5 Worst Villain Cliches (Writing Advice) 

The opposite side of the coin is just as frustrating, i.e. where the hero mindlessly kills dozens of henches throughout the story but at the end of the movie they don't kill the main villain (the actual source of all the problems) because suddenly the bad guys must "face justice" and go to jail or "we can't stoop to their level."

I always liked in the first Incredibles how Syndrome even references Mr Incredible getting him lulled into a monologue. He says “you sly dog, you got me monologuing”!

The best "Join me" moment was when Vader revealed who he was to Luke and that completely shook Luke's resolve and threw his motivations up in the air. Such a complex emotional moment. Luke wrestles with this knowledge and while he refuses, he's still confused and haunted by the revelation.

Villains that generally don't seem that bad or make good points but then decide to commit or plan a random massacre/ genocide because you know, they're the villains and that's what villains do, right ?

Probably my most loathed villain cliche is the fake sympathetic villain. You know, these ones who will commit the most horrid crimes against humanity and then the story try to evoke sympathy on them for some reason like ''I was abused as a kid''. It's so ridiculous and cheesy, and makes the villain feel more flat and robotic rather than profound.

It's annoying when the villain puts the hero in a trap, and then leaves the scene fully expecting the trap to kill the hero, and leaving nobody around to make sure the hero doesn't survive.

What bugs me about the villain's monologue is that nothing really stops the villain from breaking the hero's legs, paralyze them from the waist down or just shoot them and explain their evil plan as the hero slowly passes away.

The main villian cliche I hate is the redemption without the redemption arc. Where the villian just turns good instantly cuz the main character said "let's be friends" or something like that. Even more annoying is when they go from insane psychopath to well-adjusted rational human as soon as they change sides. They also never realize the gravity of their past actions, atone for them, or face any consequences that come back to bite them. They just turn good instantly and that automatically fixes everything...

Maybe the cliche that is the villain never being able to kill anyone. They do their best, but the author always heals the good guys. That's frustrating.

The one I hate is when the villain has already beaten the hero to the point where he is down and too wounded to fight. But then he tells the hero what he will do with the hero's girlfriend or wife, after the hero is dead. Suddenly the hero gets up and is able to fight and win.

I love when a monologue is used against the villain. For example, in the resident evil 4 remake, right before the end of the Castle, Salazar starts a monologue before Leon pulls out his handgun and says "you talk too much" before shooting him. I like it because it's in line for both characters

One of my most hated villain cliches is when a villain has a hero trapped and proceeds to take the time to explain and expose their entire evil plan so that when the hero inevitably escapes, they know exactly what to do to stop the villain’s plan.

It kinda sucks because the “Join me” proposal has genuine potential. What if one of the heroes backstabs the rest of the team to actually Join the villain?

I'm actually a fan of the "join me" scene if the villain has been set up well. For example, if they're a good leader or their proposals are actually enticing to others. This can be especially powerful if the villain's offer is something the protagonist *would* have accepted before their growth.

I absolutely HATE the 'villain wants to destroy / rule the world' trope. Usually that's as deep as they get. They want to do it because reasons.

Funnily enough, Maul's return in the Clone Wars, while possibly a cheap retcon to resolve cliché 2, actually provides a pretty solid example where cliché 3 works. (Spoilers) Maul makes a "join me" offer to Ahsoka, but it's not a standard "You're cool, we could do a lot together if you would just be evil." His speech is based on the fact that he knows Palpatine's about to take over the galaxy, and we as the audience know that's true. He asks Ahsoka to work with him, and while his desire to kill Palpatine is definitely selfish to a major degree, their interests do genuinely align. Furthermore, it is quite legitimately a "We're not so different" since they've both rejected their respective allegiances to the Sith and Jedi. It kind of makes sense for Ahsoka to work with him, and she actually says yes at first. It's only when he reveals that they have to kill Anakin to stop Palpatine (something we also know to be true) that Ahsoka's loyalty causes her to pull back, and that's not a given since she's walked away from Anakin in the past. Same structure as the cliché, but a legitimately compelling argument for the hero to join, and even though we kind of know Ahsoka and Maul have to fight, there's a much more interesting conflict within Ahsoka as she weighs the merits of Maul's argument with her previous allegiances.

I think a lot of zombie stories suffer from being selectively dangerous. When unimportant characters are among the horde, it's like a feeding frenzy. When a main character is surrounded with no possible escape *cough cough* Jon Snow, they are slow and useless

Best twist on the villain end monologue was in Watchmen when Ozymandias tell the other Watchmen "ok I can waste my time explaining my plan since I've already put the final part in motion 30 minutes ago" wich totally flip that thrope on it's head.

The villain cliche I really hate is when the villain kills their henchman / accomplice in the opening act. The reason why is because, in theory, it's actually a *great way* to establish them as ruthless and deadly. What's more dangerous than a person who'll easily kill even those who serve their ideas if they fail? Right... right? But in over 90% of the cases in practice, what follows is that same villain not killing or attempting to kill the hero or some more important characters for challenging them in significantly more dangerous ways. For instance, if you establish that your villain kills his henchman in the first scene because he smirked at their bad joke, you simply cannot have them *not kill* (or try to) the hero or hero's love interest who calls them a moron to their face. If you establish that person as someone who's willing to kill for anything, follow that through. This way, it's a clunky way to say that an obviously bad person is obviously bad, and then continuing with the plot as if nothing happened.

I hate the "last stab" cliche: where the villain has been defeated and the hero has decided to spare them (already a cliche in itself), so they take one last stab at the hero, usually behind their back, and are promptly done away with.

honestly, morally gray villians are wearing out their stay. recently every villian needs to have some back story explaining their psychology and some of it ends up being cheesy or just feels like filler. Sometimes a very horrible character just works, because bad people are real

One of the worst is when the villain captures the hero and has the chance to outright kill him, but instead just puts him in some trap/obstacle course and walks away, allowing the hero to eventually escape unnoticed. Several of the James Bond movies do this, but DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER was one of the entries to do it the most.

The best joke about fatal monologues in a movie is definitely the "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk !" punchline by Tuco in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly 😂😂😂 Oh, and about stylish throwaway villains, Supreme Leader Snoke has entered the chat 😅

Antman and The Wasp: Quantumania was the last example of the villain pulling punches that really bothered me. Kang is vaporizing hordes of nameless extras. Then Scott, Hope and Cassie are in his sights, the people he most wants to kill, and suddenly he stops using that weapon. Good writing would have found a way for the heroes to defeat him or actually had one of them sacrifice themselves, instead Kang pulls his punches and allows them to get close.

While it's not specific to villains, the "you and I are not so different" spiel is something I find rather groan-worthy. It's especially bad when the similarities are just things within the essential human experience such as caring about your loved ones, or being angry at injustice. It's more excusable if the story calls out how full of crap it is.

Maul definitely still counts as an example despite being brought back *because* he was brought back *because* of how obvious it became that the mistake had been made. And I think that "join me" works in two situations: 1. The villain is a delusional megalomaniac that thinks that their goal is objectively heroic, and they think they've met an equally heroic person who has merely been deceived. 2. It's an amoral and pseudo-friendly mercenary type character who makes this offer to anybody that they encounter and then flip-flops based on convenience.

One of the "join me" villain moments I remember and enjoy was on Avatar: The Last Airbender cartoon. It didn't happened with Aang (the protagonist) but with Zuko, who is still very important to the story. We saw Zuko's struggles and how hard he was trying to cope with the fact he was a dishonored prince while still looking for his own path. We thought he changed, that he was a better person who understood the terrible things his father did to other nations and people, but when Azula (his sister) offers his honor back in exchange of fighthing the good guys, he takes the offer even if it means go back to the side of his megalomaniac father and crazy sister. He was never a bad person, but he wanted to be accepted by his family so much it clouded his mind.

A lot of times in Disney Movies, the villains aren't selectively dangerous. The hero often finds the villain's weakness and figures out how to exploit it. In "Aladdin," the titular character used Jafar's lust for power when he realized that the genie had a much greater power. When Mike and Sully fought Randall in "Monsters Inc.," they used the terrain by knocking him into a door and trapping him with humans. Other times, the villain makes a mistake in their ruthless attempts to attack the hero. They let their rage cloud their judgement. Clayton was unable to reach Tarzan, he was reckless with his machete and cut the vines holding him above the ground. Gaston stabbed the beast in the back while holding onto a gargoyle with one hand in the rain. He took a risk that cost him his life.

I love the term "Selectively Dangerous Villain." Its definitely the most abundant bad villain out there.

I think the "Join me proposal" was very effective in Spiderman. Osborne was affected by his experiments and so had mental health issues affecting his judgment, and while the audience knows Spiderman is incorruptible, Green Goblin at this time does not. A short dialogue showed Green Goblin rational in his thinking and being much smarter than we had previously seen him, and simultaneously completely deranged and detached from reality in his goals, plus creating some mystery because the audience does not know how sincere he was.

Mind control is my least favorite villain trope. Kind of like the “offer to join” it’s usually not pulled off well. Even when it’s something like hallucinations, or affecting emotions, it often has someone acting very out of character for how they’d be in that scenario.

about maul: I love how dave filoni (the creator of the clone wars series.) basically salvaged maul because he knew his character was done injustice. they made him so much more interesting and threatening and made him an actual character instead of a throwaway first movie villain. :)

My least favorite villain arc is when the narrative justifies the villain and makes it out as if their villainy isn't really their fault. Allow your villain to be evil. Or make them sympathetic. Or even redeem them. But make it believable, and remember they are a villain.

I've always hated the villain monologue as well. The villain can straight up kill the hero without having to explain their goal. It's like you have your opportunity to kill them but instead you tell them the reason, just have the villain straight up do their goal which would put a struggle within the hero. And most realistic enemies never go on a monologue, they just do their actions.

But the cliché I also really hate is the "head vampire" one. Where the villain has an entire army or the world is teeming with villains and it seems all is lost for our heroic band of stragglers. It introduces this concept as a way of showing the extremely dire circumstances they are in. But wait! Actually, it turns out all they have to do is kill this one leader and all the others will just die, or turn back into human or whatever. It just makes a joke of the whole scenario and we roll our eyes wondering what the big fuss was about. It's this stupid cliché that destroyed Game of Thrones for me.

These are all great picks. This one is similar to #5 but another cliche I hate is when the hero fights a villain that’s way bigger/physically stronger than them. When the hero gets grabbed, for some reason the villain always just chucks them across the room instead of doing the sensible thing like choking or crushing them. By throwing them away from you, you’ve not only just given them distance from you and lost your close range advantage, but you’ve bought them time to either run away, attack from far away, or bought them time to come up with a plan.

Reminds me of the “Evil Overlord Checklist” - a gag list with 30 stupid things villains shouldn’t do like: “Shooting is not too good for my enemies.” My least favorite is an extension of 5, when they brag about their plans to the hero for no reason other than to reveal backstory or key plot points. Like Lord Voldemort in virtually every scene. The obvious comparison is Sauron who we know only through his actions - because he never appears.

What do you think about the "join me proposal" when the main character rejects the villain at first, but end up in a situation when he realizes joining the villain is the best choice they can do and end up joining in?

Nailed all of these Brandon! My major cliche is the villain not killing the hero when they have the chance. I'm currently writing/drawing my own manga series where the villains are ruthless, no monologuing with their master plans to the hero. Their motives will be discovered over time from other sources. I've always found it weird when villains describe their plots to the hero, very counterintuitive for someone trying to accomplish a goal without interference.

In defense of The Hunger Games, Clove had no character development to say that she is a person who is guided by common sense and logic. In fact, from what little is known about her, it is implied that she was very arrogant. So yes, Brandon, it was a bad example.

I don't agree with #2, i think that the reason Darth Maul is so iconic is precisely because he is so mysterious. I mean, it's much easiwr to create just an intriguing design and an illusion of depth than actual depth, I don't think they'd ever be able to flesh out a back story matching the audience expectations.

On the Spiderman example, I think the actual offer is a lot more meaningful than it seems. It shows both of their conflicting ideologies, Goblin has no reason to believe Spider Man wouldn't take him up, after all he lived through what he told him. At least from his perspective he made Oscorp what it is and how did they thank him for his heroic act? They backstabbed him. He thought of himself as someone better than them and the Goblin serum proved him right. Normal people are beneath him, which is why he takes interest in another extraordinary individual like Spider Man. Heck, he accomplishes his actual goal midway through the film and spends the rest of the runtime, for Spider-Man to see that his ideology is right. And it isn't like Peter would always have rejected such an offer. He did take the easy way when he was robbed out of his money before, if uncle Ben hadn't taught him the importance of responsibility than he might have accepted to rule the city. Goblin didn't outright say he wanted to destroy it, he had no reason to, since he already did and it is debatable if a less selfless Peter wouldn't have taken him up on that offer.

My most hated villain cliché is when they’re just evil for evil’s sake. Like, they need to have some sort of underlying motive; it can be an amoral or evil motive, but it has to have some kind of logic behind it.

I think the most obvious example of the needlessly complicated plan was Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. So, you're one of Voldy's minions and you've managed to infiltrate Hogwarts and gain the trust of Harry Potter. Mission basically accomplished. Prepare a portkey, cut Harry, wipe away some blood and then teleport away before anyone can ask questions. Or if the Dark Lord insists on dueling and killing Harry personally, then bring Harry in your office where a gift is waiting for him. Or a strange magical device that you're going to use as a teaching device. Have Harry pick it up, and psych! it's a portkey. Or break into Gryffindor common room and turn Harry's toothbrush into a portkey. Or Stupefy him and put him in that handy-dandy little kidnapping trunk of yours.

On the flipside, I think the betrayed villian is a really good underused trope. Amy from Gone Girl, and Harvey Dent are good examples of this. Meg from Hercules is almost an example of this. When you understand the hurt it makes them compelling.

I think the "join me" cliché can work in some circumstances, such as when there's a corrupting influence on the hero, like maybe the hero is slowly turning into a vampire, or being corrupted by the Dark Side of the Force, or something as simple as financial problems. (A great example of this is the scene in "It's a Wonderful Life," when Potter tries to offer George a job working for him.)

One of the worst for me is where the villain needlessly kills one or more of his own henchmen, just to establish the fact he is evil. In some cases this works well, such as when Tuco beats his henchman to death in Breaking Bad, because Tuco had already been established as a deranged psychopath who was high on drugs almost all the time and we later find out he is direct family of a ruthless mexican drug cartel. Nobody would challenge him and that is understandable. Yet there are many more examples where the villain, often in the early part of the story, kills a henchman for minimal or no reason and you just immediately think "Why would the other henchmen tolerate this? Why would they work for him? Why wouldn't they just kill the villain themselves and walk away?" A loose cannon is not someone that would command respect from an army of henchmen unless they had serious connections.

The one villain cliche that I hate is the getting captured on purpose one. This annoys me when it's done poorly or over elaborately. Best examples of it being done well is the joker in the dark knight his contingency was put in place after he was captured and was done within an acceptable amount of time. The second is the opening to the blacklist as it was a carefully planned surrender with an option for release. When it's done poorly you get silva from skyfall an impossible plan that he would have needed nostradomis levels of foresight to execute with it all being dependent on being captured at the exact right time. It's a cliche that needs to die or at least be done well.

I'd say the "proposal" one is, when cleverly done, a way to give you the time to calm down after the action while further cementing the hero's choices. You know what's gonna happen but you also realize the hero has to make a point and refuse, to show they're morally right and proud of the path they chose. I'd say it can be a transition scene from the hesitant hero to the driven and proud of themselves one.

I'm going to second the convoluted plans one. I actually would love to see/do a video about terrible ways to write smart characters. The "genius" villain is always shown to be super smart because they have complicated plans that go off almost without a hitch, but the plans basically require every single thing to happen perfectly and it's often incredibly contrived that so many of the steps happen the way they do. They'll perfectly predict the behaviour of other characters even when those characters do things that don't make sense, and even if not, the plan hinges on people acting in a very specific way and any number of factors could change that. A better way to write a smart villain is to have them have solid contingency plans and adapt when plans don't go the way they should. This was demonstrated effectively in Die Hard, where Hans Gruber had a good solid plan but unexpected circumstances threw multiple wrenches in his plan (an unexpected guest who happens to be a cop is hiding in the building, some of his men get killed, his detonators get stolen, John pulls a fire alarm, etc) and when those things happen, it provides major setbacks to his plan but he comes up with smart ways to deal with it and keep everything on track. Things aren't supposed to go smoothly for the heroes, but writers often forget that they shouldn't go smoothly for the villain either. It makes the story more interesting and believable, and adds a lot of great tension.

The one cliche I hate usually occurs in anime. The cliche is how villains would stop mid fight to explain their backstory. I hate this as it breaks the pace of the fight and it looks stupid to see the protagonist just sit there instead of trying to fight the villan. This happens an awful lot in anime like dragon ball, it is genuinely frustrating and pace breaking. What would be funny is a subversion of this cliche where the villain drops their backstory and then the hero just kills them mid speech. Good video. You gained a subscriber. Edit: spelling and grammar.

The villain cliché I have little care for are the Know-it-all types who know everything about everything, and in their infinite wisdom, haven't set out to do what they said they would do

#5 also sometimes works in my opinion when either used comedically like Syndrome from Incredibles or when it is short like in Demolition Man when Simon Phoenix gloats that this is "the best day of my life," before Spartan grabs a nearby ice ball and smashes it at Phoenix's feet freezing him. Was memorable.

Great video, Brandon! also, I love that in the original Incredibles, they poke fun at the "Fatal monologue" trope twice. once with Frozone talking about his glory days and Baron Von Ruthless, and Syndrome dodging and acknowledging it.

Number 4 reminds me of an episode of Wordgirl, titled “A Simple Plan”, that plays around with this trope, which ironically highlighted the episode’s words of the day, “Simple” and “Complicated”.

About convoluted villain plans, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire has got to be the worst offender. Voldemorts plan was to wait for an international wizarding tournament that only takes place once every 5 years so he could sign Harry up for the tournament that lasts for an entire school year and make sure not only that Harry survive the dangerous tournament where people can die but also that he wins it all so Harry would touch the trophy which is a portkey (a teleportation device) that teleports him to Voldemorts lair where he could kill him in secret. The problem with this plan is that anything could be a portkey in this world, even a random boot. Why not just have your henchman who is already working as an undercover agent at Harrys school invite Harry for tea one afternoon and be like "Yo Harry, could you hold this "pen" for me?" Takes 10 minutes to kill Harry Potter that way instead of an entire school year where a thousand things could go wrong.

I think you nailed something about the "Join me" cliché... "You and I aren't so different" and so on... Because a lot of times there is no point to it. Now I would like to voice a contradiction to that; I do actually like when the speech delivered upon such a moment actually makes the protagonist doubt their own actions and motives, whether because the "baddie" is a great manipulator (not a bad villain's trait, after all) or because there was some actual misleading from them. Especially if those doubts reside even after the end of the confrontation (no matter how it went).

I dislike the capricious ally / subordinate killer. When the villain is a leader of an organized team or force but consistently murders subordinates or allies just for startle points. It’s ok if it’s a lone wolf unpredictable guy, but a situation where a villain is somehow organizing disciplined forces but the only benefit to rising in those forces is getting knocked off just makes me think “what are these guys hoping to gain by following this guy”

It's ironic that after using Incredibles 2 as an example, the very next cliche was made fun of by the original Incredibles.

Darth Maul had the greatest redemtpion arc in all of film. Not in the way he becomes good, but how he became one of the greatest villains in media.

#3 is interesting since I have a short story with something similar. But it has a little twist, and I think it’s one of my best short stories I’ve ever written. "Well... here we are... the long awaited final battle". A young woman said, tightening her grip on her sword. A tall figure, clad in armor, stood at the edge of the cliff, facing the sunset. "Appropriate, is it not, Elizabeth"? He asked. "Just as the sun sets on this day, so too does it set on our story. This is indeed the end, one of us will die here, the other will return to their loved ones and live out the rest of their days in peace... only, I don't have any loved ones. You saw to that, didn't you?" He said. "I never meant to kill your wife Jaren, I meant to kill you, but she sacrificed her life to save you". Elizabeth looked away sadly. "I wanted to respect her wishes, to let you live, but you made that impossible" She said. "Why are you trying to stop me, Elizabeth"? The tall figure, known as Jaren, asked. "You're a lunatic, that's why. You've killed billions of people, you've destroyed *entire kingdoms*! As long as you live, no one is safe, I won't allow a world like that. A world of suffering and pain, of death and destruction, of sorrow and despair, I won't live in that kind of world, so I'm going to do anything to stop you from making it that way. "Ah, so even the hero can be selfish" Jaren said. "Selfish? What are you talking about"? "You said, *you* won't allow a world like that, *you* don't want to live like that, *you* are trying to stop me without even knowing my true motives". "Well... what are your intentions if you think they're so just, and why was it worth so much death"? Elizabeth asked. "The purge of corruption". Jaren began to turn, sword in hand, and Elizabeth readied herself. Jaren began pacing slowly as he explained, "Humankind, is corrupted. There is no good, they have done nothing but evil, no matter what they *say* their intentions are. They have wronged me, time after time after time. Humans have taken everything from me every day for a thousand years, all because I tried to play hero... and failed". Jaren lifted his hands and removed his mask, revealing to Elizabeth a face that she knew all too well. Her brother's. "Look around, Elizabeth. Can you look at all of this ruin and destruction and still call yourself a hero"? She scanned her surroundings, he was right. There was nothing left except shattered swords, broken shields, and burning corpses. And she could have prevented it all with only a few words. All she had to do was say to the emperor, "I will not fight in this war", and he wouldn't have launched his invasion, Elizabeth wouldn't have had to kill Jaron's wife, she wouldn't have had to imprison his children. A thought occurred to her then, 'Am I even the hero? Was I ever a hero in the first place'? "I... I don't..." "No? Well humans can, they see this desolate wasteland as a victory, no matter how many of their comrades that they lost. It's all a game to them, they are nothing but cruel, weak minded, savages, driven by violence and greed. You know of what I speak of, for you've witnessed it firsthand." "When they killed my first son, and tortured my daughter just to hurt me. When they stole everything that I ever cared about and burned it down right in front of my eyes. All before I became the way I am now, when I was the hero, before I did anything to deserve the scorn of these weak wretches". "N-no... stop... no more, I don't want to hear anymore". Elizabeth cried. "But you know that I'm right, maybe you won't accept it, but you know. You and I... we've ascended beyond their mortal strife. As immortals, we have an obligation to look after the world, and all the humans do is destroy it. So I will destroy them first." "Join me... please, you can rule with me, together we will put an end to their pathetic suffering". Jaren put out his hand. "If you kill the humans, what will there be left to rule"? "Oh, how ignorant you are, there are an uncountable number of realms beyond this one, we can purge the evil in all of them and then create our own race, free of the human plague." That made her remember something. The words of her master, the one who taught her how to use her powers. "Long ago..." Elizabeth recalled aloud. "The power to dimension swap and to strike down evil were one in the same. But when twins were born to the previous hero and the black dragon in human form, her powers were split and given to her offspring, and the same regarding the powers of the black dragon." Elizabeth finished. "The legend of the Black Dragon and the White Wolf" Jaron said, recalling the story told to him as well. "Why does this matter right now"? "Don't you see, Jaren? The past hero was the White Wolf, our mother, and the Black Dragon was our father. You Inherited mothers ability to dimension swap and fathers ability to release his restraints and unleash all of his power. I inherited mothers ability to destroy evil, and fathers sheer combat prowess." "I grow weary from listening to this, get to your point Elizabeth", Jaren growled. "...Maybe your not wrong about humans being purely corrupt, but your not right to eliminate them for it. I have another way." "You have the ability to enter the dimension of spirits, and I have the ability to combat evil. Let us join our powers and fight the source of the evil, not the vessels." "The demons in the dimension of spirits"? Jaren asked. Elizabeth held out her hand. "Join me, help me, and we both get what we want." Jaren smiled. "That actually sounds like a good plan". He said, taking her hand in his, he would never admit it, but he was relived to be on the same side as his sister, and she was glad to have her brother back. "What about your daughter, will she be alright"? "I know her, she will be fine" Jaren said with a smile. "We may not be fighting each other, but we still have a long battle ahead of us, are you ready to face what follows"? Elizabeth took a deep breath, then spoke. "I am". And they were absorbed into the dimension of spirits. Legend has it, they're still there, combating the demons that contaminate the minds of the humans throughout all of the countless realms. Fighting side by side, as brother and sister, until their mission is fulfilled, though it would last till the end of time. "Let the Chaos ensue, let all evil be devoured by my hatred."

The "join me" in Ahsoka episode 4 was pretty good since the hero actually accepts. It'll be interesting to see what happens with that later on in the show.

The #3 worked in Star Wars Empire Strikes Back when it was used to also set-up the plot twist of Darth Vader and Luke being father and son.

I hate the "I'm so evil i'm not human" and "I just want to destroy existence (including Me)" trope

Hey Brandon, thanks for the video! The Stylish throwaway villain is definitely somewhere at the top of my most hates cliches because it just feels like the character wasn't even written in until the end or the writers just made a perfect villain for the hero and then decided to not use it for some reason. On a somewhat similar note, what is your opinion on the "it was a dream / hallucination from the start" cliche, to me its one of the worst cliches and makes me feel like the whole series / movie I just watched was worth none of the time I invested in caring for the story.

You know, the throwaway villain trope isn't limited to movies either unfortunately, as it was also present in anime as well. An infamous example is Raditz from Dragon Ball Z.

I hate when Hero instantly forgives the villain for all the bad stuff they did because the villain has a tragic backstory. Like no no no no no, we are not going to ignore the dozens of innocent people you slaughtered because you were sad once. If you want a redemption arc, earn it.

I appreciate that The Incredibles played this trope off by having Syndrome begin monologuing and then acknowledge that he did that. Or when Cap asks Ultron about what he's doing and Ultron responds, "I'm glad you asked because I wanted to take this time to explain my evil plan to you..." Love it when films acknowledge the trope like that

Great video. I dislike the villain with "tons of money that simply wants to rule the 🌎". Lazy writing for this one; they never provide any depth of why the desire is there or why the villain thinks he should do it. The villain is hollow. Also, the conflict leans too much of an extreme situation which also feels hollow.

My most hated cliche is that they underestimate the hero WAYYY too much. I used to watch an anime show were the main villain would always send his henchmen to do his dirty work and when he finally shows up, he temporarily defetes the hero but resumes sending his henchmen after that episode. and the most annoying part was that after every faliure, he thought that his henchmen were just making excuses not knowing that the heroes were getting more powerful by every episode.

As a parent who has seen too many kid's shows, I can't stand the, "I was only being mean because I didn't have any friends. If Pete stole all of Mickey's sheep because he was bored, then including him might give him fewer opportunities to give in to his bad impulses, but it's not going to magically erase his bad tendencies.

My anti hero actually DOES join the villain with her 'join me' speech, but only does so to double cross later. I like turning cliches on the heads

Similar to the convoluted plan, my most hated is a plan that will harm the villain as much as everyone else. For example, in the first Blade movie, the villain's plan is to become a blood God that can turn humans into vampires just with his presence. Vampires win the war, so it's great, right? Only one problem - if it becomes so easy to vampirise humans, then who do the vampires have left to eat?Genuinely crazy or self loathing villains get a pass on this one.

I agree on all but the example for number 3 hits close to home so I have to defend it 😅 I believe it works in Spider-Man because the Goblin is an egomaniac, and believes he has already bested Spider-Man by having control of the situation like he says "I could squash you like a bug right now" but he sees that there is potentially more to gain from the situation. Goblin knows he can wreak havoc alone but if he had the one person who could/would be willing to stop him on his side? Then its game over for New York. It also works to show that Spider-Man isn't invincible in the sense that he technically was defeated in the encounter that lead to him being drugged and kidnapped. As the Goblin says, either way innocent lives will suffer by way of innocent bystanders being in harms way, or by sadistic intentions of causing massive chaos and devastation so therefore he ultimately does not care which choice Spider-Man makes, as he knows he gets what he desires both ways. Overall I agree that it is a cliché but this is my defense for why it works for that particular example, not to mention the movie has several elements of early 2000s campiness in it and so this trope fits right in.

For a trope I don’t like: Recurring villains that are more of a nuisance than a threat. They’re more annoying than anything and in some cases are there just for comic relief (Team Rocket from Pokémon, Dr. Eggman from Sonic, Emperor Pilaf from Dragon Ball).

A good example of 4 done well can be seen in Arrow season 1 and 2 (before the show jumped the Sify shark) I loved when Merlin comes with this over the top plan. The good guys celebrate and then Merlin pulls out a last Uno on them. That was smart thinking. Then in season 2 with Deathstroke with an over the top plan that actually work as he killed Oliver's mom.

2:05 This is basically example of Solon and Kronya from Fire Emblem Three Houses, they are introduced, yes, they are villains and they are underdeveloped, to make matters worse, they both died in the same chapter, which is annoying because Solon can be a really intimidating endgame villain, but writers decided to kill him off.

Here's one that I think should be on the list (although maybe it's sort of a combination of Selectively Dangerous and Unnecessarily Complicated Plans?): since stories largely follow the protagonist with interjections involving the villain, sometimes it really doesn't make sense when you think about what the villain is doing to occupy their time between appearances. Maybe this could be called the Sitting on Their Thumbs Villain. An example that comes to mind for me is Voldemort in almost any of the Harry Potter books, but especially the Order of the Phoenix. Every once in a while, there will be a sentence along the lines of "Voldemort's on the move" to remind you he's doing something, but also "Why would he do anything when the Ministry are so helpfully pretending he's not back?" to justify that he's NOT doing anything. Did it really take him an entire year to send an envoy to the giants and send a couple of people into the Department of Mysteries? It doesn't actually make sense, it's just to artificially make the final conflict happen at the school year's end.

The "join me" moments can be great at times. I don't remember where I saw it, but one vilain was talking about how the hero and himself were similar, and how he should join him. Ofc the hero refused it, but all this time the vilain didn't care as well, he just wanted to buy time for sthg else. And instead of being annoyed by such an obvious cliché, I was rather impressed by the vilain cunningness.

2:42 I kind of have this one in my novel, but in a different way. The villain offers the "join me" proposal right at the beginning, and the protagonist accepts because of the opportunity to create connexions and get resources that would help her in her personal goal, an opportunity that she's afraid will never appear again. The moral implications of that choice and the impact it has on her as a person will determine how the story progresses

The only "Join me" proposal that ever felt right to me is Star Wars (knowing that they are father and son), but everything else that came after just felt so forced and cliche.

Yes, thank you for mentioning Darth Maul! Always bothered me how he was killed off in a second

I like the "join me" proposal trope tbh. It is not a mystery whether the hero will decline, but it's very interesting how they do it. Temptation is something we all struggle with and we absolutely need models to follow in resisting it.

1:22 this sequence in the manga was very different as it involved different characters who were cutted out I reccomende to everyone to always read the manga as it is way better

Hi Brandon, I’m writing a story that changes perspective between 4 different characters. All storylines connect multiple times and come together by the end. Can you do a video on how to do stories like this? Examples I know of are Pulp Fiction and Requiem for a Dream.

The "selectively dangerous villain" is due to unimaginitive writing rather than lazy writing, it seems. This is underlined in detective fiction where a Veronica Mars detective is much harder to write-as-you-go because the reader ain't buying it if she kicks down a door with a gun in each hand when the author gets stuck. That ends up meaning that the author has no choice but to wait until a clever solution comes to mind instead, which can have some nice results. How about the giant monsters, sometimes even with CLAWS, who pick up the hero and throw him at something breakable instead of just kill him? 😂

“We’re not so different, you and I.” Is one of my all time most hated villain cliches

The 'join me' trope is great when the proposal is actually enticing. Game of thrones does this constantly

For me the worst is "irredeemable monster" where the villain is just so evil it leads to plot holes and often makes no sense

The cliche I hate the most is the villain killing their subordinates or hired experts out of psychotic whimsy, to prove a point to the hero, or due to the paranoid "tying up loose ends" trope. It might retain some impact with audiences if it hadn't been done to death in every other 90's and 00's thriller/action film. Sure it has happened in reality, but nowhere near as much as is portrayed in fiction. Mercenaries and Henchmen wouldn't work for a leader who kills them on a dime. Villain shoots the tech geek who designed your super weapon -word gets around. Good luck to ever succesfuly hiring one again.

I agree in everything, but when it comes to Darth Maul I think all that mistery around him made him even better

In one idea I have for a story, I've flipped the "Join me" cliche on its head, by having the antagonist be misguided - she doesn't know she's doing the wrong thing. The protagonist eventually uses this to his advantage by making an offer to team up, and once the offer is accepted, she gets stabbed in the back.

i feel like one of the only times where the "fatal monologue cliché" works is when the identity of ghostface is revealed in every scream movie because you kinda need to know why the killers started to kill.

Loyal underlings. When a villain shows they are perfectly willing to kill their overly loyal underlings when they fail and the underlings just accept that fate. Fear only gets you so far before the next guy decides to off you in your sleep to save his own hide, or turn informant for the hero in order to escape his fate.

6:35: Either Villains trying to conquer the world or a Villain offers the hero to join. (Which was one of the five.)

Great video, Brandon! To me, your videos are sacrosanct. I've made some major improvements in my novel writing ever since I found your channel.

You uploaded this video just in time! I was gonna go eat a midnight snack while watching some writing advice haha.

I love these critiques because whenever I try to talk to my friends abt this stuff they think I’m being knit picky but I just don’t like bad writing

#3 can work when there's actual stakes to the offer. Either the villain's entire motivation in their interactions with the hero is to draw them to the dark side because of some connection the hero and villain have (this is why it worked for Vader), OR they have a mutual enemy that it would make sense to team up and defeat or a mutual goal they actually do share with opposing methods, OR the villain has put the hero in such a bad position at this point that the hero might not have a choice but to accept the offer. "Work with me or your girlfriend's head explodes" tends to overrule moral conundrums in the immediate moment. Where it really gets interesting is when the hero actually does say yes.

The worst part about Maul is that they know he was killed off too soon, and thus BRING HIM BACK. But he DIED, got chopped IN HALF. So now death means nothing. And these days, a lightsaber wound is only mild inconvenience.