I think the answer to the question as to whether Gypsy willingly gives up her babies to the aunts or if she is outranked and therefore forced to give them up is to watch the aunts with other babies. Do all or most of the mothers utilize the aunts regularly? Or do they stalk Gypsy and keep her baby from her? A "normal" babysitter will give the baby back in a reasonable amount of time or when they cry nonstop for their mom or when they need to nurse. We've all seen Rudy keep Kailey from Gypsy to the point of dehydration and malnutrition. I just don't have the..... Rudy is such a blessing.... feeling like so many others do. I think Gypsy would be a much better mother if she was allowed to actually keep her baby.
I have not completely landed on an opinion about Gypsy yet, so my theories about her could change. That said, I like your approach of comparing the aunts behavior toward Gypsy and other mothers. I lean towards agreeing with you that the aunts pressure Gypsy if not take her babies outright because the hierarchy plays such a huge role in the behavior of all troop members. I'd love it if we could see how aunts take possession of Kody or future Gypsy babies, which might put our questions to rest. Arroz once said he believes Gypsy has some sort of mental impairment and I think so too. My working theory is that she is something like very slow or is mentally retarded and she may have other mental illness(es) too. This would make it easier for the aunts to take advantage of her or for Gypsy to not know how to mother correctly. For example, Gypsy may unknowingly leave her baby open to being taken by an aunt without meaning to turn the baby over to them. We have seen Gypsy defend her children so her basic maternal instinct is there. I guess what I'm saying is I think the hierarchy and Gypsy's mental state affect the aunting of Gypsy's kids but I'm not exactly sure how. That's why I'm not sure if the aunts take the baby outright, if they pressure Gypsy (such as bribe by grooming), if they step in because they misinterpret Gypsy's behavior due to her mental issues, or if Gypsy intentionally hands them over. Hopefully time will tell and we'll get a clearer picture. p.s. Just thinking about mental illness in macaques, I wonder if that has ever been studied or researched. Would be fascinating but I don't think humans could really understand it perfectly, too many limitations due to our lack of understanding of illnesses they could have that humans don't, inability to communicate with them, our gaps in understanding their behavior, "language" (sounds/vocalizations), cultures, etc. and probably too much reliance on using human mental illnesses as a framework.
I admit I was relieved to see Kody was in Rudy's care. Year after year with no baby has Shary quite behind. She doesn't know how to hold baby and was trying all sorts of things Kody is probably too young to understand yet.
Aunt Rudy..the best aunty out there..and the best chance this little fella has of real love..god she must miss our lil Kailey so much she still looks sad🐵🙈🙊🐒🙉💞🇬🇧💔💔
Kody is adorable and such a chill baby! Love him i still think they target Gypsy for her babies because she is low ranking and she can't deny any of them anything including her baby
It is so amazing to watch the bond forming already between Kodi and Rudy&Ruby❤ As we watched him with Shary he fought to get away but as we watch him sitting there with Ruby it fills heart!❤ ok back to the video.....lol
I've felt since Knotty was a baby that the aunts kind of stalk Gypsy. I would see her run from them back then, but maybe she's resigned herself to it, and gotten used to giving them up. The aunts as well know they will get their baby fix and just line up for their turn. They are in relentless pursuit. The only loser is the baby. They don't get fed like the other babies do, and are in constant stress wanting Gypsy, her milk, who like we see here is sitting by in plain view of her baby. She can't fight for them when there is more than one aunt, her ranking and babys' safety factors in. I like Gypsy, I don't always understand her but I feel she's in a no win position for her and her baby. Luckily the aunts aren't mean they just deprive the babies of much needed nutrition. I would probably feel less conflicted about it if they got fed more. Clearly I'm over thinking it, and forgetting they are wild animals, but to see another precious little one of Gypsys, and Kody is adorable, go through the waiting game again weighs on the heart. :')
"Relentless pursuit" Two of those monkeys are Gypsy's own daughters. You need to listen to Arroz. He is the one there, he has been following, and he knows the dynamics. Rudy is not stealing babies. Gypsy can not handle a newborn after a short time. Those of us here from the start have watched her year after year leaving her babies up to others and if they try to go to her when she needs them to stay away, she bites them. She has issues she can't control, and she needs others to help her. This isn't Cambodia.
@@Mandy7D7 With all due respect I too have been a viewer from the beginning, since Arroz filmed baby Baty. I also have always listened closely to Arroz and haven't missed an episode. I actually have charts on all of them, births, deaths, and sterilizations. They are charted by family units. Arroz and I are both healthcare professionals, myself a pediatric RN, BSN. I understand all of the medical terminology he uses, he's obviously a brillant and compassionate MD. Medical professionals can be very objective however, sometimes the heart gets involved. I know Krissy is Gypsys' daughter, Rudy is not and I don't have record of the third aunt. I hope you take my message in the spirit it's given, just explaining myself. I wish you well.
I beg to differ. I have watched video where it straight up looked like rudy was deliberately keeping kailey from gypsy. Gypsy has on many times stayed trying to get her baby back. And then other times she ignores them when they r by her. Politics of being a monkey i guess. But watch closely rudy does get very possessive of the babies.
Mandy D You can't have seen her handing over her babies to Ruddy because then should we and we haven't. I've watched from the beginning and I've seen most episode 3-4 times. Read about hierarchy then maybe you can see clearer what's happening. The "aunts" keep follow Gypsy til they get an opening to take her baby. Why don't they follow for example Lizzy or some of the other mother's? They do ask other mother now and then but never stalk them like they do Gypsy. That's because they're high ranking. Gypsy is an easy target for them. 🤓🏴☠️🇸🇪
I would like to have seen when Rudy got a hold of Cody it's funny that Rudy would show up right next to Gypsy arroz cutaway to other monkey's and when he went back to Cody Rudy had him I believe Rudy should be the only babysitter for Kodi and maybe Chrissy
Charles Howard So would I. Cherie pulled Kody sharply back when when Gypsy reached for him. I don’t think Gypsy was so thrilled to hand her baby over to her. She is sitting closely by and allowing herself to be groomed with her back turned. That usually is a signal that she is acknowledging the hierarchy. But it looks like she wishes to be close at hand to get her baby back when the Aunt finally relents.
Poor Shary. She just doesn’t have a clue about how to hold/carry a baby. She looks so funny whenever she is baby-sitting. It’s just plain embarrassing.
Has Lancy been picking up Luffy by his ears..should be called wingnut as they stick out so much..cute lil guy though..poor Kody..learning from a very young age that mom isnt very interested..passed around to anyone who wants a piece of him..poor lad.. 💞🇬🇧🙉🐵🙈🙊🐒🙏👏👍
Rudy is not stealing babies. Gypsy can not handle a newborn after a short time. Those of us here from the start have watched her leave them and if they try to go to her she bites them. She has mental struggles she can't control. Rudy has always been there for her and the other two you are seeing are Gypsy's daughters.
Mandy D Have you ever seen more than let's say twice, Gypsy hand over her baby by free will to someone else? Haven't you seen what happens what she tries to take her baby back? She's to low ranking to demand her child from a "babysitter".
Mandy D That’s not true Mandy. Rudy’s always there because she’s higher ranked and sterilized and she CAN take Gypsy’s babies. Gypsy has no choice. She never gets to fully bond with her newborns.
Kathie Kossor Your right about that. Missing bonding which is important both ways. Another viewer asked if rhesus macaques mothers produce Oxytocin and they do. Researchers suggesting that oxytocin sensitivity may increase early social motivation/behaviours in the newborns. So it's important for the babies to be with their mothers. 🤓🏴☠️🇸🇪
Tina from skull head is also low ranking. But she never gives her babies to anyone. She’s too protective about her baby. There’s are so many low ranking monkey but never seen giving upon to higher ranking babysitter.
I'm not sure how "caring" Aunt Rudy is! The baby NEEDS FOODS😭😞💔. I used to LOVE monkeys, but the more I watch, the more depressing how selfish & cruel they grow up to be, from emptying the pouches of little babies to torturing little ones until they kill them💔
I think we are all guilty of anthropomorphizing monkeys- nature is value neutral so what we see is cruel, they see as survival. That's why humans are different. I'm not disagreeing with you- I get upset when I see Tina raid Teeny's pouches, too. I get enraged by it, actually. But I also see similarities- we put our kids with nannies and daycare- and what Gypsy is doing isn't much different than that- except she's not exactly a career woman (or maybe she is) lol.
It breaks my heart when Gypsy's babies are right next to her and struggling to get to her but she just turns away and that's about all she can do. Can't imagine how confused and lost that makes them feel. Before the naysayers with the "stop humanizing them" and "they don't feel emotions" start the lecturing..... you can see the baby is agitated and struggling to get away from the babysitter. So, it's not about just providing warmth and milk. IMO those that are higher up and sterilized use Gypsy's babies to be surrogate mothers and Rudy is the worst. I bet if they let the baby go to her then Gypsy would take her baby back. Because of her low rank the only time she's groomed and allowed to get some food is when she has a baby they can take.
I'm one of those who usually say don't humanise there monkeys but I don't have to this time because rhesus macaques as many primates and other species to feel some of those feelings were call basic but I do think they can feel more. We don't understand them. Animals in my opinion are more intelligent than we give them credit for. 🤓🏴☠️🇸🇪
Poor lil Kody, looks like he’s got a case of dry mouth going on.🥴. I do think these females tend to take advantage of Gypsy, especially Rudy, she’s gotten very possessive and I feel sometimes Gypsy is ready to take her baby back but is hesitant out of fear perhaps.🤔
Rudy is top notch- she always makes sure Cody can see Mum although she's got the death grip on him. She's a great Nanny and Gypsy is so lucky to have her. I don't know who is taking advantage of whom- it's probably more of a symbiotic relationship, to answer your question, Arroz. Not sure of the answer, but like so much of monkey society (from what you have taught us). I would say all parties benefit from this arrangement.
I don't care what everyone says but Gypsy is a bad mother and she should be the one sterilized because what's the point on keep having babies if she won't care for them? She's way to hold to have kids anymore. Plus the fact that all those aunts, why don't they let the baby go when the mother is next to the baby and the kid wants to go their mum? They are not good babysitters in my opinion.
Tina from skull head is also low ranking. But she never gives her babies to anyone. She’s too protective about her baby. There’s are so many low ranking monkey but never seen giving upon to higher ranking babysitter.
Arroz to your statement of the babies, Yes! the mothers use them as food trophies, not just here but everywhere. Take the baby away and all you have is another monkey begging for food. Even you reward them when they have a baby.
Gypsy is always callous & selfish to her babies. No wonder the three female monkeys all want to aunt Cody, who was clearly agitated by being passed around. 😢
Poor Kody wants desperately to go to mom @3:14, but mom is too busy getting her hair done. I guess Gypsy is not a stay -at -home mom, but a busy career woman.
Gypsy with her 👅 hanging out is so funny,I think it's a little of both it helps Gypsy out but then helps them with needing the touch of a baby and taking care of a baby that's what i think and yes Kody is so precious
Wouldn't kody be crying if he was hungry ? and if he was don't you think Arroz that gypsy instinct would kick in ? he isn't latched on to his mom 24/7 like other babies also with so much food around these days i say kody is getting milk he doesn't look agitated or upset that he isn't with mom all the time, i know i slated gypsy in the past but i can see where she is coming from she's low ranking and trying to her best my uptake on it. stay safe Arroz
@Gloria Brawldy I think she’s in pain. And if she’s angry, it may be because she has no control over who takes her baby. She’s so low ranking. Breaks my heart.
There's something very wrong with Gypsy. I haven't seen her pass off a baby this young yet. I could be wrong, maybe she has but this is the youngest one I've seen get passed off. A baby that young should be able to drink all the milk it wants. Any mother might need a little break on her nipples but that's not what this is about. Gypsy is all about the bare minimum she can get away with as far as motherhood goes. The other thing is Cody doesn't get to even walk 6 inches away while with a sitter. They grab a leg anytime he wants to check something out. So the poor little guy is tied right down to the sitter but has to watch it mother a few steps away but can't go to her and the babysitter can't feed him. I wouldn't want anything bad to happen to Gypsy while Cody is so young but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if she disappeared between babies. I just wonder why can't she be one of the ones caught and sterilized? Seems to unfair for all the babies Gypsy will have in the present and future.
@@jessicawaters8899 What did I say about rank? Are you saying the sitters out rank her? When the babies are that small rank means nothing. She doesn't HAVE to give the baby to the sitter when it's that young. You seem quick to tell me about what I should know or what I should learn. Where'd you get your degree in how Gypsy acts towards her babies and how she very different from most other mothers? And furthermore, I didn't as your option. I was stating mine. If you disagree, that's fine, inform me of the facts. That's not what you're doing with your response. And by the way, your response really doesn't make much sense. Maybe when it comes to me you should mind your own damn business.
Yes, Nora is the Alpha of her group and she has neglected and/or mistreated 2 of her daughters in recent years. Cessa was the baby before Nick and of course, her latest baby which didn’t live long enough to be named.
Can anybody explain about buddy being back( glad he is back) will he be most likely run off again. Because of the breeding or spawning. It seems to me they know what happens when inbreeding takes place. I am confused will he be run off does anybody know how this works . Now that he’s back . At what agewill he try to mate . What is a general age
General age for males to leave their natal troop is around 5 years but it's differ from places. There's example of male rhesus macaques that stay or come back to their natal troop and some of them leave later on and some stay forever. Often this is males who's mother's belong to the alphas matrilineal. Mother's and sisters usually don't mate with their sons or brothers but it happens. I have no idea what will happen to Buddy. His mum is higher ranking but I see that he does stay in the periphery most of the time and that's a smart move. He may need an extra year in the troop because he's only 3. (AM's timeline) He'll be 4 the 1th of September. He might be ousted soon but I don't think so. Could be wrong though. 🤓🏴☠️🇸🇪
M L Buddy was born a month after Dopey in 2016. He just turned 4. But you are right. He stays on the periphery and probably because Taggy doesn’t see it or he doesn’t mind it.
Kathie Kossor thank you . Boy I got to really pay attention here. Monkeys have tradition or a hierarchy some people say politics or code they live by. Never knew this until this year when really started watching monkey troops this really wild. Damn interesting at times thanks
Bless little Kody, he must be thinking something like hey Rudy, I think you're great and I love you. But, I really need to hit the milk bar. If you let me go I'll come right back!!! 😧 😳 😬
What does Maverick mean? And what happened with Grannys eye? I already love Kody!😍 I hope he will do well with this special arrangement between his mum and all this aunts!🍀 I think the aunts and Gypsy are profiting from this arrangement. But if this is the best for the babys,too - I am not sure🤷🏽♀️ maybe depends on personality of the little one.
judith elpers It’s not best for baby. But I don’t think Gypsy has a choice due to her rank. Even when Kody is desperately trying to get back to his Mom. Rudy won’t let him go. That’s not right.
I am convinced that gypsy doesn't willingly give her babies up to her sisters. I think that with them outranking her that she is bullied out her babies so that they can reap the rewards of goodies a newborn brings to them. I think gypsy would not let them go if it were up to her.
It makes me so mad to watch Gypsy neglect her babies.. The aunts have gotten so used to Gypsy not wanting to care for her babies that they wait by Gypsy basically right after she gives birth which has made it easier for Gypsy to stop caring for her babies earlier on.. I know the aunts mean well but Kody needs and wants his mum 💔 Like wtf Gypsy acts like she’s too busy sitting there while being groomed to realize her baby wants to be with her..makes me so mad 😡
Ooh Lala Lauren Gypsy want’s them but the Aunts keep taking them. She’s too low ranking to get them back unfortunately. The babysitter (this time Rudy) won’t let the baby go back to her. Gypsy is sitting close by because she wants her baby.
All you have to do is move to the silver springs fla area and you will have them in your back yard they live in the wild there have for decades the last couple years they seem to end up at people yards shopping center s (because of human construction) they seem to be troops of 50 monkeys and less . Goggle Ocala fla silver springs monkey I live about an hour away from there believe me they are wild there
C Bea rhesus macaques goggle silver springs or Ocala fla there’s a bunch of stuff on them. Back in late 50 s or 60 s they used to film a show called Tarzan of the jungle . They used monkey in this show . I don’t know if they were let go or escaped but they are there I have seen them over the year every now and them there’s a guy jack or something who gives boat tours down the river to see them goggle them it’s crazy to see them
C Bea hey one more quick one goggle wild monkeys fort laurdale I have not personally seen them but seen videos down from the airport they are in a sort of industrial area i did recognized the area(I am truck driver) I can t remember what kind they are
We want to see things how they :) Besides, this wasn't very sad. Kody has a whole group who love him and are ready to take care at any moment. He's exploring too which is the start to learning. It may not be exactly how the other babies start but for being Gypsy's kid this day wasn't half bad. ♡ I hope it made you smile.
