5 Locomotive Types That Should Have Been Preserved | History in the Dark 

I’m 100% betting that Perlman will show up in the middle of the third segment.

As much as it sucks the Niagara’s and Hudson’s were all scrapped, to say not even a Hudson can’t be rebuilt from scratch is not hard to think. The Steam Rebuilds in the UK and the new Pennsy T1 being rebuilt from the ground up shows that perhaps something could happen. But of course with everything preservation, the money is the big issue. Plus you need to find the right folks who know what they are doing, having a set business plan, finding the places to actually reconstruct the boiler, engine frame, drive wheels, etc. finding any steel refinery that could possibly fabricate the locomotive, having a spot to house and facilitate any new locomotive and so much more.

14:23 - 16:34 Just seeing ONE of these Austerity 2-8-0's survive brought tears to my eyes because of this overwhelming sensation of joy. *I am currently sobbing with joy while writing this*

I wish at least one Western Maryland J-1 Potomac was saved. They were the last line to adopt the 4-8-4 wheel arrangement and some were in service for less than a decade. Also a Milwaukee Road class A Hiawatha 4-4-2 and Seaboard Air Line class R-2 2-6-6-4.

You actually made a good point with Perlman. He understood the sense of preservation, (Hands why he donated 2933.) but they couldn't do that, cuz their position was terrible. Also, No. 1 made me sob. One of the most touching finals you ever made. Continue to be amazing... Like the big engine.^^

Fun fact: The S1 was invited to the 1939 New York World's Fair before it went into service. When it arrived at the fair, the Pennsylvania logo was replaced with American Railroads and when it was on display, they had roller bearings underneath the drive wheels. That means it was steamed up & operate while on display.

Fun fact for ya Dark, Pug from the Railway Series is actually based on the LMS Kitson saddle tanks, the the first batch, not the second. And if you look him up, you'll find that one gorgeous model of him in trainz with that pure face that says, "Oh hiya im pug what's your name?" It really adds to the adorable factor the class already has.

that last one truely hurts... nearly 1000 built in total and we get freaking 1?!?! seriously? then again it does kinda make sense at the same time. there were just so many icons of different british railways pre-merger that needed saving post dieselisation and not all of them wouldve been lucky enough to end up in that one fever dream of a scrapyard that enabled the saving of just so many iconic engines. theres only so much money and time volunteers can round up and it was unfortunately bound to happen that some would be lost to time.

That's a real solid list!! Let me think, uhhmmm, I can think of 4 off the top of my head that I wish were preserved but weren't (in no particular order): 1. Western Maryland 4-8-4 Potomac 2. PRR 2-10-4 J1 3. Western Maryland 4-6-6-4 Challenger 4. New York Central H10 Mikado

IIIIII - WAAAAANT - THAAAAT - STEEEAAAAM - ENGINEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!

Legendary Barry quote: “I don’t know how I still have my job!”

Looking at the description, I do not think HITD has ever found out that the Erie did not preserve A SINGLE ONE of their locomotives.

I waited for thst list buddy! Some I already know. Hope I ever see the ALCO C855. KITSON 0-4-0?! YEEEEES!!!!!!!!!! I love these babies!!! Pug from Thomas & Friends is one.

MN&S 21 (the Blue Dragon) is a Lima transfer engine stored operational at IRM. Always puts on a good show.

Although I'm Dutch, I didn't know that one of the WD consolidations ended up being preserved. I have a book describing all classes of the Nederlandse Spoorwegen, NS, and this does indeed state that two were sold to Sweden, but as the book was printed before one of these returned to the UK I didn't know of this fact. So it turns out that of all the WD and USATC locomotive classes that did run in the Netherlands there is at least one preserved example, the WD 2-8-0 and 2-10-0 tender engines and the 0-6-0 saddle tank, and the S-100 0-6-0 and S-160 2-8-0 of the USATC. One S-100, one WD 2-10-0 and a couple of 0-6-0 saddle tanks in the Netherlands itself, and the remainder in the UK in one or several examples. The S-100 and one WD 0-6-0 are operational. The 2-10-0 in the Netherlands is named Longmoor which was the name of the training complex for military railway staff in the UK. Arrived from the US about 5 years ago has a Whitcomb USATC diesel, which was also acquired by NS after the war in 18 examples which ran as series 2000 from 1946 until 1960. This locomotive is currently under restoration in the form it did ran here. On the original locomotive the unreliable Buda engines were replaced with Dutch Thomassen engines, don't know if the imported one has its engines replaced in the US, but it came on GE44 tonner trucks, original bogies were sourced in Italy.

@HistoryintheDark It shouldn't surprise me if you ever had a nightmare of a lion that had train wheels for paws that was eating up steam locomotives, popping bad Diesel locos out of it's rear end, and was on a leash held by Dr. Beeching, who all the while is on the phone with Alfred Perlman, discussing scraping steam locomotives. Joke aside, good video! 👍

What can I say? Absolutely awesome choices, Darkness, and as always, top notch research. 10 out of 10. Best regards, Richard from Worthing, UK.

Great episode. So sad about the cute engines. Tough life for them, some of them never even got to live in the round house cause the big engines were jerks, and now this?😢

I 100% agree with the PRR S1, it may have been a failure, but it was also a success, and was one of the largest engines in the world. It should've been preserved.

The only locomotives that I wanted to be preserved is 5 NYC Niagaras, 4 NYC Hudsons, the Illinois Central's Streamliners lole the City of Miami 9 Erie Berkshires, 4 Pere Marquette Berkshires and lastly is the streamlined PRR K4 and the C&O steam turbine.

I think should’ve preserved the most of the B&O especially the EM-1.

Any Erie steam locomotive. Even more of a black hole than the Central, because they were even more cash starved than them. The nicknamed "Weary Erie" was perpetually on the financial edge, which is why they embraced Dieselization very early and needed the scrap steel money from the steam fleet to pay for modernization. They didn't even save the historic steam locomotive they had set aside for their 100th anniversary. Yes, we have other examples of Van Sweringen Berkshires, but none of their K-5 Heavy Pacifics survived, and they were pretty much the only railroad to purchase USRA Heavy Pacifics, so a major gap in historic railroad preservation there.

Chainsaw Alf has returned, hide your steam locos!

I was looking forward to one of these for a long time and am glad hes making it.

Got a small fun fact regarding the WD Consolidations (hey, I prefer using arrangement names rather than numbers) that I learned from Flying Scott in his video about ex-WD engines, namely that the Dutch examples got the nickname of "Jeeps". "Little Jeep" for the Consolidations and "Big Jeep" for the Decapods.

I’d bet money a Lima switcher is in the port of Houston’s one of the thousand rail served industries down there. When anyone says liverys are extinct or a loco model type only has X amount remaining, just drive through the highways that weave through the port, I can assure you everything you can think of is there. There’s several 40’s Baldwin switchers within about a 10 mile radius that I’ve seen in many of the chemical plants.

From what I was told alot of the wd 8fs ran by BR was run into the ground, as nearer the end , basic maintenance wasn't done. There was a couple in Turkey including the bigger wd 2-10-0 aka the mobile bed pans !. And one of the 8fs has been homed in Scotland.

Apparently the PRR was going to preserve 6100, but the order to scrap her arrived before the order to save her

I really think one that should be on this list is the CNJ G3s Pacific, ordered initially for use on the Blue Comet service prior to it being terminated. I just think they're a really unique engine and at least one of them should've survived into preservation (which one apparently was, however my source on this is forums and word of mouth, which is almost the same as "I made it the f*** up"), that said I hope someday a group will come along and build a new one given the blueprints are still around iirc

Thank you for putting chapters into the video so I could skip ahead to the stuff I find more interesting rather than skipping blindly. I appreciate that consideration.

Vicrail s classes, spirit of progress v1. Definitely worthy to keep in hindsight.

Looking at the backdrop, and 2 new york central engines, it's likely to be, CHAINSAWGEDDON!

The Lima Hamilton examples are my pick along with the NYC Hudson obviously. Oddly enough three Lima diesels are with NYC 0-6-0 6894 at the Whitewater Valley Railroad.

A lovely, and rather sad video, thank you - just to let you know that the correct pronounciation of the railway 90733 is based at is "Keith-Lee & Worth Valley"" (to be fair, it throws a lot of people, I worked with a South African who called it Keg-Lee...), while the Works the 2nd batch of 'Kitson STs' were built at was pronounced "Hor-Rich" (again, it's a North of England thing). Keep up your remarkable work, sir, it's really appreciated.

Peak Hudson preservation would have to be the Victorian Railways of Australia with seven R class Hudsons preserved and four in working order. Perhaps trying to make amends for scrapping all four of the S class three cylinder streamlined Pacific locomotives that Darkness covered a while back. The operational ones currently are R707, R711, R761 and R766. Being operational a search for these on RU-vid will show many videos of each. Sometimes double headed or even triple headed Hudson power. A search for Flying Scotsman Triple should show the 1989 visit where a triple parallel run of the visiting Flying Scotsman and two R class performed a parallel run, with each on their own track of the Melbourne to Albury mainline.

Unless you want to count the NdeM 4-8-4's that were built to the design of the NYC Niagara's but slightly smaller...at least according to some people.

Do a series on this subject! We like your series...honestly, we do! Keithley is pronounced keeth-lee by the way ;)

More engines from the Glasgow & South Western Railway would be nice, since the only locomotive remaining from that line is an 0-6-0 tank engine, which is on display at the Riverside museum in Glasgow.

I am bringing up Rio Grande 688 as it was the 2nd to last surviving DRGW steam engine and still got scrapped in 1978 so now we just have 683

The S1 was so powerful that HHP would boss her around, if not even a Toaster.

I love the Rock island R67b 4-8-4s also the Alco DL109 were beautiful. ITS A SHAME WE DON'T HAVE MORE CNW STEAM

There was one last class 21 that was so close to being preserved

There’s a WD 2-8-0 on the North Norfolk Railway, fully operational numbered 90775 and renamed recently from The Royal Norfolk Regiment to Earl Haig. It never actually ran for BR but is identical to the main batch.

The 2 I regret never got saved and the decision happened under the same organization. Both operated in the Chicago area. In the early 70s Chicago & Northwestern was piwer short and looking to free up some of the F units for use in freight service purchased a bunch of surplus UP B units, shipped them off to the former Chicago Great Western Olwein Iowa shops where a full cab was built on the hostler control end that actually kind of resembled the modern crew cabs. They were fugly beasts and crews said they were drafty in winter and the sheet steel of the cab end fabrication could have done with some more bracing as flexing from the steel at speed made it like being inside a dumpster with someone banging on it. RTA took over Chicago commuter operations in 1977 and by 1982 or 83 sufficient F40phs had arrived for the Crandall cabs ( named for the CNW head of mechanical department whose brain child they were) to be sent off to the dead line and scrapped. The other was the Rock Island AB6. Originally built as a full cab E6 B unit for the Rockey Mountain Rocket the AB6 was built to handle the full Rocket from Chicago to where the two sections would separate to different destinations rather than keep a locomotive on site to tie on to the Colorado section of the Rocket the A unit would cut off and the AB would be crewed and the Colorado section would pull away, the A unit would tie back on and continue to it's destination. Rock Island got Pullman Standard and Budd bilevels and rather than get new power the cash strapped Rock Island selected some of the older less dependable on long distance trains and converted them to HEP service. This meant during the 60s and 70s Rock Island's commuter service was a literal working museum. With the formation of the RTA in 77 and unbeknownst to us the RI less than 3 years from oblivion the new locomotives and rolling stock went to retire a lot of the Rock's museum pieces with at least the Rock's E6,the former bicentennial E8 and the fleet of 1920s Harriman " Caponeliner " coaches all went off to museums while the one of a kind AB6 was sent off to scrap.

I wish at least one of the Milwaukee Road Hiawathas were preserved.

The fact no Claud Hamiltons were preserved is crazy to me. Same with any class that was produced into the hundreds. Somehow, all of them were scrapped despite the odds that maybe _one_ would get lucky.

well at least we have 2 New York Central Mohawks still around 3001 and 2933

May god bless the the WD 2-8-0s, in their all their Robert Riddles Simplified 8F GLORY.

One Loco that I think should've been saved was South Australian Railways (SAR) 500B class locomotive No. 500. The 500B was the most powerful steam locomotive to operate on the SAR and it would've been great to have it preserved or even running. unfortunately it was scrapped and the only remaining 500B is 504 on static display at the National Railway Museum.

I'm gonna throw out one that deserves more preservation and could potentially still get it: the Baldwin RF-16. There's only two of them left and they're both in pretty sorry shape right now, having been left to rot for years after an engine failure. It's still entirely possible for them to get the restoration and preservation they deserve, they're currently owned by a small railroad that has a fondness for Baldwin diesels and has expressed a desire to turn them over to a museum.

We did save her larger brother, Austerity WD 2-10-0 "Longmoor", it is at the railway museum in Utrecht.

Lima's Diesels were basically Dollar store Alco's and Baldwins

I’m surprised Hornby hasn’t made a model of the Kitson 0F. They love 0-4-0Ts.

My top 5 choices: 1. New York Central Hudson 2. New York Central Niagara 3. Lackawanna Pocono 4. Erie K-1 Pacific 5. LNER B17

Btw, why don't you do a video on the Virginia & Truckee 20 Tahoe. That locomotive was active in WW2 building classification yards for the USATC despite being built in 1875.

For me its the peppercorn A1. Beautiful locos. Luckily tornado exists so thats good

My 1# favourite is the Locomotive the Milwaukee Road Class F7 and out the 6 that were produced none of them survived into preservation

The Ingalls 4-S, she was a champ.

The problem with preservation of locomotives is that some are unglamorous, such as the Dubdees, and some aren't steam, like the Lima diesels, and sometimes they are to many loco votives being withdrawn at once, like at the end of steam in the UK.

Great Video. If you are planning a follow up, check out the Bavarian State Railway’s “Gt 2×4/4”, later known as Deutsche Reichsbahn Class 96. Very sad that none survived. Also a lost german Engine ist the “Württembergische C” from the Württemberg State Railway.

Totally agree on the S-1. Gorgeous locomotive. I would have particularly liked to have seen a NYC J class Hudson preserved because my dad gave me a Marx HO model of one as my first model train when I was 4 years old. I would also have liked to have seen a Baldwin Centipede preserved. Not the most successful engine of all time but I always thought they were cool.

It's not something I've dedicated research to, but I recall that the Caledonian Railway - which ran at least a sizeable chunk of Scotland's lines up to the 1923 Grouping - only has a few preserved locomotives, possibly as few as 2 if I remember correctly, out of the entire fleet.

About the WD Austerities there's also the 2-10-0 version of them, of which 8 are preserved with 3 in the UK.

I thought #1 was gonna be the PRR T1, considering how you've said it's one of your favorite steam engines before.

Some American engines I think should have been preserved, the Milwaukee Road S1 and S2 class 4-8-4 Northerns, a Milwaukee Road F7 Hudson, Milwaukee Road A Class Atlantic, any of the Northern Pacific A Series 4-8-4’s (it doesn’t matter which class, other than the A3 class as SP&S 700 is basically a NP A3 class but built as an oil burner), DMIR P Class 4-6-2, SP GS-1, SP GS-2, and SP GS-3.

Hey dark I was curious for your next video that you can make a video about newly built steam locomotives and stuff and your thoughts on it and how it happened.

The lms kitson 0-4-0 is also the basis of a railway series character Rip pug You appeared in 1 book and never again

of course there's just 4 surviving Lima diesels and guess what, 3 of the four are at the whitewater valley railroad and 2 of the 3 are actually operational believe it or not

Ireland in general should have had more steam engines preserved. We have no MGWR, CBSCR or DNGR locos left, only one DSER, one SLNCR, one BCDR, two NCC, 4 GNRI, 5 GSWR, and one GSR left. And ntm nearly all of them are sole survivors.

going off the description GET THIS MAN A TRUE

You should do a separate video on steam & diesels.

Well in my model railroad’s universe, one of the New York Central’s J3a Hudsons would’ve been preserved.

I agree, with this list. But there is one locomotive, that I truly miss. The Baldwin Centipede! No one is preserved in USA or in Mexico. Never saw one!

The wd austerity is currently without a boiler and is requesting £150000 to be rebuilt

I feel like the Lima diessals were on the list to prove he is not being steam focused

JANUARY 31 IS MY BIRTHDAY! I HAVE THE SAME BIRTHDAY AS THE PRR S1?!?!?😮

For the life of me For what the S1, the Hudsons and the Niagras are worth to Eastern and national railway history cannot understand why they didn't preserve a single one. The Pensy and the NYC are such iconic railways for steam....but they scrapped by far some of the most popular steam locomotives ever made. Damn the Penncentral merger I'm also rather sad a UP Veranda Turbine was never preserved, they were such a unique locomotive

Oh great here we go again

Well, thing is, when it came to the New York Central Hudsons and Niagaras, it wasn't _just_ from a business viewpoint. Perlman was just *_really_* anti-preservation. The Smithsonian, yes, THE SMITHSONIAN(the museum that houses important artifacts from America's history?) asked for J1e #5344 for its historical significance, with major points such as being the first streamlined steam locomotive in the US _and_ the basis for Lionel's 700E Super Hudson(which was the first *true* model locomotive, it was *_insanely_* detailed for the 1930s). And might I remind you again, this is _The Smithsonian_ we're talking about! Now, knowing that, want to hear Alfred E. Perlman's response? He replied, and I quote, "The New York Central will not be remembered for antiquities such as steam." .................ohohohoho, _how ironic_

I Say we could use some more Locomotives from the Highland railway and the Metropolitan Railway. The Metropolitan Railway Only Saved two Loco's Being E Class No.L44 (Now No.1) and A Class No.L45 (Now No.23). The Highland Railway However only saved ONE LOCOMOTIVE Being Highland Railway Jones Goods Class No.103 The First of the class (Also Being the First 4-6-0 Built in the British Isles). I am Sorry if this turns out wrong.

@history in the dark could you make a video about B A L D W I N # 2 1 🚂👍worked for Santa Maria Valley Railroad in southern California For 37 years, it pulled loads of sugar beets, vegetables and petroleum products along the 36-mile rail line. It also became the "pet" engine of the railroad's owner, Capt. G. Allen Hancock, a West Coast financier who helped bankroll agriculture in the valley during the 1900s and had a passion for putting himself at the throttle. The 81-ton locomotive became a favorite on the railroad for both its domineering presence on the track and its famous engineer. The renown, steam-driven workhorse of the Santa Maria Valley Railroad was retired in 1962. Crews dismantled the most famous engine of the SMV railroad and trucked it to Snoqualmie, Wash where a railroad preservation group planned to place it into excursion service. That plan never materialized and for over a decade, #21 rested disassembled under the alder trees. Railroad buffs in Clatsop County joined forces in 1990, forming the Astoria Railroad Preservation Association. The first major order of business was to find a steam engine to restore and run along the Astoria rail line. & maybe also talk about Santa Maria Valley 205 Engine 205 was built in 1924 by the Baldwin Locomotive Works of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania for the San Joaquin and Eastern Railroad and used by the railroad until it shut down in 1933. Following the closure of the SJ&E the locomotive was sold to the Santa Maria Valley RR and moved to Santa Maria, CA. The 205 operated on the SMV until 1950 when it was donated to the city of Santa Maria and placed on display in 1950. In 1983 the 205 was sold to George Lavacot and moved to Independence. OR. where the restoration of the locomotive began. George and a group of friends met regularly over the following 38 years to bring 205 back to life. During the restoration one of George’s good friends, who was a member of the team maintaining the SP 4449 and was enamored by large mainline locomotive, commented that the 205 was nothing but a “Baldwin pig of a locomotive”, commenting on her humble beginnings and slightly obscure use by shortline railroads in California. Following this comment, the name “Porky” was given to the locomotive and the pig theme stuck throughout the restoration. Sometimes you will see a pig mascot hanging out and riding on the headlight of the locomotive. In 2021 following the successful restoration of the engine George sold the engine to the Albany and Eastern Railroad where a good home could be provided, and the locomotive would be operated in a way that would allow it to be seen by the public. SMV 205 is used by AERC on select weekends throughout the year.

I been on wd 90733 and she amazing engine and believe the hope is that by 2027/8 she be back in traffic on keighley and worth valley railway

There's a NYC 0-6-0 preserved. I think it's numbered 6721

is new york central where they got the character of Diesel 10 from in Thomas? a Diesel that wanted to kill off all the stream engines

Every railroad if you got steam locomotives hide them all now

Wicked background music in the Lima segment

See, that's why there are so many S-160 are in preservation. They all left the country before Perlman could find them.

I know there’s an effort here in the U.S. to make an all new Pennsy T1 (4-4-4-4 wheel arrangement); maybe they should have made a Niagara instead.

oh the wooferdunks.

Darkness my man you gotta throw in the e2. Yes ok they were exactly great steam locomotives but come on lol? Do I need to say why atleast 1 shoulda been preserved? British rail woulda made ridiculous amounts of money if they saved one, painted it blue and fixed it's problems to where it could do passenger runs. And Edward shoulda saved Edward I forget what model he was.

I have to wonder, with the existence of reproduction locomotives like Lady of Legend and the ongoing build of the T1 5550, how many more locomotives that deserved preservation will be reproduced.

You got that right all these engines that should be saved. I hate that word strap All engines should be saved for resude or off to the mesums so we can see them and enjoy it too just rotting shame beautiful and historical engines

I have heard that one of the New York central Hudson’s number 5441 was supposed to be preserved at the national museum of transportation but it was scrapped in 1955

Can you talk more about the Hong Kong KCR?

If you’re embarrassed by something you won’t save it.

LITERALLY ANY RF&P STEAMER

I will never not say that the Milwaukee Road A class and F7 baltics should've been saved

Wasn’t the PRR S-1 the longest steam engine not just solid frame but all together

just add something, after watching this video, I thought about Danish locomotives class, and well for me, the Litra N class should have been preserved, (also something from Bornholm should have been preserved)

May I ask the name of the song used during the end of the Austerity section, please?