With one sentence Drew just destroyed my whole understanding of the attachment theory. You're telling me I can choose not to be Anxiously Attached? How has this never crossed my mind before? It honestly makes so much sense. As James Clear said in Atomic Habits: Every action you take is a vote for the type of person you wish to become. No single instance will transform your beliefs, but as the votes build up, so does the evidence of your new identity
I do not completely agree. As they continue the conversation I feel like they hit the nail on the head. Attachment would be a “prescription” or diagnoses. Once you identify a behavior or trend with how you’re acting, then you can choose to act differently.
The identification gives you that ability to see that you have a choice. Similarly, identification can be a prison: “I am.” As opposed to “I act” or “I experience”.
As a french viewer, I can definitely tell you what you say is 1) not so obvious. We've been buried under so much BS that having someone helping us getting back to basics is invaluable. I love your take on human mind/emotions/reactions, both of you are really smart and have a way to explain things that is both unconventional and refreshing 2) French people aren't among the most self-aware, on the contrary. We tend to think we're so lucid and all, yet we're not. Talk about a complex of superiority!
Mark, I can't thank you and Drew enough for this video. I've ended a hopeless relationship and some equally hopeless friendships, recently, so this is heaven-sent. You're simply the best, Mr Manson. 😘
Mark Manson has such a clear speak and enunciation. I understand his ideas very easily. I'm not sure it's because he also speaks my language and understands my culture, brazilian portuguese. Dude is such an eloquent speaker
Ernest Hemingway wrote the most beautiful quote in A Farewell to Arms that has ever been written on this subject: “The world breaks everyone, and afterward, many are strong at the broken places.” This is why reading literature gives you a full understanding with all the nuances one could ever dream for of the human condition!
I stopped drinking alcohol on Dec 10th last year because I got hit with something that utterly destroyed me, and my use of alcohol had a part to play in it. For YEARS I had warnings that I should quit but warnings are pain free. I finally suffered the consequences and felt the most pain that I've ever had in my entire life. I'm never drinking again as I associate it now with that pain. It's just not worth it.
I agree (maybe cause I have a background in this sort of material) that a lot of this stuff is obvious……but that doesn’t make it bad. It’s always good to have a reminder.
These two geniuses are simply talking about the main evil of the century. People don't know how to canalize their traumas and struggles into something good, so they suffer even more. I mean, all of us should save this video to see at least one time a year. It's the information people really need in dark times like these. Cheers from Brazil!
I get motivated everytime I watch a Mark Manson video but the motivation doesn't lasts long. Neither does the courage to do the things im afraid to do. I feel like im getting somewhat trapped in the habit of watching these kind of videos and not doing smth that really makes a difference in my life. Im not saying that his videos don't help, they surely do.
43:40 that reminded me one book where author tried to explain people are complex persons which you can't describe just by one or two words because with few words you describe just part of them but not fully who they are. Also he tried to compare life with chess where every move can change the game and every game can be unique.
BS is BS. Problems are Problems. Challenges are Challenges. Setbacks are Setbacks. Failure is Failure. Dead-ends are Dead-ends. These never change or become easier. What changes is how you outgrow them. Got fired again the other week. It doesn't even faze me anymore (unlike last year where that happened too)
That last segment about Identity hits home. I put myself in boxes all the time. I'm angry, I'm bitter, I'm this and that. I lock myself in those boxes to a point where nothing else can go in. I'm in therapy and trying to get out of those boxes, but finding it very difficult because it's become such a pattern of behavior throughout the years. It taints everything I do.
I"m 8 minutes in and want to comment on the "haters" subject. We call that the 10% rule. There's always that 10% that are going to be troublesome/hate themselves and project that on to others. Once you realize that it's not "you" but "them" you should be fine!
I've found a way to deal with "haters" is to ask myself: "Do you like/agree with EVERYONE you encounter in life? Of course not! So why should everyone like/agree with you?" It's a two way street out there!
It’s not a bad perspective on a functional level, but the reality is: you don’t have a monopoly on truth. People are allowed to disagree with you ir not like you…..AND they’re allowed to say so. By villainizing as them as “troublesome “ aren’t you now the “hater”?
@@Daniel-kx4sy how often is a hater arguing on truth though? Mostly it's something triggers them enough to want the relief of hating. It's very rare for a hater to come in and be like "ah yes I can see that perspective, let me produce an alternative take and here are the nuances that led me to this belief". Certainly not on the internet. It's useful to shrug or ignore people who just come in to sling poop because they're triggered, which I'd say makes a good 99 percent of cases. People hate giving nuanced answers and perspectives because then they open themselves up to being challenged and wrong, and them being triggered on that vulnerability is what got them to "hate" in the first place
11:27 ish...that philosophical exposition about choice was epic and the technique of zooming out of a problem is also gold. I always ask, "If I was sitting on the Moon, would this bother me?" and as Mark says, it is really powerful and sets you free to move on. But I have to disagree about who we are when you strip away all preconceptions and associations or impressions. I am that part of the universe which can perceive itself, or as the Hebrews would say, I am that I am.
Hello, I have PTSD. The problem with post-traumatic growth, is your body still feels like a bag of sh!te. Whilst all the work you have to do makes you more emotional aware etc, and more compassionate, the impact on your amygdala etc means you'll most likely be stuck with chronic pain from inflammation and muscle tension, IBS, asthma etc. It's hard to go achieve great things when you feel like a bag of pooh.
What have you done to prioritize your health? It's a sincere question. I completely believe you are suffering, but there is a path forward. It's important to know that, and to show up for yourself as if you believe that you have some power to change things.
@@suzannehodgkins7197 Quite a few things, I've got a degree in physiology and a masters in nutrition - burnt myself out and in hindsight think I had a breakdown after university. Not sure if you want a detailed answer, but - saunas, cold plunges, yoga, exercise in nature every day, dairy free diet (actually made a huge difference, think it's to do with lactose and casein and inflammation), wheat free diet, fermented food and probiotics, red light therapy, currently trying hydrogen water. I think health and wellbeing + sorting out toxic relationships is the best way to cope. I got burnt out, carried on working, but literally couldn't focus enough to count to 30 (tried several times) - then had years of being mocked and shouted at for being stupid...so I guess I've had trauma + low self esteem to sort out. On the plus side, it's going well, but not everyone has the access to therapy, psychedelics and the money for biohacks that I do, or they're not sure how to cope, so they use coke, alchohol etc. Which is really sad :(
I realized and accepted I will most likely be single, won't own my own home, won't be able to travel to places I want to go, get my dream job due to medical, or getting into neuroscience field due to my GPA and the nightmare that is academia, or become a SOF Operator due to medical... life is so beautiful...
If it's true that the people who survived the Holocaust, like Viktor Frankl, had exceptional resilience to begin with, how does this survivorship bias affect your argument about traumatic growth? Edit: To add, most experts know that trauma isn't an event. It's how your brain reacts to events. Two soldiers who experience the same gore could have entirely different responses. I think your use of the word "trauma" is too colloquial, which is to say, misinformed.
I read years ago in a scientific journal that when someone experiences a major trauma, the brain sets a marker that does not get erased. One has to work around 'that marker" for the rest of their lives. I do not recall the article stating what that marker was physically. A protein marker? Maybe.
44:44 … I like to tell my children (and perhaps genuinely interested acquaintances), “The only thing that holds us back is the bullshit story we tell ourselves in our heads”
Great episode. You hit on some excellent points. I especially relate to making good use one’s trauma and so much around us is a construct, including the roles we label ourselves with in life.
love this dude, love this content...hate the fake 'zoom-like' interactions between these two at times(0:57-1:10). Pretending to crack up at something to put forth the illusion of extreme comfort and a casualness of environment. I have to listen to those fake conversational laughs all day.
YES. You hear the laugh is not "deep" but more like a sound and tensed. Dont like it either and dont think it is necessary for them bc they already have nice chemistry - most of the time. 😅 Maybe it was a nervous thing at the start of the podcast. Dunno
Yeah also think it’s a nervous thing but also that drew is a little bit of yes-man around mark? Idk man who am I… Like has he ever disagreed with mark? Not that I know about, but maybe that’s how they think a co-host should be.. just writing my thoughts down, could be wrong
See what you mean. I also noticed that sometimes when Drew tells a (for him) painful story , Mark does not react to it and starts his own story immediately 😅 I did like the topics and their answers to them tho :)
if I can re-reframe the choice discussion: even if you get slapped by something that you could not have prevented and had nothing to do with your actions, you can still choose to either accept what is happening or not: and if you accept it, you're suffering (somewhat more) voluntarily, and if you don't, you're still suffering.
11:07 Actions have consequences. This is a fact of life that very few people want to accept. You can argue with it all day long, but you can't prove it wrong. You choose to go out and drive, inevitably you're going to have an accident at some point. You choose to stay home and have everything brought to you (to avoid accidents), inevitably you're going to lose your socialization skills.
read "the courage to be disliked" in which the Adlerian psychology is presented...and one of the pilars of that is denying trauma...it wouldn't be possible to describe the concepts here but the book is a master piece of self-help
My whole life I've had an embarrassing personal problem that has kept me from starting own life separately from my parents. Which has caused me to go into deep depression. It sucks to watch people move forward, while I continue to stay in one place 😢
29:39 Death casts the shadow by which everything else is measured. Answering to that, Copilot said ("Using the web") A poignant observation indeed. The specter of mortality influences our perceptions, priorities, and actions. It reminds us to cherish life’s fleeting moments and seek meaning in our existence. 🌑✨
15:42 tracking PTG in Holocaust survivors is definitely interesting but I’m curious how Dubrowski would have controlled for other factors that led to PTG vs PTSD. Seems to me the traumatic event is just one component. What about the narrative about the event and how the society/community you live in reinforces that narrative? For example, if you experienced combat trauma as a Vietnam vet and you return to a society that tells you that you’re a baby killer and a monster, and that you should be ashamed of your experience and that you survived it. I’d imagine PTG would be a lot harder. Compared to WWII vets for example, where literally everyone was calling them heroes and thanking them for their service. Surviving a genocide is a narrative that people would admire you for and would reinforce the narrative that you are strong, a survivor, etc. I don’t think these experiences happen in a vacuum, and I think 99% of people would have a hard time being totally unaffected by others opinions of them. I wonder what the difference in PTSD vs PTG depending on how empathic everyone around you is to your experience.
Trauma in itself isnt a good thing. Sometimes its even worthless. A shitty event that shouldnt have happened and we didnt deserve. The growth comes from the switch from victim to the one responsible. Not for the trauma itself, but the way you let it affect your life.
16:55 - I don't think this sounds woo woo at all. Currently I'm reading Waking the Tiger by Peter Levine, which states that trauma is basically the unreleased energy. Whenever we are threatened, the body mobilizes huge amounts of energy for fight or flight response, but if we cannot effectively deal with situation body goes into third option - the freeze response, so all the energy stays in the body and causes different symptoms. Amazing book, check it out.
❤❤❤❤I always thnak my friend Aklesiya Atikilti who suggested me your “The subtle art of not giving a fuck” book and now that book lead me to this podcast and i love it!!
So much may be cultural too. America seems to not talk about death much and romanticize trauma. Would be curious to see more from other cultures/ perspectives like how you were talking about French here.
Anybody. Im 22 and lost, dont know where to start in life. Ive only ever worked dead end jobs and dont have any aspirations. I know nobody will come ablnd save me but if anybody can relate or has any ideas I'd love to listen.
4:15 Yes, they are actually revolutionary. Please don't dismiss them. It's important to consider the entire context of the protests but as you only mention October 7th always so here it goes too in these protests too for you. It is biased to highlight only that part. It's also necessary to mention other significant aspects of the situation, rather than supporting a one-sided perspective, you must have seen also the Al-jazeera and other media channels covergae too maybe if you are human.
Not seeking pity, but my breakup in september gave me the worst trauma ever, i was not a great boyfriend i was in survival mode and could not change, i neglected her and she left, i don't blame her at all! But my trauma is me, i ruined it i destroyed the best thing to ever happen to me, iknow i will never ever find this kinda person again. I try to grow but tbh i don't feel i deserve to get better or find a new gf. Any advice? This is tearing me apart
Around 15': That research has a very strong survivorship bias, since those who died can not be interviewed and those who survived and suffered most probably would not have given interviews. Having said that, it is true that a lot of people improve after a negative experience although, as a society, we should aim at reducing those as much as we can (there is enough pain to go around, anyway ;-). On choice: again, it is society's responsibility as a whole to make sure the odds of anybody getting into a car accident are as low as possible. Otherwise, it becomes "not a society". I will definitely read about PTG, it looks interesting.
Just sit there to contemplate it all after you come back because you're gonna see such crazy and radical things in these trips. That when you come back you're gonna be like what the fuck was that? And you're gonna spend a week just in the shower, what the fuck was that? Cooking your food, what the fuck was that? Driving to work, what the fuck was that? Sitting at work doing your work, what the fuck was that? Thinking that. Trying to wrap your mind around it. Try to remember and trying to figure it out and that's a very valuable process.
I wonder how many ptsd sufferers in your audience you immediately lost when you said things like “trauma is such a fucking trendy topic” or when you downplayed and blamed them for their own suffering. For someone that’s probably never tried to recover from intense ptsd, you sure seem to feel strongly that ptsd sufferers ought to just decide to be more empowered instead of whining all the time.
I think what he means by trendy are the kids who say they have trauma from not being invited to a birthday party. Lots of people online are claiming trauma when they are sad or disappointed. It's become "trendy" by people who do not understand the difference. At least that's my take.
Ignore hate comments. This is the best way to deal with it. There are always will be people whose demons are irritated by your soul. You can’t please everyone in life.
Hey friends! I would like to share this idea with you. When you are criticized, think of yourself as contributing to someone else. This means that the critic will be busy criticizing you and will have less time to criticize other RU-vidrs and influencers. There's nothing to worry about. Because there are good people like us! Today is another great day.
1. If you want a life of meaning, at some point, you have to choose a life of suffering. 2. Change is often born from trauma. 3. Evil people don’t believe they are evil, they believe everyone else is. 4. Death is a gift that gives life meaning. 5. “You” do not actually exist.
The best songs are devastating. The best artists/scientists/mathematicians can do nothing but their art. They have no choice. It does not come TO them, it comes THROUGH them.
I really wish that people in general would stop using the word happiness. Life is not about seeking happiness as that is temporary and pleasure is a form of Happiness so I disagree with him on choosing those words though the concept he is saying I 100% agree with. The truth is you want to have contentment you want to be able be a part of life whether it's good or bad NB present or the life is happy or sad because those things come and go they aren't eternal. Also I wouldn't call suffering necessary for life I think hardships is necessary for life but suffering have a different connotation to it I would almost say effort is required and sometimes that effort may involve suffering but not always.
As a French guy I am a huge fan! Also as a French guy I will tell you honestly your accent in French sucks ;) Thanks Mark & Drew keep up the good work!
Thank you so much for this interview, Mark! Some of us are also fish out of water trying to find our way in this world! Without giving too much many fucks! 😝
