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I thought teddy kgb was poorly acted. Malkovich is overrated imo and didn’t do a good job and had a ridiculous accent in this film. Everyone else was amazing and it was a really good movie
Yeah, there’s actually an interview clip with Matt talking about John’s over-exaggerated accent. John even admitted to Matt that he was a terrible actor.
The director said they put empty racks in front of KGB for the final hand to send the message that he had indeed reloaded a couple times in order to explain Mikey winning 60K
I know right. I speak Russian and have Russian friends, the accent is so bad I assumed Malkovich was just phoning it in for a pay check and did whatever comedy “Russian” accent he could come up with
Just watched this movie for the first time last night. Such a great movie, especially for fans of poker. Its amazing how many big names are in this movie! My favorite scene was with the judge where he talks about how he let down his family by choosing to be a judge instead of a Rabi. Great life lesson on being true to yourself even if everyone else hates your decision. Im a career musician and that scene really spoke to my situation with friends and family thinking Im nuts for pursuing such a career.
4:00 I watched this with the commentary of the writers and Norton. After Mike turns down Petra and she leaves, he throws his glass against a wall. The writers joked that was improvised by Damon because he was pissed at the writers for making him turn down Petra lol
It's easy to forget that regular audiences want a protoganist who isn't too unsympathetic. Mike has spent the whole film gambling recklessly and part of the film cheating innocent people out of their money. Balancing that out by making him faithful to his girlfriend even after she broke up with him is the kind of thing that keeps the less cynical viewers on his side.
I will give you some other info since I played at the Mayfair at that time. The Mayfair is the place it was supposed to be based on. It was told to me that the original story was based off Joey Knish’s character but it was changed to Mike (Matt Damon) as the fictional inspiration for the story. The real guy’s nickname was Joey Bagels (Joey Knish’s character) and he had an ice cream truck route where in the movie, Knish had a truck delivery route.
Bagels died like 4 years ago, he played exactly the same as knish is described in the movie... There was a KGB also in the scene, but he was nothing like portrayed in the movie. Also in nyc clubs the big blind is the dealer heads up..
The actors also came to the Diamond club for the actors to practice playing while getting ready for the film. And Also Joe Bagels was a great guy he is missed by many of us that knew him.
The ace of spades is like a character in the movie. In the first hand where Mike goes bust, the ace they share on the board that gives Mike a full house but gives KGB a better full house…is the ace of spades. At the lodge when they get beat up, the final card on the bottom of the deck that the sheriff shows that proves Worm was base dealing…is the ace of spades. In the final hand, the river card where KGB says that ace could not have helped you, and then goes all in…is the ace of spades. They paid homage to the prettiest card in the deck all throughout the movie.
Norton wouldn't face the humiliation of eating a yernal cake. U did say he did American History X months before😐. Yeah, shower seen not humiliating at all.
I loved the scene where Teddy KGB admits defeat, and tells Grama to back off. Villains with depth and humanity are something Hollywood has too little of.
I agree with your point about movie villains, but the back off was actually not about humility or depth. Teddy called off the move on Mike because allowing a fair-winning player to be assaulted in your club = you won't have a club for much longer. No amount of mob backing will get players in the door if your game is crooked, and Teddy knows that. It appears to be honorable, but Teddy's wave-off is more about self-preservation than anything else.
He beat me, Straight up, Pay him, Pay that man his money Great scene which showed that despite being a feared man with ties to the Russian mob he still had his morals
Pretty much every longtime fan of Rounders knows all of these things. Except the bit about the same model Jeep being driven in another movie 20 years later. That's the kind of tortured and contrived fact that always gets brutally ratioed in IMDB Trivia pages.
Thr check cashing place gives Mike the full 10k. Didn't he have to pay a fee? Well in a deleted scene ( or original script) the professor knows the guy who works at the check cashing place and he makes a call to tell them not to charge Mike.
The explanation for Mike leaving with 60k rather than 40k is Teddy reloaded at some point after Mike called his straight and folded A5. Mike said something to the effect of, “Reload at any time.” to Teddy at some point during the game. It’s assumed Teddy did so.
Came here to say this, It is also why Grama says "Take it back". Because Teddy can reload at any time, but Teddy is smart enough to know that he'd be chasing lost money (Basic poker bank roll principle is always operating with a stop-loss amount)
Additional fun fact. 9 - 8 suited (the cards Mike has during the last hand) are statistically the most likely hand to beat pocket Aces (the cards we can assume KGB has) because KGB confidently says the Ace on the river "couldn't have helped you", giving KGB a set of Aces and the 2nd nuts (a hand only beat by 9 - 8, making a straight)
Well Malkovich needed to do the voice he wasn't going to play it like himself. But the fact Matt was like hey man this is comical shows John was vulnerable. I'm glad they made it work.
Two things I never understood in Rounders. 1. When Worm showed up at the cops game, Mike should have got up and left. 2. Why did Grama get mad when Mike beat Teddy at the end. Mike winning meant he paid Grama back in full
It probably would’ve looked suspicious if a winning player suddenly stopped, just because another ‘stranger’ showed up. He was still loyal to Worm, and didn’t want to leave him stranded. And Grama was sadistic. To him, it was more important to have power and be on the ‘winning’ side. He wanted the chance to beat Mike to a pulp, and establish a reputation of someone to be feared. Here’s the part I didn’t understand, though: Mike took control of the game when he spotted KGB’s ‘tell’ (the Oreos). But then KGB throws them against the wall, and we never see them again. How did Mike keep winning without any more ‘tell’ to spot?
1. I agree he should've left. But Worm actually had an excellent excuse to show up at the game. He miraculously met an insider at the bowling alley who invited him to the game. So no one actually suspected Mike and Worm to know each other. For this reason Mike probably thought it was OK for him to sit and play a little bit more and gave Worm the benefit of the doubt (bad choice) 2. Grama knew Mike was a stable person with a honest character. And he also knew Mike was a very good card player and that he would break his back to pay the debts that he owed. Especially after he noticed that Mike came back alone without Worm. For this reason Grama knew if he had the control over Mike that he would be a very good income source and investment for the future. It pissed him off to see Mike walk away "that easy".
@@TomF18 1. I agree he should've left. But Worm actually had an excellent excuse to show up at the game. He miraculously met an insider at the bowling alley who invited him to the game. So no one actually suspected Mike and Worm to know each other. For this reason Mike probably thought it was OK for him to sit and play a little bit more and gave Worm the benefit of the doubt (bad choice) 2. Grama knew Mike was a stable person with a honest character. And he also knew Mike was a very good card player and that he would break his back to pay the debts that he owed. Especially after he noticed that Mike came back alone without Worm. For this reason Grama knew if he had the control over Mike that he would be a very good income source and investment for the future. It pissed him off to see Mike walk away "that easy".
Teddy KGB's club is based on an actual place (Mayfair club IIRC) that was fairly legendary in the NYC poker scene. Lots and lots of pros came from this game - it's also almost certainly the place where Coppleman (the writer) lost his $750.
Not a poker fact but an interesting bit of movie trivia for this film. Only 1 of the actors in this movie has won an Oscar for his acting. Many would be surprised to find out it's Martin Landau who played the professor. Norton, Damon, and Malkovich have been nominated. Damon has won one for his screenplay in Good Will Hunting.
The final hand was pocket aces for TKGB. It was the hand he had in the first game of the movie AND the movie tells you because TKGB says, "The ace could not have helped you." He knows this because he has pocket aces, which in his mind meant mike could've at best only had a single ace since he had also put him on a draw. Had he hit trips or 2 pair on the flip, TKGB figured Mike would've check-raised. So the deuce and Ace were of no help to mike even if he had the remaining ace or if he was on a straight draw. A situation nearly mimicking the first hand where TKBG's aces over 9's beat mike's 9's over aces. Or at least he thought. TKGB thought this was a rerun of the first game. He wasn't bluffing since he later he freaked out over the reveal. You don't freak like that if you get caught bluffing. Even crybaby Helmuth doesn't shoot off in that situation. His overbetting was likely a way to bait mike into check-raising if he had hit trips on the flop but since he just kept check-calling, he thought his pocket aces were prime. It's heavily praised as an awesome scene but it plays out a little cartoonish. Setting up the gutshot to be like Chan's was a little too obvious.
Another overlooked part is when Mike and Worm head to AC to play “late night, high limit hold em at the Taj, where the sand turns to gold.” Mike buys in for $500, I guess 1,3 is considered high limit 😂
When Damon tells the story of getting knocked out, he mentions that Doyle had told him that you never lose with kings. Which sounds like Doyle was having some fun with Damon when he said that.
@@OneEyedJack01 How was the poker awful? It was the first movie to even attempt to show Texas Hold ‘em, despite that already having been *the* poker game worldwide for decades.
The poker "boom" came in 2003. This was a movie made in 98. The concepts still apply. And if you were following poker from 03-2011ish, you'd see a shit ton of bad poker in real life, even on tv
Rounders is basically why all Americans now play hold’ em. Moneymaker won in ‘03 because he saw Rounders and now everyone plays. Very influential flick!
Just to be that guy - because I was very active in the poker world right at the time you're talking about. Rounders came out in '98. The WPT (read the concept of hole card cameras), I believe, was introduced around 2002 and Moneymaker won in '03. It's these 3 things - in conjunction with watching poker players with hundreds of thousands in cash in front of them on shows like High Stakes Poker - and the blooming 'reality TV' genre that all led to the poker boom. Todd Brunson once remarked, back in like 2001, at a rather high stakes game (IIRC it was 1k2k Stud 8/b) during a particularly intense hand that was a rollercoaster, Todd said something like "I bet people would be interested in watching this on TV.." He was wrong about people being even remotely interested in Stud 8 or better (objectively the best form of poker :) but he was right as rain about people being interested in watching players fight for tons of money.
David Levien was bartender in place called Girasole on upper east side where mafia guys came to play almost every night and he was serving them That is how he got idea for script
The only way the Chan hand makes sense is if it was 300/600 Limit Hold’em; then a five bet is only to 1500. Then again, that makes Knish’s line about “You’d need 50-60 grand to sit in the game” nonsensical, since no one needs 100BB to play Limit poker.
A semi loose 300600 limit u need some serious coin. 4 or 5k a pot u can lose easy . Knich didn't say he needs to put it all on the table he just needs the assess to be able handle the swings
The game with Chan WAS in fact Limit Hold Em. However, there are nevertheless an insane number of mistakes in that scene. You pointed out the ridiculous claim of "you need 50-60 grand to play right in that game", which is made even sillier by the fact that Chan, who's said to have been stomping tourists for a while before Mike shows up, had less than $10k in front of him at the start of that hand. And then his stack mysteriously shifts both up and down in value throughout the hand. lol, Rounders...
Another thing not mentioned, but not that big of a deal, was the "lousy truck route" that Mike delivered he said was in West New York, right across the Hudson River in NJ, but none of the scenes where Mike is driving the truck is filmed in that town, or even any part of NJ
You’re wrong about the 20 thousand. I rewatched it and he clearly says 30 thousand. So if he doubled up it would be 60 thousand. Go rewatch it. You’re wrong
As a avid boxing fan, I knew immediately the fight on the screen was not Mayweather Chavez. That right happened in 2001. The fighter on the TV looks like Ike Quartey but I’m not 100% sure.
The state trooper game was filmed at the Elk's lodge in Hoboken, NJ. After the movie came out I played in a regular game at the same place - the elk's head mounted on the wall that Worm mentions in the movie was still there. Also the custom poker chips they used in that game had a picture of Teddy KGB's face on them. I regret to this day not swiping one.
I love this movie, but the poker is TERRIBLE. The betting makes no sense. Betting $2000 at $400 pots? Calling big overbets on a flush draw? It makes no sense for Mike to move all in on the hand he goes broke with; he's never getting called by worse than what he has. The last hand doesn't make sense either. We never see Teddy's hand, but he probably has 2 pair or a set; meaning that the Ace very much could have helped Mike.
In the hand against Johnny Chan, they are playing Limit holdem based on how they bet. Also no casino would allow a buy in that shallow for a no limit game. It still doesn't make a ton of sense, but its much more plausible than if it were a no limit game.
Phil Hellmuth said the reason he passed up the cameo role was ONLY bcuz filming fell during the WSOP and he needed to put all his focus on the event - bcuz we all know how serious Hellmuth takes that event. Crazy tho. I don't think he realized how big the movie was gonna be at the same time 2:14
I've always loved this movie but the scene with Jackie Chan just never sat right. A player of Mike's caliber would well understand that beating anyone in a single hand is nothing to brag about.
Would love to have seen KGB's final hand as he apparently flopped a set, but...he has already been felted by Mike and knows Mike is not a donkey...what in the heck did KGB put Mike on as he kept checking and calling such large bets? Flop was rainbow so no flush draw. He says "You are on a draw" then states "That ace could not have helped you" so he is ruling out Mike floating on overcards What draw is there on 6-7-10 rainbow? Maybe 4-5? Maybe Teddy flopped top set, put Mike on lower set, and the "draw" talk was to use psychology or something?
Kgb had 9 10 Pause at the right time and you can see the 2 cards he slams on the table face up This could of been any 2 cards though not related to the scene as its never in the script what Kgb has uike the 1st scene where its in the script they both have a full house
@@SL0409 If that is true, then they really wrote a horrible final hand for Teddy Especially with the ace on the turn why in the world would he shove the river as they like to say the only hands that can call you are better hands
I always assumed KGB had AA just like the hand at the beginning of the movie that crushed Mike. It’s why he said you can’t believe what fell when the A hits the river
I saw a podcast where the hosts invited the ORIGINAL writer of Rounders. The dude was a reg at Commerce and the setting was supposed to be in LA. There's a court case about it too.
No, the main focus of the movie is the "Chesterfield Club", which was based exclusively on the Mayfair Club in NYC. The whole movie was inspired by Joey Bagels (the real guy Knish's character was based on), and his exploits at the Mayfair. e.g.: the line "in the poker game of life, women are the rake", spoken by Worm in the movie, is attributed to Joey Bagels.
Jeff Grosso, the writer in question, wasn't the original writer of Rounders. He never had anything to do with Rounders. He wrote a poker film which took place in L.A., whereas Koppelman and Levien wrote a script about poker that took place in NY. Grosso submitted his script to Gotham Entertainment, which had a first-look agreement with Miramax. The lawsuit claiming copyright infringement was dismissed in federal court. He was allowed to proceed with a lawsuit claiming breach of contract in state court in California, but that was also dismissed. This time, in the summary judgement dismissing the claim, the judge said that he hadn't submitted any evidence supporting his claim. He ruled that there was no evidence that the Rounders filmmakers knew of the original source of the idea or any agreement by Gotham to pay Grosso. Pretty much every successful film gets hit with lawsuits like that from people who have written something on a similar topic, and had their scripts rejected by the studio which made the successful movie.
In one of the early trailers you see Worm encounter one of the black guys he was playing cards with right before he gets out. I thinks its the guy he gives the ciggs back to. Its a very quick clip of that scene but I cant seem to find it anywhere. Its not on the vhs or dvd. Its either a flashback or Worm gets surprised that he got out as well. Does anyone remember this?
I used to own the DVD Don’t have it any longer That trailer you are describing was on the DVD and that black guy from the prison plays such a large role in the trailer it’s like an entirely different movie His scenes post-prison all wound up on the cutting room floor
I thought about the 60k too... at the beginning of the scene Damon says "feel free to reload at any time." We can assume KGB lost some big-ish hands and that's how he managed to "double" to 60k instead of40k. 🤔🤷♂
