I think saying the Brass manufacturers have no control over the metallurgy of their brass is a stretch. They will have a desired brass alloy they will specify from their supplier, some brass manufacturers may have wider tolerances in composition than others though.
I gave up on finding a manufacturer that produces consistency from lot to lot a long time ago. I now treasure specific lots that have proven their consistency, and from several manufacturers, including Lapua, Nosler, Remington (these cases are at least 30 years old), Winchester, and a few others. I'm past the point in my shooting journey where I need perfection, and stopped throwing money at this stuff a few years ago. I can't even quantify how many thousands of hours I have spent dicking around with brass over the years. I can see the point of just buying and crying once.
I did stumble one additional way to observe brass consistency, using the Aztec mode on your AMP annealer. When I first got my AMP i was struggling to get a reference number to anneal with, almost every piece of fired box brass gave a different reading from the Aztec mode, even though it was the same ammo and company. After annealing a once fired lot of Lapua handloads , I found the Azetec mode to give identical codes for the melting point of all of the tested cases.
I am going to disagree with you on your point (at 23:45) that these brass manufacturers don't have control over their raw material. Any good manufacturer should have in-incoming Q.C. department that should test each shipment they receive for the requirements they need/specify. Therefore, they have the ability to either accept, or reject each incoming shipment. Edit. That is that department's job. To make sure that what engineering specified, is what is received. If it is not, then manufacturing's job will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
What is your opinion of the Peterson brass? I have struggled to get consistent with other brands of brass and recently bought Peterson brass for my 6.5CM and 375BAS (Cheytac Improved). I also use Lapua for my 204 Ruger.
I don't even reload yet. I've never hunted, though I plan to go this year. I don't plan to pursue this degree of precision, maybe ever. But I'm glad I found this channel. Learning about everything that goes into shooting, or everything that can go into it at a high level, is fascinating. Also, in the videos I've seen so far, you've answered many questions I had after watching other firearm and reloading content. Thank you for what you do.
when brass is made by most companies it is made on more than one machine and when finished goes into a large bin . then the bin is dumped and boxed up to be sold . so in one way even the same lot number will have different cases in it from different machines . i compare headstamps to see if the markings are the same . it will shock you checking that . but need a good magnifier to do it right . i even check the depth of the case head on my cases . and find even great brass is sometimes up to two thou different . you are so right about brass . my deer rifle i use what ever brass i have and don't worry about checking . but here in the east 100 yards is long range for a deer . my target loads and varmint loads get everything checked . really comes down to what works for the shooter and the loader . great video !
EXACTLY !!!! - 55 years ago I remember my Father was bitching about brass quality when shooting out to 1250 yards with his 30-06 & 300 WM...all very important indeed, & not remembering on where you stand on clean primer pockets, - I will say - that being equally important right along with everything else for a sum total,.... on another note......"long time ago"......"15 years ago or so".....just made this old-timer laugh,....as it will you, hopefully, in another 25-30 years.....Thanks fer sharing.
Very good Video man ! for me, it's simple : if it doesn't say Lapua on it, I don't buy or shoot it....and I very carefully inspect EVERY ONE of them before loading them the first time, and every time thereafter......OnWard.....
I had bought 100 rds. of assorted brass for my 308.I developed a load and they just kept shooting wild. Then I bought 50rds. of Norma brass used the same load and starting shooting 1/4'' groups, so its best to pay a little more for accuracy.
I am currently using Lake City brass for my AR15. (its primary use is coyote hunting) This rifle is maybe 1 MOA on its best day and Lake city is more than good enough for this rifle. When my 223 barrel arrives for my heavy target bolt gun, Lapua all the way. (alpha munitions doesn't currently make 223 brass)
Great info ! Thanks for sharing this info .As a competitive shooter I have loaded almost nothing but Lapua brass even though I had to fire form cases I just didn’t want to chance switching off from Lapua and having my scores possibly crash .Well after building a 6 BRA and having to experience heavy soot down the case for know reasons than I can understand. I cut necks into the shoulders ,annealed ,tested and tested and I can’t stop the soot .A good friend sent me 5 pieces of new Alpha 6 BRA brass I fire formed to my chamber ,know soot . I had pressure and backed the load down by .04 of a grain compared to Lapua .Alpha is very consistent with accuracy. I just order more today 6 hours before I saw this video. Thanks again for doing what you do to help our community.
Thanks Greg. We appreciate you & your work. Most of my brass is Alpha or Lapua with a sprinkling of Peterson. I probably have in excess of 2.5K pieces of Alpha. I obviously like them, but am puzzled by the neck wall thickness. It is rare for me to measure a piece of Alpha that doesn’t have close or in excess of 1 thou difference in neck wall thickness. I hate when circumstances to cause me to have a chamber neck diameter that is large enough to prevent me from neck turning. I won’t write about all the things that an uneven neck affects. My degree is in technology, but I worked as an engineer during my career. I have a lot of chemistry, physics, microbiology, etc. This causes me to question my measuring techniques & try to better them. I had a decent Mitutoyo ball head micrometer. After my findings I purchased calibration blocks and another ball/anvil head micrometer to ensure the measurements are repeatable. They are. The fact is they are horrible in this criteria that you think is so important. I’ll be happy to send some for you to measure. You don’t own as much as I do without liking Alpha. I try to work around it with the neck turning. Thanks for all you provide us with, God Bless Let me know if you would like some samples from newer virgin Alpha OCD cases.
It sucks when someone you listen to for long periods of time, even enough to know the speaker better than some extended family members, doesn't check their own channel to interact with subscribers with genuine questions about the topic of the video. It causes me to question why they have a channel.
Any company buying raw material from a smelter whether brass,copper,aluminium will receive a certificate of the metallurgical quantities with every batch. Ask me how i know
Now id like to do this but send different brands of for XRF and SEm analysis and then take 1 case and send it off for SEM after each firing (based on recent work events it shouldn't be that expensive ..time consuming yes but expensive...no)
I was the one who presented the question in the previous video about how can you control/adjust seating force other than increasing or decreasing the diameter of the expander mandrel. I understand turning necks to various thickness is one way, but I was coming from the assumption that this was already done and a uniform neck thickness and concentricity had already been achieved. I'd also assumed that the annealing setting had already been established using the AMP. I sacrifice cases in my AMP Annealer and use the setting provided by the device. I don't see how we can accurately determine if another setting is more appropriate or accurate than the device itself. I just don't feel comfortable increasing or decreasing that setting and don't want to expend barrel life to prove out what changes that makes. I'm content accepting what the machine is telling me to use. Given these parameters, I'd like to understand how one can adjust seating force "neck tension" aside from using varied diameter mandrels. I will typically select a mandrel diameter and seat a bullet in an empty (prepared) case, with the AMP press to see what force is achieved before starting a lot of loaded ammo. If the force is too high, I'll go up 0.0005" or 0.001" in mandrel diameter. I'm achieving very consistent force readings over say 100 rounds. Usually around 10-12 lbs. ES. If I have an occasional outlier or two, I'll set those aside for sighters. I set out to achieve seating force in the range of 30-50 lbs. I find the majority of my 300 SAUM cases are hitting in the 42-48 lbs. window. As I stated previously, I have a 300 WSM barrel I've found performs better with higher seating force, around 80 lbs. with 215 grain Berger Hybrids. 6mm and 6.5mm calibers running lower - 30-45 lbs. I follow this process because I've found new brass behaves differently than those having several firings on them. I will test that force with a prepped case each time because I've found I need to adjust the amount I'm expanding necks (more or less) to achieve the desired seating force as the number of firings increases. Let me know if there's a better way of achieving the desired seating force in a way the results are more predictable other than varying mandrel diameter.
I only used Lapua until Alpha was available and Lapua wasn't. Had problems with the .200 dimension with br and bra in beginning, but after loading up charge weight on Alpha the heads finally grew to grip my chambers and stopped getting bolt swipes. It does perform very good now. Alpha was very good at answering my concerns and helpful in suggestions. Bit i still hate to have to fire brass five or six times to get it to perform. I am using a standard reamer for both cartridges that Lapua cases always performed with. Alpha heads are very hard and i feel a little smaller dimension at .200 dimension on head of case. I wish they hadn't change that from what wheeler had tested.
I had to rechamber a barrel cut for Lapua because of case blowback. The new chamber was cut with a Alpha legacy 6mm BRA reamer. So far the performance is nowhere near what I expected. I just received a barrel yesterday chambered by Alex Wheeler for 6mm BRA using Lapua brass. I have never see such beautiful work on a new barrel. I’ll soon be seeing which outperforms the other. My 6 GT shoots with more precision that the Alpha 6 bra.
A lot of the people giving advice in the firearms industry are a part of the tacticool industrial complex and are given you advice because the do or want to partner with the maker of the recommended process, the could have an ego investment because it's what they use, or most likely they have a direct financial incentive to give you that advice. I actually find that worse that than the know nothings that populate every public forum for the express purpose of regurgitation "common wisdom" at you with zero experience themselves or any consideration of your specific needs.
I just bought new Norma Brass. X300 The weight variation over so many cases was only 1.72gn and each batch of 100 had almost exactly same average weight, 103.75, 103.62, 103.7gn.. With nosler 17rem brass had a different aztec code for each hundred.. now with Norma...thinking of just using one as so littke weight variation... flashole deburring presented material..with norma, not so much with nosler. Primer pocket uniform process with 21C adjustable tool is a horror using vernier gauge depth feature...I'll be looking up gizmo to measure this...for future consideration... Very informative...giving new ideas to measure cases Just rediscovered that need to aztec after first firing .. New brass prepping is of interest ..what to do when...I usually 3/4 neck turn unfired brass... Thanks for posting .. Keep up the quality sharing...it's appreciated
In the past 5 or so years I've gotten some new Winchester brass in 7.62x54R, 223 Rem, 25 WSSM and 303 British. There's been a definite downgrade from Win compared to the previous 25 years. The 303 and 54R necks were dented and brass had a tinny sound. The 223 had very erratic primer pockets. I've bought new Win brass since mid 80s by the thousands. Primer pockets were always very consistent. The 25 WSSM had a couple of cracked necks. I'd heard that Winchester is having Privi in Europe making brass for them. I've dealt with a lot of Privi brass in various calibers and it sure seems to me that "rumor" is true. I had a new Privi 54R brass case that was missing the primer pocket, just a hole in the case head. This is disappointing an understatement. Its why I'm buying Starline and Lapua lately.
I have a huge amount of once fired factory Winchester brass. When I compare it to the ADI brass I normally use it's pretty obvious the quality difference.
@@Alan.livingston I'm still using some the Win brass bought from Midway in the mid 80s. They had great prices that beat dinking with USGI brass by far. I don't over stress with overly hot loads. Good quality .223 brass will last for many dozens of reloads. The primer pockets wear out long before the rest of the case.
Great content. The video did as intended. Has me wondering now about brass consistency from lot to lot even though I only use Lapua brass. AMP press looks like a must.
I am not striving for the 1/4" bughole anymore, as I went thru the competitve phase years ago, and discovered there wasn't really any special value to it in the long run, for me, learned a lot from it though, and the knowledge levels and components have changed over the years, especially with the internet and mfg capabilities. I do however like to learn about shooting in general, I have my own OCD to deal with, I guess. I like what you do in your presentations, you and others confirmed a lot of thoughts that occurred to me at times over the years, helped me form some means of communicating it to others, who can hopefully benefit from at least gaining an understanding of it. All up to individual choices after that.
I don't recommend "budget" anything on this channel. Right is right. Best is best. If you don't want to save up for what is the best solution to the problem, then what you're actually wanting me to do is validate your justification to satisfy your need for instant gratification in the short term, while sacrificing performance in the long term. I won't do it. There are plenty of youtube channels that cater to the "works for me" and "good enough for me" crowd.
@@primalrights I appreciate your response! And I see where you are coming from, I am new to reloading, and as someone right out of high school I am slowly moving into more higher end components. Your recommendation of alpha brass has drove me to purchase some for myself, even as a newer reloader the difference in quality is very noticeable! I appreciate you sharing your experience with us though these videos!
Good video. Do you feel if a person started with mediocre brass, that after firings, concentricity work, annealing, etc (all the things we do to brass), it would become good brass?
Generally not. As I said in the video, it's usually a waste of time. The non-uniformity is baked into the brass often times, and we can not fix it by any normal handloading process. It's a herculean effort to try to wrangle bad brass to produce consistent results... when each piece in the batch is not uniform to each other. Case capacity or metallurgy can not be readily altered or uniformed by us when we receive it. It's either good, or bad. Our efforts can make the best of the situation, but it will never shoot as good as a truly good batch of brass.
Oh my dear Lord. I just got a chill up my spine after reading this response. I have alot of new unloaded Nosler brass for two different cals. Please please tell me they will be fine for hunting deer in northern New England where shots over 150 yards are rare. @@primalrights
@@clasvirhodes4969 A deer sized target inside of 150yds... a 1700's era musket would probably give a guy success in that endeavor. So yeah, as long as the brass is functional, I'm sure it'll be fine.
Mr. Dykstra, as always, I appreciate your videos and the knowledge they contain. While I appreciate the consistency of Alpha’s brass, the depth of their product offering is very limited. Lapua is my go to with Norma filling the voids in Lapua line. Thank you for your no compromise approach!
Greg - on resizing, I've heard you say several times that you like to bump .001 so the bolt has a some pressure to it and you can feel if something is wrong. Is this correct? I do the same and definitely feel some friction when closing the bolt - thats the point yes? (I use alpha brass and have an SAC chambered rifle and use SAC modular dies and get very precision and consistent on my sizing). Also I took your recommendation and went down by .001 on my bushings and mandrel in the dies, the AMP press definitely shows better consistency (I was very good before but it made it even better and got rid of some of the outliers). It seems that changing the neck sizing operation also made the sizing more aggressive that I had to use a different shell holder (I use an area419 press and shell holders along with the shims in the die). Is it because I changed the flow of the brass and am pushing more brass back. What was once sizing perfectly to .001 bump now took me back down to the size of new brass which is close to my go gauge.
You might be misunderstanding what I've said just a touch. I generally look for 1.5 to 2 thousandths of shoulder bump. I do not want to feel any resistance on the bolt when closing on a loaded round.
Just bought my first alpha brass in .308, first firings where not good but expected, how many firings on average until that premium brass starts to show on accuracy and consistency?
I dont like hornady brass. In the calibers I load for anyways. Rims bend on factory loads, case neck splits and loose pockets after a second firing. Not worth the price. My favorites from factory anmo are s&b and fiocchi believe it or not. They clean up easy and are never brittle. Ive had good winchester and federal also hornady in certain calibers but inconsistent. Ppu and Remington never had any real problems either just thin sometimes. This isn't including top shelf stuff like robberson or norma, lapua ect. When I buy fresh brass its always starline or robberson.
So let me get this straight, range brass is ok as long as you anneal it. Got it! Thank you so much bro!! You've saved me so much time!!!! Sorry, but after reading some of these comments I had to jump in with something lol. Excellent video. You covered all the bases clearly and concisely👍👍
I am just getting into reloading and I have already figured out how important the brass is in the process. It only makes sense how important it is since it is the only reusable component of the cartridge itself. Thanks for the great content.
May be a little off subject. But if using alpha brass for say a 6.5 creedmoor, do you see a substantional difference between a small vs a large primer? Thank you very much for the years of knowledge that you are bringing to us. And expecially for your Godly words. Thank you.
Magic Johnson once said, to be the best, you gotta learn from the best. Whos best in shooting business, give it or take it? fclass shooters. What they shoot? Burgers, Lapua and temp stable powders (h1000 etc). Alpha is also super good as a lot of prs guys shoots them. These are top 2 brass, im only 3 mins in the video, i know this will be said, has to be. Burgers are most consistent, has the least BC deviation, i believe 0.75% or 1.25%. Then its hornandy, at like 2.75% or 3.25%... cant recall exact numbers. No need to going into like crazy stuff like pointing bullets, and what not. Clean barrel/gun every few hundred, do what i wrote above, and you be above 95% of all shooters, including some prs guys. The stuff i said comes from cortina, i know primal rights are budies did few vids together with erik. So invest in these, and maybe more accurate powder scales. Load a bullet, do first powder charge ladder test to get low sd/es, and then if groups are bad, adjust seating depth, thats it. Thats a simple recipe to be above 95% of all shooters. Please save your time on cleaning brass, bullet pointing, weighting and sorting etc, etc. If you do this, and have quality barrel, good technique, it will shoot 0.3-04 moa or less. To trully get to those 0.2-0.25 moa, then you will need to spend wayyyyy toooo much time with all that other crap, just to drop that moa slightly. Pin this, take a pic, frame it, put above your bed room whatever next to biden, trump, your family tree picture... maybe even replace it :D
