Hey Brent, best quote about jazz and music theory that I've heard---- from Miles Davis, who studied at Juilliard----- "FIRST YOU HAVE TO LEARN ALL THAT STUFF, THEN YOU HAVE TO FORGET IT".
@@Learnjazzstandards Thanks for the reply, Brent. Obviously Miles and Coltrane and all those great musicians were deeply educated in music theory, but they didn't think like music professors. Instead their knowledge was a solid foundation in which to play what they heard in their heads. The same with Louis Armstrong and Charlie Parker, of whom Miles Davis also said "The history of jazz can be said in four words: Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker".
I'm reading Miles' autobiography at the time and he actually quit Juilliard real quick in 1944 because he wouldn't let himself be told by white people how to feel about playing a blues or something. Instead he tried to get involved with Dizzy and Charlie Parker, which he did. As I can see it, he learned most of his stuff by hanging out with guys from the New York Jazz scene at the time and just being an active musician - besides doing heroin and the occasional pimping for the next ten years.
I found this to be a valuable insight: Gary Burton said the player he worked with who had the least theoretical knowledge was Stan Getz. He also said that what Stan DID know was how to spell the chords backward and forward. He then used his ear to weave lines around the chord tones.
@@klapsigaarenbasgitaar1931 it's the actual notes on those chords: Cmaj7 is: C-E-G-B like that. So any "root" note you start with the intervals are 1-3-5-7. Extensions are 9-11-13. Minor chords are 1-flat3rd-5. It's starts to get more complicated after that: flat 7th; flat 9th; sharp 11th. 😎 I just picked up spelling the chords from this video that I'm going to practice on my Tenor 🎷 today.
Something that stuck with me from an interview with Barney Kessel many years ago in Down Beat. He said something like young players are trying to get music from scales, however he was devising scales for his music. Engaging melodies are the goal.
I taught myself before there was any internet, so not very technical - but something that blew my mind when learning blues was that a minor was c major blues, which was also Fur Elise theme. I figured from there I could include these with each other. I had originally, and mistakenly, thought that when chords changed I needed to change the entire scale. So when I fixed that and stuck to a scale with chord progressions, I realized I could start using other scales that fitted with the chords/key if that makes sense. So then I could play anything that fitted with the chords - so once I learned lots of scales - pitch intervals, I could mash em in. What I found was you could then incorporate all kinds of exotic scales like Gypsie etc. I ended up really just looking for notes to avoid.
yes, i teach music lessons and i actually always show my students harmonic minor, natural minor and blues pentatonic at the same time, and have them play over songs and backing tracks experimenting with those scales, switching between them freely, so they can see when and why certain notes may sound better/ worse. i also explain to them chromaticism and that technically any note can be played, (though it may not always sound the best at the time it’s played) but also that they can make mistakes and hit a wrong note but use that concept to instead of stopping or making a big deal out of a mistake, just play a note above or below the “wrong” note to get to a more correct note, and how sometimes that wrong note can then sound good !
Just do a lot, a LOT of listening. When working on theory, you'll start to hear many similarities between artists; the concept will become more familiar to you, therefore it's easy to understand. You'll hear Hank Jones and Bud Powell playing similar ideas, same with Lee Morgan and Kenny Dorham, Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins, Ray Brown and Paul Chambers, etc. Doing a lot of listening with help you to become a better musician
Sure this might help someone who already knew how to play jazz, blues or funk/soul music... but they teach all these scales to every classical musician till we are blue in the face, and most of us are truly terrible at jazz.
Hi Shane I agree ,with you on classical training , I did my o level in music in the 70 s ( completely different to today’s education) And I did harmony for two years ,but it was all theory , never applied , it’s only since lockdown I’m trying to teach myself jazz , it’s so hard , I’m looking for a jazz teacher and hopefully I will be starting in January at 59 years of age ,,,, keeping the grey cells very busy !!!!!
Thank you so much , This is really useful I find that these type of videos really help me to stay focused on what to learn next and not getting overwhelmed and lost in music theory
I'm glad that teachers are getting away from the concept of what scale goes over what chord. Playing arpeggios and connecting arpeggios is a more difficult thing for beginners, but it will create a solid framework for tonal improvisation. And you are right about how much theory you need; not much, but this theory must be learned thoroughly. The classic two semester college course is useful in terms of understanding some of this, especially harmonic function, but you really need to learn basic music theory to the point where it is internalized.
Yep. You hit what I think the most important and universally useful Theory applications in just the first 2 points. More knowledge is helpful but those are the basics for all music
Excellent content!! in addition, a real eye opener to me was "key centres". I guess you are kind of hitting on this when you describe the "chord progressions" knowledge. Figuring out that any Dm7-G7-C^7 that I see is in chart is essentially telling me "You're in C major for the next 4 bars" was really helpful to me. I know that in a pinch I can play simple diatonic lines for the next little while. An example of this was the first time i had to sight read and take an improv over Green Dolphin Street. I quickly found the changing key centres in the B section and was able to skate over the changes and sound passable. (it's not perfect but it's a good road map if you are lost) :)
Chord function, tonic, submediant, and dominant, grouping the I, III, and VI chord as tonics, the II and IV chord as submediants, and the V and VII chords as dominants. This allows for the substitution of these for each other. 😃
Theory is just a must. Even if someone is gifted. You have to develop that, and theory can accelerate that process. I believe CAGED system is very important to know as well. Someone can move afterwards to the 3Notes per Strings system, but understanding and practicing the CADED was very helpful to me. Understanding the fretboard. Then Intervals should not be underestimated……as well as sequences exercises.
At a higher level, I would say bebop scales and enclosures. Then really getting familiar with the sounds and “flavours” of the extended dominant notes (9th, 11th, 13th). I heard a good tip from Jeff Antoniak recently. He suggested playing various chords, and just hitting these extended dominant notes, to really absorb what they sound like, with a view to using those sounds in your solos. Personally, I spent countless hours, many years ago, playing all the modes in all keys, and I now consider that a waste of time. It was a rabbit hole I went down which gave minimal returns.
I think the phrygian dominant scale is pretty helpful to know as well for playing over V chords in minor keys, so the b9 and b13 can be addressed. I think that just chord tones and mixolydian feels too major in a minor ii V i. I often have people play the major parent scales, not even thinking of modes yet, over ii and V in major keys, and then the phrygian dominant over a V chord in a minor key - or just thinking harmonic minor parent scale of the minor tonic that's being targeted. Just joining the convo with my two cents for fun. Great teaching, my friend!
Hi Sound Guitar: great observations. Question: when you say phryg dominant do you mean 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 maj7 8? Or something else? For this I use the term Harmonic minor dominant. Two terms for the same thing, or smith diff? If so(same thing),, do most players prefer this term? Simple Jazz Songwriter, so hip me,pleeeez. Thank you, friendly colleague.🌹🌹😎🌹🌹
Love your teaching youre my teacher and im getting better thanks to you..im going to join inner circle...no more spending time on the wrong studies thank you so much🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾💫💯!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now this makes sense, Thank you, I will spend some hours here. when and if I become proficient with these concepts I will dig deeper into your lesson programs on line. Again thank you so much.
Very nice stuff here! Even though ear is the most important tool while improvising, so that you can transfer your ideas to your instrument in real-time, but to me learning theory was about understanding of what I was already doing, and gave me a new set of tools to expand my harmonic language with.
Recentely i started playing in a school big band, and what i did not excpect was the fact that one must play improvisations there! so i must learn to do this really fast and hense appreciate your video!
It's videos like this that give me some hope. I play multiple instruments. I understand chords, progressions, and guide tones, at least at a rudimentary level. Hell, I even read music and have a better-than-decent sense of relative pitch into the bargain. But when someone trying to explain a tune starts in about how you want to play blahblahblah mode over this measure, and hominahomina mode over the subsequent measure and a half, and how the bridge shifts to [insert indecipherable technobabble here] for three measures and then segues back to blahblahblah mode but with a tonal somethingorother x-point-six-five steps above the previous as an obvious homage to some mutant Coltrane aural acid trip from a 1968 Halloween gig in the attic at ... GAAAAAH. Yeah, my eyes glazed over roughly two masters' theses ago. Surprisingly or not, all of my best music teachers came from jazz backgrounds. I think the problem is that most of my actual public playing has been in various subgenres of rock, pop, and country. I think you've given me a pretty good idea of what I need to do to get from here to ... someplace better, though. Glad I subscribed to this channel. And thank you!
Rally enjoyed this. I think you covered it well. I like the way you covered the concepts. I guess if I had to suggest adding something, I would add the Blues Scale to the list of scales, just from a keeping students interested perspective. Often people don't think they are really playing jazz until they hear themselves play the blues scale!
I believe my comment really reflects your #1 suggestion; CHORDS. However, my revelation of a great jazz sound came recently when I finally discovered the triads above the basic diatonic chords (9, 13 etc. ) and the building block of all the triads. Also discovered that many jazz standard melodies are composed with these and altered chords. They are beautiful and jazzy
I think that, in a chord progression, It Is important to know the chord function, in order to be able to apply the most effective strategy of improvisation. This, of course, implies the knowledge of as many improvisation techniques as you can (scales, arpeggios, guide tones, targeting notes, etc.).
Good video as usual. I would add the pentatonic scale. As someone still very much in the learning phase, I often hear how the use of the pentatonic is very useful (e.g. on a major scale - go to the second tone and use the major pentatonic of that tone. So for a C major you would use Dmaj pent) and other formulas for other chords. But the pentatonic is only five notes and the minor pentatonic is basically the blues scale with the addition of the blue note.
Pentatonics are very useful, especially as you get more advanced. And they can definitely be a useful and easy way for a beginner to sound pretty good pretty quickly. But, they (along with the blues scale) also have a tendency to be a bit of a trap. Beginning players can get comfortable with pentatonic licks and can get very stuck there. Definitely a great tool, just make sure it’s not your *only* tool…or you will sound like you only have one tool. 😁
Whoa! Most of what you said went sailing right over my head! Dominant majors, minors, diminished sevenths, etc? First you say you don't need to know chords or how to form them, but then I heard you go into the depths of how they're built, using jargon I'm not at all familiar with. So, like here's a C major diminished 7th with an upside down minor third! Or maybe it's an A Flat diminished fourth and augmented sixth. Am I getting closer? Of course not....cuz you lost me....8-)
Totally agree that chords should be the primary focus for jazz musicians. If I were teaching jazz, I’d tell the new player to focus on the tritone and the P4/P5 intervals and build outwardly from there. Why? They’re the 3rd and 7th of most chords. I once played in a big dance band, and all I played were 2-note chords using these intervals.
I play bass, all my theory comes back to chord tones and fret board shapes. I spend a lot of time on counting/clapping out rhythms to make sure I am in sync with the percussion. Anything beyond that is just fancy icing for the odd flourish. Aside from that sometimes something just works, and I am sure it can be explained by some theory or another, but me not knowing that doesn't effect how it sounds. My only goal is to make a pleasing sound that works with the other sounds and is in time.
@@klapsigaarenbasgitaar1931 No, at what point in my comment do I mention anything about playing by ear or by sheet music? Most of my bass playing I work out by ear. I also play violin, most of that I do through sight reading.
@@thenobleandmightybeaver4411 Well my question was just to understand you better oh Noble and Mighty Beaver. Because of the thing you wrote about chord tones and fret board shapes, theoretically you could play basslines without using your ears (entirely if you would use a metronome together with the drummer). I know that there are people who get away with that, even playing solo's like that: memorising scales and playing their notes almost at random. And if it works for the music, why not? That's what I meant, I was not referring to playing sheet music.
i think learning, chord tones over the fret board, playing the dorian mixolydian modes, should be a very good beginning, a vidéo with an exercice to learn arpeggios all aver the fret board could be very helpful thanks
Blues. Cross-over for rock/folk players. The 3 chord wonder, I-IV-V , has it place of honor in all popular music. It is ground zero of American popular music.
I had an odd experience trying to jam with a jazz sax player. They didnt seem to improvise at all and only read "dots on the page". I had prepared by listening over and over to playlists of jazz standards, memorizing the forms etc. I asked the guy what jazz he listened to and thought id ask a basic starter "Whats your favorite version of Autumn Leaves?". He didnt really answer and it became apparent he didnt actually listen to any jazz! I left the unsuccesful jam session very confused. As someone relatively new to the genre, it felt like the exact opposite of what i thought jazz was about.
- Chord substitutions and passing chords, ( tritone subs, secondary doms, secondary diminisheds, related 2 chords.....). - tensions and their alterations ( altered scale ). - more chord progressions : ( backdoor and regular 2-5-1s, 1-6-2-5s , cycle of fifths ). - some theory to add colour such as coltrane changes, circle of fifths, bebop scales, modal mixture ( borrowed chords ). - Exploring also different rhytms such as odd time signatures and polyrhythms. - non-functional harmony if you prefer to break the rules and only guide yourself by your ears and sens of music. - Modal, tonal, atonal, 12 tone serialism and free Jazz but also chord scales and sophistication. -Lydian chromatic concept to finish my list. That's all I have, I think... Please guys, give me more to learn if you have as I would love to increase my musical and theoretical palette !
I would also add learning standards/songs, both by ear and lead sheets (preferably by ear, so that you can get better at transcription). It's helped me tremendously in learning different techniques and different licks because you're exercising your listening and composition skills, you're being introduced to new techniques in articulation or breathing (depending on your instrument) and different musicians' styles. AND it makes practice time more fun 😁 100% recommend this
I think the harmonic minor scale should be included as one of the need to know scales. The other scales given don’t really do the “minor sound” justice over a minor tune and there are too many minor tunes in jazz to leave that out. It’s almost like there are only really three scales since the Dorian and Mixolydian scales are just derivatives of the major scale.
How do you keep up with the changes? I find it hard to create melodies and keep track of changes measure by measure. Is that just something that comes when you play with people and not backing tracks? Or is it ear training?
I don't know why people learn modes as if they're separate scales. If you learn 12 major scales and can start and end on any note then you've also learned 84 modes.
So you say that you know jazz musicians that can play at, let's say Andrew Speight's or Brian Lynch's level, but they can't read and don't know much theory? Would you please list a couple names? I'd like to check them out. Charles McPherson, Chris Potter?
Hey there, I'm thinking of some local musician I know who I won't name. However, Stan Getz has been quoted to say that he never studied music theory, and I've also read that he may have not read music.
it's ok to start but don't stay there if you really want to play jazz..... alterations, substitutions, ability to transpose ... analysing the standards will also be important.... and .... rhytm !....
@@Learnjazzstandards aural recall, so play major 7th chords on each note in your range so all 12, saying c e g b, c# e# G# b# ect and back down do the flats db f ab c, it would also help to use roman numerals as well the chromatic soflege. have a friend test you, maybe him or her playing an e flat, as well as telling you its an e flat, than sing the notes,numbers, and solfege of the chord. and that person will test you. once you get 100% each time on that chord than move on to the next chord quality. eventually move up to simple chord progressions, scales and even popular melodies using the same method. also inversions are good but dont drive yourself nuts either.. good video anyway
@@Learnjazzstandards aural recall. lets say you want to learn the major chords, do a round of them, up and down your instruments saying c e g b, C# e# g# B#, and back down like db f ab c ect. aslo helpful to know your chromatic solfege, and numbers. once you feel comftorable have a friend test you. your friend plays the note, and tells you the root, you sing the rest with correct spelling. once you ace eahc one multiple times, move on to next chord. ect, dont beat yourself over with it. but it is helpful to use this method on everything,, chord progressions, scales, popular melodies
Nice summary, but these concepts could easily take years to master for young beginner/intermediate players in middle school or high school. Your intro makes it seem like people don't need "a ton of music theory" to improvise successfully; but I'd consider some of what you cover here intermediate to advanced. Again, nice summary.
Bullshit, you need to know the bebop scale, and the reason for it. You need to know the melody of the tune. What you've presented is what beginners need to learn to get into jazz- functional for that stage, but the idea that it;s enough is mere clickbait.
@@Dvilch I love your name, being a former tenor, flute, piccolo and bari player! I started out as an ear player but when I went to college, I had to quickly learn to read. My professors caught on pretty quickly and always said Bonnie play it and nobody hum for her :) In music theory I found out I couldn't identify the intervals played on the piano. My Professor took me to the pipe organ and played them again. I identified them every time because on the pipe organ they are true tones . Turns out I have semi perfect pitch! I hear all the chords and overtones on the piano strings vibrating. No wonder I was so confused!!! This was back in the analog days when everything was mostly acoustic and digital wasn't around yet. I was a music copyist hoping the get at least some work in music. I did jazz band charts and stuff which with technology, is now obsolete. It was a beautiful art. Anyway... back to the point. Ear players have it hard too! They have to learn to sight read be-bop like everybody else. I even did counterpoint in my head as I didn't have a piano like they have out now days. The Musicologist would play mine when I got to class. I love JAZZ!!! Great video to get the cobwebs out of my head and learn it all over again!!! Thanks!
