after putting the powder in the shell, if there is any air space it will affect the speed of the bullet. I recommend putting your rifle upright before shooting so the powder sits against the primer. Some people add cream of wheat on top of the powder (taking up any air space in the cartridge) and then seat the bullet against a completely filled casing. You can prove this to yourself by using only powder and tamping your rifle toward the ground before you shoot that bullet. Then, for the next cartridge, put your barrel pointing to the sky and tamp it, lower it towards your shoulder, and then shoot. You will notice a significant difference in the velocity of both rounds. Thanks for the info and the really great video you did. God bless brother.
Thanks for the baseline information on reloads for .44 WCF. I have a beautiful Uberti 24" Winchester '73 with the sporting stock that was imported by Navy Arms over 25 years ago and will be reloading for it in the future.
Enjoyed watching your 44-40 ammo test! I have a Winchester 1892 chambered in 44-40 built in 1884 on the way and wanted to see how the HSM Cowboy ammo performed and it looks good for all around use. However I will be loading my own once I get some fired brass in hand. Now about the 1873 model....I have 2 one in 45 Colt and the other is in 44 Mag with 19 inch barrel. My research shows that when Uberti built the 44 Mag they did special heat treating on reciever and toggle link action to handle the higher pressures so it is stronger than the 44.40 and 45 Colt versions. I shoot mild 44 Magnum loads through it and it is a very fine shooting rifle....much better than my 2017 Henry 44 Mag carbine was!
Kinda late to this video but hope to see more videos like this from you. Just now getting into reloading and love seeing and hearing about all the different loads and possibilities. Nice rifle also
This is the first time I’ve seen someone using a full on rifle powder to load these types of rounds (I’m usually looking at 45 colt) but it makes perfect sense if you want to keep pressure as low as you can. You just have to be willing to use 2x the powder. I know my 1892 doesn’t need the pressures policed this strictly so I’ll probably use a much faster powder to get my target fps but I know these toggle links are much weaker.
I have seeen some of that data for RL-7 and it's interesting for sure but since I happen to have H4198..., maybe I don,t need to run out and get another powder. Is that 25.5 a limit load where they recommend backing off 5 or 10% then work up from there? I have the stronger action 92(Rossi) anyway so maybe it's not so much a factor. I saw a site where a guy's gettin 1900 + fps with about the same amount of L'il Gun for his Rossi 92 but now I can't remember where I saw it. I don't need 1900 but I look for powders like that which will deliver plenty ballistics even with reduced loads. Great informative video keep up the good work.
My 44-40 WCF handloads are tuned to be hovering around 1400fps too and the SDs are very good. I use more old school powders like Unique or Green Dot. My pistols are Ruger and my rifle Win 1892 with 24", so no worry about holding up. Starline Brass seems to be fine too.
Fav load is 9 to 10 gr of Unique. 9.3 will give about 1350 fps out of a 24 inch barrel and about 1100 out of a 5 1/2 in Colt SAA. 10 grains are safe out of modern guns and will give about 1450 from rifle and about 1200 from same Colt. They are very accurate out of both rifle and handgun if you use the correct dia bullet for your firearm. The bullets are standard 200 gr lead fnrp. Happy shooting.
For comparison it would be helpful to see results with Winchester's factory load, Super X Power Point 200 gr. JSP. You know, for that GREAT DAY when it becomes plentiful again on the shelves and mail order. And HOPEFULLY less than $4/per round. So much of the available data is for the Cowboy Action Shooting loads. Congratulations on your fine rifle. Thanks for your demonstration and information provided, "OSF Outdoors."
Beautiful rifle and wow im suprised that cat did not even flinch when you shoot! Must be used to it but still as skidish as cats are still suprised and i was fully expecting at least some sort of reaction when u fired that first shot😮😺😆
The R7 load was developed many years ago, it’s a proven accurate, and safe load. 24-26 grains (depending on barrel dimensions) behind a 200 grain lead bullet will attain the original 1873 design spec velocity of 1,350 fps from a 24” bbl.
A few Comments refer to the modern, Italian manufactured, 1873 carbines' barrel length at 19". WHY THEN, when the original, vintage Winchesters were 20" bbl carbine and 24" bbl rifle as standard lengths for each model, are Italian clones 24" bbl rifle yet 19" bbl carbines? Same holds true with the 1892 it seems.
interesting vid. I have a Navy Arms 1873... with 30" barrel.. was probly made by Pietta or someone back then. Really pretty rifle but I rarely shoot it Buddy had a Rugger SAA in 44-40 and as you say there was not a lot of data on it. Been doing this for a long time so have a few manuals from the 80's I came up with a mild load and we took both guns out and my chrono. Realistically the 44-40 from a handgun should make the same or more velocity that the 45 Colt.. They were about the same power. so my loads were light at around 800 fps from his revolver but what was surprising was that the rifle added almost 350 fps for around 1150 fps still pretty mild. If you like to shoot cast slugs tho might I suggest HT coated bullets? Do it yourself or buy em coated. no smoke no leading. no handling lead. I think I might mess with some 200 grain cast and coated slugs and Accurate #9 powder... #9 is very similar to 2400 in burn rate but much cleaner. I can't belive they chambered a 1873 in 44 mag cause it uses that toggle action. The 76 looks about the same but with a much stronger action I think your target velocity of 1350 is reasonable... I had given it a bit of thought in the past and was thinking 1250 would be pretty good.
"doranmaxwell1755," I'm with you re reservations about the Win. 1873 in .44 Magnum. It's on the border of "you're askin' for it!" -- unless one just shoots .44 Special.
Been interested in 44-40 wcf in a new 92 Winchester, but because of the " watered down " loads that are available , I find it very unappealing. Hard to find any like " hunting " load data anywhere. Something like my new 86 Winchester in 45-90 wcf , you really have to do alot of research. Thank you for your insight and time developing these loads. It gives me ideas now.
Hey Robert! Yes sir load data for hunting rounds in the 44-40 are about impossible to find. It was the cowboy action shooters that revived the rounds when it was going obsolete so we owe them a big thank you for That but the ammo industry pretty much kept the ammo very low powered for that sport. They kind forgot about the real deal load. I guess because the 44 mag is available they figured that round would be enough to satisfy a 44 cal more appropriate for hunting but I love my 44-40 and I searched high and low to find these loads. Now the obstacle is finding Reloader 7 and or H4198.
@@osfoutdoors5109 " . . . the ammo industry pretty much kept the ammo very low powered . . . " translated: " . . . the ammo industry's ATTORNEYS pretty much kept the ammo very low powered to CYA from the ambulance-chasing sorts representing the fools / idiots with vintage Winchesters, Marlins and Colts who refuse to or forgo abiding by the SPECIFIC warnings (paraphrased): "WARNING !! These cartridges are loaded with modern components and accompanying volume and are to be used in MODERN weapons in good condition only; NOT guns manufactured in the black powder era." That, of course, has ruined the potential -- for those who don't handload -- to confidently and humanely use their .44-40s for deer hunting and / or as a self defense choice. In the 20th century Canada's Dominion brand (R.I.P., sigh) offered just such a "modern" safe round with the accompanying, near idiot-proof advisement on each and every box.
Awesome video. I'm looking at picking up one of those rifles this weekend. I'm leaning towards 45 Colt as my pistol is in that caliber. I'd like to find a recipe for something more than plinking loads.
I have used 8.5 - 9 grains of Alliant Unique powder. That 9 grain load using a hardened RNFP 250 grain bullet. It is at the top of the standard pressure for the 45 Colt. I beleive I was getting about 1,150 fps from the 24" Uberti 1873 barrel. Should be plenty for even deer sized game up to 75 yards and pleasant to shoot in a rifle.
How is the accuracy with the 4198? With a 150 yard zero how high are you at 75? I'm thinking 4"? Have you taken a deer with this load? I've been thinking about getting a 1873 in 44-40 . Looks like a lot of fun. Thank you 👍
I e noticed about 2 inch high at 75 yards. Nothing scientific just me playing around with it. I’ve not actually zeroed I have only shot a 8 inch pie plate at 150 yards. I haven’t actually taken a deer yet. I am running out of time but I am also about to take this rifle and load coyote hunting.
@@osfoutdoors5109 2 in high at 75 hitting at 150 is a pretty good trajectory for this rifle that should make for a very good hunting load inside of 150. Coyote hunting with this rifle should be a lot of fun. I hope you get it on video. Thank you 👍
I reloaded 200g bullet with 25.5 gn of h4198 they chronograph at 1550fps. I used my henry 1860, and my uberti . It was a noticeable change from 1060 fps. But the rifles handled it well, I cast my own bullets also.is the cup pressure safe. Also my chronograph 7 feet away from me.
I wouldn't do this. The reason is I have an original Colt Frontier Six Shooter made in 1894, an original Colt Bisley Frontier made in 1900, an original Colt 1878 double action made in the 1880's , an original Smith and Wesson New Model #3 Frontier, an original Smith and Wesson 1881 double action Frontier, and an 1873 Winchester short rifle made in 1910. Like you I do not enjoy cleaning black powder but I load 34 grains of Hodgson Triple 7 FFFG and get approximately the same load as the original Winchester load in 1873. Hodgson recommends reducing the original black powder load by 15% because Triple 7 is that much more volatile than black powder and 34 grains (40-15%) of Triple 7 in a modern case allows for a small amount of compression with a 200 or 205 grain cast lead bullet.
@Bryan Austin That's a lot of interesting information. I don't have a lo0t of equipment to do a lot of testing but I can say this. A modern 44-40 case will hold 40 grains of black powder or Triple 7 by volume. That is all the way to the case mouth with no room for a bullet on top. If that load ios compressed by loading a 200 grain rnfp on top and fired in my 1894 vintage Frontier Six Shooter I can't extract the cases from the cylinder with the provided mechanism and have to take a section of cleaning rod and tap them out with a hammer. 34 grains of Triple 7 must be only slightly compressed and normal extraction is no problem.
@Bryan Austin I'm sticking with my 34 grains of Triple 7 now. I wasn't trying to push things. Just looking to get original performance. Hodgson recommends reducing the black powder volume by 15% so I'm following their advice.
The Reloader 7 and 4198 loads seemed a little hot to me! The triple 7 has shot well for me in a 44-40 Marlin 1894. I've also used it with some success in a 32-40 Winchester 1894. Good ballistics and a lovely plume of smoke! Thanks for your comment! ❤
I have a Chiapa model 1892 carbine)in 44-40 and I would love to have some JHP rounds for deer hunting. I got in touch with Winchester’s ammunition company and they said they might have some in 2 years. Can you point me in the right direction of a reloader who can produce some JHP +p rounds for me? Or Provide the data for reloading with a JHP +p rounds so I can go to a reloader to produce some rounds for me?
If you make your own ammo, you can use any 44 caliber hollow point bullet, just size it down or order it in .428 diameter. A hollow point bullet in a case that is full of pyrodex P or any other black powder will make a decent hunting cartridge. Use a magnum pistol primer with all black powder loads.
I notice the 44-40 loves high velocity, and usually the higher the velocity the more accurate it tends to be. You can get 1,400 feet per second with a case full of pyrodex P a lubbed wad and a 200 grain bullet with a magnum pistol primer. On the Uberti 73 winchester rifles they use harder steel that has special heat treatment to make the bolt and toggle links harder than other rifles. I dont think they do that on the 44-40 rifles, so not as strong.
@@osfoutdoors5109 Yes. The 1873 winchester rifle made by Uberti chambered in 44 mag has harder special heat treated steel in it. There was a video done on it by somebody that was on a tour of the Uberti factory in Italy. A couple gun magazines did some articles on it too.
@@osfoutdoors5109 try standard 44 special load data in the 44-40. You will get a bigger variety of bullet weight and types and they all work fine in the 44-40. Its worth taking a look.
Good comment! I load with a progressive tool, and produce relatively mild ammunition. Very comforting to see the powder charge in the case before you seat the bullet! I like it in 44-40, 45colt, and 38/357. ❤
@@tedpfenninger4972 I started using Trail Boss smokeless powder 14 years ago because it’s designed specifically to be used in old black powder cartridges such as 45 Colt and 44-40 WCF . It works great in 38 Special too. I like it because it fills up the case to a depth at where the bullet seats…..and yes you can clearly see the powder in the case. It’s impossible to double charge the case with Trail Boss.
@@stephenfields6236 Yeah, It's clean burning and I like it, But it's next to impossible to find it anywhere these days. I found some three and a half years ago. Glad I pucked up a two pound keg.
What load of Reloader 7 and what results? I have been using 6 gr. of 700x with a 200gr. .428 bullet. It's about 1050 fps. If I can get 1200 - 1300 fps without damage, I'd try it.
I am using 25.5 grains of either reloader 7 or H4198. I also use a .428 bullet with a regular large pistol primer. You will get more power at longer range with this rifle powder than the pistol powder. The 25.5 grain is a case load that will fill the case up to the cannelure
WDTA UT. TRY 25 grains first. That will put you between 1200 and 1300. You can bump up from there to 25.5 if you need to. I have found that it is a nice and safe load and I am very happy with it. Is if I could just find more R7 and or H4198
@@osfoutdoors5109 OK, I finally have the answer. I have a model 1873 by Cimarron Firearms. I believe it is their "Sporting" model. I think these rifles were manufactured by Uberti. Cimarron does not show the 44 Mag as one of their chamberings. When I bought the rifle, the seller included a box of Winchester 200 gr. Power Point deer loads. The box says they are 1190 fps. This is easily the most expensive and best looking rifle I own.
Fun video. I reload for my 1956 Winchester Model 94 in 30-30 Win. My powder choice is Trail Boss for target shooting. Have you tried this powder in your rifle?
Good comment! Data for reduced loads with Trail Boss is available for most bottle neck cases, I've used it with cast bullets in 30-06, 30WCF, 32-40, and 303. A double charge overflows the case so it's very safe. Wonderful stuff! Thanks.❤
A balloon head case would only get you maybe 2 or 3 grs. more black powder in the case. The 44-40 was never loaded with 40 grs. Of BP, that 40 grs. Was a reference to the water capacity of the case. Kinda false advertising from Winchester. False advertising laws didn't come about until the first part of the 20th century..
Nice vid… I run 23gr of R7 under a 255 gr bullet… 1350fps It is deadly accurate. I have a custom barrel that is 34” long… Rifling turn rate is 1-34” I get 1.5” to 2” groups at 100 yrds.. 4” groups at 200 yrds. My most impressive group was 10” at 500 yrds These are 5 shot groups I only use certified pure 20-1 lead alloy casted from a mold I machined myself… I do sell them… But it is important to have a proper twist rate… no faster then 1-28” and no slower then 1-36”. Uberti is producing 44-40 now with 1-20 twist rifling… not cool. When shooting cast bullets you never get a perfectly balanced bullet like jacketed ones or swaged ones…. Therefore spin them at a slower rate and accuracy is much better… a car tire that is out of balance will do fine at 30mph… but at 70mph it shakes badly… same with bullets. Also 20-1 lead alloy crush compression is 12,000 psi… R7 powder pressure is very close to that…. Match the gas pressure to the alloy pressure is important. I’ve been shooting and casting for many many years… Ive had the 44-40 for many years… I’ve killed many deer and hogs n bear and coyotes with it. My furthest deer kill 240 steps away. The 44-40 is no slouch… it’s a killer… I’ve been to hell n back with it… it is worn n battle scarred… in the mountains and woods n plains… you’ll have to pry it from my cold dead hands.
