I greatly appreciate your honesty these carburetors are new to me as well, it’s what happens when you’re human we live and learn I’d love to mess with those carbs but when I saw the 700 dollar price tag I almost passed out good luck with the project and I’ll catch you on the next one.
Great vid. Showing all the mistakes is a great lesson for others. One of my favorite sayings is “Learn from others mistakes, you don’t have time to make them all yourself.”. This is a great video for teaching, thank you for your honesty!
I noodle around (practice) guitar while watching your videos and have noticed when your scooter is running its best and at full throttle, it is a near perfect A note... Thats taking scooter "tuning" to a whole new level... As always, very informative video.
Nice. Guess I need to carry a guitar tuner or attach a pitch pipe to my helmet. Do some scales for me. I just complain about not playing fast and then get bored with scales 30 seconds in. lol
@@49ccscoot It sounds like you will have some practice time while waiting for scooter parts... I'm new to the scooter world as of September (05 Stella Fireball and a 21 Buddy 50 for the wife) and I already know the pain of waiting for the UPS man... Happy Holidays
Hey this is GY6 Super 6 doing a good job fair years ago I did have moped Tyler Myers put a 70cc jug kit on it and change carburetor rebuild a cylinder head and had a lot of success I'm back into it makes me feel really young again keep up the good work technology is unreal my goodness have fun and be safe you got my vote Steve from Annapolis
Excellent video breakdown of trenching, carb tuning and several other spot on tips. Your logical, methodical approach is to be applauded.Thank you for raising the bar of excellence on the net.
Man, this video started out so much better than it ended. Friggin sweet vid about tuning a badass Lectron carb on a scooter ends with stripped crankshafts and more leaky cylinders. Jesus.
am i going to bash you for your carb spring error no .a big no .i myself and many others have made similar mistakes over the years :) i,ll been riding 32 years and working on engines for even longer ,i,ve yet to own a car ,and im 49 . big respect for leaving it in .as you could have easily edited it to vanish :) keep up the good work , and regarding the engine issues ,when it rains it pours . but im sure you will sort it out :) merry xmas and a happy new year :) lets hope 2021 is a good year for everyone :) regards from wales.uk
oh my god, i feel you. my zip acting exactly the same everytime i put new stuff on. i think the concept of my scooter of "breaking in" is in literally breaking stuff to havoc. anyway love to see your videos again
i have the same thing .. tried 4 different carbs, stage6 pwk 21 and 24, OKO pwk 26 and now have a Polini Pwk 28 which has NO POWER JET and it does the same, but slightly better... they all do that no matter what settings... from half throttle to full throttle the only difference is the sound, a boggish kinda sound and no difference in power.. mine goes all the way up im sure lol. used to get a rich feel with them on the top end, started sputtering no matter what setting as well.. solved that by changing spark plug from br9es to br9Eeg. I have been told that the thing with the power jet is so you can lean the main jet as much as possible, to gain that maximum lean power... then the power jet just gets into action to help cooling off with a bit of extra juice at wot.. havent tries leaning as much as possible tho ..
Thanks for the comment. The thicker sound changed to more of the throttle position after I got full travel, but still always sounds that way. I don't expect that it's something to be tuned out. Just not something that I'm used to with any of my round slides where they take on a different tone that doesn't seem to be closely related to mixture.
I have been using electrons since late 90s early 2000s on drag bikes they really were different beast back electrons are king everything they say is true i sat a whole lot of time behind a flow bench with mikuni, Kehans,Keansburg, sudco,oko,they do as they claim
Put aviation fuel mixed in with highest octane gas. Start light on adding. I ran it straight on 8hp Briggs/Stratton motor on a 1/2 hp mini bike frame as a teen. I burnt out exhaust and put 12 inch straight pipe that blew flames on gas release. I had to reinforce front forks with welded on metal flat pieces on front/back of fork. It flew down the road! Lol In pasturetest ride my 6’3” tall father was drug behind scooter until he finally let go of gas/handlebars. I kept tools in pocket as when it backfired, it blew carburetor loose from engine…. Lol. Eventually,I blew the motor and it froze up. If I changed oil before each ride, readjusted carburetor. It may have lasted. This was 1980…. Hahaha.
Nice video as always! I am feeling your pain brother.. All to familiar feeling.. Anyway I hope your tear down goes well and I look forward to seeing your next update!!
Woow bret got a lectron and the video dropped before Christmas this is amazing timing I was begging to think you abandoned the tpr project!!! After watching this video in it’s entirety I’m frustrated for you with this carburetor thought it would be wonderful with amazing reviews and performance. To be honest seems like standard jetted carburetor will be sufficient with less headaches . I wanted to purchase smart or lectron carburetors because of all the hype of no jets no tuning but after seeing this I think I’ll stick with the standard carburetors especially for the price !!!! Lectron don’t believe the hype !!!!!
Ps greatly appreciate your videos honestly and effort in making them !!! I’ve been with you every step of the way from your first purchase of the tpr cylinder to the mvt ignition to the water pump and al the variations and modifications, absolute gift to the scooter community we greatly appreciate you ! Not all heroes wear capes ! Some ride scooters 🛵💨😎
I'll be honest on the dirtbike carbs they have came along way I always used there carbs on drag race applications they were known for two things being able to idle and deliver a great amount of fuel no in-between with that being said its been along time since I used or tuned a carb based bike
I really hope that carburetor is worth it it doesn't look like it's going to last long with that rubber intake is going to collapse on you after a. Of time with the heat
I don't understand why you always have problems with the cylinder head gasket. We have built more than 20 tpr86cc minarelli engines for customers and only had the problem once. the tightening torque for aluminum cylinders is 11-12 Nm. We use always 11Nm. An m7x1 screw with 12Nm has a contact pressure of around 1070kN. The engine has 4, thats over 4tons COLD the cylinder settles into the seal after a few lambs cold and warm, that is normal and wanted that way. but never tighten the aluminum cylinder afterwards! the aluminum expands further than the steel when heated. which increases the contact pressure of the screw when it is warm!
So, when you initially torque the bolts too high, when the engine cools down there is less pressure and the bolts actually come loose in a sense (because the aluminum is now deformed )? Is that correct ?
I always re-torque. I used to do a full re-torque, which was loosening and then tightening to spec because there is a certain amount of torque required to move that may not be overcome otherwise. Then I found that I had more sealing issues that way, because I was relieving some tension and now I do a heat cycle and then just go over the nuts once cooled without loosening. They pretty much always turn at that point. Torque is 12.5Nm, as suggested within TPR's specs. I have had bolts end up literally hand tight if never re-torqued. It depends a lot on what type of sealing is used. Some materials settle way too much. I've re-torqued stuff coming from the days of my turbo Mustang and piston port engines and proceeding into scooter stuff. When I had my Mustang, I had issues with head gaskets. The dyno tuner was very well known in that world and set many records. He recommended re-torqueing if I wasn't already. He set me up with a couple of other well known pros. They shared the same opinion. My father used to run a dyno shop and built some drag cars. Same thing. The guys that I hung out with from the track, always re-torqued. Granted, it is not the same for every situation and setup. BTW, when I say heat cycle I do not mean running on the stand. I get the engine to operating temp under load. It must be cool before I touch it with a torque wrench again. I won't swear that I'm correct. Everyone has things to learn and anyone that doesn't think so is not someone that I will pay any attention to.
@@49ccscoot Sorry mad englich ( google translade) yes i also know cars where loosening and re-tightening the cylinder head screws is prescribed! but this is a very solid aluminum cylinder head compared to a 86cc head with about 10mm material! And the point is the manufacturer says this is how it is done. And of course you can tighten the screws in a car like 10-20%more. you can also do that with your roller enginer then instead of 11NM you have 12.1Nm or 13.2Nm. in a car, 100Nm becomes 110 or 120Nm. This is not a problem. But this is not what you want with aluminum roller cylinders! You have a 0.5mm foot seal when you tighten the cylinder, which after 24 hours or 1-2 times warming up has shrunk to 0.4mm. That makes about 8-9Nm out of 11Nm. and 8-9Nm is 900KG per screw !! by 70grad celsiuss does that again well over 16Nm or 1.2tons per screw! when you retighten your cylinder screws when the cylinder has set. then you have about 0.1mm away on the cylinder screw and thus over tighten the cylinder! by 70 degrees cesius you don't have 16nm but far above 20Nm
@@BrainHurricanes wtf if you tightening the screws to high, than the casket sattles more down. but thats in a 0.05-0,1mm, so you screwe is not standast 100nm you made 120nm after the sattle down the torque is still over 100Nm its more! Standart 100 goes doen to 90-95, your 120 goes down to 110-115nm COLD!!!! Warm is that problem. And the ALU is not geforming!!!!! aluminum expands further than steel at the same temperature!! Your Screw is steel your 70/80/86/88kit is ALU. Check wiki ALU vs Steel thermal expantion
@@49ccscoot wenn your head is noe damiged, give me a faver with the new head. head new, all casked´s new and your foot casked, too. than go with 11Nm and do not re-torque at all!!!!
Wow dude maybe you should make your own crankshaft that cheap Chinese steel Japanese or a little better and you got my vote dude I thought I was going through a whole lot everything breaking keep up the good work you got my vote super GY6
Interesting to compare the "extra premium" carburetors- Lectron vs. SmartCarb. Maybe hopefully someone will send you a SmartCarb to test. These things are too expensive for the every day average guy to mess with it seems. But they do have pretty big advantages.
Did You Spray oil On That Plate its might help to lower it down i have got couple plates what are not come down so easy but oil helped a lot and i have seen peoples make surfise clean in lathe
Instead of using filter oil, look into getting an "Outerwear" prefilter cover. They're $15 on Amazon. Stops extremely fine dust particles and is hydrophobic. I have one on my Uni filter on the Zuma bug-eye
@@49ccscoot just when it seems to get better everything starts to break today broke my engine case between the vario and clutch because i forgot to put in 1 cvt cover bolt but oh wel thats how it goes somethimes i gues . it sucks that the cranck is already broken and that after a big expense on a lectron but keep up the great work love the videos .
I don't think the problem with the crankshaft at the end is caused by the nut not being tight. A friend of mine with a brand new tpr 86 kit, had the same problem with the Top performance crankshaft, and he changed it 2 times, but it kept happening (with the complete over range malossi kit). So my conclusion is that top performance is producing faulty crankshafts. Also i've heard from many people the same thing occurred. Maybe you should consider buying another crankshaft from a different brand like 2fast, but it's pricey. Waiting for the next video, greetings from italy!
I’m curious as to why you don’t tune mopeds? They look cooler and are a lot more versatile when it comes to road and off-road riding. Better handling and easier wheelies. Just curious 🤨
I have 1 moped. It's my project SSR, but it's a 4T. I've been used to scooters and I like them. They also tend to be more plentiful here. Nothing against mopeds.
Hi Brent. Great video. A suggestion. Perhaps mount a camera pointing at the Lectron so you can see if the power jet is actually pulling fuel up from the bowl. 30mm is pretty large so the carb might not be getting sufficient vacuum to pull the fuel up from the float bowl. Its not an issue if it isn't because Lecton can always supply a rod with a taper to suit. Get all the info you can at different throttle openings and lectron can use that to give you a rod better suited for your bike. And Merry Christmas too
I was thinking about trying to film the carb so I could see when fuel moved. Can't say I really thought about it not making it to the power jet. Not sure how well I can get anything aimed there, but I may try it when it's running again. Merry Christmas!
@@49ccscoot Only need to point the camera at the clear pipe to see whats happening. I had a similar issue using a 28mm PWK. Its power jet was using nothing. It was only when I dropped down to a 24mm PWK that it generated enough vacuum to pull the fuel up to the jet.
i've had a 28mm stage6 r/t pwk carb (flat slide nd with a power jet) on a 70cc stage6 sport pro mk2 (aluminum, one piston ring, high revving) when i started tuning it, after some time, i just disconnected the power jet lines, so the power jet stops working, made it easier for me to tune the carb, easier way to tell the mixture it was having, and just changing the main jet and needle positions was easier than playing with it, trying to find the best jet and needle position to work with the power jet (the power jet wasnt adjustable), also, the bigger carb thing, i've had the same thing with my 28mm, that about 3/4 of throttle is the same power like WOT, just that WOT makes more sound, dont know why, but it was the same. Also the thing about the bigger carb is that it really shaved off a lot of seconds from my 0-50mph, with a yasuni c16, that bbk, and the 28mm carb (no work to the transmition) i was making 0-50 in about 6 seconds while with the same setup just a different carb (17.5m dellorto phva), i didnt count time when going 0-50, but it felt a lot slower, thats my experience if it helps also, i used a 360 intake manifold too, a different one tho, i dont think you'll have problems with this one, but my problem with a 360 intake was that when on bumpy roads (gravel, dirt roads) the carb would fall out with the rubber boot out the intake housing, so i made a little bracket which bolts up with the cvt cover and acts something like a washer under one of the carb float screws, altough yours is a different engine and a bit harder to do a bracket from the cvt cover, mine was a piaggio long block also, great vid, thank you
17.5 to 28 is a massive jump! I think with mine the no difference in 3/4 to WOT is telling me that I don't need a carb this big and the 25 was fine, but I want to give it a chance to see what happens if I know the engine is OK and get it in a good state of tune.
Go for the A class parts! Polini or Malossi. Then everything remains intact. See what you have already had to do about the cylinder head. And the broken cylinder. TP just isn't strong enough.
My plan is not to upgrade the TPR with say a better crank... but build something totally different if I can ever afford it and things are in stock. I just need this thing to stay together so I can at least find out what happens when the Lectron is in tune.
I need a wideband O2 sensor, well could use one to get it going properly, some reason I feel it's a bit lean up top end even if it will turn over 10k, it seems to be a area around 80% throttle, EFI would be nice, but $$$, I never thought it would be such a headache, I tried a 90° tube, about 12" total, with velocity stack on the end, it would only idle, no throttle, I'm guessing it leaned it out, I would like to use that with a filter, to get cooler air, I have also had issues with the seat bucket hitting the carb, breaking intakes, I cut clearance, but I'm thinking my issues could be with carb angle, I think it's the wrong bucket, it's not the original seat or bucket I guess, I kinda got s.k.roued on the deal, it supposed to been a running scoot when I paid for it, gave the guy cash, and he was gone, (from his house!) He left me there to load it up, he was in a rush, I should known, I had to rebuild the top end, it had no compression, so I big bored it! But I have another scoot I'm getting, and another engine, I'm building one maybe a stroker, with my 52mm bbk, big valve head, for 95cc, either use it in the scooter I ride now, or a 150in it, or the other one, the dependability of these china scoots, I need two! Haha, so one will hopefully be ridable! I'm hoping the 86-95cc will run about the same as a stock 150cc, I wish they made adjustable jets!! Haha,,
I'm sorry things went the way they did. I wonder if--instead of using a plain spacer behind the variator ramp plate--a splined section could be either cut from an old ramp plate, or a kickstart spline. Then the splined washer could be tack-welded to a ramp plate, away from the edges, so that it doesn't affect the temper. That way, there will be a longer spline contact. No RC-1 build for you? : )
It was tempting. ScooterTuning carries Lectron, and I do appreciate that they give me a break on parts. Price didn't really influence this decision, as I still paid a small fortune for the Lectron. As it turns out, my experience with the Lectron hasn't exactly been great publicity though.
I think you did everything very methodically and as best you could with the Lectron Carb and for the price of the Carb a little more information should have been provided which would have helped significantly.
I believe you made a non intentional mistake, and I am referring to the metering rod explanation. Their both metering rod’s, the lectrons design is superior and easy to adjust.
Essentially they are both metering rods in that they are rods that meter fuel. However, anyone that has been tuning more traditional motorcycle carburetors for a while is likely to refer to what is in a standard carburetor as a needle; which is generally short for jet needle, working in conjunction with the needle jet. You can find these terms in things like DellOrto's own carburetor publications.
The carburetor looks really Snappy but they got to go back to the drawing board you're going to have trouble with that once it heats up cools off heats up cools off you can have nothing but vacuum leaks it's going to run lean on you be very careful far as I'm concerned put a good old-fashioned Mikuni carburetor on their be done with it
Poping and pinging is to lean, bogging is to rich. On full throttle the pilot jet is not used only the main jet. Check spark plugs, if to rich unburn fuel, to lean whitish color, good is dry and light brown.
🤣🤣🤣 btw i think that dell'ortos are easyier to tune or maybe as an italian, i usually dealt with dell'orto or Polini CP carbs. For a tpr86 i would definitely go for a 28 VHST. cheers and thanks for the nice content!
If you don’t think it’s tension in the cable you will never get it right. You can prove this by pulling on the slack cable on top of the carb. There will not be tension in the carb slide. Boom 🤯
I was going between the lectron and smart carb.. I'm not sure if there is much difference between them. Same designer. Ended up with the smart carb basically because I could get the 28mm for my big racing 88 build. I'm sure 30 would have worked great too but I like to stay on the small side for velocity.
Hope it goes better than my experience. Being a little smaller may help. I'd like to see if the SmartCarb works different, but I don't have much desire to buy another ultra-expensive carb after this experience.
I have no desire to. Carb tuning is one of my least favorite parts of this hobby. Most of the time a jet and some screw turns and maybe a needle clip adjustment and you're off. Sometimes they're difficult and can't seem to be tuned with any reasonable amount of effort. The Lectron took that to a level that I had never seen before.
To be honest a 25mm carb sounds about right for your 86cc engine, I think that the 30mm is not going to make a big difference on your setup (I hope you prove me wrong). For example I'm running a 30mm flat slide on my 125 cc setup. i also looked at the Lectron carb a long time ago but the price tag scared me away, so thanks for trying it out and sharing it with us.
I brought up the idea of using a Lectron a while back on the Forum. When I wrote it apparently they were all too big, even the KX65s. I’m glad it all came full circle!
Really good video. But i think its not right rollers in the cv. Seems and sounds That it will moore on top end. But just cant do it. Just a bunch of rpm to NO good.
Great channel; love to watch it. I can read about 13400/min (is this value really true?) at 73mph. I am not familiar with scooters, so in my opinion this level of rpm is too high in relation to the speed. On the other hand, the scooter should accelerate like a rocket with this short ratio. But this does not match the 8 seconds that are necessary to reach 50mph. I am far away from offending you (great videos!!), but I assume the engine still lacks torque.
Thanks. I've got a whole video about speed. Short answer is 300lb rider that can't really tuck down low. It depends on the exact CVT and belt setup. Sometimes it's 14,000RPM at that speed or won't even get there for revs. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-At6Q1i5TcMs.html
I wonder if you're getting binding where the cable is exiting the shortened tube. It looked like it was taking a fairly severe angle as it entered the carburetor and it may be dragging along the edge of the cable tube
It's possible, but nothing is wearing there so far. I could use a bend that isn't so sharp, but it would ruin my storage area. Not saying that it's not at all due to my setup, but my understanding is that it's a known issue that stiffer springs are needed with these sometimes. They sell them on their site. Costs $25 to get a medium and hard with shipping. Seems like an extra spring in a $450-500 carb kit wouldn't make that much difference, but I guess if you can get suckers like me to pay you for extra springs then it makes business sense.
Brent i have had an issue with the slider not returning polished up slider then idle came back. Crankshalf bolt has undone self little to cause this my rollers jammed to caused this!
I was thinking about polishing the slide, but didn't want to alter anything. I may give it a very light polish if a stiffer spring doesn't solve it (already have them on the way from Lectron).
I have a 36mm Lectron on one of my KTM 200s and a 30mm on my other 200 They were set up for the bikes, but I still needed to do a full turn out as there was a ton of spooge out of the pipe. Quite likely due to my mainly slow, technical riding. I've never had or heard of others with the sticking slide issue. Perhaps you received a faulty carb?
I don’t like how those manifold make your carb bounce around I made a metal piece that screwed into old stock airbox screw and propped up the carb and kept it from bouncing
Ordred a 290mm and a 320 mm rear shock-absorber at aliexpress,Bestow Motorcycle Parts Store.Original springwich is shortest avaible,330mm makes it difficult to have feets on ground using whole seat.F1 motorcycle are lower.Necessary for snow\ice or stunt sliding.Also cant get rid,of metal knocking in my 300$ spare engine.Possible casings are mm smaller than original,and crank touches cylinder skirt.Naraku crank longer depth,a mm,and touches the valve,on original,used 2 gaskets.
If you corner aggressively, be careful if you only lower the rear. Because of the weight distribution of scooters, already being rear biased, it can take even more of the weight off of the front. That may make degrade handling. Could also be bad for braking. Just be careful at first. Maybe it won't make much difference. I prefer to raise the rear a little. I'm 6ft2in tall and I can't flat foot on both sides simultaneously on this scooter without moving on the seat. I've got videos up about piston to valve clearance and piston notching if you need any help there. Info : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oZghWIpqquc.html Clay Check : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4_ZdcAE67L0.html Dial Indicator Check : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sLe6-AgbtlA.html Notching : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Jpk2pKASjBE.html
@@49ccscoot Lower in front,forward bent onF1.But its so close to original.Its also very bad turns original.As F1 are build for "ice,snow,mud" in a way,worlds worst conditions.The v-clic small wheel,high handle,EVERYTING is wrong.99% like Alpine-skiing,and 0% chance to move without feets firmly attached.Possible could go wrong with low steering on snow,to heavy force.IRC SN26 only wheel in the world.Throw all in garbage,from F1 cycle.I am stupid,you are,0 IQ on moped,lesser iq 1000cc.ALL CLOWN.
@@49ccscoot Battle Field Ver1 youtube channel with F1 cars and 500 CC,max 500."F1 V12 Start engine sound compilation(HONDA,FERRARI,LOTUS,...)" from BurningPiston channel.It is the LOTUS 2:35 minutes in.You see cold engine start,driver FULL-GAS,and takes 10 second before the engine heat ignites the fuel.SMALL NOOZLES,LEAN MIXTURE maximal tuned out."Just as I predicted".As I did yesterday,changing from 43mm to 47mm without touching the carburator.IMPOSSIBLE to start,5 minutes in.
@@49ccscoot I tested 47 and 52.4 mm big bore cylinder.And had from 100-0.60 mm noozzle.And with 0.60mm much engine sound got away.Ordred 0.50-0.66mm,but it may work poor,so I will buy 0.40-0.50 kit from Dellorto on e-bay.This is with the sls-egr 40 cm garden pipe-line.The non-egr blew off in the summer,with 0.64 mm noozle.So its NON of your advices,its TOO MUCH FUEL.Using the 0.25 idle jet from the repair-kit,and a 40 mm idle needle on max lean,from same kit.38 mm original on naraku v2 or v3 carburattor.So I also needs higher 40-50 mm needles to lean the fuel.Sound,it must be silent.EXTREME high exhaust,ignition knocking unburned petrol.Totally silent,and max power without 1 knock.
Just bought a trike 2020 q6 ice bear 150cc 0 miles still breaking the engine you can say. Has alittle than 200 miles. I'm a 300lb guy n that baby handles me sweet!!! Only thing I notice after hours or riding it kinda loses power. Any advice on what I need to do to keep up the power hp ect. Or any advice on what I need to modified upgrade?? Any advice will help. I'm definitely looking to add power n be able to keep the power as well. If possible.
Losing power after hours of riding makes me think about heat related things. One common thing that happens is the CVT gets hot and over time the contra spring will fade. That lowers RPM. Sometimes a little, sometimes quite a bit. If you have a tach, pay attention to it as you ride. Make notes so you don't second guess yourself. If you don't have a tach, it is a good tool for troubleshooting things like this and for tuning.
Best option… Buy Honda Hunter 125cc ABS. Then watch “ride with warro” - Aussie. Only take performance upgrades as he added 21 total upgrades total. There is Custom builder that builds a “DREAM” CUSTOM SCOOTER. I WILL POST HIS VIDEO FOR YOU TO SEE HIS PROFESSIONAL WORK. I will buy a bike for him to customize in his country. Let him customize it. I will ship it broke down into several different boxes as “parts”. Then reassemble it here. Cheaper importing, more in shipping unless you ship it via a ship which takes 2 1/2 to 3 months to get it in USA.
