3 Chances to Collide with the SAME Airplane

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If there's anything I've learned from flying in the incredibly busy SoCal airspace, it's that we have to share the skies and work together as pilots to keep ourselves and each other safe. This was an interesting flight where we had THREE separate and unique opportunities to collide with the same airplane. Having complete situational awareness was key in avoiding a potential accident chain.
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Portions of ATC communication and the flight have been edited. This video is not instructional in any way. I am not a CFI. I am sharing my experience and thoughts about this flight and this should be taken as entertainment only. By sharing mistakes and accomplishments alike, hopefully the aviation community will benefit.
00:00 - Start
00:05 - Intro
00:21 - Scenario on TFP Ground School App
00:40 - Taking Off
00:49 - We Have to Share the Sky
01:05 - Help from Van Nuys
01:42 - Special Flight Rules Area, Bruh!
02:18 - We're going to Mexico!
02:55 - A Busy Day on the Way to SD
03:45 - Overhearing the Mooney on ATC
04:25 - Mooney going to overtake us
05:16 - San Diego Bay Corridor
05:41 - The San Diego Bay Sights
06:02 - Contact with Brown Tower
06:32 - Mooney Contacts Brown
06:48 - Mooney Descending
07:17 - Confirming landing instructions
07:31 - Advocating for Safety
08:06 - Setup for a potential accident?
08:58 - Landing Clearances
09:27 - Mooney landing clearance
09:32 - Converging Planes
09:48 - ADSB Deficiency
10:23 - Tower Calls out Traffic
10:44 - Landing
11:08 - One more Conflict
11:27 - Animal on Runway

Опубликовано:

20 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 126

@e2dub Год назад

Since the Mooney pilot never mentioned seeing you while in close proximity (4 mi NW Brown) I would’ve asked the controller if the Mooney had me in sight. When in doubt it’s usually better to communicate, even when it’s legally not required. I say “usually” because I’m not a fan of the arrival practice of some pilots who ask “any traffic in the pattern please advise” at non towered fields, as inbound arrivals should be listening far enough out to have a good idea of the traffic situation.

@spacedreaming Год назад

I don't know what's wrong with asking if anyone is listening and in the area before joining in, but sometimes there are pilots who don't even bother talking on the frequency at all. I had experienced that too, once, sharing downwind with a silent Mooney on my right wing. Either way, yes, keep looking out of the window for traffic, never know when a black helicopter hiding in the shadows might pop-up either! (yep, I had that happen too).

@ManNomad Год назад

You brought up some life saving points and some really tragic memories in LV. Never hesitate to confirm traffics contact with you and even talk through the tower to get confirmation from other traffic has you in contact. You have a beautiful family and no matter what you have to keep everyone safe regardless of what is required to do so. I just subscribed and I'm going to keep an eye on you to see if you increase your assertiveness in traffic conflicts so I can and others can learn from the real world situations. Thank you for your great videos and, when financially able, I will be talking to through ADSB.

@scottwillson5562 Год назад

You handled it well. I may have extended my downwind until I knew he’d turned base so I’d be behind him. I teach my students to turn a second or two earlier for final than they think and agree that’s best practice in your situation too. I think there’s concern that we may offend another pilot by leaving open the possibility they won’t do what they’re supposed to but we have to get over that. We have to maintain a buffer no matter what and get clarification whenever there’s a doubt.

@chrisschack9716 Год назад

I'd rather request a left 360 earlier if in doubt in this situation.

@gringoloco8576 Год назад

@@chrisschack9716 yeah could have done it while 3 or 4 miles out and let the Mooney just go on in.

@yfz350kid Год назад

I wonder if requesting a left 360 would have been appropriate if you felt pressure from the parallel approach. Very awesome you presented everything as you did.

@healerf18 Год назад

I'm wondering the same thing. I'm not sure ATC appreciates pilots asking for for left 360's, etc while in the pattern, but I would have been very tempted.

@Doulos.Romans8.34 Год назад

@@healerf18 yeah I think that would be more than fine. We should speak up when we think a problem might occur. Sure it may seem rude towards ATC but the safety of the flight is ultimately up to PIC.

@davidd6635 Год назад

Believe a Right 360?

@Doulos.Romans8.34 Год назад

@@davidd6635 A left 360 for 361BW

@insanomonkey Год назад

I would've just asked to extend my downwind to let the Mooney turn his base first, I think the controller would've likely approved that

@ingramleedy Год назад

I might have extended the downwind until I had the traffic (mooney) in sight and wait for the mooney to turn it's base on wing, then tuned based. Kinda like a #2 for landing, but give some breathing room. I probably would have requested from tower my plan.

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

That's a good idea. I think sometimes we just kind of do what tower wants us to and forget that we are responsible for our own separation while VFR even in a Class D. It's good to look back on situations like this and analyze them for nuance.

@ingramleedy Год назад

@@SoCalFlyingMonkey Agreed. It really is the best way to learn to to revisit these events. As I am sure you do, I watch the recent accidents to learn from each of them. Thank you for publishing these kind of videos. It's very brave. In fact, your Cherokee 6 story got me flying.

@aggibson74 Год назад

Gonna grab my popcorn and wait for Dan Gryder to chime in.

@christophernowak3510 Год назад

Another great video rich with learning experiences. The entire entry into the Brown Airport made my neck hairs stand on end. When you entered the pattern, I was thinking if a left 360 would have given you the situational information you needed, and also, possibly, provided spacing in the pattern so you did not have to worry about converging on each other when turning to final. I do like your angled approach on final that you took to mitigate risks.

@jumpingbean4735 Год назад

Another consideration is that the pattern altitude for 26L at Brown is 600' AGL vs your 1000' AGL on 26R, which may have provided a built-in safety factor but also could be why one may not see opposing traffic if they didn't know to be looking down there. I think your content is fantastic and the points you bring up are important in getting this much needed conversation started

@gringoloco8576 Год назад

Yet the Mooney was at the same height according to the adsB track near the airport…..

@ericbuhrendorf Год назад

Great video but why not take control of the conflict and pull power and create the wider margin? You got it done but just seemed like such an easy way to widen the safety opportunity.

@AndresHerrera-jf3cd Год назад

If he did that then it wouldn’t be a click bait video

@jeffreybryner1196 Год назад

Outstanding learning video. Thanks!

@acirinelli Год назад

I don't like continuing in these situations. I likely would have done a big left 360 and let him go by or just slow down a bit and let him pass.

@tommydapilot3681 Год назад

yeah I agree as well, I was in a similar position when doing a straight in at KHHR and a cirrus was right on my tail so I had to do a lil 360 as he was faster.

@robertwalls5794 Год назад

I don't know squat about being a pilot and honestly I'm not a fan of flying but your videos are really good in every aspect and I enjoy watching. Great job!

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

Glad you like them! Thank you!

@GlensHangar Год назад

Can't wait for the Mexico cross border flight - Bucket list for us is Canada to Mexico in 2024. We recently had a flight with a couple of planes who left the same airport and flew the same route as us to the destination airport; Had them on the radio the whole way, knew they were close, but never could get a visual on them... they weren't ADS-B equipped, and we were outside radar coverage. I eventually flew a circle back to let them get well ahead of me to reduce the conflict. But it was unnerving to say the least.

@chrisbrown05819 Год назад

I flown a Cherokee six out of Corona to Loreto Mexico about five times! I love that part of Mexico what a great trip to do! Reminds you how good we have it in this country with flying! Hope you had a great time!! One of my top five favorite places to fly is the Baja!!!

@hamishkebb3550 Год назад

Great video of the complexities flying in congested airspace what if weather was cloudy

@adamseumanutafa3259 Год назад

Thanks, enjoyed that lesson especially the situational awareness and visual of the ADS-b positional “jump.” Thanks, I’ll definitely be passing on that gem to my clients.

@braylenfab6523 Год назад

I fly at an airport where this occurs regularly because of the parallel runways we have. Undershooting a final turn is always the best option and similar to you, I always have those midair collisions running through my mind in scenarios like this. I definitely agree with your point about advocating for your safety. No harm in making sure your safe

@milesgrishman5542 Год назад

had to deal with this about 10 times today flying a seminole PA- 44 dealing with traffic on the parallel. can be some freaky shit that keeps you on your toes for sure

@earnedwings5206 Год назад

Great decision to make a diagonal base-leg, always better safe than sorry. Thank you for sharing.

@coppi60 Год назад

What a great video!!~!~ Thanks.

@johnsapienza4912 Год назад

One of your best, and your recollection of the recent LV accident is spot on. It is eerie how similar your arrival and their arrival mirrored each other. I fly out east in heavy traffic areas, and at many towered and non-towered airports. Each time I fly I try to think of all the potentials for conflict but I am sure that there are many I have missed. Your dogleg turn to final is exactly what I would have done too. I am more than happy to do all I can to help the other guy avoid me! One thing that I am surprised about is that you don't wear sunglasses out there. It seems like as bright as the desert terrain is they would help a little. I have prescription ones I use and I swear by them. Thanks for all you do on these videos. They are always phenomenal!

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

Thanks for the support and comment! I usually do wear sunglasses- not sure why i didnt have them on this time. I think the ones I had during this flight were polarized which blacks out my engine monitor. haha. I have since picked up a pair of no pola glasses and wear them. :)

@alexrcastillo1977 Год назад

Great lesson......

@ClayCaviness Год назад

Hey, opposing bases! Good job working through the conflicts.

@Coops777 Год назад

Great video thankyou!

@gringoloco8576 Год назад

I’m a CFI at a very busy flight school at an uncontrolled field. We often have 4 to 16 planes in the pattern coming and going at once. More communication is always good especially since you’re not stepping on other peoples comms with only 2 of you there. I would also probably have suggested extending downwind or even requesting the tower to let you do a standard rate left 360 as you were both approaching the airport. This would have given you the chance to visually spot him sooner and also would have given him 2 mins to pass well ahead of you into the airport area. The only danger there is making sure you can see him as you make the turn and eventually face his direction of flight, but left would have you turning away from him which would have given more separation. We use 360s often when we have traffic congestion happening at our uncontrolled field to delay entry into the pattern.

@jbond350 Год назад

Thanks for the video, great educational opportunity. I am not a pilot (yet), but seeing things like this can really help people to remember to have a clear picture of what is going on around them so as to prevent incidents as much as possible. Things could have ended up so much worse, your calm and collected manner and situational awareness (as well as the awareness of the Mooney pilot) helped you all get to the airport safely!! Thank you again for the lesson.

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

glad you enjoyed it! thanks for the supportive comment!

@StrangerThingsVip Год назад

11:30 "It's so cute" :)

@paratyshow Год назад

👍☑Tks Eric, well done, filmed, edited and explained!

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

Thanks! 👍

@Lifebackmed Год назад

Had this happen to me twice within a few week period. I just exited the pattern, did a couple 360s while waiting for the traffic in the pattern then came back in to land

@cherokeerookie8973 Год назад

So happy you’re doing a fly to Mexico video. One of the most rewarding things I’ve done in GA! Gone as far as Puerto Vallarta.

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

It is so rewarding you are right! Would love to fly even farther than Baja.

@gringoloco8576 Год назад

How is security of the aircraft down there? I’d always assume I would come back to missing avionics etc,

@cherokeerookie8973 Год назад

@@gringoloco8576 it’s actually pretty tight. The marines usually are the ones looking after the ramp.

@dsinha99 Год назад

Great video, I wonder if in a situation like this, extending the downwind leg to let the Mooney get on final before making the base turn would've been safer.

@loganbdrake Год назад

I immediately thought of the incident at North Las Vegas with the Malibu and 172.. Crazy! As someone working on their private pilot license, I personally probably would’ve asked for an extension downwind or a left 360 just to give extra spacing. (Given I had extra fuel)

@charlestym6322 Год назад

Great work

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

Thank you! Cheers!

@paulnjiru4722 Год назад

Hey Eric! Amazing adventure flights over So-Cal and trips to shoot/edit movies! Inspired, I've also ventured into film production (TV ads, short films and documentaries), plan to learn to fly and someday own my own aeroplane around scenic locations here in Kenya and around Africa! Thanks again!! PS. Wish you'd be my instructor! 😊

@gringoloco8576 Год назад

Nice diagonal entry that was smart. I think I would have extended downwind in this scenario. Let the Mooney land. The controller was just really gambling here with the setup he gave you.

@JustaPilot1 Год назад

Story time. I was in the DC SFRA headed to VKX inside the FRZ. A Cessna launched out of W32, next to VKX, headed out of the FRZ at my flight path. We were both under positive radar control, the same freq. The short version he jinked into me 4 times (ADS-B) as I was maneuvering to avoid. The controller corrected him on each maneuver. To deconflict the controller had me turn west and stay on that heading until the Cessna was dear. After we were clear of each other the Cessna was actually headed for the wrong gate and had to be corrected on that.

@gringoloco8576 Год назад

The Mooney did say he was overflying the field at first, that definitely should have caught more attention than it did. At least you had him on adsB.

@kenthompson3730 Год назад

Seems like there was too much chatter from the right seat during critical phases of flight. A sterile cockpit is called for when nearing an airport, particularly with a known potential traffic conflict. Same goes with the “tour guide” type commentary. That environment is just too busy for chit chat. Passengers should help watch for traffic and not talk unless they have something to report. Plenty of find for chatting when you get into a less hostile environment, like at altitude on your next leg.

@chrisc161 Год назад

Brown field. My home airport. I hope you had a good experience.

@chrisc161 Год назад

It’s funny I do the same diagonal pattern on final if I know there is an aircraft on the left runway.

@younghils Год назад

would it have been possible for u to extend your downwind? great lesson

@xmazurx Год назад

I was thinking the same thing. Or why not get slower beforehand letting the faster plane overtake you?

@reeltrides911S Год назад

Good airmanship. I would have asked the controller to extend my downwind for a longer final to make sure the Mooney was on the ground. Technology is great and a great aid. But always rely on visual references outside as well. Cool video

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

that would have been a good idea as well!

@ahmadsamadzai8255 Год назад

Would love to see how you go to Mexico from LA. Thanks

@oscarvilla8442 Год назад

Forget asking the controller, I would have asked the Mooney straight up if he had me in sight. Safety first

@LiviuDnistran Год назад

Honestly, great lesson, but no conflict in any of the situations you listed. You were advsed in controlled air space about the other aircraft being behind and above. So, no factor. In the traffic pattern if you were unsure, you could have asked for an extended downwind (you being the slowest aircraft, would have given more time and space to the Mooney) OR asked for an orbit befor entering base. After landing, you were told to hold short due to traffic. Why was that ever a conflict? Aside from all of this, you are flying VFR so you need to keep your eyes out of the cockpit for traffic. Again, just the basics of VFR. I really like your content, but this was a bit too much drama in my opinion.

@walthastingsRV-7A Год назад

Kind of like when the movie “ trailer” looks very exciting, but the movie turns out to be kind of boring!🙄

@Peacewind152 Год назад

Man, I wish tfp GS was available in Canada

@ibgarrett Год назад

Regarding the traffic data on the iPad - yeah, like weather it is going to lag a bit from the real world. That's why it only should be used for a reference point and to lead the traffic indicator forward. I think there's a bit of a community out there who thinks if they see it on the iPad/Foreflight/Fishfinder it's good enough. If I'm ever advised on traffic I may start with FF but I will ALWAYS back it up with a visual eyes on out the window before I confirm I have the traffic in sight. I also do the diagonal approach to the threshold when there is opposing traffic coming in. One last item is if the tower had cleared traffic to land while you're on downwind with instructions that we can turn once the traffic has passed. While tower doesn't have to grant it, I often will ask for tower to call my base as a second set of eyes. It doesn't absolve me from see and avoid, but it is a request to have an extra set of eyes out the window. I've had my fair share of airplanes pass me on final while I'm on the downwind and I've never seen them...

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

That;s a very good idea to ask tower to call your base. Good suggestion!

@ibgarrett Год назад

@@SoCalFlyingMonkey Depending upon the tower they may/may not do it and they are still not responsible for separation, but when it's busy all eyes helps. I got into the habit of doing that after I turned before I should and found myself in front of an airplane on final. That falls into the "never again" category.

@Uncl3 Год назад

First, I’m a non-pilot IRL (haven’t flown since ‘92). Second, yes, you should’ve asked if Mooney had you in sight…talk to each other! Third, I’m excited to get a Saratoga in MSFS on the Xbox, so I can recreate some of your flights! Lastly, thank you for the #UMMazing video. Didn’t a fatal mid-air happen with this setup with parallel runways? 👍❤️🛩🎮 Should’ve waited to the end…you talk about fatal accident. 💔🥺

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

that Saratoga in the flight sim sounds like fun!

@rrad3926 Год назад

It never hurts to make sure everyone has the same mental model.

@santino2681 Год назад

nice one

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

Thanks!!!

@georgeo162 Год назад

Is extending downwind a good option in situations like this? After LV, I’d want to avoid any similar setup.

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

yes that would have been a very good option

@msnpassjan2004 Год назад

7:40 Yes and why couldn't the Mooney just slow down and follow you? The arrival time would still be the same, right ?

@xheralt Год назад

Get-there-itis

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

They definitely could have.

@chrisschack9716 Год назад

Your VGT illustration shows them for the 12s when they were actually landing the 30s, but the end result was the same ... aircraft for the left side goes to the right side, probably not seeing the left runway and fixating on the right side as left. SDM is similar in a way, 26L starts further down though it looks a great deal different.

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

oh wow can't believe I missed that. I read the accident report and watched some videos about it...looked at that ground track I guess because of how the picture was oriented with the ground track I didn't think about the orientation. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm glad I didnt claim it was accurate! haha . I hope it still gets the point across!

@Clayly_1 Год назад

I have a question how much was it to get your license's

@davidd6635 Год назад

Suggest thru high traffic / congested areas the co-pilot have eyes Outside the cockpit.

@guyrandom1 Год назад

Cirrus not talking to atc, What a suprise lol

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

haha In all fairness I think we was coming from a tower or transiting the corridor. There are a few frequencies you could be on in some of the areas down there.

@tmusky1134 Год назад

Still just a low time student but I would maybe think of requesting a 360 or extending my downwind just to let the faster Mooney get ahead of me prior to getting too far into the pattern. I don't like the idea of converging base legs

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

both good ideas.

@markusp1788 Год назад

File an ASRS report? Twr controller could've extended either one's downwind so the entry to finals would've been more laterally separated. Sepration is his responsibility when at the pattern?

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

I didnt file a report on this one but maybe could have? It was sort of a normal situation but just good to be aware of possible pitfalls during the three moments presented here...

@bajabirdbusters Год назад

Where do you guys stay down there. We are huge fans of the villa Del Palmar. Love loreto,

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

Loreto Bay air bnb. so great!

@johnfitzpatrick2469 Год назад

G,day from Sydney Australia. "My nickel on the grass" ATC often governs airspeed in class A airspace to keep separation. Why not the kites? 🌏🛩️

@msnpassjan2004 Год назад

Can you use ForeFlight to track the other aircraft in real time?

@msnpassjan2004 Год назад

10:10 Apparently not !!!

@nevadahamaker7149 Год назад

I don't know how timely ADS-B in data is supposed to be, but I also have noticed that it often lags noticeably. I've also seen a couple times an aircraft on my tablet that wasn't actually there. In one instance, I was maneuvering to enter the 45 for a left pattern to land. I saw on the screen what appeared to be an airplane overtaking me. I was looking around, trying to spot it, but it wasn't there. It then disappeared from the screen. It was a phantom. While ADS-B is fantastic for improved situational awareness, and it has kept me out of at least two potential collisions, it can only supplement visual scanning, it cannot replace it.

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

totally agree. keep your eyes outside and use ADSB as a general guide...

@thebadgerpilot Год назад

I think you handled things just fine. Tower maybe could have given an earlier heads up or reminder not to overshoot

@jmcguire5151 Год назад

Would be nice to have a second pair of eyes in the side seat.

@reason6835 Год назад

Maybe extend your downwind a little to create more space between you two?

@wb6anp Год назад

Too bad the ground school is so expensive, being retired I have to watch spending especially if I want to keep flying.

@jfkenney1968 Год назад

First off the Mooney pilot should have just slowed down to stay in trail of you, then the other issues go away. One other thing is maybe you could have requested a short approach instead of flying a normal pattern. You clearly had better situational awareness than the Mooney pilot, given he misstated his position on initial contact.

@javiation8394 Год назад

Why not cut power for a few to get the Mooney more ahead of you?

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

That also would have been a good option.

@stewc625 Год назад

Great video, but I just wonder why, with your whole family on board, you wouldn't just take yourself out of the potential conflict by either flying a 360, or asking to extend your downwind a few more miles to take a longer final and let him get down first. While not a pilot, I come from an entire family of aviators and I can remember my grandfather telling me "the only person flying the airplane is you, not the controller. You don't like what the controller is putting you into, you come up with a solution to get out of it and tell the controller what you're doing." Beats worrying whether that Mooney is a competent pilot.

@TomCook1993 Год назад

Are you worried about WHP closing?

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

a little.

@Gelathius Год назад

Unfortunately I dont think that app works for Android

@fingerhorn4 Год назад

I don't get it. Surely the best solution for you would be to extend your downwind to make sure neither aircraft was pointing towards each other on base. Extending downwind is your right as an option. It would have saved all the anxiety. Also the Mooney pilot was distinctly unhelpful. Knowing he was catching up he should have widened his downwind and coordinated with you but instead he just kept an overtaking trajectory - frankly selfish and rather stupid. Lastly, the controller should have insisted on one of the two above options for proper safety and separation.

@MagicBiscuitShow Год назад

Yes ... one must be assertive and with confirmation. Too much at stake.

@paulnjiru4722 Год назад

*fly around

@FlySkies Год назад

Nice video. One thing, though: I don't think it is safe for your wife to have that wrap or fabric over the yoke while you are flying. Might get wrapped and block its movement. Just saying ...

@SoCalFlyingMonkey Год назад

we talked about it while flying. She was monitoring its position and knew that if we had to make any maneuvers to take it down and also to take it down when we started descending for the airport. But its definitely good to think about and be aware of.

@pesto12601 Год назад

You should have just "gone around"... taken the extra 4 minutes and waited for the other traffic to land.

@xheralt Год назад

That teaches the pushy fast guys that pushing other planes around to get what they want works. Standing one's ground -- safely! -- and maybe throwing a scare into the other pilot (who is hopefully not totally oblivious) can be useful on occasion.

@pesto12601 Год назад

@@xheralt Totally disagree.. you don't fool around in a plane or car.. one small mistake and you are dead (and your passengers / family go with you).. all because you want to "teach someone a lesson?). Had a driver that didn't appreciate me doing the speed limit and started riding my tail the other day - gave me a bit of light flashing too.. now, I could have brake checked him... slowed down.. given him the finger in the mirror... you know to "throw a scare into him" or make sure I was "teaching the pushy fast guy" that he could not push me around. Instead, I just continued driving the speed limit and within 20 seconds, he backed off and followed me kindly for 20 miles... no road rage.. no big deal and myself and my family made it home 100% ok.

@waynemenzi4288 Год назад

Your wife needs to stop talking and looking at her phone, and help you look for traffic.

@loveplanes Год назад

Thanks for sharing! However I do have some comments… I suggest to don’t cover or put anything over the joke! Nice yellow thing but that scary me more than the traffic… Yes! We as a pilots needs to point and ask direct questions and you could ask to extend downwind, depart to the west and try again, left 360, etc. No reason to rush. Why turn base? Why to do a diagonal final? You explained why you did it.. but no need to put the plane in front of another for any reason 🤯🤯🤯. Is not enough to keep that traffic insight… Yes, ADSB has a delay and depends on the frequency, how the signals are routed, etc. additionally, some traffic just disappear when is low. 🤯🤯🤯 Be safe… Sorry…I don’t like this one, a bit stressful. love your videos, style, etc.. but this was 100% preventable! Stay safe. You have a lovely family. Blue skies

@MikesGarageReviews Год назад

I think the pilot trying to race you to the airport is irresponsible and air traffic control should’ve told him to fly vfr away from the airport until you landed