absolutely loved this video : I am a fanatical reloader and just love the shooting sequences on the range . I can't be the only guy out there, who, when the 3rd shot goes into the same hole, stops breathing LOL ! Well Done, keep it up and thanks for all the hard work and effort that goes into these great shows.
My stomach churns with envy! Just amazing groups, I'm still struggling to get 1" groups! I don't have to hold my breath and wish your last shot in anymore, and you don't caution yourself about messing the groups up on the last shot either! That Kreiger and you, are absolutely the best!
Thanks for making this video, I've been very interested in this information since I picked up my savage mod. 11 in .308. All of my reloads have been 168gr SMK so far. Good stuff. Thanks again.
I’m glad to see you are not the only one who has struggled to find a good shooting combination for your AR10. I settled on nearly the exact recipe that you’ve described in this video. I enjoy your videos very much, thank you for your efforts. Efforts that are over the top beyond what most people old do in developing a load for anything. I’m watching you from Afghanistan while working for the army, I can’t wait to get home and try to duplicate your results.
Yes!!! Another 308 video with great results! I was hoping the velocities would be a little higher but like you said, I think you can exceed 2700 and still save the brass. Going to try these loads in my RRA LAR-8 next time out to the range. Thanks for the great videos!!!
Great video. Johnny my wife has a 308 in a savage lady hunter and it shoots good. And I bought some 168 mk. Last fall and disnt get a chance to shoot any of them and I was going to try eother 4895. Or rl15. And I have 4064 and see others. But I am really glad to see you doing this test rigt up my alley. Thanks Johnny keep up the good work.
Oh I have been waiting patiently so long for this video I’m so happy that you did it Johnny thank you very much love the channel brother I hope all is well and good My friend
Thanks Johnny!! I can not tell you how many times I have referred to this video. I have loaded my Federal brass cases the same as you with IMR4895 (42.8gr), Federal 210M primers (LR) and Sierra 168gr Match King. My results were similar to yours at 100 yards. My rifle is an Aero Precision M5 -LR308 with a Ballistics Advantage 1:10 20 inch barrel. Thanks so much! I have bought so many products based on your reviews, you should get paid by the manufacturers.
Glad to see you load those with the smk and 4895. The match bullets I buy from a local place loads that load at 2600 fps and they shoot amazing from my FA criterion and Remington 700s. Where ever I hold steady and aim they hit.
It could be considered using the same CBTO in both bullets. As you said, SMK 168 grains are 0.030” jump and Hornady is 0.060” jump. The seating depth can really affect the groups.
Lubing inside the neck, Imperial, makes a huge difference as you noted but clean them afterwards. A few years ago I started making a slurry using moly powder mixed with isopropyl or denatured alcohol. Using a O-Tip or pipe cleaner, I paint the inside of each neck. The liquid dries in 30 seconds or so and leaves a very nice coating, very slick!
Gotta love those days where the can’t keep your face on the gun from sweat, the barrel runs about 1200 degrees, and every shot you take looks like you just touched off a damn musket. I want fall year-round.
I cut my teeth on the 308 Winchester back in the 70’s with the M-14. Startled reloading for it in the 80’s with my Savage Model 10 (Law Enforcement) 24 inch barrel. With the Sierra MK and IMR-4895 my best group was with 42.3 Gr’s IMR-4895, Winchester brass & LRP. Right from the IMR Manual
Man I've had a hell of a time in the reloading room today. Just started working on my first .223 loads and everything was going wrong! I don't have a .223 shell holder like I thought I did, but I eventually found a 9mm one which worked fine. Then I had two primers go in sideways (maybe because I'm being stupid and using the wrong shell holder), and then I discovered that my RCBS universal powder funnel's exit hole is too big to use with .223 cases and I spilled a bunch of powder. And after jerry rigging some method of charging the cases, to top it all off I discovered that I'm going to have the same issue seating Hornady 73gr ELDs as you did and my seating die ran out of adjustment. So in three hours I loaded 25 rounds and I'm just glad to see you've got a new video uploaded for me to watch while I try to de-stress lol Edit: I don't think its your house. Everything Hornady in my reloading room is rusting no matter what. All the RCBS and Redding stuff is pristine.
Your not the only one. I've had days like that. Best thing to do is put everything away and go have a beer! I've loaded 380 with a 223 shell holder - if that helps. lol
desertfox2020 , learning as you go makes you a good reloader. Give yourself time to work out the details, don’t expect to plug and play, it’s a process which you will fine tune as practice makes good cartridges.
I've always noticed that Hornady dies are more prone to rust compared to any other brands. The only exception to this is that a lot of stuff made by LE Wilson rusts pretty easily as well. I think both LE Wilson and Hornady are likely to have a higher carbon content than other brands.
Glad to see another AR10 video. The 168 shoots well in mine too. I would love to see the 155 scenar given a chance to redeem itself with 8208. The 155 Hornady BTHP shoots very well in mine with that powder/bullet combination.
A friend once gave me a tip when neck sizing new Lapua brass to first dry tumble it for an hour and then brush the case necks. It made a big difference in the effort required to resize the necks.
I have a Remington 700 XCR Compact Tactical .308 win with a 1/12” twist . I’ve never shot anything over 165 grains ( Hornady SST Superformance and the Federal 165 grain Nosler Partitions ) It does pretty decent, and it also digests the Hornady 155 grain A-Max really well ! I’m just curious how well does the 1/12” twist fair with heavier … say 175 - 178 grain offerings ? Any experience with those ? Or would that require a faster 1/11” - 1/12” twist ?
Hey Johnny... Just to put things in perspective... You still have some of the best content on the planet. Very good video work, interesting content, that is well thought out and explained along the procedure of reloading ammunition. You are a very good shot, and very consistent. You approach loading with wisdom and consideration for your investment, and those who watch your video's... You take time out of your schedule to show people not only what goes into loading ( Many different Calibers as well ), but how they function out of available rifle configurations ( also helpful for those considering a purchase of such weapons )...! Over all there's no one providing this level of information, and experience for the loading / shooting community... As a new re-loader, you have helped me immensely, especially in your thorough dive into the 300 Blackout series... A little side note from a former Sniper, You have talent, and people don't realize the difficulty in shooting more than one group sub M.O.A with the frequency you do...
For some people sub MOA groups are just 2nd nature to them. I have two daughters that can shoot the eye out of a p-dog at 150yds using my 1950"s 22 hornet in prone position and don"t care to go out shooting unless its needed done, and yes its a waist of skill but they have to enjoy the sport and not be forced into it.
Great videos, lots of data for someone like me who is new to deep diving .308 loads. I have a suggestion for your dies and rust. I order silica gel packs from Amazon and I put one in each box with my dies. I think its better than using oil because you don't have worry about contamination. Thank you for making these videos. Hope the suggestion helps.
RUST ISSUE SOLUTION: I highly recommend recommend using the Plano Guide Series 3600 Waterproof Stowaway to store your dies. My reloading stuff is in the garage and my dies we’re beginning to show signs of rust. To protect my dies I purchased one of these waterproof/airtight cases for each die set. I haven’t had any rust issues since.
The oxidation from the annealing process is Cupric Oxide (CuO2) and at a molecular level it is tenacious, readily transfers to other metal substrates, and shows extremely poor lubricity. Tumbling in a medium which will scrub the CuO2 from the neck of the cases will be beneficial to your reloading equipment and to the repeatability of your case sizing.
Just an observation for what it's worth. It seemed to me that every time you had a flyer, it was the first round of the group. This isn't uncommon with gas guns as the bolt doesn't always seat the same when dropped by hand as opposed to the rifle cycling normally. My match experience is with the M-14 and I learned to yank the bolt handle back and release it to charge the first round of of the mag as opposed to using the bolt release. (I know, not as easy on the AR platform) You might try Varget, I had really good luck with it out to 1000 yards with the 168SMK.
i have been using fluid film for a case lube after resising I run them through the ultrasonic cleaner with some dawn dishwashing soap. they come out nice and clean and ready to prime. it might stop the rusting of your equipment as well.
Dude, holy crap your new barrel is definitely a shooter. It would be interesting to see some of your accuracy loads at some long distance shooting out to maybe 600 🎯
I have had good luck with Varget as well. The 168 SMK's shoot amazing but they start to tumble between 600-800 yards so not good for extreme long range shooting.
168 grain bullets were the standard for .308 for years. Still are for across the course but that only gots to 600 yds. When I started competing over 30 years ago I bought a Remington 40X in .308 with, I think, a 24” barrel. When I shot at 1,000 yds. at Camp Perry for the first time there was a note on the target left for me by the guys (I assume they were guys although some of the best shots in the world are gals) who scored my relay that said my rounds were subsonic. It is hard to keep the 168 grain supersonic at 1,000 yds. I haven’t tried it with a 30” barrel. I have shot thousands of .308 rounds since then with the 155 grain Palma load. It worked better at 1,000 yds. and all the shorter ranges. I use a 30” barrel on my Palma and long range guns except one in .284 Winchester.
I'm a huge Varget fan for .308 Win. With my Savage Model 10, I shoot sub 1/2 minute groups consistently and often sub 1/4 minute groups with the Hornady 168 match. I have not had the same success with my DPMS LR308 and Varget.
I found the same results with the SMK vs the Hornady 168 gr. My test gun is a Begara B14 MHR. The SMKs shot consistent sub .5 MOA @100yds (best was .428). The Hornady's best was 1.2 MOA and a lot at >2 MOA. Same loads, brass, gun, and shooter on the same day. Powder was Varget.
I couldn't get the Hornady HPBT to group as well as SMKs, but the AMAX did. I worked up a load that worked well for both. Then I got divorced and..........
Great video. Glad to see it's back to the 308. As far as trigger selection, try a LaRue MBT2. Then once you get comfortable with that 2-2.5lb 2nd stage, switch to a HSNM. For the price, its hard to pass up a MBT2.
What a great video. I like the 308 Ar platform. Im ready to start reloading some new loads now. Whats the benefit from changing to a small base primer? Thanks
Go with the LaRue MBT trigger. Only 80-90 dollars. I have one in my Aero .308 build and love it. I like it better than the $165 Geissele I have in my 5.56 Aero build.
@azureoval I agree. For $80-100 it's a great upgrade vs a stock trigger or even these more $$ 2 stages. But, imo, once he gets use to the lighter weight, toss the LaRue and get a HSNM.
Check out Trigger Tech AR triggers. They are not cheap but I like mine better than my SSA-E. I have a LaRue straight trigger also and for the money is great.
Love your video and thank you. I’ve learned a lot through out the years. Was wondering when you are going to bring your Tikka out again? I have a Tikka t3 and in the process of upgrading the stock to a mdt lite chassi. Any future consideration on doing something like that with your tikka? Again awesome videos.
Hi Johnnny, I love your videos because of their honesty! May I request that when you do development cartridge load verifications for a specific rifle you own (with a rifle scope) that you consider a three shot group with the series best load with iron sights for a comparison (human factor) that many of us choose to shoot with. A fundamentalist side from me, rely more on the marksman than the technology.
SMK is one of those "if it's not broken, don't fix it".... but people try to fix it anyway lol. It's amazing how the 168smk has been undefeated since time lol
save yourself some trouble and use a Lyman M-Die or expander mandrel-type die. Your new lapua brass was already neck sized pretty tight and that expander ball wreaks havoc on brass. (it will stretch your brass about .010-.020 on the pull-out. I've found to get the best results (for semi-auto) using a full-length die small base with the expander ball removed, and then hit it once with a lyman M-die or 21st century shooting expander mandrel. I get very concentric brass and equal neck tension. Neck sizing doesn't size the inside of the case mouth consistently, and really is only good when you neck turn the brass to consistent neck thickness. For bolt guns, I am now using the Lee Collet/Mandrel sizer, followed by a Redding body die afterwards. That Lee die (only lee product I use) is the bomb. It squeezes the necks against a mandrell and removes runout. You should give it a shot buddy.
Awesome work Sir Funny i have been running 168 ELD HDY and got pretty good groups ( for me 0.700 ish best to 1.300 5 Shots at 100m ) I just loaded up a pile of 168 SMKs to see the difference, havent tried yet but will be very interesting after watching your vid. Ps i only loaded last week and haven't tried yet but perfect timing for you vid mate. Keep it up Cheers Rob Lithgow 308 Bolt
Nice groups! Great video! Still sometimes I ask myself if those groups hold up when repeated. e.g. in dryer or colder conditions. Also, would a really good combination (like the 43.0gr with SMK) hold together from a cold bore or in a 10 shot group? Could you re-shoot the best group from this video in the next one?
Just thought i would mention midway has cadwell AR barrel cooler on sale. Its lith ion with usb charging and 3 to 4 hour run time. Made for 15s but would probly work well for the 10s. 15$ and would probly cool down that suppressed rifle fast. Good shooting man.
If bump shots are am issue just hold the trigger back,then after the bolt feeds the next round let the trigger go forward just till you hear/feel the bgh trigger reset.
Interesting that the slightly different nose of the Hdy makes for 30 thou more jump and predictably less accuracy than the same weight Sierra. Good stuff indeed.
