5 Problems with SPIKED WEAPONS Vs MEDIEVAL ARMOR 

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"and if you can't pull out in time that can be a really really big problem" - Matt Easton 19/05/2022

Yes, not pulling out in time can be not a good thing in some instances, lol

LMAO I love that Matt used to be almost apologetic for how lewd talking about weapons can be. But now not only does he embrace it without even mentioning how dirty it sounds, he seems to intentionally lean into it even more.

Sometimes you need a can opener. Sometimes you need a meat tenderizer.

This guy deserves an award for his talent in keeping a straight face whilst saying funny shit

We think of things made of metal as basically "permanent" objects, as opposed to "disposable" objects, but here you're highlighting the "fuel economy" of this particular type of offense. Arrows are used up in a second, maces likely last a campaign, spears maybe a day, maybe more. As per physics, all physical weapons are ultimately disposable, it's just a matter of how many insults can you eek out of a weapon of type X before it's not viable as compared with type Y. Maybe a new way to discuss "effectiveness" linguistically. Lots of computer games now incorporate "durability" ratings, but the execution is usually hilariously arbitrary. Despite the game-balance value, this damage-inflicted to damage-incurred ratio is definitely relevant in discussions of anything beyond a single, controlled experimental strike. Great video as always Matt.

Being hit in armor with even a blunt mace, no matter the padding, is not fun. In the head it is crazy loud and disorienting, even if it is a glancing blow that does not really hurt you at all. I am sure hearing loss was a problem as well as TBI for soldiers that survived such fights. I think that Edward III strokes and mental decline toward the end of his reign may have been due to so many blows to the head in jousts. So too for Henry IV.

I'd wager the spike/bec de corbin "against _ALL_ armour" is context lost to time. It would be devastating against mail and probably coats of plate and brigandines. Not so much against actual plate armour. It's like a guy from the 30s saying a tank rifle is "a great weapon against tanks" which is true for the tanks existing when he said that. Move his statement by 30 years and he will sound utterly insane.

I've forged spiked morningstars and maces for car smash events (people pay to damage a junk car for charity) and the spikes curling over when striking metal is definitely a problem, was just using mild steel, not high carbon / heat treated anything

Btw, D.A.Kinsley in his book cites many accounts when even such spear-like weapons from a quality (and less than that) steel as the lances and bayonets get stuck in the opponent's body which led even to death or at least problems of that weapons´ wielder.

In rough carpentry a "milled faced hammer" is used for rough work with the same theory of being easier to get good purchase at odd angles. Might talk to your local framer a bit.

If there are impurities in medieval steel that makes weapon failure more likely couldn't the same be said of medieval armor?

I've always assumed that the way the spike is usually curved on many weapons like a bec de corbin is to try to ensure that it will be easier to pull out if it gets stuck in armour. I would expect that the curve being similar to the arc the spike takes when the weapon is swung would mean that it would penetrate more cleanly and be less likely to seriously bind, since you'd be attempting to pull it back out in an arc, unlike pulling back on a top spike.

The Halligan Tool (Hooligan Tool) is a modern piece of firefighting kit that includes a spike as part of its head. Its primary use is to be swung axe like into metal sheeting to provide ventilation or irrigation holes. From personal experience using one they can get stuck from time to time but can usually be wrenched out with little effort.

The fact he said all of these innuendos with a straight face is astonishing.

Thank you! You answer questions I've wondered about and questions I didn't know I wanted answered. Such a good channel! Cheers!

I would like to ask, why a straight edge on the pole axe rather than a regular circular axe edge?

Always great to see your videos . please make another video describing the drawbacks of axes against armour .

Having worked with hand tools like picks and axes all my life, i would suggest that, with practice, and the right technique, it would be possible to get a side spiked weapon out much quicker than you would be able to just by pulling and wiggling. I think that the design of dome of the beaked weapons seems to facilitate that, while others with a narrow section at the base for example seem badly designed for that.

YES! My living history group did some tests with a mild steel helmet, and the results were wild. First strikes glanced clean off, only after a solid blunt strike did spike hits begin penetrating, and every single one got stuck. Potentially good for grappling and manipulating that target, bad for defense and follow-up attacks.

Some great points in a very thorny subject full of holes , you picked a sharp topic . Not to throw cold water on those sticking points but could they be used like a crowbar/wedge to pull apart an amored opponents kit to then penetrate them further? ... going for even deeper penetration hitting where the plates meet ?

I really LOVE that bit at around the 2:05 mark, where there's an edit, because Matt appears to have noticed that he was waffling on down a tangent, drifting further and further from any kind of point, but then after the cut/ edit, he comes back to say "To answer this concisely, I have..." It's just bloody brilliant!!! It reminds me VERY much of this scene from Family Guy, where Tom Tucker starts drifting farther from reality, until someone bops him on the head, resulting in him getting back on track. I've linked that scene below, but because I couldn't find that specific scene by itself, you'll have to skip ahead to the 2:30 mark in the clip to see the scene I'm talking about: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iVP89BMUhHI.html

An experimental video on the comparative effects of spikes vs hammers is a geat idea, ... but a video on the dangers of not pulling out fast enought is an even better one.

Hey Matt; do you have a store listing for the helmet you've showing in this video? It's gorgeous.

When the spike goes into a slit of armour, can you use the pole/ spike as a crowbar to break away armour pieces? And when armour plates are bend, the wearer can perhaps no more move good?

I imagine spikes and hammers were really effective for rendering armor immobile. Smashing in to impede movement. Make the armor less ergonomic.

This man drops innuendos without even a smirk.

Another thing to keep in mind with glancing blows, is that the momentum of the weapon is going to carry on after glancing off of the armor, throwing you off balance and out of position.

Watching matt subtly realizing that all his examples have spikes on them is pretty great

That is a beautiful Pollaxe. Does anyone happen to know who makes/sells it perchance?

I remember reading somewhere that some military or other, trained with a special focus on blade extraction, the concept being that attacking comes naturally after a certain amount of experience and training, but extracting a blade cleanly, and effectively continuing the fight, is of vital importance. I have no source to substantiate this claim, its just a clutter-file half-recollection.

Great points!

Does Wiktenauer have any documents that show axe spike-vs-plate techniques ?

Bonestuck is an interesting question / point imo as well. Id love a post or short on that, especially noting different weapons and their concerns with that situation

Where do you buy your armor? New sub would like to know

8:30 Maybe one of you guys can answer this. A lot of the halberds that I see have straight axe blades like the one Matt has in this video. This seems like it wouldn’t contact an opponent as well as a standard, curved axe head. I googled some images & it seems like it was in pretty widespread use, some of the axe heads being at even more seemingly awkward angles. I feel like I must be missing something obvious, but it’s something I’ve wondered about for years.

There is a tomahawk style, I think called a "gunstock" type, which is curved and puts the spike closer to the middle or at least well down from the end. There would presumably less power in the swing (shorter shaft) but wondering if that placement helped to get the spike out by providing a sort of lever on each side of the point that lets the user push it against the target's body to wrench it out. Any info on usage of those weapons in that way?

will you post a link to the video with you and todd that you mentioned.

I would love to see hammer tips comparison. The one on your poleaxe seems little too big for me. I like the style of your one handed but id personally like it to be wider behind the actual hammering surface, if it was my arm. Currently im sticking to my club

Could it have come down to personal preference/cost? If we look at paintings from medieval battlefields is there a big disparity between spikes and hammerheads?

Does anyone know the name of that spiked axe and who makes it?

Controversial opinion here: I don't think spikes were on most medieval/plate age weapons to be anti-plate armor, but rather that is just a bonus (unless we are talking about specialized units with specialized weapons). I have several reasons for this opinion. First, in addition to all the problems you listed, there is an extra peculiar and annoying issue. While such spikes can indeed penetrate armor to deal a severe or deadly wound, in combat there is a large chance you won't accomplish that. Doubly true for short spikes and for single handled weapons. Armor beign worn has multiple areas where there is decent space and padding between the plate and the flesh behind. Even if you connect with anything short of a proper straight hit, any angle your attack has can easily mean will only poke through the metal and mess the padding underneath without seriously harming the opponent. Which is rather likely, because a real person as an opponent recoils and moves when attacked, from when begin to swing, through the point of impact, until the end of the attack; real people don't just stand strongly still like a test mannequin with a heavy base. And then you add the fact you point that against plate such weapon might just get deflected altogether, and altogether it seems to me such spikes are bit rubbish in practical terms against an uncooperative target like a real enemy, with too many factors out of your control (i.e. no amount of "git gud" will really fix it) making them unreliable as anti-plate weapons. Second (really first but I wanted to start with something that ties to the video directly) is that they've been in weapons before plate. Which "suggests" (to not get too cocky), that spikes are not a response to plate armor that didn't exist when they were introduced to weaponry (some later refinements in designs might be due to plate, but not spikes as a whole). Spikes have been used since pre-history as weapons, and particularly we can mention the Romans and their dolabra, a modern pickaxe and spiked battle axed looking thing, which was indeed used both as tool and weapon of war. Thing built the empire and killed its enemies. And we know plenty of their opponents weren't even as armored as they themselves were, and they weren't exactly wearing proper full plate armor either. What spikes are freaking good against though, it is flesh, clothing, mail and lamellar or "scale" armor. And against those, it is far less likely to get stuck. Basically anything that is not made of big rigid sheets of metal with a domed shape that creates gaps between the body and the armor and are prone to introduce some degree of deflection or make things glance, and are also likely to be hard to extract the weapon from even on a merely partially successful hit. Which are things that existed and needed to be overcome in a version or another indeed since antiquity (e.g. Romans, Revolt of Sacrovir and the use of that dolabra against the full body full body lorica segmentada/crupellarii gladiator style armor of many of the revolting forces). They are also plenty good to hook things, and to mess up a wooden shield and either yank it out of your enemy's hand at the same time (center grip) or control your opponent and perhaps throw them to the ground (strapped). Thirdly, the existences of several weapon designs (I will focus on the classic war hammer with a spike on the back) not meant for specialist units suggests it serves a more general purpose (see the last paragraph of the previous point). If you're a non specialist unit, why have a weapon with two anti-plate main offensive bit like a hammer (which is objectively anti-plate, and faces far less of the drawbacks outlined in the video or by me in this role) and a spike that imo is far worse against plate? Unless, the spike isn't there to deal with plate. That would mean the weapon is more general and versatile, which would fit better as the weapon of a non specialized unit that isn't fighting only people in full plate as it was often the case. You can apply this to other weapon designs, and imo it can make even more sense (e.g. a hammer with top and back spike isn't an extremely anti-plate weapon with 3 anti-plate dedicated bits, but a flexible one with an anti-plate centred bit bit, an anti-non-plate amor/plate gap exploiting centric bit, and a bit centred on anti-shield/hooking; and if you can tell which bit is which just from these descriptions, I think I made my case well then). EDIT: language.

Please make more videos about flanged maces! How do they perform compared to morning stars, clubs and hammers?

The subject got well and truly penetrated today.

dragging riders off horses seems like the best use of spikes to me. getting stuck is a bonus in that case.

Side point to point 2: a glancing blow will still impart some energy into the target. Yesterday I was putting some "history" into a piece of metal with bow and arrows. The arrow glanced of the side and the 50kg target &stand fell over

One thing that can't be denied is that a spike on something like a warhammer is a force multiplier (focus would probably be more accurate) because you're putting all that kinetic energy through a very small area when it makes contact. If you want to penetrate something hard like steel armour then you need all of your force going through as small of a point as practically possible to make it work, if however the armour is too thick too tough or you simply can't land clean shots enough of the time then trying to shock the squishy pink bit inside the armour into submission is your best course of action hence why you've got a hammer on the opposite side. Horses for courses as it were, you can't make one tool do everything perfectly so you might as well make it versatile

Is not concussion and transfer of force important too?

Could you do a video on the differences between lamella, brigandines, and coats of plates as you mentioned in the video??

This video is a penetration BANANZA!

9:30 were the spikes on the side specifically intended to do something if the blow turned the weapon or were strikes deliberately made with the side?

I am wondering if a bludgeoning weapon might be more ”forgiving” against armour and also more likely to last the entire battle (or a campaign) compared to blades or spikes. The point (pun intended) you make regarding metal quality is really interesting.

Good point at the end. Its easy enough when just carrying the weapon around to dent the point. There is a problem with through hardening a thickwr sections and also the hardness and sharpness of the point is highly critical to get enough force to overcome any movement and then force in fare enough to begin cutting the steel to allow it to penitrate far enough to damage the target under the armor. The armor has still worked if that target is not badly damaged. Compared to other weapons its effectiveness compared to other things to actually get through the armor is better but it is dependent on far higher force and it can be degraded in effectiveness really rapidly. Like any body powered weapon total force is limited and fighting is often about finding ways to mak3 smaller amounts of force more effective rather then always using maximum force since there is a total limit to the amount and the time required to generate it. Its actually a different way to think about things and where modern fighting differs since chemical energy can be brought to into the equation. However there is still a limit to how much energy can actually be used and it still has effects on both combatants and has real limits especially when armor is brought back into the mix.

Some modern construction hammers have striking surfaces covered short spikes. These are designed to bite into the target, typically nails. Based on the damage these can do to exposed flesh, such as thumbs, compared to a smooth hammer head, I would argue that the spiked or textured heads of war hammers would have rendered an additional benefit of doing additional surface damage to unarmored or lightly armored opponents.

We sure went absolutely *balls deep* today.

Have you put your French flare spatoon hawk in metal yet? It has built in levers to add with extraction. Amazing design

Were there regional preferences for axe + hammer versus spike + hammer versus spike + axe for polearms? For example, did the English and Burgundians prefer axe + hammer (pollaxe), or the French prefer spike + hammer (bec d'corbin)?

I reckon the best use for that axe spike is to choke it up high and push it through your opponents visor slit in a wrestle. That way you don’t need to fumble for a dagger when you’re impossibly tangled like humping robots.

What about the Cold Steel War Hammer with the curved spike?

Hey Matt, thanks for a great channel! Sorry to bother you but... Since you're a blade afficionado I want to ask you about a knife I've seen in a cooking show on YT by Mark Wiens. This episode has the word LAWA PEOPLE FOOD in the title and is from N Thailand. @ abt 13 mins in there is this blade used for chopping pork... and its shape reminds me of a khukri... but in Thailand? Seems to be a great chopper of course. Can you please have a look and try to identify it for me, pls? I think I want one lol!

I never thought a hammer was really a battle weapon. But, after watching this channel and some medieval combat sports, an Axe with a hammer on the other end, is just brutally effective.

Any chance you could do an historical accounts video on spiked weapons vs armor, like you did with the American Indian tomahawk?

Is one of the problems that the spike breaks?

I always wondered: did they put some kind of oil, fat or wax onto the polished plate armor back then, to make it harder for weapons to "bite" and rather glance off? Would be an easy to apply boost before a battle.

I would prefer the axe/hammer honestly. I have a warhammer w/ a beck on the one side but it indeed does get stuck. Though what i have noticed is that it is amazing against riveted maille. It just breaks the rings & punches through it.

I'm no expert, but I think the top heavy weapons like these hammers would also be harder to realign than a sword when it glances off armour. Would that count as a point?

As a guy with an oval shaft I can confirm that gripping it correctly is easier

Requesting your kind opinion about how effective is an adventurer group consisting of a tank with 16th century plate armor suit, a bastard sword and a rodella shield, a DPS with a flintlock musket and a longsword, a healer and magical damage dealer cleric, and a hunter-explorer with a bow, a boar spear and a large shield like Zulu shields.

Seems the glancing effect could help when trying to slide the point between plates at high velocity.

Matt, have you done a similar analysis of hammers on medieval steel? Does the existence of the 'meat tenderiser' indicative of the instance of the effectiveness of hammers against period plate steel? Ie in cracking etc?

That is a beautiful Sallet... puts my one to shame, its covered in dents and stubborn rust spots and one of the lobster tail rivets had to be replaced with a nail ... 😁 Looking decidedly 'hedge knight'/'dastardly routier ' these days . I might have to spend some money on my harness!

I love the color of that helmet. Is that just heat treat or some other treatment?

Another on point vid.

Thank you.

Have not made it through the sponsored ad yet but here is my prediction. In order for a spike to go deep enough through the armour to kill your target. The spike is likely going to get stuck in the armour. At least enough so as to dis arm you long enough for someone to in turn dispatch yourself. If your not going in deep enough to kill them but only injure them. You might as well use a hammer and mitigate being disarmed

(Comment made only part way into the video, at about 6:39) If my weapon gets stuck in a helmet is that really that bad for me against that one person? Even if I didn't go into their head very far, I can still yank on my weapon and whip their head around. That sounds like a pretty nice advantage in a fight - but I am not well learned in these types of things, hence the question.

I think the teeth on hammer faces show that spikes are better at biting into armour. That said, I agree with your statement that a spike is more likely to glance off. The reason, IMO, is that you can’t really misalign the hammer in swinging it, while you could do so with the spike. In other words, the spike is *slightly* harder to use effectively. We see the same thing with different types of sword, where some are very forgiving in the cut while others are not, even if both are able to do the job.

Great vid as usual - lots of good points. I'm probably wrong on this.....but if I were a medieval spiked weapon maker, I'd use better quality steel on the spike than on the main body of the weapon, exactly the same as making an everyday axe during that period......so I don't think steel failure is a particularly noteworthy consideration. However, as usual everything else you've said is, ahem, on point.

Straight spike or curved spike?

"...swing it into a tree..." Matt causes mass deforestation. 😂😂😂

heh... my favorite toy is a spiked war hammer I made from a rock hammer like you would use for prospecting. I sharpened the spiked side better than it came from the factory and put it on about 20 inches of hickory. It feels sooo good to hit an old bbq or some other sheet metal. LOL. 3/4 inch plywood barely slows it down. the hammer side is pretty fun too but not like that spike.

So this is, basically, a disguised love letter to the humble mace. I like it!

Would it get stuck in mail? Otherwise it would be ideal for that.

From what I have read, war hammers and poleaxes were used against lesser-armored enemies in maille and brigadines, instead of using slashing weapons, as it is devastating at causing injuries and broken bones. Even if a war hammer punctures through chest armor, it won't go in far enough to do serious injury, so it wouldn't have been used in such a way. Then there is the "stuck in" problem which can be fatal. The breastplate has quite a bit of distance from the body and many plates were "goose belly" shaped so the front crease is several inches away from the chest. If you have ever sparred you know that you only have a minute before you lose your wind and tire out, so a warrior had to choose their swings with weapons wisely.. Swinging at plate armor would be a waste of energy unless they hit the helmet. Lastly, a mass Medieval grave was found and many skulls had square-shaped holes in the back that were caused by warhammers. Researchers concluded that lesser-armored enemies (without helmets) were targeted.

What I would do to keep a spike on a weapon sharp if it's like meant to be slammed into armor is make the whole spike relatively squer shaped and give it a less then needle tipt point to begin with. If the spike is thick and partly blunted to begin with it's less likely to get a rolled tip or godverbidt bending the whole spike on impact and even a less sharp tip will still consentrate force pretty darn well. This would make them less effectif against light armor like a gambeson or flesh, but I would take that over a increased risk of bending the spike and no longer being able to aline it propperly. Bassicly if the spike would be for armor I would prefure a profiel almost the same as a rondel dagger and if I was going for flesh I would prefure a more bladed point.

So after deforming, the weapon becomes pointless?

It makes sense that an in-line spike on the top would be less susceptible to getting stuck than a pick-type spike coming out the front or back. A straight spike if you pull on it you're pulling straight out, a pick if you pull on it you're pulling _perpendicular_ to the line of the spike. To pull it directly out you have _terrible_ leverage. Also while a sword blade would also get damaged if you strike an armoured man, that's not what the sword is for. A spike on the other hand _is_ supposed to be used on armour.

what your channel needs is ballistic gel torsos with armor on them for testing and demonstration of the points and explanations you are making or trying to put into words

My spontoonhawk has been tweaking my wrist lately and I thought it was just me, but as I watched this video I took a look at it and sure enough the head isn’t aligned with the handle!

Teeth on hammers are for the opposite of surface area I think (though not compared to spikes clearly). I think they are teeth (/'spikes') are in order to 'bite' against the armour. They reduce the surface area compared to a straight (untoothed) edge on a hammer allowing them to better dig a tiny way into the armour. And even though that digging action is negligible compared to the armour's thickness it allows the warhammer to 'bite' against/into the armour increasing friction potentially by a whole lot and therefore increasing the amount of force transferred to the armour. Which could then perhaps be enough to either ring the bell of the combatant inside or bend flexible sections (eg. joint armour) enough to seriously injure a joint, restrict movement or open gaps for poking through. Further thought, maybe this actually pertains to how swung spikes were good against armour. A spike presents even less surface area, and thus bites even more effectively. And *possibly even more importantly* most spikes have the centre of propulsion directly behind their tip, while the edge of a toothed hammer is kinda automatically off centre. So with a hammer your toothed edge may bite and provide an improved force transferance but that improvement may be smaller than it could be because it also introduces a twisting force that helps the weapon deflect or frustrates weapon handling. While the pick does not suffer from this because it's force is directly behind the point at which it is gripping the armour.

That salet is beautiful.

In regards to the steel quality issues, I think a solid spike is better than a fragile thin blade. Also, even if you lose the tip as long as it's a warhammer you still have the weight on the back side so it's still good as a hammer on either side.

Frankly I'd also love a video of testing and differences in style with someone like Paul the Barbarian

So Matt as plated armour needs to be able to segment to allow movement, how seriously effected would you be if you took a shot that deformed the shell of the armour? I guess that could be another reason for the prevelence of brigandine? I definately prefer it to a cuirass 🤔 Can I ask for an experiment where you maybe use braces to restrict your movement as it would while you fight? I'd imagine it would be a great experience for you too, another thing you wouldn't have felt as it doesn't really happen during re-enactnents 🙂

The spike is a back up and you aim for the joints.

Anyone who has spent a lot of time swinging an axe, a pick, a hammer, a maul or a hoe (a real agricultural hoe) does edge alignment automatically. It's one of the first efficient work skills you learn. That's also why those tools tend not to have round handles. It's not just abut weapons and warfare.

Haven't finished watching the video, but let me throw this idea. The reason some weapons had spikes/beaks and some had hammers was similar to how spikes could get stuck on armor or flesh. Hammers may not always break bone protected by armor and may only hinder when the user intended to disable leading to the opponent capable of fighting when it was assumed he was removed from the fight, or slowed down enough when in a multiple man fight. This is my opinion why this variety exist aside of culture reasons.

4:33 Yes, yes it is

Raking a flat spike up the armour (i.e. up the arm) may effectively drive it into a gap. Not sure how useful that would be though?