Hey, you want to be a detractor? A troll? You want to be one of those people that just doesn't get it? Want to stir up some drama? Go ahead, do that... but you won't do it here. Get lost. Take that nonsense to some other channel, and don't come back... because no one will ever see your comments on this channel. There's nothing for you here. You're vapor. You don't even exist here. None of my target audience likes you or thinks like you think. So you're gone, and you don't even get a say in it.
Having used high-end balances with wind screens on 3” of granite in a climate controlled room, the constant drift of my budget friendly electronic scale for reloading has been driving me crazy. I double weigh every charge and still can’t get it right. I appreciate quality but have to admire it from afar. I can still learn from user like yourself who are willing to share knowledge rather than monetized promotion. Thanks.
Yep you are correct. I have only been reloading a few months but I noticed problem with powder bounce from the start and it's much worse with ball powder.
Buy once cry once isn't in the cards for everyone, especially with the crazy inflation these days. Im saving for an amp annealer and giraud trimmer. Maybe a Prometheus or auto trickler one day. Till then the chargmaster and frustration are the only things in my future 😅. Ball powder everywhere 🤣
Very, very, Interesting! A couple of questions... do you need to do any kind (or how much) of maintenance on the Prometheus like cleaning, dusting, whatever?... and is it/can it be EASILY damaged? The reason I ask is that if the answers are positive then maybe it might make sense for me to might to pick up a used unit if one becomes available. Thanks again Greg.
I suck up the kernels on the floor of the prometheus periodically and re-lube the lift arm bar and cylinder drag magnet every 5,000 to 10,000 cycles. That's all I've done in the 8'ish years I've had it. It's got some very small delicate parts on it, but generally you don't have to handle any of them with the exception of first time setup. If used correctly, it is not easily damaged. The main thing is making sure that if you aren't using it, you use the transfer bar to lift the knife edges of the balance beam up off the pivot. You'll almost never find a used unit. People don't sell them. Basically ever. Probably 99% of the machines out there can not be legally sold. Only the ones purchased in the last few years can be sold. All the others were leased, rather than bought. Obviously I own mine, and I recommend everyone else buys theirs as well rather than lease it.
I'm just trying to keep my groups within a paper plate at 100 yds. However, since I had the great forsight, of buying a good amount of Bitcoin in the early days when it was way way down, and uncomprsing perserverence of not selling it when I was broke. I think I'll get me one or 3 of these devices. 😁
Have you considered station pressure during the events of fluctuation on the digital scales? I often wondered if that sort of thing would influence the variable zero..?
How funny. I've been struggling with consistency for a while now. I hated that I could never really trust any of my digital scales. I knew from my electronics background how inconsistency could happen, but I chose to believe that brighter minds than myself had figured that out by now, this isn't infant technology after all. I recently switched back to my old balance beam scale, and guess what.... my load consistency suddenly improved. I certainly won't go in debt for this scale, but I now have a new goal in life!!
This is an honest question. Have you ever done a back to back test with something around 55 grains, testing a 55 grain load compared to 55.1 grains? I know that exact has to be better, but is it even noticeable?
Thanks for the testing results. Even with my A&D FX and efforts to shield from air currents this is consistent with my experience. There are many times I find a few kernels on the reloading block that should not be there. No matter how carefully you transfer the cup a few do in fact get away. It was not as impactful with 40 grains of H4350, but more of an issue loading smaller charges of Varget for .223 for sure. That Prometheus is an amazingly well engineered machine for the purpose.
I have one. Purchased it because I wanted consistency, speed, and to spend as little time as possible reloading. Just making consistent rounds with the RCBS Chargemaster took forever. I would spend hours making rounds. The Prometheus is awesome....yes it's expensive but well worth the money. And Brand is a genius! 😊
Until I can afford a Prometheus I try to improve my powder handling on my budget. When I realized how bad my 20 year old digital scale was altering my weighed charges I bought a newer scale and have reduced the error. But the error is still present. Some day..
My A&D scale doesn’t move around like demonstrated here. I do love the Prometheus and will hopefully be able to purchase one someday. The ease of loading directly into the case would be amazing!
This is why I still use my Ohaus beam scales. I have a few electronic scales, but the accuracy of beam scales are better and more reliable. IMO. Great content, I really like the methodical way you come at problems. Thanks for all the knowledge you're providing.
Finally, a voice of reason in a world of madness. Digital scales drift... FACT. I have an RCBS Chargemaster 1500 that I use... to weigh my trickle up charges. Now, I can't afford a Promethius, so I'm constrained to my RCBS beam scale, but I can see it move with the addition of a single kernel of extruded powder. Most people, including my father who originally taught me reloading when I was a kid in 1974, think those digital scales are just fine and trying to convince them otherwise is an exercise in futility. I'm firmly in your court with this rant.
Just experienced all of this on a forum. Its impossible to help some people. And that's ok. That's a few hours a day I just got back. I love your videos mate. I too am an uncompromising precision rifle enthusiast too.
I can understand your frustration with the scales. I very much dislike when I don't have confidence in a precision measuring instrument. It's like when I brew beer, and when measuring the mash temperature, three different thermometers give me three different readings, even after calibration.
What I'd like to see is the actual difference between one or two kernels per powder charge. I understand the difference would be less noticeable in a larger case,that being said if some testing on 223 size cases to prove the difference would be very interesting.
Hey it's all about the moon an sun. A digital scale will be affected by same forces that cause tides. The only way is to use balance scales that are not affected by forces tha cause tides. Nice video.
I talked to Brand last week, nice guy. I’ve been looking at the Prometheus for 3-4 years now and sent my deposit in yesterday. 6-8 month wait time, not a big deal. My only question or thought is the following. Brand is the inventor and he obviously takes pride in customer service and knows the machine inside and out, he takes care of any problems mechanically. What happens when Brand isn’t around, not to be insensitive but it’s a legit concern I would think. It’s a sizable investment and I don’t anticipate issues but if you do have issues and Brand isn’t around then what? It’s just a thought I have, not a criticism.
I think your clarification on your expectations helps me and maybe others understand with out excuses why you may be off-putting or not the norm for most. Proof/facts is the ultimate definer. Goal achieved looking into a Prometheus.
I never considered rogue kernels flying around my reloading table. I'm going to have to watch for that during my next reload. I use an RCBS Uniflow 3 and an RCBS 5-10 balance beam scale. I have an old iPhone camera zoomed at the pointer to see when I'm dead on. I can see the movement of each kernel of H4350 from my trickler. Sometimes I'm just under and adding one kernel gets me too high. Unfortunately Prometheus is beyond what I'm willing to spend for dispensing powder in this hobby.
I lay down a few paper towels where I reload and even with the FX scale system, Area 419 funnel, I still find a few kernels on the paper at the end of the loading session.
Look up the differences between strain gauge scales v force restoration scales. Strain gauge scales prefer to have the powder applied in one swell foop. They are inherently less accurate. Force restoration scales are much more accurate. A strain gauge scale trickles the powder into the pan a bit at a time which is the worst way to use a strain gauge scale. Force restoration scales is what we used in the chem lab. The scales we used were accurate to 1/10,000 of a gram. Unfortunately they are very expensive. I used an RCBS trickler and the re weigh it on another more accurate strain gauge scale accurate to 0.02 grains. Still not as good as a force restoration scale but not nearly as expensive.
Brother....I don't own a Prometheus and sure wish I did. NO ONE could dispute that this is the most comprehensively accurate and best solution for throwing measures. It's just not possible. David Tubb was using one way back in the day and no one could touch his medals.
Copy that Brian... I'd love a Prometheus, it's just not in the cards for me right now. I'll have to live within my means, within the tenth of a grain + scale drift. Just like what I drive is not a Ferrari or a lambo. I'll have to live with my pickup for now.
@primalrights. Brother thank you for the video I just got off the phone with Brand Cole and I am pulling the trigger. Thank you again always great info.
You produce great content you have had me reconsidering reloading practices @ 4:24 to 5:17 experienced this with Rich Sherman of Sherman wildcat cartridges… buyer beware when it comes to his brass and published velocities
Can anyone share what the Prometheus is selling for? Their website doesn’t post pricing. I saw a thread these were $3K back in 2012, so am guessing they are $5-6K+ now.
That powder measuring scale and dispenser it is out of my budget at this point.😢 But I would still like to come out and shoot with you and talk about Jesus.❤😊 After all, He is the complete thought process, I Of our hopes, dreams, and aspirations. I do greatly appreciate and value your opinion research and conclusions. God bless you bunner
My rcbs chargemaster supreme is throwing 2 charges then hanging up on the third. I have hardly used it. I have looked at the Prometheus and think its brilliant and maybe I should be saving for it.
It's also worth noting (at 27:45) you double tap the funnel after dropping the charge. This is something you, I, and anyone else using the Prometheus don't even think about. We do it to ensure the charge isn't hung up in the funnel which can happen more often than I would like. Some of the newer funnel designs have geometry to minimize this fault of powder funnels, and this is an area where the Prometheus could be improved.
Agreed. However, I don't really have that issue with anything but .20cal and under. (.20cal in the video) When dumping the bulk charge, if you just slow up a tiny bit, it reduces bridging significantly. I swapped my factory prometheus funnels with one of those new anti-bridging funnels you mentioned... but because I couldn't see the charge through the funnel, it would be a big mess when they bridged. Despite them being designed to NOT bridge, they still do every once in a while. Then you have a big mess! hehe.
I eliminated drift in my system by using a line conditioner and clamping ferrite chokes on each side of the power cable. I also ensure air pressure is consistent, so no fans or open AC vents and ensure that the system is not located near a door. I also eliminated random kernels from bouncing out of the funnel by upgrading to one that is taller and built with "channels" thereby giving the kernels an easier path down into the case. I have zero experience with the Prometheus but I trust your assessment concerning its consistency
Yeah, those are all good steps when using the digital units. While every step taken can improve the experience... the overall experience is still extremely poor compared to the Prometheus.
adding a dehumidifier in your reloading room that keeps a constant humidity also seemed to make a big difference in the cheaper measures ability to hold zero, just take care not to add moving air into the room. of course we cant even see thousands of a grain on those cheap units so its tough to tell what extent, but it does help with the drifting somewhat.
@@primalrights Greg, both you and Mr. Gonzalez are respected members of the shooting community in my eyes. Like you, I know and respect quality and the value it brings to my workflow. This is why your CPS is crucial to my process. While I do agree that the Prometheus is leagues above any digital scale, I consider it the next level of upgrades given my current level in this hobby. I just upgraded from a Chargemaster replete with the obligatory McDonald's drinking straw. That was a huge victory for me. Lol
@@foonus406 that is very good to know. Thank you. At this point, humidity appears to be a non issue but I will take this into consideration should my system start to float again.
ya when I first started in science, particularly in analytical labs, we didnt' have digital scales. We used a mechanical 'balance' with a magnified view of the alignment indicator. That was my most precise method for chemicals. Yet I had frustration with static and had to take specific precautions. We longed for a ful enclosed hands free device. This isn't new. Just new to you young folk.
Great content. It's hard to explain to folks how much money can be saved if you buy the best gear for your system. Some just want to try things immediately, some fall for advertising hype, others get drawn down the rabbit hole by club members who "have been doing it that way for years", etc. I always encourage competition, so new shooters get exposed to the actual challenges, good gear, and quantifiable degrees of expertise from shooters who are winning aggregates. Keep making great products, keep innovating, and keep these videos coming. The sport needs more reality check content.
Cognitive Dissonance is the term you were describing at the beginning of the video. You nailed it, no mater how much Empirical evidence. You try to present to these people; they just shut down and walk off the cliff.
I load 338LM on it just like I load any other cartridge on it. I swap my trickler plate to large size to accommodate Retumbo, set my bulk charge, primary poise, secondary poise... and go to charging cases. I think the newer RCBS uniflow that's used might not allow for the big stuff though. If memory serves, the new uniflow can only run up to 80 or 90 gr's. Mine has the older uniflow and can run up to 100gr's weight. Your Prometheus from 10yrs ago should do the same.
@@primalrights The Uniflow on my Prometheus maxes out at ~82.5 grains. JR's Promo which I have run beside mine will only go to 79 grains. I think the newer Uniflow III will go to 95 grains, but I don't know if it is used on the latest Prometheus units. The answer is you set it for a 1/2 charge and throw twice to load large cases. The 375 Chey is a good example of a case well outside the range of the Prometheus. It's a great tool for precision reloaders, but it's not a perfect tool. Like everything else you have to understand the nuances in order to maximize it's potential.
@@accuracyinternational7967 Well it's the perfect tool for me! :) Sounds like you purchased yours before mine, as I haven't had mine for 10yrs, more like 8yrs. Mine clearly goes to 110gr's. I think the variance lies in the RCBS units! I did do the double-charge thing you talked about on the cheytac's though! Either way, the large powder volumes like that are least benefitted by the use of the Prometheus anyway. It's the "normal" small case volumes that benefit most.
@@primalrights I certainly agree with the position that large charges benefit less from the advantages of the Prometheus. I have another system that I use for bigger cases. HOWEVER, when it really matters I want to use the Prometheus. Last year for the NF ELR, JR and I loaded 2000 rounds (all of the team ammo) of 300 PRC with ~80.1 grains of N170 and we had to use my machine for all of it as JR's would max out at 79 grains. I do hope this is addressed in the newer units. I will say, as a team we had, by far, our most successful match with that ammunition.
@@accuracyinternational7967 You'll receive no argument from me there! I will ALWAYS use the Prometheus when I care about the result... and I pretty much always care about the result. I use other units for quick short batch testing on instances where the accuracy and precision doesn't matter as much.
i am a new guy, so i didnt understand the first half..but the last part was wicked awesome seeing the eefect of air!! m aut reloader from FA.. does that too and now i know i wasnt imagining it!!! love this!!
The worst part of capitalism is that the cheap shit still takes almost the same raw materials, and probably the same amount of man hours to produce as the good shit. If you factor in the human cost of a talented engineer reverse engineering or designing down to meet a cost there is so much productivity lost to cost cutting for the sake of money it's truly a tragedy. I feel like there has to be a better way, just like capitalism was the better way vs. what existed previously. Maybe one day society will get there.
Relative temperature in the room that will alter the scales , was loading rounds over the course of a few nyts always leaving a charge in the scales whenever i I would look into the loading room ide see if the green light was on or not , funny I found they came true around the same time every nyt when the temperature dropped. In saying this I have no problem zeroing them out becoues the charge weight of the loaded ammo is going to vary the same as it did in the scales, as long as the loaded rounds are some what the same temperature you should be right
