There's a bit of a misconception as to what is and isn't in Turtle WoW in the comments, so let me clear things up: Stormwind Vaults -- Max Level 5 person dungeon, Alliance only (We Hordies need an equivalent!) Hyjal -- it's a fully explorable zone, including a new faction to grind rep with (like you do with the Argent Dawn), and the Emerald Dream raid, Tier 2 equivalent. You *do* have to go through the elite demon zone at the end of Winterspring to get up there though, so some Warlocks have been making a killing with Hyjal summons. No sign of the Amberhorn Caverns (yet). Karazhan -- Crypts are a fun, max level 5 person dungeon. Lower Karazhan Tower is a 10 person raid, equiv to Zul Gurub, no attunement needed. Upper Karazhan Tower is a Naxx-equiv 40 person raid, coming out in the next major content patch. Uldum -- not yet explorable, but a world boss peeks his head out from the gates, and yes, you can beat him up. Grim Batol -- not yet explorable. Caverns of Time -- Black Morass is a 5 person, max level dungeon. You can grind rep with the Bronze Dragons. Not to mention, Turtle WoW had new quests and towns scattered throughout old zones of all levels, new leveling dungeons like the Crescent Grove in Ashenvale and the Blackrock Quarry in the Burning Steppes (outside Blackrock Mountain), and new zones like Upper Tirstfal Glades and Gilneas (including the Gilneas City dungeon). Plus you can play as a High Elf for Alliance, Goblin for Horde, have new race/class combinations, and it's a friendly community. IMO, it's the best Classic Plus experience out there!
@@EbonhardtTV ebonhardt could you do a video on reacting maybe to like turtle wows classic + content? I’d be interested to hear your opinion and feedback on them. Like to their karaxhan crypts they made new raids dungeons etc. just your feedback and how you think it would work in offical classic +. Your thoughts and opinions are interesting
Since Classic + is my obsession I’ll give any of these videos a listen. Here are my thoughts on some of the cut content. The Stormwind Vault - I think it can easily be worked so that both factions have access by having an internal and external entrance. There is lots of space to the north east of Stormwind that can be developed for a “back door”. The motivations for the factions could even be opposite. Maybe there is a powerful horde aligned leader held captive in the lower depths and the Alliance wants to kill them and the Horde wants to free them. It turns out some demonic power has turned the person mad and both factions have to end up killing him. I reused my motivations from my ideas for an Alcaz Island Dungeon where the alliance is there to free Varian and the horde goes in to assassinate him. It would be a perfect ending for the long “The Missing Diplomat” quest line. Grim Batol - This is an interesting one because so much has gone on here that to do it justice you have to know what’s going on during the time of Classic. During this time Alexstrasza has closed it off because the sense that there was still some evil within. Any sort of raid would have to be from the perspective of helping the Red Dragon Flight take back Grim Batol and clear it of the evil lurking deep within. All of this would happen before the events of Cata and the Twilights Hammer moving in. Timbermaw - There is so much potential in this one and also has fantastic ties to the lore. I think you could not only have some huge underground zone you could have several raids or dungeons. There is a fantastic post on the classicwowplus reddit forum that goes into lots of details on this. You should check it out.
You mean classic+retail, none of the people involved with classic actually worked for blizzard during its golden era. Microsoft isn't know for taking over a franchise and doing it justice.
I actually agree with alot of the points you have. There are so many storylines, pathways, open ended questilnes, and just locations and designs that they can finish off. Classic+ has unlimited potential. And let me check it out
Turtle is adding Uldum as an actual raid. Uldum being a titan facility like every single other Ul area in the game makes sense. The idea that this giant deserst zone went unidsocvered or explored in a world where gryphons exist is absurd
Lore-wise, Uldum was hidden through a magic illusion iirc, that made it appear as if there was nothing there. Considering how hostile the Tanaris desert was, and how gadgetzan was it's only real settlement, it's not necessarily hard to believe that no genuine effort was made to explore enough to accidentally uncover an illusion that powerful. But what gets me, is that it's practically right next to Silithus, and Silithus had the Qiraji, who were once servants of the Black Empire. They would be much better equipped to recognize and discover Uldum. Especially when they had already made incursions as far north as the Barrens.
I hear people talking about the "true experience" when it comes to wow servers (both official and not) and what is or isn't which pretty much came down to "whatever wasn't in the original release, if it were added means it wasn't the true experience for that expansion and/or base game" which makes sense but it poses a new question which this video talks about. If someone gets a vanilla wow server and adds the cut content for it, considering it wasn't in on release that technically means its not part of the "true experience" but at the same time because it was going to be added to said game it can also be counted as "part of the true experience" so I wonder what everyone else here thinks? Does it count as part of the original experience or not? I'm curious what fans think or if I'm just looking too deep into this? Not just raids and dungeons but things like how goblins were cut before release (meaning we'd get goblins in vanilla should cut content be counted as part of the experience), same with the outlands in vanilla, the whole hero class thing which was planned in vanilla wow which means the runemaster mechanic (which was actually given to the released Death Knight) would return. Personally I'd love something like this, but I worry others wouldn't see this as faithful so I dunno.
The development history of The Black Morass is extremely interesting. It was added in 0.9.0 (Beta) and contained early designs for both The Black Morass and Escape from Durnholde Keep (from what I've found). The Durnholde portion was eventually moved into its own instance ID and cleaned up for TBC, while being zero'd out on the original ID. According to John Staats the development team built far too much in terms of instance geometry that the gameplay team didn't have time to flesh out everything, which lead to all the content being pushed to TBC. It's crazy to think that they were designing and building things that far back, Emerald Dream included, that they didn't have enough time to even decide what would be raid content or just Instance content.
I believe the OG dev were just making it up as they went. Much like not knowing where to put the Dark Portal. From WoW Diary, Grim Batol was also thought to be a low level dungeon for those questing in surrounding zones.
Instanced content is cool and all but I get the feeling it's a little over-fixated upon by the classic wow community. I remember some dev talks where they talked about open world dungeon-like experiences with Jintha'Alor and Stonewatch Keep being an example of them successfully implementing these. It seems to me that Hearthglen, Tyr's Hand, Darkwhisper Gorge and Demonfall Canyon were intended to be content along these lines (there are probably more areas like this as well). I think it would be awesome to add quests to these areas the Jintha'Alor treatment and turn them into huge elite quest hubs. I also wonder what other plans the devs had for areas in the open world. Personally my fondest memories of WoW are during the levelling journey and messing around in the open world. STV, The Shimmering Flats, or even just recently in SoD P1 the funny PvP that occurred due to horde travelling all the way to Stonewatch Keep for runes. Would love to hear your comments on cut open world content and what you think could be implemented!
Really sad when someone(s) worked hard on areas such as dungeons and other zones (pre-Cata hyjal). Only for them to be like "nah". I came across a few areas that are blocked off but if you manged to get into them, you can see how well design they were despite not being used in the open world. One example was when I did a video showing Big Blossom Mines and how, despite only fully being seen in phases, scenarios or dungeons. It's all there but a set of large doors prevents anyone from going in.
‘We got just a 10-man raid’ are we talking about the same Karazhan? What we got was awesome. You classic+ people need to realize that there often was a reason why something was not implemented even though it was finished: the quality was not up to standard. This was still the blizzard that would release something when they were satisfied. To be honest these classic + topics are getting crazy. Oh we hear a former vanilla dev say something about an obscure raid they worked on but never got released? wE nEeD iT iN cLassIC pLuS!!! Stop already
So "pretty much every expansion" completes a story started in vanilla. Really? Where did Pandaria begin in Vanilla? Where did BFA start in Vanilla? Where did Shadowlands start in Vanilla? Your assertion clearly isn't as true as you make it out, "pretty much every" is really "a few" isn't it?
BfA and Shadowlands to a degree did start in Vanilla, now how similar those plot points were to Vanilla are a whole different ballgame. For example Kultiras and the Zandalari, the "conclusion" to the faction war (very terribly done), and a few other things were based on old lore. Shadowlands as well, the Lands after Death, the mysterious "gods" in the realms of death, etc. Are all pretty old lore. I don't know how much inspiration they took from old lore to finish/make Shadowlands, but I hope to god they chose to ignore the notes, because Shadowlands was ass lmao. Pandaria is a joke from WC3/Vanilla, but the Mogu, etc, and all that content is definitely fresh ideas for sure, and aren't continuations of Vanilla.
Pandaren were a thing in WC3. In vanilla you can find Shen's lost kegs in the barrens. Pandaria was also the location where J'saarg was and where Aman'thul plugged him out of the ground and killed him. Kul'Tiras was a thing since WC3, the betrayal of Jaina, and the disregard of the alliance towards their needs made them separte themselves from the Alliance. Zandalari empire is constantly mentioned in vanilla ,Rhastakan was already kind of a legend with all the mentions the trolls do about their all-mighty emperor. You meet the Zandalari in the Zul'Gurub patch. All the threads for BFA were laid during vanilla and WC3 Shadowlands is realy the only forcible interjected lore in the wole WoW story. Is why is the worst expansion... They retroactively tried to force the Jailer into the lore. That said, and while Shadolands SUCKED HARD and nearly killed WoW, it left some actualy good concpets. The revendreth story line about redemption for some souls that actualy deserved it was good, specialy the questline with Kael'Thas. The Kyrians and the backstory for the spirit healers is also not bad and makes justice to some WoW lore. The rest is pretty much S grade shit. Ardenweald... the Winter Queen being sister with Elune is honestly laughable... is obvious they are on totaly diferent power levels, but they can just say they not sisters, just kinda like counterparts, and thats why she calls her sister or whatever.
One thing people never seem to undestand, specialy the Vanilla+tards, is that, if Blizzard had just developed what they had initialy thought, WoW would have been over since over a decade ago, and dead. Let me elaborate a bit: If for TBC they had just finished the zone of Hellfire Peninsula, as they had started in Vanilla... that would have been a very shitty and short expansion. You would have had ONE zone, with just The Black Temple as a raid or dungeon, as we saw in WC3 (In wc3, the black temple was located in hellfire peninsula) But instead we got HFP, with 3 awesome dungeons and a raid, we got Zangarmash with 3 more awesome dungeons and a raid, Netherstorm with 2 awesome dungeons, Arcatraz, and a raid... you see where i am going... Kara could have been a 5 man dungeon in vanilla as they planned.. a very mediocre one... with a few meh bosses, a dragon boss and the echo of Medivh as final boss... but because they waited, we got one of the best raids of all times... with some memorable encounters such as the Opera Event, Nightbane, Shade of Aran, and Malchezar, which has some of my favorite lines in wow.. i get chills when i heard "You face no Malchezar alone... but the legions i command!". Man that was a good raid! I can keep going... but the point is that, the delay of certain content made it so we got much much more then just a small piece of content. Grim Batol, as much as this dude criticizes it, it was one of my favorite heroic dungeons of all time. It may not have been as popular as a normal, ultralong dungeon. There isnt even a lot of actual lore to fill in as many encounters as BRD has. So what we got in the end, i think it was great! I wish people would stop screaming "vanilla plus" as if it was some kind of good idea... If Blizzard had developed the game as these people keep demanding they develop Vanilla+, we would have burned through that content in just a few years, and the game would be dead today, runing in maintenance mode. Look at SoD for example...
Classic plus is not happening let it go. Classis wow was not that great please remove the nostalgia glasses. I know new things are scary but lets actually play retail instead of blindly hating it for no reason ok.
Woah woah, chill out. It definitely could still happen depending ok execution. If OSRS is successful as it is Classic+ has potential. Whether devs would actually follow through- uhhhh…
