To make it short, I've found my cymbal home at Istanbul Agop. I have never felt any urge for vintage cymbals, because those Agops that I have carefully chosen thru two decades, make me really happy. But everyone has their own path to follow, perfectly understandable 👍👍
Tim I have to agree with you here. A question: I read somewhere that an older cymbal can be "played out". By this I mean it's tones have degraded over time and with use. I have a couple of twenty year old cymbals and they still sound like the first day I bought them. Is it true an older cymbal can be played out? Thanks.
That’s a great question. I think it has more to do with the player than the cymbal. I know that I can get tired of a cymbal over time and not use it as much, but to another drummer it sounds fantastic. Also, cymbals do mature with age and patina as well.
I usually crack them and then notice they sound different- but I have a ride from the seventies that I love. It still sounds like it did in the nineties when I got my hands on it
Totally not a drummer, but a biologist here: has anybody ever tried resurfacing their cymbals with an acid wash? I’m talking Brasso, barkeepers friend, etc. Years and years of oxidation on a surface like that (I’m guessing basic brass some other oxidizable metal) has to impact its resonance and vibration. It sounds like sacrilege but you can boil guitar strings to remove surface oils and they play much closer to brand new.
i'm almost positive that hitting something with a stick a few thousand times will leave an impact over time. cymbals are pretty thin and constant use surely will keyhole the bell hole or warp / stretch the cymbal.
@@slipknot73745 pretty sure abrasive cleaners are just gonna sand off the lathe grooing. cymbals are pretty thin and i think if you remove a little bit of metal the impact might be quite noticable
U nailed 2/3 points for me. I’m obsessed 70s, 80s & 90s Sonor phonic, sigs, HL, etc. stands, box stands. I don’t buy anything else. And yes, the same reasons to hate vintage stands applies, too. As they are expensive, hard to find & don’t trust shipping. Ks are great cymbals, but nothing goes better with my vintage luddys & Sonors like my PAiSTe cymbals. Great video. I may as well subscribe bc I get you. Thanks!
I have vintage Ludwig and vintage tama kits and agree that paiste cymbals sound best with my kits. Still have a set of zildjian A I use for some things but I have several sets of paiste for different situations. I have sets of 2002, signature, traditional and I love my master series dark and extra dry rides!
I wish I had bought more old Ks when they were within the realm of affordability. Pre-eBay, when the Internet was something only tech geeks and some college students knew about, you could get a ride for $300-400 from a dealer, less if you find one at a pawn shop. The center hole thing is annoying. I had my old A hats enlarged, but I won't alter my old K. Luckily, it fits on my stand, although just barely. It's not a vintage stand, but it's from the 80s, when plastic sleeves were not yet ubiquitous, and it came with a piece of vinyl tubing instead. I am absolutely paranoid about my old K leaving the house - it never leaves my sight, and it's not even a very good one. Others I know who have/had old Ks have gotten some or all of them stolen.
I remember going to Drummers world in the mid 90’s. They always had a bunch at the ridiculous price of $500-$800. I’ve reamed a few in my lifetime. It’s actually not a crazy process, but it does take a bit of nerve. Thanks for your comment!
@@TimMetz Wow, that's pretty high for the mid 90s. Although maybe 22" rides were a lot more expensive. Vintage Drum Center was selling 20" rides for $375 around that time. I got mine from a previous owner for $200. I thought it sounded great for years, until one day I noticed a hum. Then I couldn't un-hear it. I had to put some gaff tape on it to subdue it. My reluctance to alter it is more because I still have that stupid collector's mentality about it, and I'm afraid it will lower its value.
@@jc3drums916 Yeah, it was pretty high, but they were getting it. I hear you about the collector's mentality. It's hard when you have a piece of gear that gets that valuable.
My 19.25" K Istanbul has a small hole but I have an old Tama stand stand that works well. It's not the greatest sounding cymbal ever but it has personality. Spizzochino would have loved it.
Sounds like those are the equivalent of a Gibson guitar. Not really made and/or ideal for the working musician. I do have a cool ?1990s? Zildjian K Series 20" "Heavy Ride" in great shape, got it used in NOV 2004. I sort of fall in and out of love with it, on a given day but I have come to realize it's a cool piece in my collection, another flavor in the mix. Sometimes it just sounds perfect and amazing. A lot of Zildjians do develop an annoying hum or under wash. I have to grab and mute them at the end of a song, or they just keep humming along, ha.
This is gonna sound stupid, but here goes. I have a 20 inch Zildjian ride and a 16 inch Zildjian crash with 14 inch Zildjian hats. I do not know what "series" they might be. Got them all around 1978. That's all I work with. Very heavy cymbals. Still use them today. Sound as good as ever. So I am not a gear guy - just use what I got.
For me the best solution is just not to have them. Then you reduce the stress and worry to a minimum. There are plenty of modern cymbals that sound pretty damn good. I play mainly Bosphorus and Istanbul and they're great. But if they got damaged I'd be annoyed but not devastated. Why own something that you won't play on gigs? It's like owning a Ferrari but keeping it garaged for fear of scratching it.
@@Avedis_ Yeah ok... I guess I was referring to myself and what I would rather do. I have some vintage Ludwig's that I gig with but only when I know they will be safe. The Ferrari analogy was silly! If I could afford one I could also afford the insurance so I would be driving it around like mad 😂
You know what I hate about old K’s? Many, if not most of them sound pretty bad… No one ever talks about this, but you could spend $1400+ on a dud easily. It’s not like you can go into any music store and buy one, often times it’s buying one online, going off of weight / shape, maybe a sound file and taking a risk. The cymbals Elvin, Art, Philly, Tony had were hand picked, scouring for the right ones. But they passed on many before finding the one. And age doesn’t always help Old K’s either, they get brittle. If you’re buying one under 18”, I can almost guarantee it’s not what you’re hoping for… If you don’t have a very keen eye/expertise or can hear it in person, be careful. I’ve made a costly mistake on an old K. Mine is way cooler to look at than play on and it’s not a rare dud. I think it’s more rare to find a great one honestly.
Not sure what age is considered vintage here, but I got some great deals on some early to late 70s Paiste rides, giant beat, sound creation, etc, some even almost mint condition. Granted, not Zildjian Ks which I guess have a certain cachet (whether deserved or not ;) ) I've found the best deals have always been local sales (not ebay), sometimes people not so hip to the market value of their wares and just want to get rid of unused stuff / empty attics, etc.
Number 2 the hole. The hole size in the Beverley, Meinl and Krut cymbals I have are 11mm. The hole size in a modern Zildjian I measured is 13mm. My vintage cymbals will fit a Yamaha stand and older (about 22 years old) Pearl stands I have that have the separate replaceable sleeve. This may not be true of all cymbals or stands but the need to ream the holes may not need to be done.
allright, I will paraphrase 3 reasons you hate vintage cymbals: 1. value way much higher (I call it "collector price") 2. bell hole smaller than modern cymbal tilter 3. doubt the safety on freight handling, recklesness of someone else on jamm session or even touching ur cymbals (they are only for playing on by yourself in really really personal moment lets say ur siblings wedding and/or in your own recording kit set)---too much worry about that's really me, that's what happens to me now, especially for number 3 owning vintage drum/cymbals stuff made me so called "too much worry cheap-skate" person 🤣🤣🤣
There are good ones abd bad ones, nothing ti do with the prize or the stamp, not too much wash, sufficient ping definition and the basic frequency spectrum when hitting a strong crash seem most Important to me. SureIy like your sense of humour.
Thanks so much. Have you checked out this video yet? If you skip to the end, I’m playing all of them. My cymbal selection always depends on the gig I’m playing.
At some point in my live, i've to get an old k . . . I can't do much about it. It's kind of the next thing you've to do when you interessted to become an antique dealer or a jazz history nerd, which is almost the same 😂❤
So... you're saying you actually love them so much you're willing to pay a lot of money for them and take good care of them, to the point you avoid traveling with them. Dude, tell me about a misleading video title...
With all the fantastic turkish cymbals either from more premium brands like Istanbul Agop and Bosphorus all the way to cheaper cymbals like Anatolian I would doubt if you couldn't find a cymbal that would fit your style of playing. If you are a collector then I get it but for a gigging drummer a set of Paiste traditionals or Zildjian K Cons is a big investment.
Speaking from my personal experience as an old fart who still has his vintage cymbals that started out purchased new in the 60's, my only bit of advice is to beware of the quality of sound and consistency within models. Quality control was not a "thing" back then. Purchasing them without trying them out first was like rolling dice. You may have gotten lucky and maybe not. I have a fantastic pair of hi hats and a horrible ride cymbal from the same model and year, both considered premium cymbals at the time. Buyer beware! My advice is to buy your cymbals - new or vintage - in person from a trusted source after trying them out. Cymbals have never been a status cymbal for me and I treat them all the same, with care. The sound is the guiding factor.
Old Zildjian Ks are too expensive. I have the old Zildjian A 1950s 22 that costs almost $400, 20 1980s for $100, idk about the 60s crash and hihat. The avedis are less expensive than the Ks. Don’t get me wrong, they’re amazing cymbals but so expensive.
I know you don’t hate them … just look at your drum kit! 🤣😂 The price is the real problem so you better know what you are buying! Tim have you every tried a Spizz cymbal?
😂😂 yeah, you know I love em. Price is certainly a factor. I have! I don’t have any right now and likely never will with the price being crazier than old k’s. Kinda sad I didn’t pull the trigger back in the day.
@@stp8103 the vintage “Spizz” cymbals from the 80s are the real deal, but not the newer ones with the logo that come from China. You have to know what you are looking for when it comes to Spizzachino cymbals. I agree ☝️ 👍🏻
I have the Holy Grail of 24" cymbals - 76 Paiste 2002 Black Label. It is phenomenal, and would never part with it. I think it depends like any other cymbal - some sound good, but others not so much.
