The last few months, I've been sleeping my jellyfin/backup server. I wake it with homeassistant sending the WOL packet. Works immediately world wide.❤❤❤
Thank you very much for your effort and sharing. Indeed, I used WoL many ears ago for backup on a 2nd swtation over a distance of ca.100km. There was a VPN connection between the two stations. But later on, the amount of data got too large to synchronize in a reasonable way over the internet.
Magic packages sometimes works sometimes not for me. A simpler option: In BIOS - Restore AC power loss - power ON. Now, Wi-Fi power socket. You can enable everything, even those that do not support magic packages. The rest is the same...
Windows Updates often reset adapter settings and causes this. This is much rarer in linux so check you have the correct line in /etc/network/interfaces (or equivalent) to force set it on every boot. Occasionally, I've seen cheap overloaded switches drop WOL packets when overloaded or if there are too many of them on a network (maybe it's similar to ARP table overload symptoms) Personally, I use both WOL and a wifi switch or GPIO relay for important machines
I use also a NUC with the Wake Up on Power Option, but my question is how are you sending this remotely do you have a public IP or how are you accessing your system from outside? For example here in Germany I had for my HA the duckdns with some open port but since I changed my Internet provider it doesn't work anymore so I guess the port is now blocked ... 😢
The problem with those is that if something goes wrong with the socket (bad supply cap) there's a chance you'll be power cycling your computer many many times before you notice something's wrong. A cheaper alternative would be to have an esp32 bridge the power switch. Make it take power from the standby 5V that way you don't need an external adapter.
I've used WOL for many years and I've found this problems: 1) WOL support in motherboards is not consistent and does not always works reliably. 2) On several combinations of power outage/resets the g setting is wiped in the networking card 3) If the computer is not responsive there is nothing to do Nowadays I only use WOL on a set of computers when I need to do some kind of maintenance on a the weekend and I use PXE to boot them in a special mode to make a low level check. I strongly recommend you to check PIKVM to control that remote computer as it gives you the possibility to enter the bios or attach a virtual cd if you want to reinstall it, for example.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I agree, if my life would depend on it there are better ways. However, if you watched the video till the end, I showed what I do it if it did not run... So far I had no need for a KVM. But if you want to do manitenance, this is a good solution!
@@AndreasSpiess I've watched the entire video as I learn a lot from all of them. I use piKVM in servers that are many miles away and it help me work as I was standing right next to them and I thought it would be a good idea, but now that I think it a bit more, having a raspberry pi running would defeat the purpose of turning the server off to save on electricity.
For the very special instance, where you only want to back up at a fixed time: If your Hardware does not support Wake on LAN, you can set a daily wakeup time on every x86 PC in the BIOS. Another thing: While I am not yet really familiar with ProxMox: Most backup software supports running pre- and post-backup scripts. It seems ProxMox supports 'hook scripts' which can be run after backup is completed.
I asgree, using a BIOS timer could also be a good idea. Keep in mind that the backup job runs on one machine and the shutdown on another one. The second one does not know when all backups are finished.
Thank you for sharing your valuable knowladge. I learn many things from your videos. Today i realised that, i learn many new things also from the comments of your videos. Thanks to your community also.
Super video. Now I'm investing the possibility to send a Wake on Lan signal from a ESP32 or ESP8266. If you let your ESP monitor your network (WAN, WiFi and Home Assistant by ping of MQTT) then you are able to detect if the network is up but Home Assistant is down (in case of a restored power down). If that's the case, I have to boot my HyperV machine which not always turns itself on after a power down. Wake up Lan sended from a ESP should be great for this job :)
Cool! I use Wake Up on Lan to backup several Proxmox servers (with multiple VMs) to a NAS backup sever, but use a cron job to do wake up and shutdown the NAS server.
Dear Andreas, thanks for a great inspiration! I found it maybe easier to shedule the activities using cron instead of standalone services. The only thing you have to pay attention to in this case is to use full paths to the commands (i.e. /bin/wakeonlan instead wakeonlan etc.) but it works like a charm. Have a nice day! Jakub
Andreas - be careful starting a backup server only 3 minutes before the scheduled time - if there are any disk/filesystem issues or checks, they may not be finished before your schedule runs. I'd go with 7 or 10 mins just to be sure, or 20 mins for big spinning disks if the data is vital. I've recently had a NVMe filesytem check (after a power glitch) take almost 8 minutes to complete checks and fixes on a fast 2TB NVMe.
The worst would be that I have a mail in my inbox in the morning about the failed backup and I have to start backup manually… But you can change it of course.
Have the backup server signal to the "production" one when it finished booting up, wait on the production server for this signal before starting the backup
sure if neglect verification jobs, scrub tasks, it's possible, but I'd strongly advise against this approach. It kills all falwors from PBS, which is amazing product. Same with e-mails. I think internal postfix is more than enough.
@@eugenesmirnov252 It all depends on the environment and the kind of data or activities. I'm referring to a data collector system (sensor data and video images) and a database server. At 4 am. in the morning there were no operations going on. Perfect timing...
This is very handy for not encrypted hard drives. Unfortunately if you have encrypted drive and you need to put password to boot it may be not so easy. Anyway. Material as good as always! Thanks Andreas for doing this!
Good tutorial. I have some observations. Not on every machine there is a wake-on-lan capability. Laptops usually don't have it. On some machines with buggy bios/uefi (like HP) wake-on-lan do not work. In your bash script I would consider two changes. "sleep" blocks signals like sigterm, so script itself could block shutting down system for "$interval". Better option is to make function with loop and run sleep couple of times for 1 second at a time. Second small improvement is to check if user is logged on machine before shutdown and block shutdown if it is. (It can be frustrating when machine is powering down when some maintenance is being done). Something like "$(who | awk '{print $1}' | sort | uniq)" - if empty then nobody is logged.
Thank you for the additions. As mentioned, I used the code of somebody else and did not change it. If "sleep" blocks the script, why would adding a loop containing sleep change the situation?
@@AndreasSpiess Perhaps the Advanced tab predates it being a native part of NDIS. It certainly has that legacy OEM property page feel, with its Windows 95 style controls and gray background.
If you’re on the same network I use an ios app called simple wake on lan. It detects the device and has a scan, so it does multiple devices as well (FOSS too with github). My systemd oneshot script frequently does not work (2/9 times it does). My solution is to send two commands when shutting down. I set ethtool to set wol g && systemctl suspend. Works flawlessly!
Hi Andreas! Thanks for sharing - very clear as always 🙂. One question - is the PC in the radio shack is internet facing, or do you use something like tailscale to connect to it from home and send the magic packet? It isn't clear from the video how you manage it, and I am assuming nodered is running on your server at home.
I use WakeOnLan to wake up my home PC when I need to connect to it using a VNC server. I am able to log into my router's SSH terminal from the WAN, and from there send the WOL packet to the computer. The only downside is that there are thousands of Russian and Chinese IP addresses also trying to log into the same SSH terminal every hour.
Nice overview, thank you! A question about your backup software - does it allow executing external command(s) after it finishes? Creates a file somewhere? Or writes a log file which clearly states a'la "Done" when it'd done for this time? If a status file (a lock file?) appears or disappears, that could be used with systemd path units - it can monitor files or directories. Also, you can monitor log files with systemd (requires a simple shell script that tail -f's and greps a logfile).
Hello Adreas, thank you for demystifying and explaining that Topic! Another great and high quality Video of yours! Even if I am aware that this is not part of the scope of the video, I still have a question about the backup: Why did you choose an extra backup server? If i remember correctly proxmox can save backups directly to a NFS Share, so you can use a NAS and still have Production- and Backup-Systems separated. Whats the benefit of your way? Thanks in advance and have great Sunday!
I was using WOL to start my Linux PC sending the packet from the router, however, after working fine for a few months is topped turning off if WOL was enabled, it would power down and reboot. My kludge solution which has so far been working fine was to set it to turn on with AC i.e. switch on if power is lost and restored and then to use a WiFi enabled SmartPlug that I can turn / off remotely. Turn it on PC powers up, finishing doing stuff remotely, check the power draw on the plug has dropped off and turn the power off.
I am not a big fan of UDP, as it is not that secure and is usually prone to IP Spoofing and DDoS attacks. That is one of the first things I did was disable UDP on anything that is connected to my home network. For a remote control as in Andreas' scenario, I would probably use a SwitchBot (which is USB, not sure about the newer versions) sitting on top of the PC to turn it on/off. The remote location would be running Home Assistant on a Raspberry Pi (Linux) in "Bridged" mode and running on a Local VPN from my home network. Ideally, if the remote ISP router has VLAN capabilities I would put the Pi in its own VLAN restricting how the Pi can be accessed (Only via VPN or Local access). A small battery backup would keep the Pi running. I would use a USB dongle (plugged into the Pi) to communicate with the SwitchBot. I would do whatever automatic programming was needed on the remote location's Pi/Home Assistant, and have HA send back SMS messages with the current state after the commands were sent by HA. The closest I came to the above scenario was when we had our RV parked in the GA mountains 500 miles north of us and I had a Pi/Home Assistant in it and communicating over a Pi/VPN. The Pi would send me a lot of unnecessary data like Temp inside/outside, humidity, motion sensors, battery/Solar voltages.... and I could turn on/off lights inside RV remotely to drive the other RVers Crazy, when they knew we were at home in Florida. I had to disable the outside motion sensors in HA because around 2AM in the morning a family of deer would always walk past the RV and activate the outside motion sensor and send me a text. GREAT Video!!
Keep in mind that these things work in your LAN (even if you use VPN). So, UDP is no problem with me. Your proposal works too, but maybe is a bit more complex.
These 1L machines support Intel vPro if you have i5 or i7 CPU that supports it. In this case you have full IPMI/iLO/iDRAC/IMM2 functionality. You can remote install OS, you can start it up and access BIOS. The only difference is that you need dumb display connnector, cause if that PC doesn't detect monitor it simply doesn't output anything on video output. It took me a while to fine the ones that work (not all). But after that these small machines can be used as a servers. I mostly use newer model M900, M910q and M920q. On the last model you can install i9 CPU with 6 core and 64GB which is quite powerful home server running Proxmox. :)
As somebody already mentioned WoL can be not very reliable depending on the network Intel AMT is the opposite. You can use Mesh Commander to control these 1L PCs or use Linux amt software to control it from command line. :)
Hello Andreas, I have a general question: I have a Home Assistant running on a raspberry Pi4 since the corona times, unfortunately because this is not officially supported a lot of the containers stopped working. I already bought a Lenovo PC similar to what you have and I would like to transfer what I can to it but I don't know which VM to use for Home Assistant so I can back up easily and restore in case it crashes. What is your recommendation?
I created a Proxmox VM and installed the standard version of HA. Then I made a backup on the Raspberry and a restore on Proxmox. I think, I made a video about this.
Hi how did you do that remotly? I cannot connect to another location as I do not have public IP and I am behind the CGNAT in both cases. The only way i was able to run that is via old mobil phone using TASKER and plugin of the WOL app. This can be used at home but not in my another location due to need of charging of the phone.
I sorted this a bit different way: PBS is one of my VMs on PVE. So no extra machine is needed for backup. And the storage is the part of TrueNAS, shared to PBS. Even more elegant because no need for any automation ;-)
@@AndreasSpiess funny thing: I just set it up like 2y ago - never used before It is part of big project: LET ME CONTROL MY DATA - "bring back control" if you remember Brexit slogan ;-)
I'm not into proxmox too much, but wouldn't the following be easier: on the controlling machine enter "crontab -e" and add the line "57 0 * * * wakeonlan
I tried WoL but had it fail after an unclean OS shutdown. I went with a Sequent Microsystems 8-relay Pi HAT instead. I wired these to the motherboard headers for the front-panel power switch on each computer to complement a PiKVM and TESmart KVM switch. Close contacts 0.5 second for power on and 5 seconds for power off with the screen in PiKVM to show what is going on.
I use the node red WOL to turn my LG webos tv on. I had to enable it in the configuration of the tv. And it does not work for the first power on after a power out.
For wifi only systems and/or for machines that require passwords to boot, one option is to suspend to ram. I have the same lenovo mini PC as Andreas shows in this video and I use it on wifi only. I suspend it with a script over SSH and I take it out of suspend with a magic packet over wifi. Power consumption is very low. Drivers have some bugs so my suspend config file reloads them automatically after coming out of suspend.
@@AndreasSpiess I also always just assumed that it wouldn't work and I've been in data networking all my life. I too only recently found this out. Somehow it's counter-intuitive that they'd keep a wifi adapter half-alive all the time, but feels more natural to do so with the Ethernet, I don't know why, some brain blind spot I guess :) It does not work on all devices, but when i saw the lenovo thinkcentre in your video I figured I should mention this since that's the exact machine I'm using. I haven't tried WOL from a shutdown state, only from suspend to ram state. It wouldn't work well for me since I need a manual password for the whole disk encryption entered on boot. If BIOS supports it, perhaps WOL works on these machines from a 'powered off' state as well...
Sorry my question, I don't have much experience, but I only to know what software is best to make backups of everything on my computer to an external disk drive. I tried several softwares but they have several problems with windows and never backup every files, they always report some problems during backup, incomplety copies and so on.
There are many possibilities and there is nothing like "the best solution". I for example do not backup my system drive. If it crashes I take the opportunity and create a new installation (including cleanup). All important files are in Dropbox that is automatically synchronized with the cloud. Maybe not for you. So you have to search RU-vid for a method that fits your needs.
I'm not sure if it is a good idea to send magic packets through the internet directly. I suppose you need some device in the LAN that will listen to commands and send the magic packet.
Why exactly “not a good idea”? Security? Yes, a proxy is always possible and if you know, you put a firewall rule to only accept such request from the IP address you want!
@@pepeshopping Security and reliability. I wasn't even aware of the possibility to send the magic paket through the internet as it operates on lower network level. If there is a device doing the proxy work, it could just "push" the power button with a relay.
I'm curious why the backup task runs via time instead of on a successful boot? Feels like it would be just as easy for there to be a script that runs the backup on startup. Then you are less likely to run into weird edge cases.
@@AndreasSpiess Nowadays you enable PCIe wake up, and then you have to configure it in the network card. Some time ago there where NIC's that store this setting permanently and even some that had dip switches.
Hi Andreas! I use this tiny PC-s too. IT has a handy feature. On the back one USB is marked with a keyboard sign. If you plug in a keyboard to that USB port or a receiver from a wireless keyboard, you can power it on with the Alt+P key combination. I have one built in under my TV as a media PC with a wireless keyboard mouse combo. I use Mikrotik routers too, and they have wake on lan function too. I write a script in a router with the wol command and the MAC address, so i dont have to type in the MAC address evry time. Then i connect to my router, and can wake up the PC by running the script. Thank you for the videos, they are awesome.
Left Alt or Right Alt... you know, I ask bcs when I work on infoline 20y ago a old person travel between Phone and PC bcs insted Press L_Alt+F4 he pressing R_Alt + F + 4 xD to close current window who have a close X on right/top corner but he use a 650x480 crt and not see that big window xD
Some Windows machine not work when they are shutdown from Windows, they must be additional PowerOff from GRID for minute and then Grid back then wol can run a PC. Probably some S state are reason. Win10/11 destroy WOL feature.
@@AndreasSpiess My Win10 after shutdown do a Link Down on ether port. After re-power from grid a ether go up on 10Mb and wait for WOL who can be send from local MikroTik. I use a wifi socket to just on 30s do grid off .
You tried to mask your mac address visible, however at time 5:04 in the video, it remained visible in the sniffer output. Above the 16 repetitions of mac.
@@pepeshopping i know, but as Andreas invested lot efforts to mask the full mac address appearances throughout the whole video, he may have reason for it.
I use wol with node red and it works flawlessly, unless after a power outage, after this, it won't be able to turn on the pc. I am still trying to make an esp connected to pc button in order to make it switch even after a power outage
I have most of my computers and other Ethernet devices participating in WOL since 2000. One machine is problematic and I see the packet hit the interface but it does not wake. Do USB Ethernet devices support WOL?
Theoretically it is possible for USB device to wake up a PC. However you'd need to first make sure that the USB remain powered when the PC is powered down or suspended.
I configured Wake on LAN too, but ended using rtcwake to avoid having to write scripts to handle turning on, waiting, doing backup and then shutdown. Now my secondary servers only come on in the afternoon/evening to get/send replications.
You know, Andreas, if you were production say in Autumn 40.2 KW a day you could leave it running. The video is coming soon. There is no gold detecting today. But I got a gram of 100 per gold coming from ram. I collected over the past 5 years. You always put up stuff I need just in time - jit.
I suppose with 10 minutes to perform the back up, you're okay... for now. But I wonder how your schedule of 1:00 a.m. integrates with daylight savings time adjustments. In Switzerland, your adjustment times are 2:00 a.m. and 3:00 a.m. As your computer empire grows, so will back-up times, you may want to consider starting everything after 3:10 a.m. and avoid any possible entanglement daylight savings time adjustments might introduce. A thorough analysis of my point may prove my concern unwarranted... but "we like to keep things simple," changing the start time of your back-up to a window beyond the daylight savings times adjustment might avoid any problem the Promox back-up software and/or your systems might encounter should back-ups be in progress longer than you originally determined. I cannot imagine trying to design software to handle a back-up during a daylight-savings time adjustment when times magically change. Were I a company offering such a service, I finesse the entire issue and recommend software backups do not occur where there is a risk of running into the adjustment time window.
There is no problem if you set it up properly! Do not schedule anything using daylight savings time! Simply schedule using STANDARD time and done. Example: Do not use EDT or EST, just use ET!
There is one thing I should bring up with PBS. This will work fine for normal backups on a schedule but don't forget about garbage collection and verification. Those two jobs can take a long time to run.
i had a machine running torrent client 24/7 once , and i had a program that capture magic packets , and it was capturing such packets ,even if i did not send them . are those packets possible to come from an unauthorized sources ? then , i was thinking that torrent data might every now and then include in random , sequence of data that express the magic data algorithm .
The required format of the magic packet (six bytes of all ones, followed by sixteen copies of the six-byte MAC address) is deliberately designed to make it highly unlikely for this to happen by chance. But even if an unauthorized source outside your network managed to get the correct 102 bytes into a packet on your network, they would still have difficulty getting it to the target host, if the latter is powered off. They can't explicitly direct it to that host's MAC address, since they could only do that from within the same subnet. If they simply send it to the target host's IP address, this will normally only work if the host was very recently powered off, such that the relevant IP-to-MAC mapping hasn't yet aged out of the ARP cache on the last-hop router. If they try sending to the subnet's broadcast IP address, this is likely to fail, because in general routers are configured by default to drop subnet-directed broadcasts, because they can be dangerous. In summary, unless you've taken special steps to make wake-on-LAN work to your hosts from outside your network, the only way an outside attacker is likely to be able to make it work is sending frequent packets to the target's IP address, at a shorter interval than your router's ARP cache timeout. And of course you can still firewall those packets.
@@SheeplessNW6 i can remember if the magic packet capture software had a port setting on it , or it just picked the string of data that represented the wake up call
Hi i want to remote machine on which ip is (192.168.31.2) from my local machine which ip is (192.168.8.93) how to do this using wakeonlan? is it possible?
Hi Andreas, I wish for you the bests. I should be tanking to you because most of your diy solutions help me to understanding the electronics and find the better way in to electronics circuits design. I need to make diy high power laser source for my self use, but I need to make my own laser diode and laser pump, but before I had made Buck converter with pwm out put and i tested on one 10 watt laser diode, if i can made my own laser diode at home I can make many laser array of bar for many solutions. because of that I need your help to find a very cheap solutions to reach my goals. One of them is making a DIY fiber laser cutter and fiber laser welder. Please show me some way if you have that before or if not please make it for us, because it go to help each men for rising them self in the high tech with beter understanding electronics manufacturing. Have nice time and best regards. Thanks. Farbod D'Jam
I'm still waiting for this feature to be implemented natively into routers. I ping or try to access an IP address, and if there is no response, the router pulls the MAC address and sends the magic packet to it. To answer someone else's problem: a sleeping or hibernating computer can still have an encrypted drive decrypted after wake or boot.
This is excellent however 3 minutes to turn on the remote server relies on both clocks being the same the wake up server and the back up server. What happens if the clocks drift from one another such as the back up server's clock is 5 minutes earlier so when started wlil it do the back ups?
@@tonysheerness2427 it's not strictly necessary for the backup server to have an Internet connection. It just needs to be able to connect to an NTP server, which could be on your local network. I run an NTP server on my always-on home server (in turn synchonised to one or more servers outside my network), and other hosts on my network talk NTP to that local server only. Even if you run a totally isolated network, there is still value in running a local NTP server. If its clock is free-running, without any accurate reference, it will of course drift, but often "agreed time" is more important than "accurate time" (i.e. keeping all your hosts in sync, even if they're out of sync with the outside world).
@@tonysheerness2427no! My main and bkp firewalls do get NTP updates from the Internet and then provide NTP services to the LANs. Even with the internet down, all servers and clients would have the same time.
I agree, you ahve to have synchronized clocks for the shutdown timer. After another comment I changed it and start the autoshutdown after the boot of the backup server. Like hat, no synchronization between systems is needed.
Worst thing happened at remote server. Linux boot demanded that I execute fsck "manually". How this stupid crap is not fixed already? This should be in /etc/default/grub by default: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=" fsck.mode=force fsck.repair=yes ".
@@peppigue if you enable Bitlocker, the usual case is that there's a boot PIN or Password required to start the OS. If nothing is entered, the PC usually just shutsdown again.
Problem with sleep is if there is a power outage while in sleep: The machine is not “listening” to the USB or network UPS monitoring and could lose power while sleeping (not good), if the UPS shutdown when depleted. Hibernation can work, but I don’t want to have to use few more GB in storage for the hibernation file. The extra minute or two from cold boot is nothing compared to the 8-16 hours fully powered off.
On wifi wake also working sometimes, but not all adapters can, and this windows-only feature. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wg9YFAVweiM.html
