5 Things you need to make an MMO 

_"Yeah, but my game will be different."_

5 things you need to make an MMO: 1: gameplay footage of a game that doesnt acually exist 2: all the features people want, ever (but you know you will never be able to implement) 3: be as positive as possible to pull in the naive people 4: a kickstarter goal that is nowhere near the required amount needed to make the game 5: a clause on your kickstarter project that gives you the best possible defense in court

1. A breakup 2. A good friend 3. A great idea 4. A camera 5. A sofa

Person who made Stardew Valley said he was spending 10h a day everyday for 3 years.

"The ideas guy is not a position you want to fill" Ah well.....

If josh strife hayes really taught karate, that means my favorite youtuber is cannonically a ninja.

A longlife dream of mine, since I was a kid, has been to make a Runescape without the things I don't like about it. As I began studying computer science, the first aspect that I realised was completely unfeasible was the MM part, so my dream changed to making a glorious open-world RPG with meaningful skills and crafting, but single player. I knew from the start that I couldn't begin with an open world RPG, so I began making text adventures, then puzzle games and platformers, then a mini-roguelike (it was pretty much just a battle arena with an item shop - but it had AI, menus and persistence). Recently this old dream of mine has been flaring up. I've taken to game making once again and I'm learning a serious engine and working on a small puzzle game. This time I want it to be a full game - with all features and quality expected from a commercial game, even though I don't on making anything out of it.

I remember trying to make a card game as a teen. Just wrote what the card does on paper and stuck it in a card sleeve with a MTG card behind it.

I wasn't planning to make an MMO, but because it's Josh I'll still watch!

“I made a gravel walkway in my backyard by myself, so I’m now ready to build an interstate highway by myself” - if the ‘I’m making an independent MMO’ mentality were applied to construction.

As a software developer I can only encourage to try to build one at some point, at least the base technical stuff: A server software able to handle a lot of clients, develop some kind of protocol with op codes or whatever, make it fully authoritative, build some small client where you can move squares around, try to cheat it by using something like cheat engine and manipulating variables to see if you can detect and prevent it server side and so on. Its really a fun experiment, but don't go in with the mindset that "yes, I will build a great MMO!" because you really won't and will be disappointed. But as a technical exercise you will learn a lot :) Even more fun if you can get some dev buddies together and experiment with different methods, like agile development models and stick to the rules of it.

The best burn of the "idea guy" concept ever came from the audio commentary for "The Martian" between novel author Andy Weir and screenwriter Drew Goddard. Paraphrasing Goddard: "you hear a lot of people come up to you and say 'here's this great idea for a movie but the script is only so-so'. The script is what you pay for! Having an idea... it's not special"

Five things you need to make an MMO: 1 - A ton of money 2 - A second ton of money 3 - A third ton of money 4 - A fourth ton of money 5 - More than a snowball's chance in hell

Interesting fact here: There is actually a punk band in Hungary which consists of musicians who initially couldn't play any instruments, but they got pretty good and they became one of the most famous punk bands here. They are called "HétköznaPI CSalódások" which basically means "Ordinary Disappointments" but reading the last 2 letters of the first word and the first 3 letters of the second word together gives you the word for "ass"

I agree. I have been trying to explain this to my kid. I started writing a game for her to play with her friends and she immediately wanted it to be an MMO. I KNOW I can't write an MMO by the simple fact that I am one guy and I don't write games for a living. There are not enough hours in a day.

Josh: "here are the 5 things you will need" RU-vid: ** rolls geshin impact ad **

The only Channel where i actually want a notification when there is a premier

How to make Korean MMO: Step 1: Have money Step 2: Copy other korean MMO Step 3: Add bunch loot boxes, gacha mechanics and autoplay Step 4: Profit

Plot Twist: Josh is working on his own MMO!

Starting a band with your friends because you all like music but none of you plays an instrument is exactly how basically every Punkband ever started. :P

I started from going to GDS - [Game Dev School]. As i was taught in GDS - Ideas are cheap. Marketing is a biatch. Completed game is around 160% work - where 60% is deleted in a process

An mmo needs a big team and budget. Somewhere, the Gower brothers are laughing/crying at their beginnings

Sherwood Dungeon, Love and 8BitMMO are some examples of MMOs made by a single person. It can be done with enough effort and will.

I can't even fathom the level of monetization the League of Legends MMO will have.

Currently making a game for university and I’m struggling with a point and click lol

I got some 2x4's, nails and a hammer in the garage. I am qualified and can start working on player housing right now.

This should be required viewing for potential devs BEFORE they post their Kickstarter. And then it should be required for potential patrons before they give money for an MMO to a Kickstarter.

Was worried this list would be stuff like "fun gameplay" and "cool races/classes" but im glad you hit us with the real truth aspiring devs need to hear

This should be a Public Information video broadcast by the BBC.

I don‘t give a damn about mmorpgs, but I got hooked on this channel. Your presentation and speech alone is worthwile

Great video! This applies not only to people who want to make MMOs, but pretty much any game. If you are starting out, your first project will suck or fail and most probably both. Those who ultimately went and made gigantic games, are those who failed enough times.

Thanks Josh for listening. I am excited for this episode.

I have a degree in computer science. I have written dozens of games that are played by 1000s people everyday. I would not even think of writing an MMO without a lot of help. That help can be money (to hire help) or finding people that are willing to work up front for a piece on the back end - people like me. Unless you personally have money, you are going to have to give away part of the back end no matter what. You need some people right away - programmers and artists. A lot of the other people Josh mentioned are down the road. A 3+ year development time means marketing is not really necessary for a while. You can and must create a Proof of Concept - and that can be done with just a few people.

I think you honestly need to add luck to the requirements. So many things can go wrong in a 5-year project.

If someone is interested in building an MMO, if just for the experience- They could start with a small text-based MUD for themselves and their friends. Great way to learn how to build mechanics, worlds, and networking without worrying about going all out.

"Star Citizen development" with no end in sight, gave me a chuckle =P

Yo JSH, do you like Xenogears on the PS1?

From someone that has actually lead many successful teams. (this is to say teams that set multiple records within their companies) I would definitely have to add to the reviewers list. 1. Realistic production goals- Daydreams are lovely. But, they don't keep the lights on. In my industry the most common method to arrive at them used to be something called "time studies." A client would make a request. Before you ever let it get to a salesman you literally got folks together and, saw how much time based on a believable pace it took to complete the task. From this you could assess real labor costs. etc. Once you knew how much time and effort under believable conditions it took, you passed that on to those going to the bargaining table. Not doing the above was a lovely way to get yourself a money sink account. (to those wondering believable is literally the speed your experience told that you could get folks to work at) 2. Communications skills- I DO NOT mean the ability to post to social media product 394. I mean the ability to actually communicate to effectively the tasks and goals. Guess what most days that don't involve college level English. A life time of working with teams has shown me most folks respond best to things being made as simple as possible. Sounds simple but, allot of times it means learning how to lower the discussion without talking down to anyone. Trust me it's a Hell of allot easier to say than do. I'm a fairly educated cat. But I'm also a hick from a small town. Take a wild guess which of those two things works better for communication with a team. 3. Effective leadership- Once again a real easy thing to say. But, not so easy to do. Getting to actually know your team takes time. Learning how to motivate and, inspire them is a a job in it's own right. But you'll never have a successful team if someone doesn't give it at least rudimentary direction. Oh yes and the even less fun part of said leadership the accountability, that's to literally everyone. You bosses, your team, you clients, this list goes on. The other really fun part is having to actually be the one presenting your boss with can actually be done as compared to what the picture in their mind is. Trust me good leads are damn rare. 4. The ability to fail- Yepp, I said it. If you actually want to be able to get to the point of succeeding you'd best be able to fail. If one failure is going to kill you, stick to what's paying your bills. Because failure is part of the formula to any businesses success. Henry Ford failed an insane amount of times before he created what today is a world recognized brand name. It's why you see fleet of Korean and Chinese release and damn few Western releases. They have figured out successful business models for themselves and, can afford the take the risk. They have real capital to burn. In the end the idea of doing anything is wonderful. But always and forever finish the thought. Because half finished ideas just don't lead to good places.

First time seeing someone hold a cup for aesthetics

This is absolutely applicable to practically anything people want to do to make money.

Josh, I absolutely adore this video and now consider it my favorite of yours. This breakdown of the economic realities of MMO development was incredibly insightful and i would love to see more videos somewhere along these lines. I always throw on one of your videos as something to listen to while folding laundry or doing any other menial task. Your voice is always very easy to listen to and your scripts are both clear and to-the-point. Thanks for the content!

The good, thoughtful, experienced, and depth of understanding "ideas guy" seems to be in short supply based on much of what we've seen in the genre. Perhaps game companies should be looking a little more for those folks, and perhaps a little less for the marketing guy.

Well it's not rare that Sean Bean's character got killed again. This time along with an entire game.

1: experience with game design 2: experience with network design 3: software development experience 4: time, partners and or money. 5: did someone say time?

I couldnt agree more. As soon as someone even asks "I want to make an MMO! What do I need?" or "How do I make an MMO?" the battle is already lost, because anyone who is remotely capable of participating in such a project would know the answers already (or putting it that way: only those who know the answers already can hope to be capable of tackling that scope). It's tragic and sometimes frustrating but great ideas are worthless without a specific and detailed plan on how to realize them. I've been battling the scope of my game projects for 10 years now and scrapped countless ones until I recently published my first and until now only "game", which is just a tiny math puzzler made in two days. But that's how you start. I just saw Kiras video about "Project Steel" that perfectly showcases how this MMO ambition is either based on arrogance or ignorance (or its just a scam, who knows). One possible way I can think about, could be to create a small limited but playable MVP with working multiplayer features and trying to pitch that to a larger publisher and see if they would take on it.

*FIVE THINGS YOU NEED TO MAKE AN MMO* 1. Money. 2. More money. 3. Even more money. 4. Definitely money. 5. Did we mention money?

To my knowledge there is one single example of a group of friends who liked games, getting together and successfully making and publishing an MMO. The group of friends in question were all MIT Grad students studying in core related fields. The game was Asheron's Call. I think a few of them picked up the key needed skills at MIT while helping develop Military Simulators. MMO's are what can at best be thought of as having "High Bars to Entry".

Now thats a man with confidence. You speak and present your videos so well

I made non-MMOs aka MUDs in the 90s. My most successful one was a starwars based mud with 50-100 players every day. Back when games were fun, good times.

Wow. TIL about Adam Bohn. Loved AQ as a kid, then remember loving DragonFable in my early teens. What an inspiration.

Thanks a lot for such a great advice !!

These videos remind me of those times when my dad would sit me down and tell me he was very, very disappointed in me.

meanwhile. players like: i want a free to pay and no micro transaction with the best ingame experience, continues update, dungeon, realistic ingame graphic, i want the best. as long its for FREEEE. buying ingame items big or small = salary. its a business.

Love this, this is so true for any industry not just games

really appreciate the honesty!

a realistic perspective and good advice ! One of the things most angel investors, people that work with startups, or people specialised in innovation will tell you, is: a very good idea is probably less than 1% of your project… It all comes down to how a team executes that idea XD From my own experience I will say 1M is not enough (even as a bare min) and the dev timeframe for a full-time team could be 5y upwards… of course it depends on the scope of the project. If it's a "conventional" RPG and the world needs to be populated by NPCs and stories… those amounts are likely to tripple… A larger team, can shorten the timeframe but will increase the costs… and larger teams can be less efficient than smaller teams… AlI in all I would say the most important trait to be able to make any game, are the skills and knowledge, which can be honed with a lot of work and authentic fascination for the art. Will let you know how acquiring a player-base as an unknown studio works out ;)

Still waiting for someone to make a monster girl quest mmo.

That was actually, really really helpful. Thanks for the amazing content!

love how brutally honest you are. XD thanks i needed to hear this before i jump into something that'll only hurt me in the long run!

I can't help but think about Valheim during this video. Seems to be the perfect compromise for a small team and a great game.

Finally a comment section I can add some value to! I am the lead developer on a hobbyist MMORPG project. My team has me as the sole software developer, and two writers. Often when you see advice like what is in the video, there will be people that balk at it. You always hear stuff like "well, there are fully 3D MMORPGs made by solo developers" or "technology is in a place where making games is fast and efficient". Both of those statements are true, but when you dig in deep you find that they have massive caveats attached to them. Most solo developed MMOs are either crap, or have insanely long dev times. Games like Project Gorgon are amazing, but they are going to be in perpetual alpha. Games made very quickly using store-bought assets may or may not be good, but they will never stand out. If you want to make an MMORPG as a solo dev, or as a very small team, you need to either accept that your project will be a labour of love that you will never see a sane return on, or you need to accept that your scope will be very limited, and you need to focus in on one or two things in order to stand out in a crowded market. The MMORPG I am making is largely text based (it's not a MUD though, it has graphics, a UI, representations of your surroundings, visual combat etc), and coded using a framework I developed for it. You can see some screenshots here: i.imgur.com/Ke5olDW.png i.imgur.com/Ktt3acT.png I am targetting this at a very, very niche audience. Many corners have been cut in presentation in order to implement complex mechanics. If I paid someone with my skillset to make what we have so far, it would STILL have cost more than $100,000. Given that there are probably less than 1000 people in the world that would even be interested in this game, you can see why commerically speaking, most smallscale MMOs are non-starters.

Great vid. And the audio is sounding much better!! Thanks man 👍

I know I'm really late for the party. But if I get there one day, will be most thanks to you. Not just that one video but all of them, keep the good work and thank you.

Amazing video. Amazing quality. Amazing insights. Spicy, yet gentle: like the hand of a fond, guiding, friend. Leonine. Color corrected. Also: Is Josh hinting he's going to be going into bodybuilding at 12:17? Given his background in martial arts and his gun shows in recent videos, I suspect this is just the first stage in his evolution...

1. An excessively large ego 2. No ability to judge one's own talent 3. Game idea / Promo video that simply promises everything 4. No background in video games development 5. K I C K S T A R T E R

Great video, excellent way of introducing in-experienced individuals into making of huge projects.

TOTALY AGREE! i thought about all this before, and it can be overwelming when you start taking all into consideration

Newbie game developers who wants to start right in the mmo genre is like watching the newly junior co-worker looking at the CEO's chair just because he believes in himself without investing money in your ideas or time in your own career to make this possible. they want to be at the top without losing time with the stairs

Just to add, this great advice by our host here can be, and should be, applied to anything in life. Thank you Josh Strife Hayes!

So glad I found your channel. Love your topics with exceptional diction and clarity. Take it as a compliment when I say, you remind me of TB, and I admit the accent helps things. Thanks, keep it up.

When I worked for a small startup, I volunteered to make a few games as an attraction for our booth. One was a puzzle that taught regular expressions, and the other was a social engineering simulator. What amounted to roughly 20 minutes of "gameplay" for the players took roughly 360 hours. I had a two months, and I literally lost weight from sleep deprivation. And I already knew how to program and use Unity. I can't imagine doing all that from the aspiration stage. And in an MMO my two games would only actually be the menu system and the NPC dialog system. So yes, these estimates sound about right.

Imagine you want to start a RU-vid channel and instead of a small camera and a desk you decide to build an entire studio with green screen and a rail way camera for action shots. Now imagine starting game design and u decide to create what is the equivalent of a block buster movie

1) "The best and last game you will ever play" 2) 0 Years of Dev Expierence 3) "It's like totally different from other MMOs you guys" 4) Sell Players land or noticable ingame changes for money 5) A small loan of a few million dollars

Great video, it gives a realistic starting point for anyone seriously thinking about jumping into it.

Awesome vid. I agree with everything you said, yet I feel like you just gave me a pep talk to start making a solo MMO. Lets GO!

As a fun pastime, I've recently taken to designing elements of an MMO set in the world I've created for the novels I'm writing. I know that it will most likely never get made, as I would first need to win the lottery in becoming a famous author, earn a ton of money, make connections in the video game industry, assemble a trustworthy team, and then convince people to take a risk on an MMO using my IP. Statistically speaking, that just won't happen. But it's fun to think about how to translate my writing into an online game like WoW. It's an exercise in thinking about game design and balancing in-universe rules with gameplay mechanics, and I just really like picturing it even knowing it will only ever be in my head. It always makes me a little sad to see people passionate about the genre just like me trying to make their dreams a reality when they're in a similar situation to me. This is absolutely not a project to take lightly, and even if you think you're up for the challenge, you probably aren't. This is a great video outlining exactly why MMOs are such a huge investment in time, money, and skills, and I hope it makes at least one would-be team reconsider their prospects. Keep it up!

Two MMOs I would absolutely love to see reviewed by you; Maplestory and Final Fantasy 11. I've seen both in your intro, so I assume you know how both have changed -dramatically- I love and hate both of these games

Good shit man! love the content

This is the video that I needed to hear, thank you greatly for making it.

This is the most underrated channel on youtube

I'm really excited for the AI that can generate code, images, sound, and models, all from simple descriptive prompts and rough sketches These do exist, they are in their infancy, and the results are nevertheless stunning

Pro-tip: There are a plethora of open source animation libraries of motion captured movements. You can save money there.

Amazing video. Definitely going to recommended it to people if they want to make an mmo.

how are you so good looking seriously

very informative video, but the type of person who needs to see this is already in too deep to look for it.

Fantastic as always!

nice video josh ,very good points.i agree

My friend convinced me to give Project Gorgon a try and to look past it's rough and unpolished visuals....All I can say, my god I forgot how awesome MMOs can be when you just give players a bit of freedom. It really encourages you to explore and try out new things and not having to just follow an arrow to your next target objective is such a minor thing but liberating. Themepark games like WOW have really spoiled the genre because that is how players now expect MMOs should be when all it really does is limit the creative freedom of what the genre use to be. Classic was great for it's time because it melded both the more traditional approach to various convenient aspects but after TBC they took that convenience and went 120% with it and just killed that whole immersive feel to it.

Link this video to creator of DreamWorld, maybe he will invent a time machine, travel back in time, save the relationship with his ex and start working as a Starbucks barista.

I’ve made a small web based music rpg for fun before. I can draw, and program. It took weeks to make just a few levels and fights in my spare time. If you just have ideas but no skills it’s gonna be rough to jump to a full project.

It's easy to solve the player base. Make something that looks good and then participate in a trade show. E3, TGS, etc. Advertise. As long as you make it look good and interesting and then show it off you can get people hyped. Once you get people hyped this will allow your game to build its player base. Have name recognition certainly helps whether that belongs to the IP or the makers, but more fundamental is just making a good, interesting and fun to play game and them showing that off to a wide audience is enough to build up the player base. As long as your game sparks an interest in the viewer you are pretty much golden here and then need to make sure your game is fun and not broken to keep them coming back day in and day out.

I kind of feel it's a little unfair to label MMOs as MMORPGs. Yes, MMORPGs are MMOs, but not all MMOs are MMORPGs. Someone wanting to make a massively multiplayer online game needn't look to WoW or ESO for cost references--there are many unexpected titles across so many hybrid genres, such as MMOFPS games etc., that are all MMOs and not just MMORPGs as you've looked to. I do agree with the list of requirements overall, but I feel the suggested costs and development time to be more in-line with modern MMORPGs and not so much with the significantly broader MMO family. Additionally, the video focuses on what would appear to be PC and/or console development, and doesn't consider the markedly lower overheads and entry requirements for mobile gaming--plus all the perks, general practices, and lessened expectations that come with the platform. The list certainly would apply to a breakout MMORPG for PC or console, 100%, but I think it has little relevance for MMOs in general as titled, or for mobile development.

"Having an idea, isn't enough - everyone has ideas. Ideas are only valuable when given to people with the ability to make them a reality." - I am writing this shit down to use it at work. Thanks Josh!

Josh is rockin that Harry Potter Goblet of Fire Haircut in this one lol Love your content man Keep it up

im glad i found this vid/reality check.. ty.. i was looking for a vid that would tell me something like "these are youre engine options, those are the language options... etc. etc..." but this was what i needed to hear.. i got time.. but no money, team (but could be arranged) or a playerbase... and skill.. not too much still working to get better there.. sooo ... ty..

One thing I've seen that may be a shortcut for some, I've been on private emulated servers for popular MMORPGs that already exist, and some of those servers have completely changed all the NPCs, weapon stats, the story, and names of places to sort of half - butted create their own world.

Making an MMO is the final boss of the hardest max-level dungeon of game-development, it is something you need to prepare and gear up for, and is not something you can just solo within any reasonable degree. Not to mention, with all the risk, you only get to attempt this dungeon once.

Thank You!!! Now if I would dare to share this with "my team" :)

I somewhat agree, but still there are some points (little background - I'm a developer (running my own company for 10+ years), Master's degree in software development/3D graphics, while mostly in commercial areas and engine development, I worked on games in the past). I was indirectly involved in MMO development by working on engine/networking for disclosed title (the project has been cancelled). The problem with money is relative - investors exist, crowdfunding (as mentioned) exists, costs can be higher or lower based on what you need to pay for. There is one thing not mentioned - MMOs have high running costs. Even in development you need development server(s) running. Testers are going to need another one. Then you have production servers. This is going to be a major part in budget. Technical difficulty is heavily underestimated. While "buy an engine" is an advice - it is very likely major parts of code need to be written from scratch - networking is likely going to be one of them. General rule applies - either you are skilled enough or you need to hire somebody skilled enough. Individual making of MMO is possible. Vast majority of people who went for it have failed. Those who succeeded had realistic goals from the beginning - and went step by step. ... It all boils down to: "Set realistic goals, and do it step by step." I heavily recommend to every team that is not professional - to try to make a small game for a game jam or anything. You will either pass and make a game, or fail and realize that you won't be able to do anything bigger as a team. It is often short-term (mostly from just 48 hours to weeks) and small game (realistic goals!). I personally sometimes still participate in jams - as there is no better feeling that finishing something.

It’ll be cool to play multiple classes instead of the same typical mmo class, something that is unique