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5 tips Pilots Need to Know to avoid my bad AirVenture Arrival incident(s)

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It's what happened AFTER the wrong direction landing Go Around that really put me in a bad spot.
This episode shares 5 tips (plus a bonus 6th tip) to help every #pilot fly into AirVenture safely. One of which I don't think is addressed well enough in the notice / NOTAM.
Here's the 2024 notam/notice link:
www.eaa.org/ai...
Stop by the IAC base for a fist bump and some Flight Chops swag, and if you're there Wednesday my talk is at 1pm
This episode is dedicated to my step brother Michael Jurkiewicz's - If you'd like to donate toward his celebration of life, it would be greatly appreciated.
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And / Or:
Donations to the Canadian Aviation Museum will be put toward the missing man formation flight - we're aiming to have the Harvard, a Chipmunk and the RV-14 fly over the event.
(feel free to anonymously comment below or email me if you donated, as I don't think there is a way on the site to indicate it is made in someone's name - flightchops at gmail dot com.)
Jessica is speaking about her story and the latest updates on The Impossible Airplane at Forum Stage 5 at 10:00 a.m. on Monday.
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SimVenture is running July 11 - 14, if you've got a home sim set up - this is a MUST do thing even if you're not planning to fly into AirVenture for real.
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FLIGHT CHOPS DISCLAIMER:
I am a "weekend warrior" private pilot, I fly for fun with no intentions of going commercial.
I have had my PPL for over 20 years, but still consider each flight a learning experience
- I generally take detailed notes after each flight to remind myself what went well or what I could do to improve....
Having GoPro cameras to record flights like this is invaluable.
I find these self analysis videos very helpful in my constant quest to improve, and am happy to share.
Feedback is invited; however, please keep it positive.
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Опубликовано:

5 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 165

@blancolirio Месяц назад

Excellent Tip #3 (9:10) Be ready upon arrival to execute the departure procedure and know the altitudes beforehand. The entire Notice is 32 pages long! Good time for CRM! Steve- add a link to the Notice above. Jb.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Here's the notam/notice link, and I'll edit the description later to add it there too. www.eaa.org/airventure/eaa-fly-in-flying-to-oshkosh/eaa-airventure-oshkosh-notam

@superpilotish Месяц назад

Most importantly, you kept flying the plane! 👍 With high workloads, pilots can neglect airspeed, forget to switch fuel tanks, forget landing gear, etc.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

For sure yes. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.

@JustPlaneSilly Месяц назад

1. Very sorry to hear about your loss. 2. Mad respect for your humility but I do think you might be being a little hard on yourself. 3. Good job keeping your head on. I had heard about this rumbling through the crowd last year at Oshkosh. 4. I really like you pointing out the difficulty of the initial merging into the conga line. For me that is traditionally the most stressful part. See you at airventure. Fly safe!

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Hey, thanks for watching to the end 👊 And I hear ya, but being hard on myself is kinda my brand 😂 Stop by IAC if we don't find each other elsewhere.

@goatflieg Месяц назад

@@FlightChops Man, can I ever relate to that "hard on yourself" bit.

@davidallan9624 Месяц назад

Sorry to hear about your loss. Very sad that he left such a young family.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Thanks for watching to the end. And yes, it is gut wrenching.

@davidallan9624 Месяц назад

@FlightChops I lost my brother in an accident many years ago when he was only 24. He had a wife and two year old, with another on the way. A hard hard time for everyone. I'm sure that you'll be holding everyone close.

@orenkatzen5697 Месяц назад

I think you're being a little hard on yourself, Steve. ATC didn't yell at you, they gave you an instruction. Just because people know your voice and your callsign doesn't mean you're not allowed to make mistakes. Don't hold yourself to an unreasonably high standard

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Appreciated. It’s honestly just embarrassing that I found myself in that position, and I wanted to share the pain for others to learn from 😂🤷👊

@Apollo580 Месяц назад

@@FlightChops And you are doing exactly what any professional pilot would do. Learning from it and doing better next time!

@4alphazulu Месяц назад

@@FlightChops We all learned something from this. My plane is coming in on Thursday before the show. I have a 2nd pilot on board, and we've already briefed the arrival, what we're doing, and what we will do on a wave off on final. We will execute the published VFR departure, head back to Fisk and try it again. Seems like the safest course of action.

@87bones87 Месяц назад

What a tremendous learning tool. I agree with Chops being hard on himself. As a FF, I once heard from and older guy, I'm not yelling at you, I'm excitedly telling you what I need. Usually the more excited he told me, the more excited my movements were. Criticism can be great to learn from too if given correctly. Chops does well with this I think and his followers too. Like offering a similar feeling on the fire ground. Great job Chops! I know your arrival this year will be your redemption!!

@coldnebo Месяц назад

@@FlightChopsit’s ironic, but someone asked Cathy and David about go arounds during the SimVenture Q&A and they agreed, follow the departure procedure. It was after the Saturday practice. I agree the notam should mention that- way too hard to figure that out in the moment. You outlined all the pressures that real pilots face on the approach, weather, dissimilar “formation”, situational awareness and operations in slow flight… wow. There’s always something more to brief, but great job!

@thunderbolt513 Месяц назад

I'm so sorry to hear from your brother, Steve. May his soul rest in peace. My condolences to all the family.

@quintincairncross1088 Месяц назад

Sorry for your loss. This is a very honest video. I would make one comment on what I have seen here overall. Things often do go wrong in aviation. It can be very difficult to put that behind you and concentrate on what is happening now and what needs to happen in the next few seconds and minutes. Avoid the temptation to be distracted by re-hashing in your mind what has just gone wrong. Doing so detracts from your capacity to ensure that the recovery from the undesired state goes right. It happened, move on. There will be plenty of time to review the mistake on the ground over a coffee or something cold. Great job.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Thanks for watching to the end. 👍 And yes for sure, I cringed watching myself debrief with Katie while we were still in the thick of it… but it was good to have captured, and I’m happy to humbly share it for others to learn from.

@markthibault8579 Месяц назад

Sorry for your loss. And, thanks as always sharing these experiences.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Happy to share and thanks for watching to the end.

@qc8302 Месяц назад

I can't think of anything I respect more than seeing the pilots I look up to, own a mistake and teach from it.

@gbsorenson Месяц назад

We had an adventure last year too. We flew in Thursday morning, ended up getting turned back at or before Fisk 5 times, first two just to Green Lake, second two to Puckaway, then all the way back to Endeavor. When we landed and taxied to the south forty 😞, the lineup of planes waiting to leave was all the way back to the south fence! I swore I was done, never coming back......now I can't wait to fly in on Wednesday the 24th! 🙂

@bigironbois Месяц назад

I Wasn't even in the cockpit but I was stressed watching!

@philbirk Месяц назад

Thanks for sharing this video. It will help somebody. I had a similar experience two years ago at KOSH. I nearly wound up flying in the "red box" as well. Afterwards, I came to the same conclusion that you have... fly the departure procedure on a go-around. It seems obvious now but it was not obvious in the moment. Also, sorry to hear about your brother. I'll be praying for you guys. Godspeed.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Glad you found this one helpful, and thanks for watching to the end.

@Tracomaster Месяц назад

Steve: mad respect for not only being honest with yourself, but also making such a detailed explanation about it in public.

@GaryCameron Месяц назад

The controller probably wasn't too mad at you, just operating at 200% workload. It's crazy how they get so many planes in and out of there without more accidents

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Agreed yes - the controllers were at capacity (or exceeding it) in this case. I'm just frustrated I gave them an other thing to worry about.

@DonMarcoHH Месяц назад

The main thing I took from this, was: Don't debrief while on operation. But in that second I realized it, you said it on video! Realizing your mistakes makes you a better person (and pilot).

@miloswanson9646 Месяц назад

OMG, The ONLY time I flew into Airventure was back in the 1975. Back then, it was less than half of what the chaotic mess it is today! We were a flight of two, one of my Boy Scout Explorer advisors with three passengers in his Stinson 108, and me in the right seat of our C-150 (the other advisor/instructor in the left seat). You've also gotta remember that this was the era BEFORE headests were common in GA. All we had in our C-150 was the wingroot speaker above the left-seater's head! Talk about STRESS!

@goatflieg Месяц назад

Nobody can really prepare for what happened; you were very deep in the eye of a perfect storm. You used all the tools at your disposal, including the blessing of a copilot to help disseminate the flood of unanticipated information coming at you. You were shoved into a nightmare and all the players did their best to cope; other pilots, controllers, even the guy that caused it all. I feel so blessed that I had two relatively smooth OSH arrivals in two years. I also made some mistakes that I was able to learn from after reviewing my own videos. Last year I had the same experience in the conga line, following two STOL aircraft that probably could have done 90 knots, but just didn't. I ended up breaking out of line and fortunately I had a large gap behind me so I circled around and got back in line long before any controllers were involved (yeah I know that's not the correct procedure but it was the wisest and safest course of action at the time so I took it). The only bit of advice I can offer: plan to arrive before noon on the Thursday before OSH starts; it's quite a bit easier then. That being said, you have a lot of good stuff to offer in this one and I hope many people can learn from it, including the controllers! This experience is hopefully the worst you'll ever have to face.

@iansmith1368 Месяц назад

Thanks for the video Steve. I love your content and debriefs on your flights. This is so valuable for all pilots. I'm sorry for your loss, we'll be praying for you and your family. Fly safe my friend ✈️ 👍

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Appreciated 👊

@mikev1822 Месяц назад

Great video and good tips! Condolences to you and your family for your loss. As a controller during OSH we do encounter quite a bit of unusual situations. Go-around are complicated because of what’s happening at the airport at that time. Hard to give 1 concrete procedure when it can change because of the traffic scenario. Reverting to the departure procedure was probably the best idea, at or below 1300 till you exit the delta. Welcome to Oshkosh! See you next year!

@NatesRandomVideo Месяц назад

Don’t be too hard on yourself. As a CFI one of the most common situational awareness items I see in pilots that gets neglected is pre-planning and briefing exactly where they’re going on a go around (minus other instructions). The other is truly planning takeoffs including where you’re going with power loss. Can just use it as you have, as a learning experience and add the briefings to your routine. Condolences on your loss. Never easy.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Thanks!

@tonylee6300 Месяц назад

Thank you for sharing this Steve. As usual, excellent real world content. My sincerest condolences for your loss.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Glad you enjoyed the raw realness of this one.

@pilotedgeATC Месяц назад

Excited to see you flying at SimVenture with us!

@MENSA.lady2 Месяц назад

Reminds me of the UK PFA rallies in the 1980s. Pilot trying to land A Beech Baron among dozens of cubs and similar. The tower told him "Sir, Your'e about number 43 in traffic. Land at your own discretion. He did, after 5 go rounds.

@svbeautimous4576 Месяц назад

Thanks for making this. Hopefully you can influence next year’s NOTAM him because you’re not the only one that had a problem when the air traffic control said leave the pattern without further instruction

@clarencewiles963 Месяц назад

Sorry for your loss. It’s hard to go into a departure with a wrong way Pilot. Just keep your eyes open for what happens and work your best for the flight out. I’m glad it did work out for you. You can’t plan everything.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Thanks. And it is true I’d have had to deviate a little to get around the wrong way guy, but it still would have worked a lot better to get back on runway heading and just fly the published departure procedure instead of improvise which is ultimately what I did 😬

@highland1318 Месяц назад

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Your humility and professionalism are inspiring. Sincere condolences on the loss of your loved one. Cheers!

@clearofcloud2038 Месяц назад

Very stressful but well done on keeping your head and being responsive throughout. Echoing @Blancolirio, on flights like that think like a musician on a gig - let any perceived mistake go, the next note is the important one so don't let yourself be distracted from the tune !! Keep up the good work and the authenticity. I'm sorry for your loss - take care and be kind to yourself - everyone's grief is unique.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

I like the musician analogy. And thanks yeah, it’s been a surreal and hard time adjusting to losing Michael.

@delacyscott6515 Месяц назад

absolutely loved how calm and professional you were! give yourself some grace you did a fantastic job navigating through all that. i know I would have freaked out a bit haha.😅 also im so sorry for your loss!

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Appreciated, and thanks for watching to the end. 👏

@julianwelz4450 17 дней назад

Thanks a lot for this video and debrief. I'm only a simpilot with X-Plane 12, but made it @ Vatventure 2024 a Oshkosh-Event on Vatsim mostly about 1-2 weeks earlier as the real event. Also a great possibility to excercise the ARR to KOSH during EAA. I loaded the actual KOSH Notam and worked it a week before the event. The Vatsim ATC makes here also an absolute great job. With my C172 it was real fun to fly this and well prepared it's possible to do it also solo. Yes I know in real life it's something else and much more difficult.

@johngilbert1325 Месяц назад

Just clicked flight radar fisk arrival. Randomly saw and clicked an RV-14 on short final to touchdown. Turns out, it was you... Small world. You made it!

@ezflyr4573 Месяц назад

My Lesson Learned in the Long Ez is to fly the 135 Kts and 2300’ approach to FISK. Flying this approach avoids the slow flying aircraft till after FISK. Typically, the landing from the higher approach is 9/27. I have been flying the high approach for 25 years, after getting caught behind a Cherokee and getting so slow I experienced a canard stall buck. BE SAFE.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Oh yeah totally. Last year I finally gave up on the low slow arrival and did the high arrival - and it still took 2 tries + holding 😂 before I got past Fisk

@StanfordJohnsey Месяц назад

The RV-14 will easily fly the 90kt approach.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

@@StanfordJohnsey - The RV-14 can definitely fly the 90 knot procedure, but "easily"? No... It's not a speed I feel safe maneuvering if I need to make a sudden turn to avoid traffic (a real possibility while flying into AirVenture). And my oil temp will get well over 200 unless it is a cool day... So yes, the airplane can do it, but if I don't have to, I'd rather not. That said, I flew the slow approach this year (and got in on the first try, which was nice) after I saw a podcast where the FAA and EAA were really pushing the idea that you shouldn't fly the fast arrival unless you really can't do 90... And then I spoke to a senior controller on the grounds, that told me the opposite; He'd rather see an airplane that can easily do the 135 knot procedure just do it and stay safer flying well above stall speed. So if I go again next year, I plan to fly the fast arrival (I'll still have the power well back to do 135 knots).

@francisdrelling4060 Месяц назад

This was a wonderfully frank video. Thanks for posting. It shows what can happen out there - almost real time.

@davethewave1898 Месяц назад

Solid self assessment video. Thank you for sharing and its a must watch for anyone coming to OSH.

@sircrapalot9954 Месяц назад

Sorry to hear about your loss, Steve. Looking forward to meeting you at OSH and SimVenture. Two of us are flying in for the first time, with our Connecticut flying club’s (formerly Canadian) Mooney M20J.

@TheJetLifeUncoveredPodcast Месяц назад

This is such great insight on what it’s like to fly into OSH. Great debrief on what happened. It’s all about how we deal with our mistakes under pressure. Thanks for sharing!

@WingsOverTO Месяц назад

Wow I hadn’t realized just how stressful your arrival was last year. Really glad nothing truly bad happened and you came out of it alright. Hopefully this year goes a bit more smoothly for you.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Yuuuup. It was brutal.

@andyfehr3462 Месяц назад

See you at OSH Steve!. Sorry for your loss!

@guycole2019 Месяц назад

I also had to go around my first time flying into Airventure! It was much easier for me as they just had me join back into a downwind to land!

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Yes, I think that’s how it normally goes.

@mikeramsey9747 Месяц назад

OSH Air Venture is a high density, high stress arrival environment for pilots and controllers, and you toss in a opposite direction lost pilot it can get real hairy real fast. I've worked OSH (2000-2004) but never had the opportunity to do fly the arrival. The controllers are usually much better with issuing instructions when things go wrong but in your situation they certainly weren't up to snuff. Thank you for sharing your experience and I hope the rest of the show is uneventful.

@Acc0rd79 Месяц назад

This is good info buddy. People keep asking if I will fly into Sun n Fun which is 20 mins away or go to Osh and I'm always like nah, not interested in getting into that pile up of junk and people. I know it's well staged but man to me it's a cluster I don't want anything to do with hah. I like to get to a party and leave whenever I'm bored, I just can't do that at these massive events. Keep up the good flying videos buddy!

@SteFly Месяц назад

This really looks stressful. Can´t wait to experience this the first time on my own. See you at AirVenture!

@rauldiaz5315 Месяц назад

Sorry for your loss Sir.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Thanks, and I appreciate your watching to the end 👍

@davefost Месяц назад

Sorry for your loss.

@jpalmer999 Месяц назад

I am sorry to hear about your loss.

@cessnateur Месяц назад

Excellent video. Thanks for sharing your lessons learned with us!

@fidikvien7682 29 дней назад

If you put in the notam that if you go around you’re sent all the way back you’re going to get people that will stick out landings and approaches they’re not happy with…. Needs to be some way they can get put into some other hold and get a slot in from a go around holding area

@19ij Месяц назад

Соболезную. Даже до 50 не дожил, на 10 лет старше меня... Спасибо за видосы, много полезной информации!

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Appreciated, yeah it’s brutal - he left so much behind.

@CZrv4 Месяц назад

I be there this year flying from Newfoundland and camping out. Hope to see you there with CGA!

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Stop by IAC!

@CZrv4 Месяц назад

@@FlightChops Will do for sure!

@pnzrldr Месяц назад

Echo the condolences - truly tragic. Hope you and your family are coping and can push through and remember the good. Thanks much for all the pointers. Last flew to AV in 2000 and going this year, with a pilot buddy. We'll be following your advice. Thoughts on best time of day to arrive appreciated. Looks like time stamp on your TS overlay was 1330ish? Did you land and wait for them to clear? Are other times better for overall traffic?

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Thanks for watching to the end 👊 As for times to arrive, it’s hard to say as weather creates bottle necks. That’s what happened to us - this was a super busy day that had a bunch of storms that made for some short windows to attempt the arrival. Generally speaking, if you can stage at an airport ~50 to 100 miles away and then watch ADS-B traffic for a slower time, or just plan for getting there super early in the morning.

@pnzrldr Месяц назад

@@FlightChops about what I figured. Thanks, and we'll swing by and visit you at the acro stand. Looking forward!

@TheBeingReal Месяц назад

Had the seemingly annual crash at AirVenture yesterday.

@edcew8236 Месяц назад

If I was king, I'd have a $500 landing fee at Oshkosh, discounted to zero if you have a copy of the NOTAM.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

I like this one 😂 But in all seriousness, I do think most people do have the NOTAM on board… whether or not they’re able to accurately absorb and execute what it says is maybe an other discussion. This event is also approaching (or exceeding?) critical mass so that’s part of the problem.

@philbirk Месяц назад

@@FlightChops The first few times I flew into Airventure on Sunday afternoon it was busy but a non-event. The last few times it's been a bit worse. It flows fine when it flows but as soon as somebody groundloops or something else goes wrong the capacity of the system becomes evident. I'm going in on Friday this year to try and avoid the traffic. I wonder why they don't have another VFR arrival from the North and put all those airplanes on 9-27 and the Fisk arrival will be for 18-36 L/R. Treat it like two different airports.

@Airpaycheck 23 дня назад

The best thing to do is fly in the week before the show, and leave the week after. In the middle of that you can sit back and watch all the craziness happen.

@FlightChops 21 день назад

If I had the time, I’d avoid going during the busy weekend for sure… but each year I’m booked right up until then and don’t have a choice if I’m going to display the aircraft. It’s a struggle.

@VictoryAviation Месяц назад

The chaos looks fun honestly. But I dig that sort of thing. I also fly most of my days below 500 feet for hours and hours, and transition through just about every airspace there is besides the SFRA over Washington. However, I don’t deal with THAT many other pilots all at once with vastly different skill levels and experience.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Yeah... this level of chaos is not fun 😬

@VictoryAviation Месяц назад

@@FlightChops I can definitely believe it. I still wanna go just for the chaos 😂

@Westjet1450 Месяц назад

Can't wait to see you there!

@bruschi8148 Месяц назад

Steve sorry for your family's loss

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Thanks for watching to the end 🙏🏻

@elias4214 Месяц назад

I hope those touchscreens vibe will leave aviation soon.. I want to find the button, touch the button, feel the response and get the result. Works great in turbulence also. See how challenging is that with the touchscreen

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Everything you can do with the touch interface can also easily be done with the knobs and buttons - but I've not had an issue with the touch interface having logged over 300 hours in this airplane - there are some well designed thumb and finger anchor points that do make the touch screens usable even in turbulence. (I'm referring to my specific set up here - can't comment on other manufacturers / configurations).

@ForderLearnToFly Месяц назад

There was so many things done wrong here that my heartrate was max during all of this. The notam explains a go around. All departures from the field to south, then over to insertion point. Clear and fully understood to NEVER turn left from 36, and not north. They had so many things hightlighted in their NOTAM that it appears they read the thing, but demonstrated they had not. Lives could have been lost here, because pilots are not ready for "anything" that could happen. He even mentions "missed approach" and clearly doesn't understand a go around, vs missed approach. This is a visual approach and if departures are to the right, before the tower, then 150 degrees at 1300 and above, then that is your default "go around" at OSH. All the tips he gave were facts from the NOTAM. At least the last tip he gave was a good one... practice using your home flight simulator, and PilotEdge, at SimVenture, the 4 day practice where no one gets killed. People died in 2023 at Oshkosh because of foolishness like this.

@WIngsWithoutBarriers Месяц назад

Nothing wrong with a video debrief. Heck, I sometimes put my mistakes into my videos so I can look back and go “Ya, lets not do that that”. As for the “yelling”, I’d say they were giving an instruction to get you safely outta there and there’re under the pump.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Thanks yeah - and I understand they weren't exactly "yelling" at me... but it was easer to say that in the brief on screen text, than to word it more like "ATC urgently got my attention to correct my mistake" 😂

@seagullsbtn Месяц назад

Stressfull? Just a little.... Too scary.

@calebyoungconductor Месяц назад

Man, these events seem very dangerous to fly into at times...

@thefencepost Месяц назад

In the event of a go-around Tower should divert all incoming on Fisk avenue, make them go back to start over. Then tell Fisk controllers to stop directing aircraft into 18/36 and have all aircraft forced to go around enter the pattern and land. Your experience clearly demonstrates how dangerous it can be to send aircraft all the way from the airport back out to the starting point. That should never happen. Clearly a failure on the part of planners and controllers.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

This situation was far from ideal, but it would have worked to have the aircraft on the go around just fly the published departure procedure and then work their way back to the start of the line at the current initial transition waypoint.

@flywiseman 23 дня назад

I cant believe more people dont die getting into that show. No way i'd fly into that place

@harpandharley Месяц назад

I would think the main suggestion should be to not fly in on Saturday. Yes, be aware of approach and departure corridors but try to fly in on any day except for Saturday. Does anyone know what happened to that guy that flew the wrong direction?

@justinc5356 Месяц назад

That would be mind numbing

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Can confirm it was 😂

@goatflieg Месяц назад

@@FlightChops I dunno... according to the video your mind was still working; just overloaded.

@thatairplaneguy Месяц назад

The arrivals at airventure are a bad joke. They treat our airplanes like toys. Most pilots don’t maneuver like the “controllers” have them do and not while being yelled at, rushed and at such a low level. They have absolutely no clue about a stabilized approach and I can’t believe there aren’t more accidents, mid airs and fatalities. It used to be neat to watch but now it’s actually terrifying.

@el_quba Месяц назад

I'm really wondering how the hell you can end up landing in opposite direction at Osh

@pkwilliamson4579 Месяц назад

Hmm, thinkin' I might bring my plane in on a truck!

@cmtetaboaco Месяц назад

90kts is slow? You got a jet?

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Did you watch this video?

@stephenherendeen2703 Месяц назад

Armless pilot? You might be able to work the flight controls, but how do you work all the comms and flight deck controls?

@user-yp6ux4vz7q Месяц назад

What action if any was given to the Bonaza pilot for going the wrong way? or is this an acceptable part of the processs.

@Dan007UT Месяц назад

What a cluster F

@machinaexmente2729 Месяц назад

Is this video a year late?! First you post the other multi IFR video with the ending cut off, then this one a year after the fact? Cmon Steve!

@FlightChops Месяц назад

This episode was actually a week late - I wanted to get out out 3 weeks before Osh so it was relevant and top of mind for people going this year. (This is also a review of the longer episode that I did already publish shortly after Osh last year that you missed, so I guess the strategy worked?) Can you explain to me what you think what was cut off the ending of the 20 minute long multi IFR episode?

@ImpactWench Месяц назад

IDK. Negotiating chaos shouldn't be a point of pride in aviation.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Agreed.

@MRxMADHATTER Месяц назад

People who fly to Air Venture need to know that they are NOT approaching an airport. It is a flying chess game. One wrong move and "CHECKMATE!!!" and you get yeeted out like an empty soda can. Do not expect normal air traffic. You need to study and rehearse the procedure notes like your life depends on it. And even then you have to be ready for anything. Just because you preparred doesn't mean that some other knucklehead didn't. Idiots fly to airshows too.

@richyrichk Месяц назад

Go land at Fondulac if that was me. Period. Dot. Bad time to be in the train. Bad time to listen to flustered ATC. Or any of the 10 good nontower fields.

@theswiller85 Месяц назад

Hi steve! In the original video i had suggested taking the “warbird” arrival. Have you given any thought to that?

@FlightChops Месяц назад

My thoughts on the warbird arrival is that it is not appropriate for my aircraft. This is the start of the description for that procedure: "This procedure is restricted to highperformance turbojet, turboprop, and Warbird aircraft capable of cruising at 130 knots or greater. Slower Warbird aircraft shall use the VFR Arrival ..." I intend to stick with the high/fast Fisk arrival this time.

@calburnIII Месяц назад

First, I didn’t hear ATC “yell” at you-a little emphatic, yes, but not yell. Second, you guys talked to each other too much-and I think that made it more difficult for you. I’ve flown in with a non-pilot friend, a very low time pilot friend, an extremely experienced pilot friend, and by myself. Each time, there was no reason to talk, except when my friends would see a potential conflict with another aircraft. I have pretty good avionics, too, but I really think they should be ignored in favor of looking outside, and keeping quiet unless it’s really necessary. Or as my extremely experienced pilot friend suggested, “you fly the airplane, I’ll look out for other airplanes.” Honestly, although we had to circle Green Lake on that occasion, I don’t think either of us said more than a couple words until after we landed. I’ve had to go around, too, when the airplane in front of me would not take to the grass. I was alone, coming in on 36 left. On the go around, I was told to turn downwind “and we’ll get you in”, so I didn’t have to return to FISK. If he hadn’t told me, though, I was prepared to ask. Third, I didn’t get he impression that you had the NOTAM memorized, and it appeared that it was awkwardly sized. I always printed mine out (and had on my iPad, too), but in a convenient size for my airplane. And I literally memorized it each year. I hope I don’t sound too critical. It’s a high stress environment, but doing what you can to lower that stress goes a long way to enjoying the flight in. And back out again.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

It's easier to describe it as "yelling at me" than to say "getting my attention a little emphatically" for the sake of engagement on social media :) No doubt we were not sterile enough - if you watch the whole video I directly addressed that in the voice over during our "improvised departure". (Mind you I did share the most intense parts of the flight and removed the slower paced sections with more dead air.) I actually did have the NOTAM well studied, and I even demonstrated that I had the depurate for 18 memorized, but that didn't matter as I hadn't briefed that I'd fly it if I went around with no clear instructions... so here we are debriefing the less than ideal situation that developed. Feedback is appreciated - that's what I've shared this for.

@Aleksandar6ix Месяц назад

Houston trip eventually? hehe

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Eventually, yes 😂

@kkiwi54 20 дней назад

Hopefully the Bonanza pilot feels embarrassed 😳

@dr.strangelove7739 Месяц назад

You did nothing wrong! There was no published procedure for the situation you experienced. Your experience is a great example of why the arrival system at OshKosh is UNSAFE. Controllers are telling pilots how to fly their airplanes, and that gets people killed EVERY YEAR. I stopped flying into OshKosh because it is NOT SAFE. During the largest airshow in the world, FAA regulations are not enforced as they are at every other airport in the U.S., there is no waiver allowing ATC to deviate from normal flight rules (but they deviate anyway which can be confusing for pilots), there are no procedures to follow when things go wrong, there is NO flight boss controlling airspace during the show. EAA AirVEnture is a train wreck. The pilot that deviated with the wrong-way landing received no violation, even though he was totally wrong, was not listening to the radio, and should have been violated because he put lots of lives at risk. Regulations = federal law. The FAA is not enforcing their own regs at OshKosh. People are KILLED every year because EAA is prioritizing revenue over safety.

@Ndub1036 Месяц назад

This is all really obvious if you just read the notam…

@AF29007 Месяц назад

Good Lord I wonder how much longer it'll be before the FAA clamps down on the airventure event. It is only a matter of time before there is going to be a serious incident there...

@adamcorby804 Месяц назад

So what’s the story with the opposite direction landing traffic?

@FlightChops Месяц назад

He got confused, it ended safely and there was a meeting with the FAA to get him sorted out.

@ProbableCause-DanGryder Месяц назад

@@FlightChops Not true. FAA never talked to him in any way. No Brasher, no changes, no rules, anybody do anything you want at AirVenture. See my video that comes out Wednesday night (7/17/24) at 9:30 pm Eastern time where you can hear the FAA ATC guy in his own words (never before released actual interview) describe this incident and all the others.

@reeltrides911S Месяц назад

Way too crazy and stressful. Totally not worth it. Air Shows are Air Shows, not worth getting into a possible midair.

@colinwallace5286 Месяц назад

They’re going to have a midair incident. You aren’t exactly green either as a pilot OR going into OshKosh. It needs some updates.

@whitec59 Месяц назад

Was this last year's arrival?

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Yes.

@ethanhiggins4887 Месяц назад

Co-pilot needs some CRM practice

@intrepidfox37 Месяц назад

Agreed. In the preflight they needed to discuss how to support the PIC without degrading SA, being a distraction, etc.

@johnlucas2037 Месяц назад

This sounds like a clown show I’ll never try to fly into Oshkosh. Sorry about your brother.

@philbirk Месяц назад

It's not that bad. Sunday afternoon can be kinda crazy sometimes, but the procedure works pretty well and the vast majority of the pilots flying in do a great job. It only gets on RU-vid when it's crazy. I've flown into the show many times and most of the time it was just another landing. I will be out practicing my 90kts and 1000' this weekend though. 🙂

@sundancer3700 Месяц назад

All I can say is some pilots are real stupid and should not have a license, that place is not safe to fly in to. We were in the fast lane and came up on a little Cessna going way under the minimum speed, now what. You are not supposed to use the radio or peel off the line but we were going to run into him. Luckily someone on the ground spotted the problem and made the Cessna pull out of line and go around to the slow lane. Needless to say we never went again.

@DeadBaron Месяц назад

Ever since learning of Airventure I've never even entertained the thought of going. All those planes of different types, especially the homebuilt experimentals, constantly coming and going in one tiny place is a disaster waiting to happen. Everything I've seen, ATC is completely overloaded. Not to mention you have no idea the condition of many of the planes and who's behind the stick....

@Zalaniar Месяц назад

Not to be rude, but I feel like you were absolutely NOT clear enough in your briefing with Katie as to your expectations, and/or your expectations were not correct for the situation. She was talking over you and the controllers a LOT with unimportant chatter and that's just unacceptable in that sort of situation. Quite frankly, I would have straight up told her, "Shut up!! Unless there's something critically important to safety," in the plane, but I also would have set that expectation in our briefing on the ground.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

It’s fair feedback, but this is just a few minutes of hours of us flying together… and it’s of course condensed down to the most stressful few minutes. I’m also not impressed with my own performances as far as how much I was feeling the need to debrief in real-time during a lot of that chaos. So yeah, I captured this for my own learning and saw the value in sharing it for others to see what could have been done differently / better.

@intrepidfox37 Месяц назад

Partially agreed. *Both* of them should've eliminated all extra commentary. Super sterile cockpit. Any words spoken should've been limited to identifying traffic or ATC comms. If the right seater is capable, she can quietly provide support and flip to the relevant pages for the arrival/departure instructions as she monitors their progress.

@Cantsaydog Месяц назад

No thanks I’ll stay on the ground Got just a wee bit more chances of staying alive

@alk672 Месяц назад

I'm typically the harshest critic of idiot youtube pilots, but you did nothing wrong here. The entire thing is a circus, I don't see at all how this is remotely appropriate or up to any safety standards that we expect in aviation. 1000 aircraft are not supposed to be in the same place at the same time, there is no technology or procedure that can make this happen safely. Controllers frantically screaming at aircraft without even knowing their tail numbers is a complete joke. I'm never participating. People have died and will die again. P.S. Very sorry about your loss.

@FlightChops Месяц назад

Thanks for watching to the end, and your support is appreciated. No doubt this is a tough environment, and I am going to avoid going during busy times to avoid the craziness in future (unfortunately this year Michael's celebration of life has negated my going earlier, so I'm gonna be in that Sunday rat race one more time.) But I do feel there are things I could have done better here, and I'm sharing my pain points to try to help others avoid them.

@lukebelvin4900 Месяц назад

All these youtubers still uploading EAA vids how long ago was it?

@FlightChops Месяц назад

It could be that the event is in 2 weeks and we're getting people ready for it? In the case of this one it's an important message to enhance safety and awareness... Or maybe it's just vacuous recycled content for clicks, offering no value - who's to say?

@lukebelvin4900 Месяц назад

@@FlightChops obviously there was a lesson of value learned here. Just an observation I had of the mainstream aviation guys uploading ancient (by today’s standard) content. Didn’t know it was around the corner, seems more relevant then.

@davefost Месяц назад

@@FlightChops lol best response ever

@blegi1245 Месяц назад

@@lukebelvin4900 you do realise that the movies and tv shows you watch are also recorded months or years before you are watching them?

@lukebelvin4900 Месяц назад

@@blegi1245 thanks bubba 🤫

@Kenword69420 Месяц назад

Speed 90 pls 😂😂 it’s not law there’s a million reasons someone else might need to use the airport. All just as important as yours

@FlightChops Месяц назад

I can assure you that all the aircraft on the very specific Fisk arrival path… were flying the Fisk arrival procedure. No one is using that airport during AirVenture for not AirVenture. It is what it is. So yes, “speed 90 please”.

@philbirk Месяц назад

Actually, it is the law. During Airventure there is a TFR over the airport and you are not allowed to fly in unless you follow the procedures in the NOTAM and the NOTAM very clearly states 90 kts for the lower Fisk arrival, which is what almost all VFR aircraft are supposed to fly. There is an exception if your airplane is not capable but even then you are required to use "maximum cruising speed" and it's suggested to fly in between 0700 and 0730 CDT.