I have read several times, in old journals abd news paper articles where grizzly brears have been killed with the 44WCF. (44-40) the old loads were much stronger than the puny crap thats made in factorys today. They even made a commercial 44WCF high velocity load. The only way to get the most out of the 44WCF is to hand load.
I love the .44-40 WCF. I have been shooting it thru my Uberti lever guns for decades. I have reloaded it many times with BP and smokeless. The slight neck expands in the chamber to seal the gases in the barrel, and stops the blowback of gases into the action, making it much easier to clean. unlike str8 walled cases. With a Lee mould and dies you can reload forever, as long as you have lead, powder, and primers.
In CAS loads that's the problem with 45 Colt, it does not seal and you get blowback in rifles especially. That's why the 45 Colt Cowboy Special was invented...a cut-off 45 Colt for Cowboy Action Shooting. This could be avoided by using the 44 WCF. Additionally, 45 Colt was never originally chambered in the cowboy era rifles (see Mike's vid on that).
Ummm... No. The 45 Colt special was invented for volume reasons in cases when using light loads in SASS, Its still a straight walled brass just shorter and can be used in all 45 Colt guns. A 44-40 brass has a slight taper to it and some claim this is what seals the gases from blowback in the action. So using 45 Colt Special is no different than using 45 Colt regular brass in terms of sealing, just a gimmick to get people to spend money on crap they dont need, use a filler wad or filler and your case will be full, as for the blowback people should quit resizing the hell out of the case if they are using it in the same gun all the time.@@tomcurran8470
When I was a kid an older man in the neighborhood befriended us and took us hunting in his Scout. He had a 92 Winchester in .44-40 and let us shoot it. It was a really sweet combination. I bought his Scout, but it never occurred to me to try and buy his 92 or his .250-300 Savage 99.
One of the greatest parts of life is learning. As usual, I was entertained and informed. Thank you sir for being one of those rare individuals who can make learning fun.
So glad you did not talk about difficulties reloading 44-40's. Every article I've read (just about) does. They talk about the thin necks getting messed up. My favorite old cartrifge is the 38-40. I've loaded thousands. Rarely do I get a wrinkled neck, and if I do, it's my fault, not the cartridge. Thanks for a great video, Mike. Tom Ireland
I got my 44/40 around 5 years ago in a Miroku Winchester Model 92. It is a great shooter with both black and smokeless. Reloading the thin brass takes a little TLC but other than that is easy to load and shoot. Great round that modern shooters should appreciate more.
Get the most out of it. Buy reloading dies and make your own. Theres a world of difference between factory 44 -40 ammo and hand loads. Check out Lymans cast bullet hand book for great load data.
People keep trying to say the same thing about the 1911 and yet it's outlived many pistols younger than itself, and has been in continuous manufacture at Colt since it was adopted.
Good work, Mike! I have a repro 1860 Henry and a repro Remington 1875, both in 44-40. Few months ago, was able to acquire an original Ideal loading tool in 44-40, as well.
As a gun starved Brit I really enjoyed this video, I love American history especially if it's firearm related I once had a Uberti 73 SRC but alas it was in .22 lr.
When I could finally buy Firearms in the ‘60’s, I wanted Old Man Ronstadt’s Merwin & Hulbert DA Pocket Army, in what I was told was in .44 Russian… it took me a number of months to get as I had to help my Mom with money to go towards our 25-35 dollar a month’s rent… When I finally had enough to buy it, I was told it was a .44 WCF! It was immensely powerful, belching out large clouds of rolling smoke! The Ronstadt’s would break open a box of ammo and sell black powder .44-40 Cartridges for 16 cents a piece, but sometimes I could get a deal at the Cartridge Shop in Safford or the Army Navy store in Tucson, if I could use the Black Powder Loads… They had corrosive primers and of course the Black Powder required washing the Merwin in hot soapy water, before properly lubing the old Merwin back up… My Mom would drop a calf when I would blow my breath in the muzzle of the empty Merwin to soften the fowling which delighted me to Hell and Gone! I never did match it up with a carbine though, that took a Ruger Flat Top in .44 Magnum and a Winchester Model 94 both in .44 Magnum when I was in the Marines. I quickly outgrew the Winchester though, eventually settling on a Scoped Husqvarna in .35 Whelen! Thanks for listening to a rambling old man!
I have long speculated that the popularity of the .44 WCF was not “because you could use the same cartridge in your pistol and your rifle”, but because it was commonly available anywhere that sold metallic cartridges. That little crossroads general store was more likely to have .44 WCF, than .44 American, .44 Russian, .45 schofield, or even .45 Colt. Even today a lot of people choose 9x19mm over .40 Smith and Wesson, .357 Sig, .38 Super, etc…, for the same reason.
The original 45 Colt had a very small rim and did not eject reliably. The modern cartridges have a notch cut under the rim to give the extractor more purchase.
I was surprised to see that the .44-40 generates what looks like pretty good recoil out of the Colt clone. Not surprised to find out that it's more powerful than the .45 Colt. Love it!!
The .45 Colt would have been more powerful. The original loading for the 44/40 of 40gr of 3f black powder, and a 200gr lead bullet at 1100 to 1200 fps from a 24 inch barrel, would have been easily eclipsed by the .45 with similar velocities, using the original load of 40gr of 3f black powder and a 255 gr lead bullet, had there been a loading for it in a Winchester rifle. The .45 Colt was a Martial (military) cartridge, and since there was never any intention of using it in a rifle (they had the 45/70 for that), specifications called for a cartridge rim that would be sufficient for a revolver cylinder, but was too small to reliably work with any type of extraction system. Modern Winchester clones are most commonly produced in .357 magnum, and .45 Colt for good reason.
You cant really add too much black powder in these cases, black powder needs to be compressed in a case. More than 40 grains you'll hardly have any space to seat your bullet. Smokeless powder you can add too much! Use a reliable reloading manual or manufactures suggested loads when using modern smokless
The 45 Colt is a bigger pipe. It will always have more power potential than a 44-40 or 44 Magnum. In this particular case Mike was using lighter bullets in the 44-40 so it produced more velocity. Energy foot lbs favors velocity. At equal bullet weights and chamber pressures, the bigger cartridge will always be more powerful.
After a certain period, the Army stopped using 255 grain 45 Colt in their Peacemakers. They used 200 grain 45 S&W so that they had common ammo for both the Colts and the Smith and Wesson Schofield they issued. So the 44-40 WAS MORE POWERFUL than what the US Army issued.
Good video, and yes my subscription is in tact with notifications. Also I was under the impression that the 45 Colt was the more powerful cartridge over the 44-40, thanks for correcting my error that many people still believe to be true.
Apples and oranges. The 44WCF has much higher velocity, and i feel much greater distance (range) than the 45 colt. The bullet weight / velocity is what to look at in comparison.
That .44-40 is a lot more powerfull than I thought .I figured that black powder would produce significantly slower velocities compared with modern day smokeless powders , but those .44-40 loads from the rifle are pretty close to comparable with that of modern day .44mag ammunition . I can see now why it (.44-40)was so popular back in the day especially in a (2) gun same cartridge configuration . Your expertise in firearms along with your vast historical knowledge makes your videos extremely enjoyable & entertaining . Thank you so much !
The only real difference is that BP loads require longer barrels to produce velocities similar to smokeless. BP is “just as powerful” as smokeless powder. It just burns more slowly.
I appreciate the explanation , I didn't know that . I've never really done anything with black powder but I'm finding it more interesting with every reply . Thanks !@@samuelprice2461
@@samuelprice2461black powder is about 1/3rd as powerful as smokeless. A 44 mag or 45 Colt (or 44-40) in a rifle with proper magnum loads with smokeless will be much more powerful than a full case of black powder. And black powder actually burns much faster than most smokeless powder.
Winchester sure had a winner with the 73, and 44-40 . But for my use I like the 38-40 seems a little faster and flatter shooting, great video and shooting
You should read what all Elmer Keith had to say about the 38-40. He stopped packing it because it almost got him killed on a hunt. He also talks about why the 38-40 tends to be more accurate. Keith wrote several books and they are all worth a read.
You are a great inspiration for me. I'm a gun guy from Sweden and I'm just about to buy a Uberti Colt Bisley in just 44-40. (Yes we can own guns in Sweden)😊 I follow your videos with grat interest. Good job. //Eric Wallberg
When I started shooting 44-40 I found the factory bullets are sized to .425 to make them safe in early guns. Shoot terrible in my Henry replica soon found I had to reload my own ammo with .427-.428 sized bullet to get it to shoot straight!
Out of a 24 inch barrel on a 73 Winchester a 200 grain bullet loaded with a case full of pyrodex P gets over 1,400 feet per second. Thats magnum territory.
Fascinating stuff, Mike, thank you. I can recall watching Westerns as a child and wondering if the loops on their belts held rifle or pistol cartridges, not understanding that the lever actions fired the same cartridge as the revolvers. You can really see the advantage of using the same cartridge for both! I am slightly surprised by the comparison with the .45 Colt; I saw another channel do a similar comparison and the two cartridges were close to comparable--perhaps he didn't load as consistently, or his weapons had differences that accounted for that. As for RU-vid, it's not paranoia when it's fact, and the Bud Lite drinkers at You Tube hate firearms channels. Keep fighting the good fight.
If you note at the 6:02 mark, the ammo box is labeled "50 Central-Fire Cartridges". I have run accross other historical accounts that claim the original nomenclature for the 44 WCF was Winchester Central-fire. I think the term centerfire came later.
Love 44-40, but they are so difficult to find. Pre-pandemic there were 5 ammo makers producing 9 loads. Now there are none, at least not in regular production. Fortunately, most still list it, they just haven't made any in 3 years. Partial boxes were selling for over $4 a round on auction sites. HSM released some in April, but still $1/round.
If you're shooting 44/40, reloading is highly recommended. Get yourself a quantity of brass and then you'll be set. Factory loads are insanely expensive if you can even find them. You'll open up the black powder avenue if you reload too, which is one of the best aspects of the cartridge.
I've seen the same. Like 66smithra said, 44-40 is pretty much a reloader's cartridge (at least for now). I don't have the equipment yet, so I'm stuck with the $4 per round expense (yeesh!)
I have the sane 1873 Uberti and a matcing Colt SAA as well as allot of other cowboy action guns, and have shot black powder rifles for 40 yrs. So I have really enjoyed your different content on all of those and particularly enjoy all the history background information you present. Sure hope you get your range and land back, and I hope the court awards you dameges and makes them pay for all the costs that you have incurred. Thank you sir
When I acquired my Merwin Hulbert, it said Winchester 1973 on the side and I had to take it to my local gun shop and ask a dumb question to figure out what to load in it. Shoots great.
It's hard to believe 44-40 didn't stay around as a popular round based on the Ballistics. I saw some old 44-40 at a gun show recently, but good luck in finding it at your local gun store.
As always...a well made and entertaining learning experience. Thanks once again Mike. I hope the fight is moving forward and you still hold the high ground.
Love the 44WCF. Had 2 Ruger Vaquero’s and a Rossi 92 they all shot great miss those guns. Now I have a EMF Great Western II and a Navy Arms 1875 Remington. They both shot excellent with BP or smokeless.
Although I don't have the 44-40 pair, I do have the 1873 Uberti Winchester in 45 lc. 100 yards no problem. Last Thanksgiving Day, everyone was at the PA State Range. Took some time to dial in the sights at 100 yards in a precise manor. But once I did, I loaded my last 4 rounds, stood up from the bench and levered them off. All hit within 2-4 inches of center @ 100 yards. It did as good as the benched scoped rifles. (Tips hat brim)
Your timing is almost scary. Just last night I kind of went down a rabbit hole. On my acquisition list are several lever and wheel guns in 44-40. However, yesterday, I was looking at some original 1873s at Rock Island Auctions. The 73's in 44-40 are noticeably more expensive than the ones in 38-40. I was trying to figure out if that would work for me. One benefit is in 38-40, I can get a Ruger Vaquero with swappable cylinders for 38-40 and 40S&W. A long time ago, my plan was to keep some level and single action revolvers in blackpowder/cowboy loads, and have others that were higher power. Then, I reasoned I'd get a wheel and lever gun in 44-40 for BP/ cowboy, and use 45 colt (or maybe 44 or 357 Mag) for high power smokeless. Your video reminded me of why I decided on this plan: 44-40 is a better BP round. So now the question is do I want an original 1873 or a modern Mirouku 1873...hmmm
Thankyou Mike for doing a video on the great 44-40. When I was about 12 Dad took me to deer camp for the first time it was in the Ozarks back then you were lucky to find any deer tracks, any way he needed a rifle for me to cary so he borrowed my Uncles old 1873 in 44-40 he picked up a box of shells somewhere, being a little kid it whore me out carrying it up and down the hills. We didn’t see any deer so Dad wanted to shoot it so he shot the heads off to squirrels two shots and we had them for dinner that was a great memory for me that was so long ago. Love your channel Mike keep the videos coming.
@@ttoth7130I’ve thought about it for a minute and I think he’s trying to imply that 45 GAP is a return to the old way of building a cartridge proprietary to the gun that shoots it. Which is not necessarily true but I guess I can see where he got to that conclusion.
Great video Mike. I too am a fan of the 44-40, and those Uberti firearms. I believe Uberti makes some of the finest production guns in the world, they're beautiful, accurate, & a joy too shoot & own. See you next time
Loved this video! Got to shoot a friend's 44-40 Remington rolling block years ago as a kid. Fun cartridge, but I was particularly impressed by the ballistics you obtained with it using black powder. Very cool!
The 44WCF is a great old cartridge. NONE of the factory ammo is worth a damn, but hand loads make it very potent, very capable. Hope your legal battles are going well Mike.
Those black powder loads sound amazing from that colt on your mic Mike lol. Cool cartridge... I love it fir BPCR and some 240 grain powder coated projectile ive found loading info for... Great power with it. Funny to me i had to find a loading pamphlet from the 1930s to get it.
Back in my Cowboy Action shooting days I had two sets of guns, a 92 Winchester and a pair of 71/2" nickel Colt SAA and a Uberti 66 Winchester and Ubertis in 44-40. And both were great to compete with, but I really liked the 44-40s because as Mike pointed out, it was one of the "traditional " calibers available historically in the old west. Thieves got all of them except for one 357 Colt SAA and a Marlin 39 .22. It was sure fun while it lasted
I never miss a video, thank you for the effort in these videos, it really shows! I have you to thank for me getting into black powder revolvers : ) Have a good day sir.
I never had problems with videos not showing up, I daily go to the button of the channels I have subscribed to on youtube, no notifications, and see whats new, they always show up that way.
My Great, Great Uncle Thomas Cowan had an 1873 chambered in 38-40, made in 1887, the year he was born. I now have that rifle, and it puts up nearly the same numbers when loaded with 200 grain bullets and BP. While I believe the energy is the same, the BC may be slightly better with the .400 bullet. I cast both 180 and 200 grain bullets for it. I do still have a few boxes of the original balloon head ammo circa 1908. I did test a few rounds, while wearing a face shield, just in case, and it was still very powerful sending the bullets across at mid 1,300's. It is probably the last 3 boxes of ammo G.G. Uncle Thomas purchased. He passed away in 1948, long before I was born.
I have been a shooting my Colt frontier six shooters this summer I casted some ribs 200 grain round nose flat point for them and they are a blast to shoot
