I will do some research on those in relation to dart and Flutter. Is there anything specific you'd like me to cover for it, i.e. specific types of exaples or implementation. It Would help a lot as I'm doing my research
@@FilledStacks Just wanted to ask your opinion) I think gRPC, in the context of the lack of legacy solutions in the world of server dart backend, looks attractive due to standardization and support. Plus an advanced way of communicating via http2. What would be interesting is a working example and the process of setting up gRPC and envoy for gRPC-web. But this is probably too highly specialized for youtube views, like the dart backend in general)))
@@Constantine.. Oooooo I see ... Thank you for diving into a bit more detail on that. That clears things up. I will definitely add it to my curiosity ideas so I can explore and learn about it as well. I'll be sure to share my findings when I get something concrete and formulate some thoughts around it.
We have an app in production that uses gRPC. A year ago we had to quickly implement a new feature, so I decided to quickly create a separate "microservice" for this new feature written entirely on Dart and gRPC, and I was pleasantly surprised how everything worked so flawlessly and smooth. The protobuf code generation means we can completely share all API related code between the client and server, and direct built in streaming in Dart works flawlessly for bi-directional streaming in gRPC. I'm really surprised nobody talks about gRPC in Flutter apps.
Ed that sounds super awesome. Did you run pure dart in a container or use one of the backened packages I mentioned? What lib did you use for gRPC? where are you hosting. So many questions. I would really appreciate any resources you can drop in here that I can use to do some research on and maybe talk about as well.
Yeeaaaaahhhh!! Thank you. Happy to see you made it to the end. Since you're also Flutter experts, what's a topic you'd like to see a video on that you commonly look for in other content. Trying to figure out what to add to my topic list for research.
Thanks Ebrahim! I did not expect this to be the best video but I agree with you. I will definitely continue with the backend stuff as we're going to be building something and I would like it to be in Dart. Thanks for watching and leaving a comment!
🥽 I’m a medium rung flutter developer interested in api work. A few months back I got hijacked into learning api development in Springboot java framework, and loved it. It helped that Dart is so much like Java. Now I am working with a project in flutter that must use MySQL and run in a private on premises data Center, i.e., no cloud. So I turned to php and xampp server to develop my rudimentary backend. It can handle CRUD and signup/login, but still working on security manager/filter. Thank you for sharing on frog and pointing me in the right direction.
Recently I have made a game, to break the routine I decided to build the backend with dart and shelf. One of the worst decisions that I have made in my life 🤦♂️ once my app start getting new users and blowing up. The server starts consuming CPU like crazy. When it reaches 100% it freezes and never recovers. I had to restart it every time manually and the same thing happened again and again. I couldn't profile the issues and there is no community. I lost around 80% of my user base🤦♂️ I had to rebuild everything from scratch using node. Now everything is stable and much faster. I believe that the Dart team just cares about improving the language for flutter. It is not a good option to use dart as a backend. Excuse my English , but i wanted to share my story with dart as backend application 🙏
Man ... congrats on your success for getting to a point where the server crashes 😅 But that's an unfortunate story. This is why I mentioned that shelf is for experienced server developers only. There's a lot of manual things that you have to do especially for things like load balancing. The other options on the list like the Functions Framework or DartFrog can be deployed to places with automatic scaling and load balancing like Cloud Functions or AWS Lambda / App Runn, Google Cloud Run etc. I assume at that time it was probably the only option you had. Which is not that great. But I'm happy that you got it all working again! I appreciate you telling me the story. It's good to get this kind of feedback that I can share with the community.
I'm very happy to hear that. Thanks for watching, are there any topics you'd like me to talk about. Or anything you'd like to do in Dart that I can do some research on to clarify?
For Dart Backend nothing better than the Angel Framework, I've been using it for years in many projects, it's the best so far, it has good documentation, it's testable, it's very complete.
I tried it out, but the documentation wasn't that great and required quite a lot of boilerplate to create a nice architecture for the project. It takes a few days to setup something as clean as dart frog using Angel. But it also depends, I like single responsibility classes and files, so I don't want a bunch of other code mixed in with the actual purpose of the file. But it's great to hear some success with Angel, I've heard mostly bad things about it.
@@FilledStacks Angel3 has a command line tool that helps create projects, I particularly don't think I have to create a lot of bolerplate to start a project, I don't use its ORM a lot because I deal with large projects that deal with several databases different, so I implemented my own libraries to deal with databases, like fluent_query_builder, dargres, and more recently I made a port of eloquent from PHP , if you are having any difficulties try creating an issue in the angel3 project repository, it is being maintained by AngularDart community which is very welcoming.
Great video, Dane, showing the pros and cons, I agree that Dart Frog is the best for custom architecture and the documentation is great. By the way, I'm learning Axum, a promising Rust framework with great documentation and samples. :)
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words. I'm definitely going with Dart Frog. There's a few things I'll build ontop of it but it has a great base to work on. I haven't heard about Axum, will read up on it now. I appreciate your comment.
Thanks man. I'm happy to hear that. Trying to do different types of content. Comment below what topics you're interested in and I'll put that into my content list.
I just got back to writing Flutter code while keeping an eye on the Solana ecosystem. Dart smart contracts would be really cool and I have no idea where to start. Projects like firedancer and xNFT backpack make Flutter the logical next step for Web3 development. Would like to hear your thoughts on this
Interesting take. I am checking out the projects you mentioned and will see what I can dig up and share. Thanks for watching and thanks for leaving a comment.
@@FilledStacks I liked alfred, but it doesn't seem to be a serious project.... I think Dart is an underrated language that should be more popular, it is a compiled language (and also interpreted) which means it has a superior performance, it transpiles to JavaScript as TypeScript does, for desktop environments it has all kinds of libraries with a syntax similar to JavaScript in my opinion, and also with Flutter we can program cross-platform mobile apps with good performance.
Great video! I wonder if time has changed your opinion at all? I am really interested in utilising the Postgres Listen/Notify mechanism, to push updates to the client Flutter app. I know this is doable in the likes of Firebase, but we can't just change the back-end DB on a whim, to suit a new app.
Hey, thanks for watching! I appreciate it. You can definitely use that, you don't need dart for that. I followed along with a Flutter observable video by craig where he connected dart frog with postgres and it was an awesome setup. If I do anything on the backend with dart I'll definitely use dart-frog (still my current choice).
Hey, I'm very happy to hear that you like it. I was kind of concerned because it's not a follow along tutorial. I can definitely do a state of Flutter in 2023. I'll check out the TraversyMedia video to get an idea of what you're talking about. Also, the roadmap idea is very interesting.
@@sufianhaq That's awesome of you to offer that. I will definitely take you up on that. Leave your email below (not full) use [dot] or [at] to separate it so you don't get bot spam 😁 That way if we need some help with the research I'll drop you a mail. Thank you again. I really appreciate it.
Thanks for staying to the end 🎉 By plugins what exactly are you asking? 1. A package that wraps the functionality into something more consumable? 2. Actual plugins for the frameworks that perform certain functionalities .i.e. plugin to perform OAuth2 authentication. To give you some type of answer even before you answer. As I'm building our backend I will do the same thing I did with Flutter which is to package the work I've already done into something reusable for the community. It's my natural way of programming 😬 If I wrote it and it works no one else should HAVE to re-write the same code so I always package and share.
But why not keep flutter for just front end.. And for backend use django which is extremely simple. What's the benefit of using flutter for backend too
You can do that, for the past 13 years I've built backends with different technologies. What happens is you need to ensure that the models are synced, and you have to re-write some logic that could have been shared, around serialization and data interpretation. We still don't use dart in the backend, these are just the best options to do it if you wanted to. The other problem that I face is that I'm now much better in dart than any other language, so I'd rather stick to one language than have to write code in multiple languages.
I don't know. I'm not in the developer workforce. I've never had to look for a Flutter job before. There's a lot of companies using it here, I don't know if they're hiring.
thank you for this videio. I can only use api in flutter but can't create api. Considering that I have a relative mastery of the Dart language and have never had any back-end programming experience, what language do you think I should start working with? python, c#, Go, Dart and etc.
It's my pleasure. I'll be making a series of videos on how to develop a backend in Dart soon. I'm actually starting our first one today. My backend experience in API development is in C# but I'm going to be doing dart on the backend going forward. I would recommend C# given the number of resources. Dart has less resources about it but I'll be creating a catalogue of backend functionality soon.
What you think about using spring boot as the backend for flutter? What is your opinion? I have already set up and create endpoint for the flutter client to use . What would you recommend? Ideally something open source and cost efficient.
The language that the backend is written in makes no difference to Flutter. An http request to your api can be written in any language. I prefer to use the language I'm most comfortable with at the time just so that I can build something and get it out. If you get the users you can swap to something else later. If you have the endpoint setup then go with what you're using, I have no experience in Spring Boot so I don't know if it's good or not.
@@jazzycoder I've found that the news outside of SA is usually much worse than what's happening inside of SA. The worst thing in our country is violence against women in extremely low income communities. The majority of the country (in terms of population) lives in poverty. No electricity, water, etc. In those areas, females are abused, murdered, hurt, and taken advantage of. Outside of those areas, it's pretty normal. I've lived here my whole life and haven't been affected by it, also haven't had any females in my life affected by it, given that we live in a great place. Yesterday I drove past a Ferrari "morning run", it's a thing car owners with the same car type do and drive around in groups. There's still racism as well, from both sides. I'm a coloured (brown) and I hear it from my family and I also experience it from others (not in our race). These are very infrequent, but it's there. We're only 30 years out of apartheid so there are millions of people that grew up in their formative years being told how divided we should be and stay. Other than that I would say our police system causes for very dumb criminals to get away with stuff so more people are taking chances at taking what's not theirs.
@@FilledStacks Well stay safe mate, it's the same here in London, lots of stories about stabbings but you have to be quite unlucky to get caught up in it.
Thank you and I appreciate you watching to the end. Any topics you'd like to see more info about. Or any questions in Dart that you'd like someone to research or give a detailed answer on? Please let me know. Since you have a snorkel your request will be high priority 😊
@@svr666_ That's awesome to hear. First episode should be out in about 3 weeks. I'm busy updating Stacked to support the web navigation and routing. Once that's done I can continue building the project we're building and then make the videos about that.
If it didn't make this list I wasn't impressed with it. But these are all based on how I like to write code, so it might be a good fit for you. You should try it out.
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What's the point if there are no native database connectors for Dart?
Good question, and there are packages that provide connectors. MongoDB, SQL, Postgres, Maria there are even model => Schema => model generators to keep everything in sync. It might not be as advanced as C# with the entity integration but the packages that's available give enough optionality to make something. I'll have a more in depth answer for you as I attempt to build our app's backend using Dart. Once I run into issues and concerns like this I'll make videos about it and share my experience.
Hey great video! I’ve been wondering since Google has a “backend language” in Go, why doesn’t the Go team interact more with the Dart and Flutter teams? Wouldn’t Go be a good language to, for instance, write an API for an app that uses Dart/Flutter in their frontend (instead of trying to turn Dart fullstack)? Just wanted your opinion on the topic, maybe I’m missing something.
Hey, that's a good question. I was actually going to learn Go and start coding in that. The reason it's not promoted as much is because it's not appealing to the developers attracted to Flutter in General. A subset of developers that want to write the code once and use it everywhere. For this reason it's more appealing to not have to learn a new language just to do some basic backend stuff. In addition to that with go you still won't be able to share your models between your backend code and front end code. It makes sense to choose the best language for the task but if you're 1 dev, or maybe just two and you want to build something now without learning a new language it's always best to use what you already know.
@@FilledStacks Based on what you said, it makes a lot of sense why they promote Firebase so much. It provides exactly those simple but high utility backend functionalities. Thanks for the response 👊🏻
That's very awesome to hear Adam! I really appreciate it. Since there's a snorkel here your suggestions get top pic in the idea list. Let me know if there's any topics or questions, even if it's questions you're dealing with in your own code base. I want to make this show community driven so I need as many questions and topics as I can get.
I've tried Dart backends a couple years ago, they all were immature. Also the main drawback notices back then is Dart language itself, it's much easier to do the same thing in other languages like JS/TS or Python. Personally I love how FastAPI organized, it's really fast
Yeah, a few years ago I also tried it out. It's in a better place now. It depends on your experience, i personally struggle with Javascript and type script. I haven't checked out fast api but I'll definitely look over it and compare it.
@@FilledStacks for me personally Typescript and Dart if not twins, then brothers. There are even named parameters as well. Also NestJS is great, but FastAPI is more neat and simpler in my opinion
Yeah, I use TS in a different project and some backend stuff. It's definitely not difficult to learn or use effectively. But as I'm hoping to push my limits on Dart and my videos and ideas using it using it on the backend is a good step. But I agree, some stuff are waaay easier to do in Node env using TS or JS. It's much more mature.
would appreciate a more detailed discussion of some of the pros and cons. You mention certain more advanced things or terms as a given. Providing examples or short explanations of what it means would be very helpful. 🤿
Thanks Max! Do you have examples from the video of things that I mentioned that I could go deeper into? I'm asking because I thought I kept it quite basic, I might have some knowledge blindness. I would appreciate it if you can point it out to me.
@@FilledStacks in the end, where you talked about dep injection I totally lost you. Maybe it's just me though. I also was not in the best concentration mode when I was listening to that since this topic is interesting but not something I would really see myself as using in the immediate future. Also would be. Nice to see parallels to the nodejs ... It's arguably most popular technology for backend among app devs I would think. Shelf seems to be an express analogue. Would be useful if you mentioned this. That's all I could think of ) You output nice content. Thank you.
@@inteist Awesome, thanks Max I appreciate you diving into it. I will be making more videos on things like dependency injection, how it works, and how to implement it. I'm the process of finding a groove at which i can output regular content like this so I appreciate the feedback. It'll make me more cognisant of some engineering principles that might not be an understood principle in the community.
As always, your content never fails to delight! Well done, Dane, and I look forward to more of the same. 🤿 A comment about the Serverpod dependencies. It does require Docker, but deploys Postgres and Redis for you. So not quite as daunting. I agree though about the testing. It will be interesting to see what direction they go in to support that.
Thanks for checking in man. I was away working on a few products, the company had to close down so now I'm gonna go fulltime on RU-vid. I've posted 3 videos since I cMame back 😊 busy working on the new Flutter web series. And yes, I'm great! Thanks for asking. I appreciate it.
I'm really appreciative of everyone that watches the videos to the end because of the effort it takes to create them. What would be the next thing you'd like to learn about Dart backend?
@@FilledStacks more web dev + mobile content using flutter and a stack (maybe using dart functions? or something more commonplace) which I feel youre already doing and want to do. Essentially using flutter with more common place stacks besides firebase. Without firebase, alot of features become really complicated when you want your app to scale. You cant cover it all, youre not meant to either but an explanation on how you would attempt it would be nice. Besides that I cant ask of much but to update what you already have posted if its required. Youve already done alot, have been following for years. Thank you for that, most likely wouldnt be here without your help and efforts at somepoint. Maybe a more indepth video of responsive builder and how to make your view responsive for different types of common views (eg. dashboard, landing page, etc) as opposed to simply having seperate views for specific screen viewports/breakpoints. I understand both are required but I'd prefer to do it without duplicating code and having an overcomplex widget. This tends to be more of a flutter foundation question but I'd like to see how one of the creators of responsiveBuilder uses it his everyday development.
@Ali I appreciate the response. In the latest Flutter web video I show the full responsive pattern we use. There's no duplication of implementation, just usage of the shared widget and then each widget can respond to the screen how they see fit. I haven't required anything else besides scaling the text based on the screen width. This covered all our super complex responsive requirements and made it so maintainable. I won't be updating older videos any time soon. I think they serve as a good foundation. I appreciate the detailed response 😁 I'm hoping to share more backend stuff al though I will not build and manage my own if there are so many backends as a service like firebase. I dislike wasting time on things that have been made easier through platforms.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah man🫡 thanks for watching until the end. I appreciate it. Would like to put out more videos like this for guys like you who watch until the end. Let me know if you have any topics you want me to cover in this style.
Yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaahhhhh!! That's so awesome! Thank you for sticking around and listening. You get priority in the topics and questions. Anything you'd like me to cover leave it here and it'll get double points in my content list.
@@juanmacias5922 Wooohooo! Thanks a lot for watching until the end. I really liked creating this style of content. As I mentioned to Simon. You get priority in the topics and questions. Any dart questions, and flutter questions. Leave it below and I'll add it to the idea list with double points.
@@juanmacias5922 mmmmmm, I also don't have any experience using BLoC. I only use Stacked for my app development. But i can definitely cover it in one of these videos, maybe compare its pros and cons.
