**NOTES AND IMPORTANT INFO** I'm so sorry you guys, something went wrong with the RU-vid upload and there's about a minute of black screen towards the end. Unfortunately I was too late to catch this before most people watched it and I don't want to lose their comments. The only "fix" I can do is cut the section out because that's the only post-release editing RU-vid allows, so I have done that. Apologies to channel members since it's their names that have been cut. If you want to know what the little "theory" was, I have included the text from my script here for you to read: "The Goddess of Flowers - who kinda served as a catalyst for this whole thing - is also a reference to the Queen of Sheba; that much we already covered. But did you know the Queen of Sheba was rumored to be the daughter of a Jinn and a Human? If the same semi-human status holds true for the Goddess of Flowers, then there’s a very good chance that she was a child that resulted from the union of the Seelie and the Traveler from Afar. If you didn’t know, the Seelie and the Traveler married in the Lunar Palace under the blessing of the Moon Sisters and this union is often cited as the reason why the moons fought each other and died. The Seelie and her Lover were separated and each experienced a memory wipe. Given that Seelies aren’t permitted to fall in love, you have to wonder if this was the reason behind it - or if the offspring of the two races mixed together created something unwanted by god: The Nephilim."
@@RafidW9 maybe I'm biased... but absolutely. He's very interesting, with us barely knowing anything about him, and the little we know raises more questions.
‘Khaenri'ah, huh? You sure know a lot! The legacy of Khaenri'ah is long gone. The sinners are all that's left, and they're not worth mentioning.’ It’s crazy that Kaeya has had this voiceline since the beginning of the game and we all believed his term ‘sinner’ indicated his internal daddy issues which became synonymous with his homeland. But based on this voiceline alone I feel like Kaeya probably knows who the ‘sinner’ is.
Don't think he does I think he was referring to khaenriah's people since keaya said he wasn't really living in khaenriah he spent most his life in monstadt
I feel like Kaeya actually knows way more, and his "half truths" are really true. He uses his reputation as someone dishonest to get away with revealing truths with no consequences. If he is not always honest; then what he says doesn't have any meaning or value. Celestia doesn't have to worry about the things he reveals, since no one believes him anyway. Just my thoughts on it, sorry if it doesn't really fit.
A spooky voice talking to us in a crystal... This kinda reminds me of a in game book I stumbled upon lately called "The Lay of Al-Ahmar". "They say Al-Ahmar separated his mind from his flesh and bone, placing it within the corridors, stairways, doorways, and beams that crawled eternally into the depths. ... and that his soul merged into one with the wailing souls of the millions in his kingdom, doomed to wander, lost amidst the howling end, traveling along the dark and winding corridors, growing ever closer to the bottomless abyss..."
I think that book only appears after you finish the first part of Jhets quest as far as I know. That name is also another one of Deshret's. I haven't really seen anyone talk about that book bar yourself.
Happy that Ashikai and I had the same observation. When I first encountered the "Sinner" in Chasm, the first thought that came to mind was Deshret. It amazed me so much coz I immediately thought of Liloupar's descriptions of Deshret. And because I rewatch Rhukkadevata's cutscenes so many times, the 3.1 quests, and especially the conversation she had with Nahida. I immediately thought the crystal reminded me of something so similar. And I was already dubious of Deshret's power and identity.
its been this long and i only finally made the connection that the Seelie marrying the traveler and both getting a memory wipe could be a reference to Brynhidlr, the Valkirie falling in love with Sigurd and both of them getting memory wiped
That makes so much sense! Brynhidlr the Valkyrie of Myth was likely based on two Merovingian queens Brunhilda and Fredegund. Fredegund's son was Chlothar II and her grandson then was Charibert (Caribert)!
....huh... with what we know now after Fontaine, perhaps this means Deshret was the Third Descender, whose remains were used to create the gnoses... ESPECIALLY since it's said he mastered all of the elements. And they explicitly bring up the Third Descender being dead (and the fact that their remains were used in the gnoses) as a *big deal* in the Fontaine quests.. which isnt too long after questing our way through all of Deshret's related quests in Sumeru. Narratively, it makes sense they're connected. This ALSO all happened within the same time that we had our "flashback" to our abyss sibling discovering some chained purple crystal capable of undoing a hilichurl's curse as part of the founding of the Abyss Order... If the Sinner is Deshret and the Third Descender, whose remains were used to create the gnoses, it makes sense that the only power the Sinner currently has is the "forbidden knowledge" or power of darkness (as Apep referred to it) because then Deshret's mastery of the 7 normal elements of Teyvat were all removed from him in order to create the 7 gnoses, which are each directly tied to one specific element. And if THAT all adds up, then that's why Khaen'riah and the Abyss Order rely on the power of darkness so much - because that's the only "mastery" he has left after the other 7 masteries were all taken from him. I'm currently hoping Natlan reveals some deep lore to us about the identity of the Second Descender, because I feel like THAT is the only real puzzle piece missing in order to figure out the full timeline of Teyvat's past... and where the future of the game will go as we head to Snezhnaya and beyond.
I think there are two evidences(?) that could add weight on this theory: 1. From Dehya's new 5-star claymore "Beacon of the Reed Sea", there is one line: "Like the eye that shone with a golden light and the noble heart, King Deshret was once the destination of all paths..." There are two points worth noticing: 1) the eye. Single, not, the eyes. In Chinese, it is more obvious: 「如灿金的独目，高贵的心，赤王曾是一切道路的终点…」"独目" = single-eyed is used to describe King Deshret. Therefore, we could probably concluded that King Deshret had only one eye, or only presented one eye to other people. The single-eyed fact strengthens King Deshret's relationship to Khaenri'ah as a whole and his relationship to Irmin. 2. From the same line, we know that King Deshret has a golden eye. It might not be obvious in English as it said "Like the eye that shone with a golden light ", in Chinese it is "如灿金的独目", literally meaning "like a single eye of brilliant gold". Coincidentally, the Traveller twins have golden eyes, which means King Deshret and the twins share the same eye color. Also, I think new weapon story of "Beacon of the Reed Sea" is quite interesting. Hope to see your intepretation on it!
i literally skip through the voice lines on every quest because i know i won't pick up on any important lore points (except obvious ones) and just wait for the theorists to do their magic and watch their videos 💀
@@Infelious that i can't make connections easily? i listen to all voice lines in archon quests and any additional quests im interested in. i kind of rushed my comment earlier. basically i just meant i don't bother theorizing as i'm playing because i'm not as good going in depth as these theorists do. i just put quests on auto play and only pause if theres a big lore drop in the text!
I really wish we get a hint of Celestia's side of the story in Fontaine, because we just see things from the fatui side and from khaenri'ah/abyss side, yet Celestia is out of the picture, Hope that in the end we get to choose to side between the fatui, the abyss, and Celestia with a fourth option of not siding with anyone
@@Sacration deshret destroyed his own civilization, if he and the goddess of flowers saw that humans don't need gods then they could've just let their people rule themselves, like liyue and mondstadt, they're a good example of how to make a place for humans to rule themselves without having to challenge trying to overthrow the heavens, Also the dumb ass coused all of the sand storms, alazar, weathering zones, and almost killed all of sumeru, just because he didn't want gods to rule over humans, while literally killing thousands if not millions of his own people in the process, and the godess of flowers deserved to be cast out of heaven with how stupid she is, she could have told him "your idea if fucking stupid and is ganna kill us all" no although she herself Warned him about the dangers if what he's doing, SHE still HELPED HIM IN HIS STUPID PLANS ANYWAY!, dooming the paradise they built together with rukka and speaking of rukka, she proved to be a true god of wisdom by recognizing that her friends are stupid and she pulled a "fuck this shit i'm out" and when to create the rain forast, yet she still came back to the rescue when the wet shit hit the fan and stopped the destruction of sumeru and possiblly the world, and khaenri'ah are the same thing they started the cataclysm, almost killing EVERYONE and if it wasn't for Celestia stepping in when the archons failed we wouldn't probably have a teyvat to begin with, yet they have the audacity to be mad at the gods for punishing them for the shit they coused, And i know dain claims that khaenri'ah controlled the problem before Celestia nuked the place but i feel like he's in denial just because his inner reddit atheist doesn't wanna admit the gods were right,
I think when Nahida threatened to destroy the gnosis in front of the Doctor that that was a foreshadowing. Something important to Celestia will be destroyed/ disturbed. And then we can see if they presumably will react (or not). This is like seeing a gun as a decoration in a movie. The gun will most likely be used later on.
@@silentwitch8950 I imagined that in the Fontaine archon quest the hydro gnosis will be destroyed and it would actually awake the heavenly principals, and they might not be happy about the gnosis being destroyed,
I want to see that sitcom "King Deshret and the Ibis King were roommates" 😆People were saying that the dynamic between Alhaitham and Kaveh makes them Sumeru's Diluc and Kaeya, which hits different now! A thought- if the twins are heirs to the Abyss, then why would the Heavenly Principles stop them from leaving Teyvat again, citing that the "arrogation of mankind stops now"? Implying that mankind would continue to be "stolen" UNLESS they stay. Which seems to put her in opposition to Celestia and not aligned with it like I've been assuming. In the original Chinese her name can also translate to destiny or fate- which removes her somewhat from "heavenly" and thus also from Celestia. Making her more of a neutral party or, from the Abyss somehow?? Thank you for the reddit links!!
I don’t think Deshret necessarily ever actually ruled over Khaenri’ah, but maybe they saw themselves as continuing Deshret’s legacy. I remember it wasn’t uncommon for ancient rulers to claim they were descendants of biblical figures in order to give themselves more legitimacy, so maybe the kings of Khaenri’ah said they were (or actually were) Deshret’s heirs. So Khaenri’ah wouldn’t technically be the twins’ homeland, but it would be a spiritual continuation of it. That would make sense with how only one of the twins identifies with Khaenri’ah. Deshret could have been from the twins’ actual home and escaped its destruction just like them, then done all his Sumeru shenanigans. I feel like if the twins were from any of the civilizations we’ve directly encountered, the traveler would have commented or thought something along the lines of “holy shit this looks an awful lot like my house”. But if there were an unbroken line between their original culture and Khaenri’ah, that could be enough to convince the Abyss sibling to call it home. But without all that information, the traveler wouldn’t recognize anything about Khaenri’ah as their own culture.
Another point I forgot, "samiel" is actually a kind of strong, dusty wind found in Arabian deserts (also called simoom). I think the wall of Samiel is a reference to that type of wind, not a person/figure, as the purpose of the wall is to block sandstorm.
Perfectly timed release. Gonna enjoy the juicy Genshin lore from Ashikai with my dinner. Bless and thank you for your hard works!! Please get your deserved rest when you finished the contents you wanted 🙏
4:44 There's definitely no link in names between Irminsul and king Irmin in chinese original. They're completely different words. Also, what connects enemies marked by Nahida's skill are definitely not chains, they're vines. They're not made of links. That ornament on her chest is the only thing that may resemble a chain on her clothing but that's where any similarity ends.
Building on your Irmin section, I had a few thoughts with a pal: Let's rewind to Kaeya's surname, Alberich. We know that this royal line created the Abyss Order. We don't know too much about what Irmin did or whatnot, but we know his name is Irmin. He's a king of K-Town, and we also know he only has one eye. Irmin is actually another name for "Odin," which coincidentally, has a very specific story. In order to gain the power to control fate, Odin hung himself from the world tree and lost an eye. If we fast forward and take a look at the quest item we got from the Sumeru archon quest, as you pointed out in the video, the branch reads: "Trees also symbolize widsom. In one of the legends, a sage hanging upside down on a tree had acquired the knowledge of how to inscribe runes and control sacred words, and thus followedt he kingdom established along the tree's roots, eventually gaining a glimpse into the secret of the cosmos." You see how the description matches the story of Odin? From this, we can hypothesize that the sage was King Irmin who gained cosmic knowledge from the irminsul and taught it to K-Town. Revisiting "Irmin = Odin" (who has one eye, and was the king of K-Town), we also know that there were royal knights serving him. If we go into the chasm, coincidentally, we find that the royal knights of K-Town are an enemy type, and drop a very particular item that was featured in the video, the Statuettes, which are literally Irmin's face, the king with one eye. The description of these items are also very interesting. Let's focus on the rarest drop: "A one-eyed carving that emanates an ominous energy, with no indication of what it's made of. As you gaze upon this idol, you can almost hear a strange, conforting whisper... 'See my child. All that lies under the throne of heaven shall be destroyed by upheavel. The eternal peace of the pitch-dark void shall embrace us all.'" *A STRANGE AND COMFORTING WHISPER* Where have we heard this before? From the Sinner. The Sinner, IMO, is King Irmin. King of Khaenri'ah who gained immense knowledge from irminsul. All Khaenri'ah citizens bow and feel comfortable when his presence is around. *Even Dainsleif is affected.* And why? Because he's a pure-blood Khaenri'an. Hence, that's why I believe the voice from the crystal, is Irmin. Irmin, the Sinner. However, I DID miss the detail of King Deshret and the crystal. So this could be quite the interesting development!
They absolutely did. Travail made that pretty clear, but even things like 1.0's Lisa quest have been shown to have deep significance. Also, one of the fictional book series in the game was accidentally left in the game and was datamined, despite only the first volume being available in-game. I refuse to read it, but they've absolutely written at least rough draft/bullet points of the world's history.
same, when Liloupar mentions we resemble her old master i thought it was very suspicious but i quickly brushed it away with the idea that most of the characters we meet do like the traveler at first glance ... i thought it was just mc tropes lol
Something that's been bugging me is the story never really explained HOW Rukkhadevata eradicated Forbidden Knowledge from Teyvat both times. The only mentions we get are from Rukkhadevata that 1) her experience from when Deshret unleashed the Forbidden Knowledge helped, and 2) she used the collection of dreams to do it. Like how's that supposed to work? I've been mostly assuming that it's just a fantasy mechanism that's too convoluted to try to really imagine and explain without boring us so they just wrote it off, but was there actually more to learn about it? For example, maybe she used dreams as some sort of a channel to send all Forbidden Knowledge to Deshret who's already bathing in it? Food for thought on the matter: the cause of the Traveler experiencing the Abyss Twin's memory about meeting who might be Deshret is a ley line disorder, but how they experienced it is through having a dream.
I had so many thoughts during this, yet the first one I put into words was: Oh so that's why Kaveh is out there expecting Alhaitham to treat him like royalty in his own house
love the video! all of it does seem to make sense, the only thing that bothers me is why the twins don't have eyes similar to Dain? I feel like they've been so consistent with that design element in so many other instances, it just feels weird that the twins don't have this trait...
Yeah, if they truly are Khaenri'an... why not have them have THE thing we know Khaenri'ans for? They could just made it very faint, like Kaeya's if they didn't want it to be too obvious, But no, they have pretty regular eyes.
im pretty sure that ashikai makes the point in one of her prev videos that the twins are fully summoned beyond teyvat and they just answered the call of khaenria so they could be royalty but not necessarily by blood? especially if they are directly related to the primordial one which would make the family tree even more insane
@@elan5614 I think she said Traveler Siblings are Khaenri’ahns, and have the same royal bloodline as King Irmin, but they were the type of royals who traveled across the universe, when the cataclysm happened, they were summoned back. Btw, I think between King Irmin and The Twins, the twins should be older because from what I remember they witnessed the birth of stars or something. So maybe The Twin siblings have another relative (p.s idk why Primordial Humans Project pops up in my mind rn) that married someone with star-shaped pupils (idk why I imagine it was the Seelie that fell in love with a human, lol) and that’s where King Irmin's direct ancestor came from, that’s why King Irmin (that Ashi theorized is also King Deshret) got the twin's looks but has different star-shaped pupils that are later inherited by all pure-blood Khaenriahns in the future. But if King Irmin = Deshret, shouldn’t there be more star -shape -pupils-human in Sumeru? IDK, my brain is exploding rn and my limited English is not helping. 😂
Deshy's eye was multicolored. Also, if he's a relative, that would make him a descender- Dain, Kaeya, and any other primogem-eyed Teyvatians are NOT descenders, so why would they have the same strange amber eyes?
A thought i've had when talking about the irminsul drawing from the abyss makes me think of the imaginary tree and the sea of quanta in honkai. Where the abyss is a mass of random information and what not and that Irminsul takes in this information and filters it and distributes it throughout the leylines and the reason forbidden knowledge is harmful is because it's unfiltered information from the abyss. The reason it drives people mad and corrupts them and the land on a physical level because that information would then be directly injected into Irminsul without being properly filtered.
You know, what is really strange? This crystal was in Enkanomiya ruins, not Chasm. At least, i have that feeling because of music (which was clearly Enkanomiyan all the way), trees, light and vibes, Enkanomiya is more bluish colors, and Chasm uses more yellow. Don't know if there are differences in architecture, but if there are, maybe it is different as well?
Paradisaea is actually a reference to the garden of Flowers (from "Orchard of Pairidaeza") which is a motif commonly used for Nabu or the goddess of flowers
So in regards to the Artifact = Primordial one + 4 shades theory, what if Deshret is the goblet and since a shade of the primordial one. That way he would also be a descender and the goblet imagery fits with his grail themes. Furthermore there is this diamond portrayed on the goblet possibly also referring to him
15:39 kaveh's vision story is also very striking, kaveh embodies the power of human ingenuity and is literally mocked by the heavens as he finds his vision in the ruins of his magnum opus. And the mourning flower!
Honestly, I'm here for Dottore burning Irminsul down. This tree just seems to cause more problems than it's worth. I wonder if the Fatui would be able to create their own knowledge tree and perfect it without having to worry about the issue of a erasing history from peoples minds and stuff.
It’s fascinating to see king Deshret’s character match with king Solomon but also with Egyptian god Ra. While he also resembles of Gilgamesh. Especially his obsession for immortality.
When the crystal drops back into the water 5:50, you can see it makes a Sun shape that is eclipsed just like the Spiral Abyss Moon Spire. Also to make the bright color in the middle for the eclipsed Sun, it's made up of 2 other circles with one being golden and the other a deepen blue. It isn't to farfetched to call it a Sun and Moon.
Personally I think forbidden knowledge is like "meta" knowledge (like an NPC knowing they're in a game; that kind of meta) or cosmic knowledge that is so mind-breaking and so fundamentally incompatible with (Teyvatian) human thought that the Ley Lines reflect that widespread mental distress and "horrible knowledge" in the form of the dark muck, and viceversa: People who have had contact with forbidden knowledge, have had their memories permanently engraved into the Ley Lines, making the knowledge, the muck and the pain persist after death. If Karmic debt and Tatarigami are a Ley Line disorder caused by the negative emotions of fell gods, then abyssal muck is a Ley Line disorder caused by severe and chronic existential dread.
Forbidden Knowledge behaves a lot like eldritch knowledge. Things that are completely incomprehensible. Given that Irminsul has parallels to computer data and storage, I would argue that in that context, it's like data encoded in a format different than what the current operating system can read, so when a mind tries to read it, it comes back as incomprehensible garbage, creating metaphorical brain damage. It's "knowledge" because it is comprehensible to being who are able to decode it, but it is nothing but destructive to those who are not.
Little correction, Charlemagne, Chlothar I and Charibert I were not French kings as you claimed in two videos now. France didn't exist at that point in time and the Franks(≠French) where a Germanic tribe and kingdom. After Charlemagne's death his son ruled the Frankish Kingdom(≠France) and after his death the kingdom was split into three parts. Two of the three parts (West Francia) would later in history become what today is France and the third part (East Francia) would later become what today is Germany.
Whoever the Sinner is, he has the power to undo the Curse of Immortality. I can't believe I didn't notice that till now. We see him removing it from Chlothar during the quest and is confirmed later when Chlothar tells us that only a sinner can save a sinner. 🤯
Eh, a good storyteller is doing something wrong if their audience can't follow the trail they are laying down. Those people who like to put in a sUrPrISe TwIst!!11! nobody can see coming are just doing it wrong, imho.
Right, I will post here my theories on Khaenri'ah that popped up from this quest. One (minor) correction: Charlemagne and his forefathers were *Franks* not *French,* the French identity would only start from Hugh Capet in 987 when West-Francia from the Carolingians was succeeded by the Kingdom of France under the Capetians. Although, just as you said with the Knights Templar, Hoyo will have probably mucked them up together because 'semantics'. ANYWAY, Stay with me, because IRL Frankish (and Dutch) history ties in creepily well with Khaenri'ah. IRL, Chlothar's father, Clovis, was the first King of the Franks that united all seperate Frankish groups under one banner, and the first CATHOLIC/Christian Frankish ruler to boot. Even though the Roman Empire before had considered Christianity as its state religion, at the fringes of the empire (aka the Low Countries (Belgium+Netherlands) where the Franks had their main power base) this wasn't really an enforced thing so a lot of Germanic people were still worshippers of the old Germanic/Norse pantheon *cough Odin cough.* After roughly 300 years of dynastic inheritance shenanigans, Charlemagne became Emperor of the 'Holy Roman Empire', crowned by the Pope. This was the first time after the Fall of the (Western) Roman Empire that a major 'centralised' empire had arisen, and in contrast to the old polytheistic empire, this one was Christian aka they *did away of the old gods of both Germanic and Roman mythology,* similar to how Khaenri'ah did away with the Seven and Celestia and with their own King as leader (which could possibly be tied to a Biblical figure now?) After Charlemagne's death, the Empire was split in three (West-, Middle- and East-Francia) but Middle was quickly broken up and absorbed by the other two. These two states would eventually form *France* and *Germany* (and eventually spit out the before-mentioned Low Countries again but we'll get there). Now, after Khaenri'ah's fall, the direct survivors were split into two groups: the pure-blooded ones, becoming cursed with immortality, and the non-pure-blooded ones, getting cursed to become Hilichurls. OR perhaps also a THIRD group, which became the Abyssal Creatures before the Order was established which could correlate with Middle Francia where they were eventually kinda put together with one of the other two groups. Now, as history would go on, both France and the Holy Roman Empire/Germany had a BIG role in the development of Alchemy in the late Middle Ages, with two major figures being Nicholas Flamel (France) and Heinrich Agrippa (Germany). Khaenri'ah's main source of power and progress was... alchemy. even later in history, during the Enlightenment and Second Industrial Revolution, both France and Germany would *again* play a massive role in the development of chemistry, which is basically a better and improved continuation of alchemy. On the religious side, the Dutch Republic became a place where a lot of people from all across Europe would come together to publish their (to the Catholic Church) sinful thoughts about the Church and religion as a whole, just like Khaenri'ah became a place where people from all over Teyvat that did not worship the Seven and Celestia would unite. Now about Alberich. in the 11th century, one Alberic of Citeaux was one of the founders of the Cistercian order, which was based on the rules of Saint Benedict, and the thoughts of one Bernard of *Fontaine.* After roughly 100 years, this Cistercian order started to expand from France to the Low Countries (Belgium and Netherlands, here we are again!), where they started land reclamation projects to establish more fertile land to build and practice agriculture on, in the areas that in the past couple of centuries had been flooded and destroyed due to climate change and war. Khaenri'ah/Abyss Order under the regent Alberich clan wants to go back to their homeland. Kaeya Alberich is Khaenri'ah's 'last hope'. The Abyss Order wants to *rebuild their homeland*, just like how the land in the Low Countries, *the former homeland of the Franks,* was reconquered and rebuilt. The similarities are REALLY creepy.
I think that the Twins didn’t show up in Teyvat during the Cataclysm but way, way back when the war of the second throne was happening. I think they were summoned back to Teyvat and immediately sealed away by the Unknown God. Later Khanriah figured out how to unseal one of the twins. So I don’t think the twins are the descendants of Desheret, but actually older than him, his ancestors, or the same people from beyond the stars, like maybe the Primodial One. Then 500 years later, someone unsealed the sibling.
Ooh, fascinating! I'm of the opinion that Paimon is the one who unsealed the Traveler, though I only believe that to be true because I like to believe that Paimon is a former Heavenly Principle or that she's somehow related to Celestia and just exhausted her power in the same way Rukkadevata did. The lore behind her name is fascinating and really reveals a lot about where Hoyoverse might be going with Paimon as a character.
Kaveh and Deshret are also described as bright or illuminated and both really want the world to become Utopian. They also argue with the scribe a lot lol.
In regards to the twig using "sage" instead of "king": There are examples in our world of those words being used interchangeably. One of the most famous examples are Caspar, Melchior and Balthazar who are interchangeably called either kings, magi, or wise men. And what is a sage if not a wise man?
What a great Vid and compilation. I will need to re-watch this a couple times just to process all the information in it and see how it relates to my own theories. For me I didn't even consider the whole "Sinner" = a piece of Deshrit until I was watching Islands brain storming who the sinner was. And now I am suspecting that the thing Gold might have found with Albedo (Heart of Naberius) might effectively be a mini-cystral of what we saw during this quest. What this can lead to; well, I don't quite know yet. To think you and IslandXD are theorizing in the same direction, falls into the realm of two great minds thinking alike ! Keep up the great theory crafting, its great to consume !
One thing I noticed when I played was the area where the first locked door was. In that area there were 3 statues holding a light, however it looked as if there was supposed to be one more statue there as well. After the door is unlocked and you keep on moving, you’ll see another statue in the hallway right outside the sinners door that looks as though it’s been removed from the other 3. Every time I think of it I believe the sinner is just one of the primordial one’s 4 shades.
All, I’m gonna say, imagine the creator, thinking of all of the stuff making the whole story seven years before the game went into production that amazes me. The world is me, and they deserve a lot of praise putting all these religions together creating old is laure information and putting it together in a very interesting manner. Wow just wow.
Me and my brother have had this theory for a while now, that the twins are originally from Teyvat but from a different time period (all the wibbley wobbly timey liney stuff aside and before the 7 dragon lords ruled it)before they left to travel. Since time works differently in space by the time they came back to their home world it had changed drastically to one they didn't recognise and thought of it as a different planet. Since there had be in essence two massive changes.
6:25 this makes me raise an eyebrow at the fact that the twins are supposedly heirs of Khaenri’ah. Because if King Deshret DID turn out to be king Irmin then that would only Make the fact that he supposedly looks like the traveler very funny to me. (This was just a random thought that made me chuckle so I decided to comment it)
22:31 this description of the twins reminded me of Imunlaukr and the fall of Sal Vindagnyr. He too left the kingdom where he was very close with its rulers, only to come back and discover it was far too late to save anyone. And he was an outsider, like the twins are.
I love your videos they are sooooo mind blowing. Therer are so much information about Genshin Lore and myths and storys of the real world. Please keep making these videos because the are soo cool
I don't know if there's a video about this, but the whole "the siblings are descendents of Deshiret" part of the theory reminded me of the battle pass cutscene
Something strange off with the Deshret Crystal being the Sinner is that if you notice, right after the Deshret Black Star enters the pool/pond it comes out looking LIKE the purple Sinner crystal but just a few frames later he purifies himself (similar to how the traveler purified the Dvalin tear drop crystals) and ives in again so what was that about? I think this "Sinner" is like some kind of Fate Keeper, as in like he'll make sure everything will go as it is Fated to be. Maybe that's why he gave Clothar the powers to recover Cariberts mind because Carriberte is Destined to become the Lome of Fate Dain knowing this Sinner might also be because he is the One who Made Dain the Bough Keeper Remember Dain during his chasm quest says that he and the twin were journeying to "Seek their Fates" but they don't end their journeys together which means if we assume that the crystal is the King of Khenriah and the creator of the Irminsul tree then it would only make sense that Dain be made the "Bough Keeper" protector of the main branch or Irminsul which is a bit funny because Dain was also the captain of the Royal Guard protecting King Irmin's family tree Another candidate for this i have seen the Outlander who caused the end of the Seelie race He was an Outlander so power from beyond like the traveler He did cause the end of an entire race so "Sinner" And him knowing the traveler's fate could either be him being like the traveler (who is to defeat Dain and be the weaver of Destiny and Fate) OR Because he has already experienced the fate of an Outlander and expects that it will end the same Something strange about this voicelines is strange He tells the twin/traveler their fate to become the "Transcendent One" and that they will rise beyond the Fate bestoved to them But never says how it will happen or end The line is "I will shed a tear at the End of Time as I gaze back on your Life" He doesn't say at the end of your Time or Your Life but at the End of TIME What is this man suggesting why is this man predicting that he'll be thinking of the traveler at the end of Time / the world? A question you brought up about why would the Khenriahns summon their prince and princess from beyond. I think i have a theory regarding that. What if only one was being summoned while one was returning home You know how Aether claims that this is the first time that the twins have been to teyvat while Irminsul records say otherwise and Lumine has accepted the title of Princess What if she was the princess and Aether was not a prince he is a Descendar while Lumine is not. I think if this sage hanging down fromIrminsul is accurate then he must be looking for a Lumine Alternative like a different version of Lumine, the Ying to Lumine's Yang. One was from this world while one was brought to this world. I got this idea from what Sucrose said about the "Flower from another World" "Does being from this world and being of this world mean the same?" Because it doesn't make any sense if both are Descender why does the world only recognise Aether as one. If Lumine knew the reason behind their summoning why did she hide it from Aether. Why did she wait until after Khenriah's destruction began to wake Aether Wouldn't it make sense to tell him stuff so he can be helpful instead of being in the way And if both do belong to this world then why doesn Aether remember anything about it
This was super interesting! I'm pretty near-convinced now that the Sinner is Irmin, and likely also Deshret. Just makes too much sense with everything we know. Though this game likes to throw curveballs, so I guess we'll see.
Sooo does that mean the Goddess of flowers could be the "Unknown God" that brought the twins to Teyvat? She knew bringing back the Twins would kickstart a renewal of Desherets goal. Just some thoughts
Kaveh being a 4* like kaeya is more interesting to me bf if he is essentially a type of reincarnation of the scarlet king, then this is the second 4* that is heavily tied to the past and overall story of tevat. However i think unlike kaeya, he will be very indirect.
Little thing I noticed with this theory. In the scene of King Deshret's corruption, his black star bleeding out over his nation, it seems to go underground. My theory is that in this scene 1) it's showing that Khaenri'ah is under the desert of Sumeru and 2) Deshret is corrupting not only the desert but the kingdom below it.
Considering all that Enkanomiyan architecture style, I can't help but wonder whether Orobashi also plays a role in all of this. What if "the Sinner" is actually the combined consciousness of those who have obtained forbidden knowledge?
When you mentioned that the Goddess of flower is the union of a selie and human the Nephilim's suddenly pops out of my head. They are born by the union of human and angels some stories of Nephilim states that they are not allowed to be born in this world because they have power that can cause imbalance that would bring chaos and disaster to the world. That is why it is forbiden for an angel and human to have a child.
"It makes sense for them to carry around a little effigy of their king from which to draw courage from, right?" - Instantly reminded me of the song Plastic Jesus by Billy Idol
Another notable thing is that gods that ventured outside of teyvat and into the dark sea were branded as Evil by celestia, which might connect to deshret referring to himself as a Sinner. But also! I was reminded that although the God of Flowers didn't believe Deshret would succeed in rebelling against heaven, his failure would ultimately accelerate humanities loss of faith in the Gods, and if he did go on to found Khaenri'ah then she would have been exactly right. Also since Deshret was implied to have used the Nail that killed GoF to create the Eternal Oasis, the knowledge he used to do this would be a perfect starting point to inspire Khaenri'ah to try and retrieve the Dragonspine Nail during the cataclysm.
Candace is a descendant of King Deshret and her amber eye is the same color as the travelers so yes I think the twins and Deshret are related which means we are related to candace
Weren't the Black Serpent Knights also in Enkanomiya (which has similar architecture to the Upside Down city and the Sinner's temple) and in at least one of the giant Khaenri'ahn Mecha?
So yeah. Basically Celestia is honkai and gnosises are gems. Deshret is Genshin's Kebin that messed up with the void (quanta) and wanted to implement a big Hive Mind - Golden Slumber (project stigma) in order to overthrow the allmighty gods. Our MC is slowly becoming a herrscher of finality, gathering all herrschers powers touching statues. lol
If King Irmin, King Deshret, and Sinner are all one and the same, would it be possible that the reason why King Irmin disappeared was because he found the forbidden knowledge and the abyss? Later on, he resurfaces as king deshret, after preparing his army (abyss lectors and heralds), was then was sealed to that rock thingy to stop him. And then, he was able to escape that place because the sibling kinda undid the seals (3 triangle light thingy that we had to put in that door). 😅
The problem with that is it has to go the other way around he has to be a king deshret *before* irmin, because yeah all signs point to when he lost his mind to forbidden knowledge and the golden slumber was towards the end of the archon war. Which is part of what makes it so fascinating! I totally think they could be one and the same meaning he somehow regained his sanity only for things to all come tumbling down again with the Cataclysm
@@RenaDeles but kheanri'ah was before Sumeru became. From what I understand. But anyway, u do make sense. If both are one and the same, deshret and Irmin, it could mean that he is almost omniscient, as dainsleif stated at the end of the quest. 🤔
@@soulstealer5625 kheanri'ah is an ancient civilization. Not 500 years old. Kheanri'ah fell 500 years ago. Meaning they existed before that. They were the ones who created ruin guards and such so they were most probably involved with the archon wars which is 2000 years prior to the game. It's just that they have a godless nation and was not under the influence of the 7.
@@MithrilArtsandJewelry hmm i do recall they were active when Enknowiya was, around the time the snake was so not long around the archon war. Still, eclispe dynasty was the last dynasty so plenty of time for Deshret events to occur and then new role.
I guess another thing to add to this. The traveler can cure the Dvalin corrupted tear drop. The sinner can cure the mind of peoples corrupted salt or ease them. I can see them being related to the traveler in that sense/
so Deshret became the Abyss.. now that's a theory I would believe in. And I assume Tsaritsa is also heavily influenced by Deshret work to go to war with Heavenly Principle. No wonder the Unknown God mentioned about the arrogance of human at the beginning of game. Maybe it is due to the audacity to challenge the god or the fact that Deshret refused the gnosis.
This is in regards to the last bit you were talking about- how Dainleif could potentially be disagreeing w/ his ruler & seek help from the Abyss twins. So when Dainslef was narrating in the 'Teyvat Chapter Storyline Preview: Travail', who is the woman he was referring to? Cause King Deshret/Samiel/Irmin is a dude. If he were the king of Khaenri'ah, who is this woman he's trying to rescue if not the ruler of Khaenri'ah? And what's the significance of mentioning that she too loved those flowers? That he could potentially be referring to the goddess of flowers? "- Now, you who has set foot in this world. - Your journey has reached its end, but one final doorway remains. - Step forth, if you have understood the meaning of your journey. - Defeat me, command me to step aside, show me that you are worthier than I to rescue her. - Then, the threads of all fate will be yours to re-weave. - My memory has all but faded completely... But I will always remember how much she too, loved these flowers."
This also reminded me of that theory on reddit that says Deshret and Zhongli are connected (quite interesting theory), and also the simlarities between Aether and Zhongli's designs (that people have pointed out multiple times before). Also a lot of people have pointed out the similarities between Kaveh and Aether's designs, as well as Kaveh and Zhongli, and if you're right that Kaveh might (loosely) represent Deshret then it could be all connected somehow.. unless hoyo design team is lazy in which case they just copy design motifs from one character to another and there's no deeper meaning behind it all lol
I'm at the point where Dainslief has to be related to the Twins. Not because it's convenient but I believe it's accurate. Consider Abyss Order's Mission Statement. I believe Dainslief is a failed iteration of Aether by Lumine. Think of a fusion in this instance and Lumine couldn't locate Aether.
That is interesting. What about Dainslief being pure Khaenri’ahn? Both he and the Jester know one another and I believe as the Boughkeeper (he has access to Irminsul). So he would not have any relationship to the twins.
Nah, I don't think so, cause Hoyo gave us the choice to use either twin as the Traveler and Caribert showed that neither one is really different because their responses to the situation were so similar. So to think that it's specifically Lumine who specifically wanted to recreate or summon Aether doesn't really add up for me. Plus, it wouldn't make sense that he's pure Khaenri'ahn if this were the case
You can argue up and down about how Lumine is the true Abyss Sibling but even if that's the case it does not change how that idea wouldn't really... make sense for Lumine as the Traveler? So I highly doubt it.
The only reason why I've come to this conclusion is that I've personally perceived Aether as the protagonist of the story. While Lumine as the anti-hero. (I'm not saying antagonist yet because its not known what the Abyss Order's end goal is). I've treated the Fatui as the antagonistic faction.
@@JoltingZ I mean, it's true that Hoyo chose to feature Lumine as the Abyss sibling consistently, but I think that mostly has to do with marketing consistency. I might be horribly wrong but that's how I see it
That means 500 years ago, the Sinner try to conquer Teyat for humanity sake, but he wanted to tear down the heavenly principles and Celestia, to allow the humans to think for themselves, and not be ruled by the archons. But the heavenly principal and the other archons had no choice, but to destroy Khaenri’ah because I think he was trying to force it, but he’s so obsessed about protecting humanity, but he ended up creating monsters and giving everyone immortality, not realizing he’s turning them into monsters.
> 23:55 - 24:33 Oh wow. If this is actually the case, it would make more sense why Dain asked the Traveler's opinions and choices all the way back in Mondstadt. This could be the same reason why he's glad that the Traveler gave their thoughts and opinions on the whole Loom Of Fate situation during the Chasm Archon Quest.
![[3.5] Who is the "Sinner"? - Caribert Archon Quest Recap & Analysis (part 2/2) - Genshin Impact](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
