-dolla factor to take into consideration - at least if you plan on plinkin' all mornin' :)
Thomas Raahauge I was referring to ballistic performance. The price factor always goes to the 22. I bought a bunch of 22lr for $15 a brick recently. Hard to beat that price.
Not sure why you didn't do a 6 round average of each. They both certainly could hold them, and that would have given you an even more accurate assessment of the two cartridges. Also note that it was the 22lr that had a failure to feed. That is something to consider as well.
I inherited a .25 auto from my Grandmother, with a box of ammo. I'm not going to go call her though, cause we broke the slide shooting that ammo..broke the family heirloom Grandma, sorry.
My dad was shot in back of his calf dead center of the leg bone! It mangled his leg, it went in top of his calf and bounced from bone to top of skin until it finally came out and went into a hardwood floor.
Phoenix HP25a in.25 A.C.P. has a 3.4" barrel!EXCELLENT accuracy! Even up the odds- Three cheers for John Moses Browning' s. excellent knowledge of " pocket pistol" calibers!!
The .25 wins over the .22 both in KE and momentum, ... and in reliability. In your presentation, the .25 barrel was about 25% shorter which is significant and would have resulted in higher .25 velocities if it were the same length as the .22LR. So, with your numbers; the .25 with avg vel of 649 ft/s produces 47 ft-lbs KE and 0.14 Lb-Sec momentum at the muzzle. The .22 with avg vel of 657 ft/s produces 38 ft-lbs KE and 0.12 Lb-Sec momentum at the muzzle. Pretty low energy values compared with say a .380, but clearly the .25 would be the better choice with a modern firearm to ensure reliability and greater energy transfer compared with the .22lr.
Watched the video, apparently even at a significant disadvantage the .25 acp is still equal or possibly better. Of course ammo choice is gonna suck and .22LR has way better options of even hotter stuff plus ammo designed for shorter barrels which may actually spank the .25 acp. Perhaps a test of the hottest .25 acp vs hottest designed for short barrel .22lr available. I’m gonna guess it will be neck and neck especially with the .25 acp giving up an inch of barrel.
Compromise... neck the 25 acp down and make a 22-25 acp wildcat... easily handled to double that velocity and re-chamber both guns. Easy to do the 25 just red loctite in a 22" liner sleeve.... for the 22 just drill out a new chamber!
.25 ACP is my favorite caliber!! I own two Deutsche Werke. 25!! An FIE "The Best " .25!! A Fabrique D'armes Libia .25!! A Tanfoglio GT27 .25!! And a Pheonix Arms .25!!
When comparing the 25 and the 22, I really do not care about barrel length, bullet weight, bullet velocity, or bullet diameter. What I really care about is reliability. For me, 22 rim-fire ammo is not as reliable as 25acp center-fire ammo. I use my 25acp Beretta as my "get off me" gun until I can get to my 45acp.
Just my opinion, but if I had to choose between a 25ACP and a 22lr for personal defence, I would choose the 25ACP. The 25ACP is a centerfire cartridge, which is more dependable than a 22 which is a rimfire, also the 25ACP bullet is going to leave a bigger wound channel, it may not penetrate as deep, but the bigger hole would make someone bleed out more quicker, seems like to me. But as a side note, I once personally knew a guy who was shot in the forehead with a 25ACP and then thrown off a bridge. It knocked him unconscience, and he later woke up, crawled out of the ditch, walked to a house and called 911. The 25 bullet didn't penetrate his skull, it travelled around to the back of his head between his scalp and his skull. Good thing he's a hard headed feller lol I think there's been a lot of people killed with both rounds.
Factor in an inch longer barrel and a 10 grain lighter bullet, the 25 auto really does hold its own. The problem is that neither would have enough bullet speed for them to have effectiveness with a hollow point and 25 is typically pricier to buy, when you can find it.
WHO_TEE_WHO Tbh, i havent looked for 25 for a while bc it was so hard to find for so many years where i lived (central indiana and northern kentucky). Guess things may have changed, im just not up on it any more.
I bought 2 of these 25 auto pistols with conseca serial numbers just because I was giving one to my best friend. I agree with you when you said you Google's A lot and Everyone was Bragging about the 22 caliber being So Much Better, Which is Wrong. Another thing Size comparison, the m@p Wichita I have in 9mm. The 22 m&p is MUCH larger than the 25, if I was getting one that is that much bigger Why get 22 Right? The reason I have Always owned a 25 is when I'm going to a Walk Up ATM. Machine at night, you can't see it in my hand. Also think about How many places you can hide the 25 compared to the 22. This particular 25 model is a Great shooter and very accurate at 25 -30 feet. But I've also have owned 2 cheaper 25s that were made by Raven and they were just as accurate.
The barrels are the same length. Just the chamber adds extra length but if we are nitpicking then both barrels are actually the same length end to end not counting the Chambers.
Dude, that's VERY weak 22LR ammo you have. The average would give around 900t/s from small pistol. 650 ft/s for 25 acp from Berreta 950 is also kinda slow. You should get around 700 ft/s on average. Do more tests with different manufacturers of 25 acp!
gun videos sure do bring out the armchair experts! I carry a .22 and sometimes a smaller .32! No problem with a reliable .25 if i owned one. very good report whoooo!
Part of this is down to case design as well. With the 25acp it looks like the case has a small neck and it’s definitely fatter and less long than the straight walled albeit rimmed case of the 22lr. This allows the powder to burn faster and gives more thrust to the projectile in less barrel length. So in a sense, for handguns, you could argue that 25ACP is probably ALWAYS going to be better than 22lr. But if you’re talking about a lever action carbine or a rifle? No way. That powder would burn all up way early and all the extra barrel length would tear the bullet to shreds. Added bonuses of 25acp in pistols though: less dirty, more reliable center fire, faster more powerful burn of powder means you can get away with shorter barrels. I’m curious what the MAX effective barrel size would be for 25ACP and what the best performance it could squeeze out of the Cartridge would be! It’s kind of a neat little round - design wise.
Without seeing the chronograph results I’ll tell you right now; the 22s gonna be somewhere in the thousand feet per second range, and the 25‘s going to be somewhere a little over 700 ft./s, but both will kill equally. There, end of video.😊 So after watching the video I gotta say; Yeah you did buy the absolute cheapest junk ammo you could find. How about trying the same test with some stingers for the .22 and some decent .25ACP stuff and do a more useful test for us. Don’t get me wrong, I and we appreciate your efforts, but for those of us who carry these types of guns would rather see real world carry test of ammo we would search out to make these small calibers more effective when we carry them. And make no mistake, some of us actually do carry the .22 and .25 because that’s all we can carry during some of our activities. Thanks!
I recently bought a 950 bs it is a super cool little pocket pistol, I would rather carry the 950 over the other pistol. Someone here on RU-vid said they only made the 950 bs for 2 years before Beretta replaced it with the 21A. Thanks for the info, I know I could find a hotter 22lr, but who cares. Thanks again for the info.
