75 and 1/2 bikes like that high maintenance old liquors piece of junk compared to the oil leakers high maintenance motorcycles how do 😮😢😢 Japanese number one play British breakfast is a piece of s*** to
A friend used to race a 250 Greeves Silverstone in VRMC race meetings. It was owned and prepared by a local 2-stroke tuner and was frequently the fastest in its class.
I had a Greeves sports twin in 1964 and love the 2T engine to this day. I had many conversations with Bert Greeves and had a lot of respect for him. Thanks for the wonderful memories of our beloved british 250s.
Great video. Thanks for showing these iconic bikes of the past. I had an Ambassador 250 cc twin Villiers engine with drop handlebars painted in electric blue. To date, Ive not seen another like it. Im 81 and would still be riding it, if only!
I had a James flying cadet, a Suzuki Sportstman and then a BSA C12 which was good for 55mph in 3rd gear and 50 in top, a speed almost matched by the little Suzuki on a good day with the silencer baffle removed, though the Beezer was less bothered by hills or head winds. An old guy visited a neighbour regularly on a C10 that most of the cooling fins had rusted through and fallen off. The stand didn't work or had dropped off so he just laid the bike down. It never failed to start. The neighbour being visited had a Bantam D10 and a workmate had a D14/4 - the throttle cable broke while on a jaunt and so we rode from Scunthorpe to Newark with me on the pillion controlling the engine speed with the short bit of cable sticking out the carb while the guy up front did everything else. At the top of our street lived a very nice BSA C15. A former school friend had a Norton Jubilee that sounded like a bag of bolts - the rattling could be heard long before the exhaust note, approximately 2 streets away. It required more oil than petrol due to leakage. He soon swapped it for a Honda Benly with oval brake drums - an infinitely more exciting machine... Another friend had a C12 and his brother-in-law a Royal Enfield Turbo Twin. A neighbour of theirs had a lovely Continental GT and another a Crusader while another had a whole garage full of bikes, including a Corgi and one I have never seen since - a 175 Aermacchi. To us kids in the mid-60s it looked like a weird Honda 50 sport on steroids...
I had a throttle cable break on my B175 Bantam and I clamped the broken end into the brake lever mount and got home pulling on the cable sleeve. I think that Aermacchi 175 (also carried the Harley name) could be the Ala Rossa which was supposed to make 81mph!
No doubt the Starmaker was their best. The only real modern engine they had. It should have been successful but the UK bike market was vanishing by then
I watched the first vid. on the British 250s and now this - I'd forgotten that there were so many. That Cotton, with the Starmaker engine looks super ! 🙂
Not about Japanese bikes Clues on the title As someone who commuted on small Japanese bikes I can testify that they ain’t always that dependable Many a happy Mike pushing a Suzuki etc
Enjoyed the video. The Jubilee at 4.12 is a 350 Navigator. The Roadholder forks give it away. I had a Talisman Twin in about 63, it was the worst bike I ever had but at that time, like many of us then, all I could afford was worn out stuff. Regards Edward.
I was that spotty faced 17yr old with an aging Greeves trials bike. It was also my transport for work. Monday to Friday it ran a smaller rear sprocket & shorter chain, kinda scrambler gearing, weekends reverted to shorter trials setup. Not ideal but best I could afford.
This all sounds very much like my early teens. We all competed in local trials on the weekend - a mate had a very noisy Greeves Pathfinder, I had a Montesa 172 - by the time I was 16/17 I had a Yamaha RD 250....how we survived those completely potty weekend 'burn ups' is a mystery.
After a brief spell on a Yamaha FS1E at 16,, as soon as I was able , I jumped on to an old Enfield Crusader and didnt look back . Sure I had a BSA Starfire and a C15 , also a Bantam , but the Enfield was the fastest , the sexiest , the noisiest and the continetal GT was just pure adrenylin . Progressing onto a Bullet , and then a Meteor , and finaly a Constellation 700 . The make attracted the sort of girls that I dare not take home to meet mum ! and there was this one young lady that ....err best not go into that ! I am very pleased that Royal Enfield has survived to become one of the top bike makers in the world . Only Enfield saw the threat of the Japanese and responded with 5 speed gearbox and 4 valve head which was at least fashionable . Only sorry that the bikes are not still made in Redditch .
Have just come across your channel and am glad I did! Excellent content, I can now catch up on your previous videos, thank you. you have a new subscriber!
I gave my Jubillee to my older brother, who took and passed his test on it....with no clutch cable or oil in the forks! I didn't understand about things like that then !! 🙂
Interesting group of bikes! Again, most I have never seen or heard of before. Some may have been able to become something greater today. A pity none did.
Back in the early seventies I had a Honda CB 250 and my mate bought a Norton Jubilee 250 which was a money pit. Let him loose on my Honda one day and I rode his jubilee. Well that was an experience for the both of us.He loved the Honda and I hated the Norton.Vibrated, wouldn't go around corners and it wouldn't stop when the brakes were applied. After pleading with his dad to get another bike he turned up at my home one day on a brand new Suzuki Hustler 250.
The Norton was a poorly funded project And to be fair comparing a machine with something much newer is a bit of a nonsense Like saying my new tyre corners much better than the bald one I replaced
I had a 1961 Greeves 250 Hawkstone. With some porting work, milled head, better expansion chamber and an Alpha chrome moly racing crankshaft added, that machine would scream!
In December 1965 I took my test on a borrowed Jubilee. On the way to the test centre I dropped it on black ice. Kicking the bent footpeg back into place, I carried on to town. It snowed throughout the test, and I don't think I got past 20 mph, but I passed anyway!
had a royal enfeild crusader sports 1959 s uperb handling bike l went on the 1960 acu rroad rally and my pillion rider enjoyed the rally on this superd bike beutiful to handle unforgetable experience on this bike
My very firdt bike was a 1951 Excelsior Talisman Twin, It had plinger rear suspension like the one you show. It was a good bike, comfortable but rather slow when compared with today.
You missed my favourite twin. The Norman B3 in roadster and sport model. Originally fitted with a British Anzani two stroke twin then the Villiers 2T and fitted with the Armstrong leading link suspension. Ah! Those were the days.
In the mid to late 1970s there was a bike shop on Normanton Road in the Normanton area of Derby. That was where I saw my one and only Norton Jubilee. It was light blue. That struck me as an odd colour for a bike, especially a Norton, yet something drew me to its uniquely elegant lines and obvious rarity. So I asked the owner about it. “Not for sale” came the reply. I guess he was either very attached to it for some reason, or he was waiting for it to be worth more money. That probably never happened in his lifetime. At that time the latest Japanese bikes were already making even their own earlier models look somewhat dated. It was a time of rapid advances in power, style and of course reliability. I had one mate who swapped his Yammy AS1 for a BSA C15 with a Starfire tank, and another who even dressed in old fashioned clothes as he rode his BSA 650 twin (A65?). Another older guy who wrote some decent poetry, rode a Triumph Bonnie who’s crank he brought into work to finely balance. The test of us were either Suzuki GT or Yamaha RD two stroke devotees, or more serious Honda owners. Many of those who chose Kawasakis or scooters, tended to get planted with young tears, after a brief period of infamy and won races, then featuring, like a stark warning to us all - in a dire headline on the front page of the Derby Evening Telegraph. As things got more exciting, it was unspoken lore that we were all playing a dangerous game on the edge of something unknown. Mothers and girlfriends cried, but those of us who survived, shrugged feigned indifference to the risks and carnage, and saw the last of the greatest era in motorcycle history. After giving up bikes in favour of four wheels myself, the day Diana Spencer sealed the worst decision of her life, and married the faithless associate of the most notorious unprosecuted$€>< offender in British history, I leant my Vauxhall Viva to a mate so he could take some friends to a rock festival at Donington, and borrowed his lovely Honda CB750 Super Sport to take a borrowed girlfriend on a fast fun ride around the Peak District’s empty roads. Ode to the 250 We will never taste these joys, Nor cut these winds again, With our great enthusiasms And our bold devotions. One down, four up We were boys with toys
What you say Giving up bikes in favour of a tin box And you dare post on my channel The very nerve 😂😂 I do actively dislike anything with four wheels German cars especially
All two stroke twins are 180 degrees, not as you said some were 360. If a two stroke twin was a 360 it would be like a single because they fire every stroke.
Well I was really referring to the four stroke twins But for the record the only other parallel twin I two stroke available in the Uk industry in 1950 was the Scott and it’s 360 crank. Remember Villiers twins were more than a decade away at the time
Me and my mate Billy put a arrow 250 in a Bantam B175 that was the best British 2 stroke there ever was went like stink trouble was we couldn't stop it
Between about 1966 and the early 70's, as a young teen thru to my early 20's, I was really into bikes, and the mags of the time. All the names here, very well known to anyone interested in bikes at the time. But really, I hardly ever saw any of these bikes on the road. I think I saw a Norton Jubilee once. All those disposable commuter bikes, Fannie Barnett, James ... very very occasionally I'd see some already clapped out one. Greeves, Cotton, Excelsior... Nope. Already the British motorcycle industry was imploding, the roads were full of Hondas.., the scooterettes, and bigger. Loads of Lambrettas, and Vespas around. Plenty of the bigger Triumphs and BSA's. But for smaller bikes, Villiers engines really didn't cut it in comparison with what was coming in from Japan. My first actual owned bike was a 1962 BSA C15 250, bought in 1971, for £50. I really enjoyed it, stable and good handling. I've always liked single cylinders. 20 years later, I bought a Suzuki DR 650. Loved that.
As a matter of diverse interest, the way I heard the end of Villiers story was third or fourth hand from someone there at the time. One of the first Japanese bikes in the UK in significant numbers was the Suzuki T10 250 2-stroke twin and at the time it was an attractive bike. At that time Villiers 250 offering was the 2T 2-stroke twin that was much loved by Villiers captive market - officialdom. The engine was a reliable slogger that started easily and was completely unfussy - uncomplaining when hauling a large police officer (for instance) around all day with his wet weather gear, large heavy radio and packed panniers. Sales to official bodies probably went a long way towards the wages bill of those building the engines. The Suzuki T10 worried the gaffers at Villiers and they responded by quickly developing the exhaust tuned 4T version that was a (claimed) match for the T10 and then put the entire manufacturing capacity over to the new engine - it was about that time the Suzuki T20 arrived in the UK along with several other Japanese 250 offerings. The Villiers 4T couldn't compete with the Japanese invasion and their captive market hated the fussy exhaust tuned new version and weren't slow in voting with their feet...
Well villiers really were in need of a complete new engine But the 4t was a modification of the 2T with porting designed for use in microcars and the line The used a reverse cone exhaust to up the power but ended up with a revvy beast with only 17hp not a lot more than the more user friendly 2t The star maker was their one truly modern unit and they didn’t make good use of it. They even refused to sell it to client companies in the latter part of the 60s
No Government assistance at all and by allowing foreign goods to flood all our markets was an easy "earner" for them... until of course, the sh@te hit the fan.
Greeves also built a 500 single, which I was lucky enough to get to ride in about 76 but I don't believe it was never put into production. They were trying to get the army contract after the demise of BSA, but I think the contract went to Can-Am.
@@bikerdood1100 can't remember think it had a gear driven primary we tried it out at Halstead, then I went with them when they tried to sell it to the Jordanian army happy days all expenses paid in the Hilton in Aman.
The first bike I ever rode, back in 1958, was a 98cc James Comet; it had a two-speed 'box (slow and slower) via a change lever on the handlebar. The road outside my school was on the Barnett's test route, so I saw a lot of them and my mate's Dad was their Transport Manager at the Lower Ford Street factory, until production was moved to the James factory in Greet. The Piatti engine was a disaster for AMC, who did a lot of strange things, including their well-known refusal to offer their machines for testing by the motorcycle press. How on earth they thought they would sell their products is something only they would know and it's no surprise that they collapsed in 1966. The Norton Jubilee was fragile, as was their 350 Navigator; the ES400 Electra was a bit better, but underdeveloped and didn't last long. Neither of these two were of interest to the learner, of course. My neighbour in early 1963 had a Royal Enfield 250 Clipper with the now-rare Airflow fairing and I had a new 250 Jawa. Later sub-250's I owned included a Bantam D14/4, BSA C11G, Yamaha RD250, a 2022 Skygo Earl 150 in the Philippines and my current Suzuki VL250LC Invader.
Their poor relationship with the press was the stuff of legend Almost like AMC were trying to go bust Too much AMC interference at Norton didn’t help the Jubilee either
My first bike was also a 98cc James Comet which I bought for £2.10shillings in around 1963. It had been advertised for £4 but the chap selling it let me have it for the price I'd offered, though I don't think his wife was very pleased about it. He was obviously a kind hearted chap and let me have it after he heard I had saved up the money from my paper round. I was only about 12- 13 at the time and when i finally learned how to pull away I remember the thrill of going up hill as fast as I could go down hill on my bicycle.
@@johnbrereton5229 That was nice of him. Vis-a-vis the price, past (and very expensive) experience leads me to believe that our better halves frequently want more!
Me too, couldn’t fix oil leaks! A lot of noise but not a lot of speed (not as fast as a friends Arrow). Recall racing around a housing estate block in Cambridge…..until stopped by cops.
I had a sun 250 2t red armstrong forks my brother older than me cleand up the ports paded the crank cases reset the ignition ( he was and is a very good macanic ) it was very reliadle good on petrol for a 2 stroke 98 svd reg i had it in 1966 hit a car in nov 5th 1966 i was ok broak my leg bike had to be put down 😂😂
I think you got a bit mixed up with the 180 crank. Who ever made a 360 crank two stroke parallel twin? Simultaneous firing? The Japanese tinkered with 180 crank four strokes though...
Ah apologies i said in P 1 no James commodore and here it is my bad lol,my dad had a 250 single Commodore from 1965 to 1980 ,did thousands of miles and he said only broke down once ,and that was due to crap in the carb
Only fit so many in at the end of the day. I also covered Villiers powered bikes in the first video and pretty sure I cover the AMC engines which covers the James
How about doing a vid about Ariel singles. First bike I Had on the road was an NH 350 (1954) having passed my test (such as it was in 1969) on a borrowed Vespa 160.
@@bikerdood1100 No, just as many of the singles as you can fit in a video. I have a thing about them. I still have an NH. Not the one I had when I was 16 of course.
Jubillee was the worst bike going i had two the first one turned into a hand grenade part of the crank case hit me in the face i thought i was unlucky so got another and the swinging arm snapped going around a bend they looked a lot better than they were we only recognised them as AMC not Norton hahaha i later owned the very last Manx to leave the show room in 1963 i also had an Excelior Talisman as a track bike.
had a 250 norton twin in 1965 what they called a [high camshaft] engine after it seized for about the fourth time, the shop said heres your money back why not buy a honda cb72 250 no wonder the british factories all went bust their bikes were total crap, good riddance. although i have a 1200 tiger now nothing wrong with that did, have a bmw 1250 gsa adv i prefer the triumph.
The Norton definitely wasn’t the best of British I often wonder where all the super reliable cb72s went 🤔 As I rider who spent the 80s pushing various Japanese bikes home I do find their reliability something of a myth to be honest. I’ve owned bikes from pretty much everywhere and found the Jap stuff no more reliable in all honesty especially when used, they can be total crap and a bloody nightmare to fix
Norton Jubilee and Navigator were flawed designs, poorly executed. The frame was not made of tube but rather plate folded into an aerofoil shape and seam welded at the back. You could not hear the exhaust note for the cacophony coming from the camshafts/pushrods/tappets
Do believe that pretty much covered in the video, The valve gear may not have been particularly quiet but louder than the exhaust? Heard quite a few of these bikes running and as you can hear quite clearly the valve gear is in no way drowning out the exhaust note. The frame construction was of Francis npBarnett / James type but the handling wasn’t bad even with the cheap suspension
"Classic " the most over rated word in the english language if it's something made in U.K. Basically all had short comings but the manufacturers didn't care as they fostered these on every country in the empire til Japan give them a wake up call, but it was too late
All bikes have short comings especially when we’ll used I often reflected on this pushing my 80s Suzuki home The British industry hit the buffered before the arrival of the Japanese in point of fact, something all to often overlooked in the drive to over simplify
@@bikerdood1100 Thank you, I bought mine from a friend of a friend of a friend, you know that one. I was a penniless Apprentice at the time and thought it would be a good idea. However when I rode it home it just coughed and spluttered badly and knowing nothing about 2 stroke technology I sent it too a specialist (not the whole bike just the engine unit), when it came back I refitted it into the frame, connected the electrics and fuel, put the required mix in the tank, started it up and it seemed fine(no load). Later I decided to ride out to my girlfriends house, it went off fine but on the ten mile journey it ran rougher and rougher until the bike literally shook itself to bits on a roundabout busy with traffic. I sold the damn thing for scrap and didn't own another bike for about 15 years afterwards.
We need to be sensible about what makes a bike a classic. Just being old isn't a qualification. Let's stop devaluing the term classic by restricting it to truly groundbreaking models of their era. Most old British bikes were just mass-produced simple transport for the working class - and pretty terrible at that. Classics are Vincents, Broughs, Sunbeams, Goldies, Manx Nortons, Velocettes, etc.
They may not be best in class, but these bikes were also part of the history of the British bike industry. In my view, anything that has survived this long and is still running is a classic (I speak as a 68 year old who has had several heart surgeries and still rides every day on 40+ year old bikes).
@@rickconstant6106 I played club rugby when I was 16 to 25 very badly. I'm now over 70. But I would never be - nor deserve to be - called a "rugby legend". If you place a value purely on the basis of age, its ridiculous. A rusty old 1960 washing machine in a scrap yard is no less a classic to you on that basis. You demean the term for no good reason.
@@zenscapeUKmedia That's a very tenuous leap of logic you have made to justify your argument. There is no need for insults here, we are all entitled to our opinion. I remember these bikes from when I was younger, and wouldn't want to own most of them, but I maintain that, if a bike has survived this long and is still usable, it deserves recognition.
Oh so only the expensive stuff Bull shit would be my considered response Which Sunbeams ? Nothing I hate more than bike snobbery Brough A massively over priced bitsa Too expensive to be if any relevance what so ever to real riders
To value everything by its economic value is to understand nothing at all Is a morris minor or a mini nota classic car because it’s not an an E type Jag? What a pathetic attitude to have Hate Rugby incidentally Toffs sport For non riders and arm chair fantasists
