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4K textures are USELESS! 

Visual Tech Art
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In this video we take a look at how textures are optimized inside game engines, what MIP Maps are and, most importantly, how we can customize them.
Even though I bring the example of DDS files and Unreal Engine, this tech is used in every real time engine and videogame.
The texture I show in this video is extremely useful for every environment and character artist who wants to be sure the content they create is performant.
You can get the MagicTexture™ here: jumpeter.gumroad.com/l/Textur...
Link to the NVidia plug-in for Photoshop: developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-t...
Discord: / discord
Patreon: / visualtechart

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11 фев 2023

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Комментарии : 61   
@cedric7751
@cedric7751 Год назад
Roughness on human skin requires custom mipmaps too. From close, the human skin is fairly smooth but if you keep a low roughness at a distance, the skin will appear glossy. You can solve it in shaders (at a cost of extra instructions), or for free in mipmaps by increasing the roughness value in lower mips.
@wpwscience4027
@wpwscience4027 Год назад
How do you read out what mip you are on to tell the roughness to use different rules?
@cedric7751
@cedric7751 Год назад
@@wpwscience4027 Mostly eyeballing and adjusting if you got it wrong. Let's say that your base roughness is at 0.2, you could add 0.1 of roughness on each mipmap level until it reaches 1 and you try it in game. If the skin becomes too rough too quickly, you add 0.05 instead of 0.1 and try again, if it becomes shiny, add 0.15 instead. It shouldn't take you more than 2-3 adjustments to get it right.
@ZacDonald
@ZacDonald Год назад
Composite textures help with this with less effort.
@MaxPuliero
@MaxPuliero 7 месяцев назад
even the SSS calculated in screenspace should be addressed in some way, I usually use a distance node, no need to waste time on making the mipmaps manually.
@Mireneye
@Mireneye Год назад
This reminds me ever so slightly of the method they used in Ghost of Tsushima to analyze a scene for how grainy it's normals and albedos are, so they could homogenize some of the visual look and make it less noisy and easier on the eyes. Very cool trick! I typically eyeball after what I think is important objects and things I want to keep as focal points and if I end up with too many props getting downgraded I sometimes stop and re-evaluate if I have to create some specific shader variant that use less textures samples and share more of them. So the cost comes out at least the same. Preferably cheaper.
@neo-giu
@neo-giu Год назад
Best use I've seen for custom mipmaps is the water in super mario sunshine, very creative usage
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt Год назад
Can you link me an example? :O
@therealmpk7651
@therealmpk7651 Год назад
@@VisualTechArt ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Ipsd6rYj6Mk.html
@coolguy-xb2yn
@coolguy-xb2yn Год назад
​@@VisualTechArt ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-exp1Yrxt50A.html
@PrivacyEnt
@PrivacyEnt Год назад
@@VisualTechArt ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-exp1Yrxt50A.html its here in digital foundry!! It's quite cool really, back in my modding days for trackmania, we were using this for pearlescent/iridescent cars as well, where every mip is a different color
@asdfsfdcccc23423
@asdfsfdcccc23423 Год назад
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Ipsd6rYj6Mk.html God, it's amazing usage of mipmap
@YuuJer
@YuuJer Год назад
never knew how to make these! so cool! I saw a youtube video where they broke down the snowflakes in one of the mario games, where the closer the particle, the more snowflake shaped it looked. and smaller mips were round masks
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt Год назад
Ah that's a nice idea! Thanks for sharing :D
@jeggie
@jeggie Год назад
This video is very informative about how to use and manipulate mipmaps in Unreal, however I'm confused about the utility of the texture you created. How does using the material you provided differ from simply using the Required Texture Resolution view mode?
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt Год назад
I'll double check because I'm not 100% sure of what I'm about to say, but: the View Mode is basically a Post Process that shows you some stuff, but it doesn't have direct access to every single material you have in the scene. Meaning that if you have some weird UV mapping, triplanar etc, it won't account for that. With this texture you can visualize exactly what a specific texture slot is doing in your specific material instance, in your specific mesh :)
@vitordelima
@vitordelima 8 месяцев назад
@@VisualTechArtYou create one DDS file for each typical screen resolution and try to approximate when there are more texels than what can be rendered by the screen (for example a 4K texture at MIP map level 0 being rendered in 1080p looks the same as a 2K texture in the worst case of a flat surface in front of the screen or even less in any other case).
@Tylru
@Tylru Год назад
Just wondering - You show the Mip Bias, but does "Maximum Texture Size" (I forget the exact name) also scrap the higher resolution mips when building? We've been using this to set a maximum size lower than the imported texture size, but now I'm wondering if it's actually a good thing to do?
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt Год назад
I think they should have a similar effect :)
@wpwscience4027
@wpwscience4027 Год назад
Try it out with his texture, that's my plan.
@OverJumpRally
@OverJumpRally Год назад
Same question! I guess changing the Mip Bias is easier to do fi you apply different ones on different Scalability settings.
@analogsamurai9576
@analogsamurai9576 Год назад
You have a 980ti? The constraints you are working on are good actually, you remember that things should run on lower end systems and there are illusionary ways to pull it off that many devs forget
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt Год назад
Yes, I personally find much more fun to make things for much slower hardware ahahah unless I'm purely focusing on the art side :) But to to be honest I'm really starting to feel the need for an upgrade, especially since I moved to UE5, that engine is not made to make things run faster :D
@wpwscience4027
@wpwscience4027 Год назад
Ok, ideas requested: use one of your mips that you aren't using for channel packing crap you don't have an easy way to bring in without an extra texture sample. Then be like skip this mip for doing stuff but grab this mip for your opacity mask or metallic or ao or whatever map you didn't have room for.
@Mireneye
@Mireneye Год назад
Man.. I've dreamed of using MipMaps this way but I could never find a way to sample that way (with my.. somewhat limited shader knowledge).
@Tylru
@Tylru Год назад
Also, I'm wondering - The packed Mipmaps texture (being double width minus 1px), all of that empty space... I wonder if there is a way to make use of that texture space? Is it possible to sample the packed mipmap texture including it's excess space? I doubt there is, but it feels like a good opportunity to experiment with channel packing/masks. Even without the excess space, could you potentially force the material to discard the first mip level, and use that as a separate three-channel mask? Just thinking, something like... 0 = 4k albedo 1 = 2k Rough/Metallic/AO 2+ = 1k or less albedo mips Or if the albedo wasn't that important, you could potentially put the masks in the 4k / highest mip level, and reassemble srgb in the material for the 2k mip level albedo
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt Год назад
That would be great! But I don't know if internally those MIPs are actually stored in that way! It may also become a sort of texture array without any empty space, it would be cool to check!
@Phimue
@Phimue 3 месяца назад
This is probably a bit late, but all this "empty" space doesn't exist in the exported texture, only in the photoshop file where all the mipmaps are layed out in a row in a single area. The .dds texture contains each of the mipmaps in their actual size with no additional data. You know this because of the file size: a .dds texture with mipmaps is (almost) exactly 1/3 bigger than one without, and the additional 1/3 comes from adding up the relative sizes of the mipmap levels: 1/4 + 1/16 + 1/64 and so on.
@toapyandfriends
@toapyandfriends Год назад
Can you automate this whole process like mipmap creation automatically for any texture like really go through and see how much of this you can automate make it closer to unreal engine... nanite but for textures
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt Год назад
Not sure I understood, the MIPS are already automatically created and used by the Engine when you import a texture in!
@toapyandfriends
@toapyandfriends Год назад
@@VisualTechArt I meant for your addon in blemder
@alxleiva
@alxleiva Год назад
Great stuff thanks!
@IstyManame
@IstyManame 4 месяца назад
does it work for TSR and other upscalers? i saw it changes value when you change resolution but TSR looks pretty much as 100% at 80%
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt 4 месяца назад
Upscalers render the image at a lower res, so MIPS are used accordingly anyways :) If you change dynamically the resolution then deciding what's the texture size you actually need will be a bit more tricky
@IstyManame
@IstyManame 4 месяца назад
@@VisualTechArt gotcha
@josephfrye7342
@josephfrye7342 Месяц назад
hmm well that's odd the texture is in highest quality already but i think it's the monitour or projector 4k quality no matter which circuit or components are.
@MaxPuliero
@MaxPuliero 7 месяцев назад
why do you want to make the mipmaps manually? and why don't use just virtual texture that perform already very good on current a hardware?
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt 7 месяцев назад
The point of the video was to show you that you have a way to know exactly the resolution of the texture you need on a surface, and that applies to VTs too, if you create one starting from that custom MIP texture I did, so you don't risk occupying virtual pages without a real need :) Plus, there are cases in which you need custom MIPs, because not always you want just a simple downsample at reduced screen sizes
@MaxPuliero
@MaxPuliero 7 месяцев назад
@@VisualTechArt yes you are right, sorry for the stupid comment. I used to work with DDS back in the days, fortunately we had a custom tool to convert regular TGA into DDS. Ancient times! :D Also I noticed that when you scaled the DDS in Photoshop you got an antialiasing problem on the border, I think there is an option to preserve alpha when scaling, I think. Anyway, informative video as always.
@ethanwasme4307
@ethanwasme4307 Год назад
when you say "scrap", will 4k textures when compiled to a 1k texture save on disk data, or would you still wanna replace the 4k with 1k towards the end of production?
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt Год назад
As far I know a 4K texture with a MIP Bias of 2 will be converted to a 1K texture in the build :)
@ethanwasme4307
@ethanwasme4307 Год назад
@@VisualTechArt that's so cool!
@Punisher1992
@Punisher1992 Год назад
i use 256 usually.... for big bosses 512 thats all, i think i dont need that, but its still awesome for non ps2 projects xD
@TorQueMoD
@TorQueMoD 3 месяца назад
I was thinking about how useless 4K textures are the other day, especially in a PBR workflow. You pretty much never need an albedo higher than 1k. I think 1K for albedo, 2k for RMAO and 2k for normals, with an occasional exception for a 4K normal map on a hero asset is all you ever need. And my God, would artists please stop making meshes with 10+ textures! So unoptimized.
@thegreendude2086
@thegreendude2086 Год назад
You could do some very trippy stuff with this. Oh what's this in the distance? An apple tree? Wrong! It's a meat sculpture!
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt Год назад
Ahahahah definitely!
@musikalniyfanboichik
@musikalniyfanboichik Год назад
I love your channel 🤗
@mazbauddinmasfi
@mazbauddinmasfi Год назад
Which game it is?
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt Год назад
UE sample scene
@phalhappy8612
@phalhappy8612 Год назад
make it for Blender too please xD
@PayxiGandia
@PayxiGandia Год назад
interesting
@Healcraft
@Healcraft Год назад
this guy sounds like microsoft sam
@locklear308
@locklear308 21 день назад
I'm sorry but there is no reason not to use 4k textures if not higher ones. Honestly, we need to stop using resolution and use PPI/DPI with 400 being the goal.
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt 20 дней назад
Nope, DPI are for prints, here we're looking at digital images, which have the resolution of the screen they're being rendered on :) So we think in texel density terms, which ideally should match the closest view you can possibly have of your texture during gameplay. And of course, if you have huge assets with bespoke textures, you're likely forced to go higher in resolution, that can be fine for a demo, for architectural visualization and so on... For games, meh, not as much if you care about performances :)
@locklear308
@locklear308 19 дней назад
@@VisualTechArt DPI/PPI are still basically the same concept, how many dots/points/pixels per inch. Even still, if you used the "closest" idea for textures, then they would be FAR higher than 4k which is my point. Messuring in resolution doesn't indicate quality, even 4k can be less sharp if it is on a huge screen. Hence, I go by PPI.
@ACABROCKY
@ACABROCKY Год назад
So basicly this won't work for AMD users? :(
@wpwscience4027
@wpwscience4027 Год назад
I didn't get that impression, just that maybe you can't make your own, but neither can peasants like me who live outside the fiefdom of lord photoshop.
@VisualTechArt
@VisualTechArt Год назад
Sadly you need Cuda for that plugin :( Maybe there are other tools I'm not aware of
@Ebani
@Ebani Год назад
Just like most other gpu related stuff, it is what it is 🤷‍♂️
@Phimue
@Phimue 3 месяца назад
@@wpwscience4027You absolutely can do this with GIMP. It comes with a dds plugin that can import mipmaps as layers, which then can be edited separately and then exported again with the setting "Use existing mipmaps".
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