Crazy how electric changed the game. In 2010 you had to spend a minimum of 125K* to buy a sub 4 second car (*except for Nissan GTR), for a sub 3 second car you had TWO options, a 500k lambo or 3 million dollar bugatti.
BS... As a RCF owner, I can 100% say that replacement rotors are $100 each, pads are $300-700 for the set depending on the grade of pad. Compare the pads on an RCF to a C63... Good luck.. Lexus cost a tad more then Toyota's to maintain.
@@lockinhinddanger934 I always find it strange when you say midgrade gas but it's cause I'm from the UK , Our lowest gas is 95 octane with premium generally 98-99 octane. Same with oils just about all our oil is fully synthetic since we change ours once a year.
Smaller cars in Europe now have 1-litre 3-cylinder engine, plus turbocharger!!! 110 PS (81kW) (VW Polo TSI) My 10-year-old equivalent was 4 cyl, 1.2 litre, 105PS (75kW)
Yes, it feels so bad! You can't even go above 100kmph. If you do, you hear the turbo ranting throughout after that :( Where's the 3 litre naturally aspirated?
Agreed, I just worked on a mercedes c class "AMG". For an AMG car its quite sad to see a turbocharged inline-4 sitting there. The owner said he opted for the best option
Honestly I think supercharged cars sound better than turbocharged ones. It doesn’t take too much of the original noise from the engine, it keeps the feel of it, you get that added whine of the supercharger, and of course power to match.
Jordan Nolan whining lol. Just like in children, I prefer not to hear it. Turbos are pleasantly disrespectful n I love it. Snorting, sneezing and spitting at other vehicles.. 🤣🤣
If you’re not economically well off or don’t know how to work on your own car don’t buy a turbo you aren’t capable of taking care of one and it will cost you.
It would have been interesting if you had also talked about mean air density. I live at 5000 ft, so all things considered, a normally aspirated engine puts out about 15% less horse power. Whereas a turbo or super charged engine can maintain rated horsepower at elevations of about 8000 ft before they start to loose power.
This I always loved na buuuut I live in bc and losing more power the higher you go mean while the road is getting steeper and more curves lol bought turbo much more consistent in the mountains for sure
5000ft?? The highest point here is like 2000ft above sea level and I personally consider that already to be extremely high since I'm used to driving only 130ft above sea level.
Which is why a Swiss developed the first ever turbo for an aircraft and it went to 13,000ft and the pilots eyes froze shut. He landed it, blind, and rather than baulk about almost dying he immediately announced the success of the new device and how it vastly improved his aircrafts performance. The rest is history.
He was actually impersonating the sound a turbocharger makes when closing the throttle without a blow-off valve installed (off throttle compressor surge). blow-off valves make whoosh or pshhh sounds.
@@markproper9791 there are BOVs out there that are "sequential" such as some HKS and Greddys and do indeed make the exact sounds he makes. Understandably, they're often confused for compressor surge.
Then you want an older VW 8v or 16v engine. My '91 Jetta GLI has 330k miles on it. The head has never been removed. Other potential alternatives: Ford 300 cubic inch straight-six, Toyota 1UZ-FE (there's at least one with over a million miles), and probably at least a couple others that I am forgetting about.
3.4 v6 2003 Tacoma I’ll be at 300k next oil change. I love that old truck but I do want something new…. I just can’t bring myself to blow the money when I already have a reliable vehicle that I’m not gonna sell
I recently bought a new civic SI with that 1.5t mostly bc it was cheap and a manual and cool. I didnt realize I loved the turbo kicking in till I've driven it 3k miles. I love it when that acceleration hits and my steering wheel wants to go nuts and my car wants to generate lift. Turbos are fun man.
Yeah it's truth, you invent an attack on your state and then go to other states that have a lot of natural water and oil and kill them all because you want that.
Jeremy Clarkson once showed the difference between NA and turbo lag on _Top Gear_ by racing a minivan against a Mitsu Evo FQ400. Both were in 6 gear at a matching speed, and both floored it. The minivan pulled away whilst Jeremy was sitting there waiting for the turbo to spool.
That's not lag, that's boost threshold. The Evo is obviously losing to a short geared minivan if it is before it even has a third of its torque in a gear that gets it to the much higher top speed
The average consumer doesn't care about this. My Civic 1.5L Turbo has been more efficient and more reliable than many other cars I've owned, not to mention quicker than all of them.
To be fair, it's way cheaper to extract more power from turbocharged engine than it is from NA. For most of those just remapping them can give 30-50BHP, and way more than that with things like bigger IC, downpipe and air induction system. Even hybrid turbochargers cheap compared to turbo/supercharging NA engine.
There are advantages to both. I love my 1.8 TSI that gets 40mpg on the highway and 35 around town but has the torque and power when and where I want it. If you know how a turbo works there's very little lag as long as you anticipate the need for the boost
Make up the lost hp?!? Todays turbo 4 bangers are outdoing old big blocks in power and fuel economy. My ford escape has almost the same power aa my old 2v 5.4 expedition
@@102wingnut I agree mate. My turbo 2.0l in my genesis coupe gets 32.4 mpg when I go on trips. But has 276hp when I ask for it. Small, turbocharged engines are the way to go. Best of both worlds
Why cant you just say i dont like small turbocharged engines. I prefer large naturally aspirated engines. Thats basically whats happening here. You have a conclusion and are telling people why its right.
If that's the case, then if all the turbo lovers who claim "there's 'virtually' no lag!" were right, they'd be hugely popular with that type of American
As a fellow ME ( PhD in 85) who has built 5 turbo installations from scratch I will generally say your videos are pretty good. & granted pressures are higher as you said but you forgot one big fact. Gas runs by burning ( unless detonating) & diesels run by explosion. Big difference with regards to shock loading the engine components!
Could you explain? Seems like they both combust, creating pressure, pushing against a piston. Where's the important difference between burning and exploding here?
@@nthgth a gas engine uses spark, at a specific moment, to ignite the charge. If the initial compression ratio is too high, it ignites the charge due to the heat created by compression, too soon. This results in the charge detonating before the piston reaches top dead center where it's supposed to fire. Therefore you have pressure trying to push the piston down, on it's way up. This, at the least results in "spark knock". At the worst, it "hand grenades" the engine. A diesel engine relies on compression detonation, through compression, to fire ,or detonate the charge. That's why a diesel can handle boost at much higher compression ratios.
Yes! It's a small distinction, but a correct one. Less people attended the concert? No, fewer people attended the concert. Very common mistake (and I am definitely NOT some nanny about grammar, calling people out. It's just nice to get it right).
@@DrPacman You can have a full Kevlar vest, and airbag jackets, and you can walk off pretty much unharmed if you don’t get rolled over, and you have a chance of your bike not being wrecked up.
I drive a 2018 wrx, and I can definitely say the throttle is basically an on/off switch. It's very difficult to drive the car "normally". The slightest pressure and you're hitting boost. Many modern cars have a more sensitive throttle than I'd like, but the wrx takes that to the extreme. My previous car had a mechanical throttle that gave you tons of room and a smoother response. I do like my car, but they could have tuned that throttle to be a bit less sensitive.
You have the best background of any video! You are like on vacation all day everyday with those kind of roads. The information you are giving is a bonus. I am simply enjoying the ride. Thanks.
@@muskokamike127 superchargers actually have much more heat where it matters, the massive inefficiency is shown by intake temps being crazy without some sort of alcohol injection. Banks power actually just did a video on this not to long ago.
Natural aspiration just gives you a nice connection to the car in my opinion. It’s probably the sound and the throttle response that makes you feel more in control
I like how everyone makes fun of how the Civic R looks because of the wing, but this much much, more expensive Lexus looks like a luxury car that they bolted a wing from Wal-Mart on.
You should do a video on blow off valves and where to mount them. There has been a debate on mounting the blow off valve in the hot side piping vs the cold side piping and I think a lot of people would really love to hear what an engineer has to to say about the issue. Regardless if there is no difference. Or if there is a minimal difference.
I like that he emphasizes "delay". I do not know about others here, but I presume it take 1.0 seconds or less to reach a turbochargers rpm power band. It really depends on the turbocharger setup. NA motors are awesome, but if you want the crazier power numbers you need forced induction, unless you happen to be the happy owner of a 9.0L viper or high end Ferrari.
@@Got_Boost no that’s because honda originated as a motorcycle company and designs engines similar in that they rev higher than other cars and give power on top of the powerband. That’s why they sound different and have to be rev high to perform, but that’s why people think civic drivers can’t drive because the car is always screaming as designed.
IN THE 1980"S TURBOS WERE STRICTLY OIL COOLED AND WERE REPLACED (TYPICALLY @50-60,000 MILES ON VOLVOS) WITH TURBOS (NEWER FACTORY DESIGN) THAT HAD A WATER JACKET AROUND THE TURBO AND WE NO LONGER HAD COKING (OIL BURNED TO CARBON) ON THE BEARINGS, DOUBLED THE LIFE AND THE BOOST.
I wouldn't say Jason has no ego, maybe he's got a "correctly sized one" (provided there is such thing?!?) 🙄 The best part is that it seems that he's both got the knowledge and loves what he does 😁
I agree with all but point 5, I put one on a RB26, instant happiness 💯👏🏿 reliability is a *MASSIVE* factor for me, I want the car (especially if its one of my favorites) to last as long as possible, and if its boosted, then the longevity is reduced.
I've loved turbocharged engines after buying my first car after college, it was a Saab 9-3 aero, and at 205hp/230lbft and relatively low weight of 2850lbs it was quick in 2001.
@@ReggaeWise ...I think I agree, but I'm not sure what you mean by "real", are you referring to Porsche's Taycan "Turbo"? That was a terrible marketing move, imho, but they're badass cars. I've owned a 00 986 S, and replaced it with an '07 997 S. (Carrera S if the specific models are not familiar to you).
Ken Kalajdžič nope. The principles are the same with petrol. All 2019 petrol turbo cars are 11:1 compression ratio hence great low rpm throttle response.
@@kenkalajdzic I have a neighbor that has a diesel engine that is NA... TSI or whatever it's called... Don't know how well it works for him... But I do know that it's battery died a few times... It was in the winter...Didn't happen on ours...and our car is a TDI. :D
236 kw and only 350 nm of torque from a 3.2 6 cylinder isn't very impressive though, Turbo it and it'll have properly 100 kw more and double the torque, there's nothing N/A wise you can do to match that power.
The Ford 1.5 L Ecoboost engine in my Fusion seems to be pretty good with instant boost, and it gets really good gas mileage when you’re easy on the throttle.
@reshi p you are wrong I work on a fleet of over 30 Ford f1 50 with the 3.5 ecoboost and 4 have well over 300k and the rest have over 200k on them all running like new.i have been in the field over 20 years change the oil often with good oil and they will last! So next time before you comment on something you clearly don't know crap about do us all a favor just go ahead and stick your foot in your mouth! And the best part they all have original engines and turbos imagine that.
Mazda has perfected the turbo with their 2.5 liter skyactive G motor. No lag whatsoever and absolute perfect throttle response. CX-50 turbo is the new benchmark for performance in the SUV market.
I’m glad I bought my truck when I did. It was my last chance to get one with no turbo, no auto transmission, no cylinder deactivation or stop/start nonsense, no push-button start, no complex infotainment system with gps maps and such. It has a radio and cruise control.
Manufacturers love turbo's because they can claim CAFE standards within the fleet. Easier to make a car that gets good mileage when not pushed hard, which is what they care about.
Robert Mills turbos are better fuel economy, better mid rpm torque where people actually drive, in 2019 are all 11:1 cr hence great throttle reponse. Turbos dominatw all classes of motor sport where they are allowed. All commercial vehicles are turbo with turbo trucks typically doing 1M kms between rebuilds.
IIRC turbos are great at economy ... But only when you're babying it because you're basically running a tiny NA engine. When you put down power, well now you go from 2 L to 3L and it eats fuel accordingly, and then some to keep cylinders cool.
I am from germany i owne a 2006 cayenne turbo and i love it. The sound is brutal. Enough to give other peaple a heart attack whenn you are passing by and instantly push the throttle to max 👍
In Europe we like small engines with turbos,and they are fine as long as you service the car, my last small turbo engine had 160000,and was still strong.
Biggest reason to get a turbo is because exhaust enters it, witchcraft happens, and you go faster. OH also.... SSSSSSSTTTTTTUUUUUUUUUSTUSTUSTUSTUSTUTSU
@@ArchimaXed Most Diesel engines(cummins) don't even have throttle bodies so a BOV won't do a damn thing. A BOV is to prevent the turbo air stalling the blades and making then spin backwards(not efficient) when the *throttle body* is closed. To visualize the importance of a BOV for efficiency, Imagine coming off the gas and your tires start spinning the opposite direction and then you have to accelerate to get them to stop spinning the wrong way and start spinning properly. That is kind of the effect you get with a turbo without a BOV. Again most diesels don't have a throttle body so it's useless on them.
@@wyattlarrick3246 Maybe it does have a BOV, it probably has a hose routed to the air intake hose to redirect that extra air back into the intake system. Many OEM turbo vehicles are like that.
@@Arakij11 Yes, u mean 2012 BMW 550d series with a 3L Diesel tri-turbo 381HP. There´s already the 2017 version of this car with a quad-turbo built by Borg-Warner. A few more generations and this car has more turbochargers than cylinders haha
Living in Europe and living with my "sporty" 1.0 liter 120hp and watching that he is talking in a 5.0 liter daily driving car :)) I might be in a parallel universe!
The very first problem of the throttle needing to be consistent is quite simply laziness. You never want to bother learning your car. You want all cars to be the same and that simply makes cars boring!
I would be very interested in a video comparing turbo vs NA fuel economy at the same horsepower rating. For instance, take any Ecoboost and compare it to something with the same horsepower that is NA.
I have a '19 F150 3.5 Ecoboost. I love it. In Eco Mode with the 36 gal. tank, I get 600+ miles on the highway, and in Sport Mode, it's an absolute beast.
@@MrLordZenki I live in NJ next to NYC and there are plenty of open Highways and Interstates to cruise around. I used to live in Kansas City and I've driven across the states to Southern California as well as three trips from Midwest to North East. There are so many nice roads in Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and southern states.
@@andreasf3064 It's a fairly reasonable example Sometimes you might need to rely on that power to save your life What if you're about to get rear ended? With a huge turbo you may not get off the line fast enough
“This is America, I want it and I want it NOW!” Wait at the McD drive thru ordering line to place order. Wait to get to the pay window. After paying, wait to get the food. I think a little bit of turbo lag isn’t that bad.
@@muskokamike127 ok good point. A turbo will give you 2x Torque of the same engine N/A. You CAN however build a small displacement Turbo engine that will give you the same or higher torque as a larger displacement NA engine.
@Jose Martins just as an example my last car was a 1.8L that made 100hp and 105ft-lb. My new car is a 1.8 turbo that makes 184hp and 199lb-ft. The torque band kicks in at 2500rpm and is pretty flat up to redline. I know people have upgraded the turbo and tune to get well over 200hp. Oh and my new car gets 2mpg less on average than the old one. Still get 40 mpg on the highway.
@Jose Martins no it's two separate cars the new one is a Golf TSI. I understand it runs about 11-12 psi. I'm still running it stock with no mods so far. Maybe a tune up in the future... Once the warranty runs out lol.
My personal experience with turbocharged cars is that the gaskets, belts, hoses, and plastics degrade more quickly, the breather/PCV systems are very complex, and oil consumption is very high.
@@feez357 Engine sound given by Donut Media. Turbo by Engineering Explained... Yeah...you know which Donut Media video I am talking about... The Dodge Demon vid... With the BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! (Dodge Demon engine sound)
I drove a stock 2019 Mustang with 4cyl turbo engine. You couldn't tell it has a turbo. There was no lag or extra noise from the turbo. It didn't run some crazy temps and I was getting 24mpg on 87 fuel. Everything was so smooth, I loved driving that car, it was a lot of fun. Obviously 5.0 would be even more fun to drive, but now we're comparing apples to oranges.
That 4 cylinder turbo that ford made is actually quite powerful but be careful when driving with 87 fuel, u put full throttle u will destroy the engine due to knock and the engine will also be derated slightly when running 87(knock sensor)..... Try running it on 89 it be the best combo against cost of fuel and performance
Wait the ecoboost Mustang only gets 24mpg?? I hope you’re talking about city driving because it’s common now days for a V8 engine to get at LEAST 20mpg AVERAGE
@@WeightyLemur 2016 Golf R, has 90,000 km's on it. Year round daily driver in Canada. Makes 540whp and runs 10.82 seconds in the 1/4 mile. Stock turbo did blow, but it's a known issue and I haven't had a problem with the car other than that.
I've always heard that a naturally-aspirated engine is much more reliable not to mention two turbos build up so much heat get a naturally-aspirated engine with a manual transmission
Turbos are great when you're cutting into another lane. You cut someone off but instead of accelerating into space, with the delay you make them hit their brakes, and just as they start getting mad you take off. Combine throttle by wire, turbos, and an automatic transmission hunting for gears, the look on other people's face is priceless.
Sérgio Alves 2015 Ford Escape (turbo), 2017 Nissan Altima, 2018 Kia Soul. At least the Soul has a sport mode which seems to reduce the delay with kick down when maneuvering in city driving.
@@zipskippy433 They must all have some really shitty automatics because you can't tell me with a straight face that those cars have such bad turbo lag that you nearly crash into people in traffic. Or maybe you just can't drive the cars properly, you don't floor the throttle in 6th gear at 1200rpm on a small turbocharged engine. Do you americans realize that that in Europe like half the cars on the road are turbocharged? An no people don't crash them because of the turbo lag, and yes they do last hundreds of thousands of miles too.
@@zipskippy433 You're exactly the guy I like to have fun in with my Nitrous car :) Good luck with your so called driving style. Sounds to me that you'll be the one getting mad. LOLOLOL
I just sold my Honda CR-V. It had the 1.5L turbo "Earth Dreams" engine. There were endless reports of oil dilution ruining the engine. My CR-V never did anything other than return MPG numbers that were amazing! I, honestly, knowingly used the turbo about a dozen times in the 4 years I owned it. I decided to buy a Toyota Highlander. I needed better towing capacity. Honestly, I was very relieved, to buy a Toyota! Honda makes more, and possibly better engines. Toyota makes better vehicles. My MPG has been disappointing thus far. However, it is the nicest vehicle I have ever ridden in, and I also own it. I probably would have said that about my CR-V, and it would have been true also at the time. In sum, I am not a fan of sticking a small turbo 4 where an 8 or 6 should go. Honda might do it wellish, but nobody else can make one good. I understand that the manufactures are doing everything they can to meet US standards for efficiency. Toyota clearly has decided to achieve the numbers with hybrid and start stop technology.
Excellent video, gotta love the immediate throttle response of a good NA v8. Around 7:10 I think you may have a misunderstanding though. I don’t think the lower Static Compression Ratio (total volume at BDC vs total volume at TDC) manufacturers quote for turbo engines will actually hurt combustion efficiency. The reason being, the engine sees total, or Dynamic Compression Ratio (air density immediately before combustion vs atmospheric air density). Even though turbo engines tend to use lower SCRs (e.g., 9:1 instead of 11:1), the air has already been compressed by the turbo before it enters the combustion chamber. I think that would make up the difference. After all, the final pressure and chamber surface temperature right before the spark ignites is your limiting factor for a given octane fuel. In fact, using an intercooler will effectively compress the air further, enabling you to even get a higher DCR with a turbo engine than an NA engine. However, most of what I’ve just said goes out the window if a manufacturer’s tuning program cuts boost at low load to improve fuel economy.
I think thermal efficiency is mostly a function of the compression ratio (or decompression) during the power stroke. For ideal efficiency, you want the air in the cylinder to be at ambient temperature and pressure at the end of the power stroke. Any additional pressure and temperature is dumped through the exhaust and wasted (a turbo recovers some of that energy for powering forced induction, but that isn't power to the wheels). This is the idea behind the Atkinson cycle: a larger ratio is used during the expansion stroke than during the compression stroke, allowing the air in the cylinder to come closer to ambient pressures and temperatures, leading to greater efficiency. Forced induction and the resulting lower compression ratios do the opposite: the pressure and temperature at the end of the power stroke are increased, so there is more wasted energy, so lower thermal efficiency.
@@joopie99aa I have a Toyota V6 that runs in Atkinson mode at low load. It's a great compromise that gives real fuel economy benefit. I much prefer it to a small turbo engine or clumsy cylinder deactivation.
Roger Hinman turbo lag isn’t that bad anymore thanks billet compressor and turbine wheels, increased exhaust gas speed and layout, the bearings used and the such, they’re not really that complicated and they’re pretty reliable, my 01’ Audi S4 has never had the turbos maintained or replaced in almost 200k miles, and that’s almost 2 decades old, they’re honestly pretty efficient, not really complicated and they don’t really break unless you beat the piss out of them and even then you can beat on them but take care of them with proper heating and cooling cycles and change your oil.
Roger Hinman wake up mate. All commercial vehicles and heavy machinery are turbo for efficiency and reliability. Turbo trucks typically go 1M kms between rebuilds. All 2019 turbo cars have 11:1 compression ratio hence great low rpm throttle response. I have a factory 4L turbo Barra, and the torque @ 2000rpm is amazing.
