use link intotheam.com/HARSTEM10-pants for a discount on those banging pants. Patreon: / harstem My second youtube channel: / @harstemcasts Twitter: / harstemsc2 Twitch: / harstem Instagram : / harstemsc #harstem #SC2 #StarCraft2
See, that's how advertising should be done. Irene's acting skills were so convincing, I almost believed for one second that I wanted some stretch fabric, elastic waist, comfort fit, ugly trousers just like Harstem's (but obviously much much shorter, because I'm not a giant) before common sense snapped me back to reality with the realisation that even my own wife wouldn't sleep with me if I did that.
@@ghosthunter0950 He might be a centaur, just like Tasteless and Artosis We never get to see his lower half when he's playing (the one on the ad is a stunt double)
The video of Harstem with pants on is clearly AI generated. You can tell by the way the pixels are. And also by the fact that Harstem is wearing pants.
@@ThueJanusKristensen A.I. generation is most commonly identified by mistakes in logic. Key points to identify include the number and orientation of fingers, the hair, and the fact that Harstem does not wear pants.
I wanted to point out that Hackerinos spotted the zealots with his viking a minute or so before Harstem pointed out how weird it was that he found them. So that move at least seemed legit.
Agreed. I don't think Hackerinos is a cheater. He's just a typical bad mech terran who's only skill seems to be spotting obs shimmers in the game graphics. He also occasionally remembers that toss opponents will try to do small prism/zealot attacks to distract and lure the slow mech army out of position, in order to then target one of the outside terran bases with their main toss army. This is why he immediately runs back with his army after clearing up the first few zealot pushes into his main and natural. Still, Killa absolutely carved him up like a prime steak in this game, gg wp!
@@aquilegia9734 Yeah, I think I agree with the army movement. He seemed to be paranoid of prism harass. Also I was thinking about it but the Viking spotting the zealots also explains why he was microing it so much, he knew there had to be a prism flying around, as how else would the zealots be there, so he was looking for it
SimpleOne here, thanks for reviewing my game! It's really weird how obvious the cheating was in hindsight. Also I was aware that this wasn't my best performance, but man, do I suck 😅
@@trufflepudding4704 Cheating in SC is extraordinarily rare bro, selling your laptop because there is a 0.1% chance of encountering a cheater does not make sense, on top due to the skillgaps in sc will a objectively better player still win a good majority or have the gut feeling something was off like Simpleone felt. Most players wont be able to capitalize andor are easily caught when reviewing the replay, i know how you feel but this aint counterstrike
Did you win? I wanted to see the ending :D. You were doing very well given that the dude was extremely likely to be hacking, don't be too hard on yourself.
OK what cinches the last guy being a hacker for me is what you see at 27:34 - the Observer is hanging out in anti-f2 mode and the hacker scans the exact spot where the obs is. Hits the cloaked unit dead center with it.
This happens again at 22:20 - the single viking is positioned and the scan is placed EXACTLY on the observer. Do maphacks reveal invisible units as well? I mean, once is a coincidence, by two perfect scans centered on the observer?
@@MathBar there is a shimmer in the graphics when there's a cloaked unit. hard to spot, but visible if you move the camera. I dont think the guy is cheating he's 1. really bad (about as bad as I am lol) 2. gets lucky few times 3. has good eye to shimmers from observers.
When a low level player is literally spotting every observer despite having no map awareness at all I think that's worth noting too. Definitely would help the analysis to remember that hackers are not very bright and make terrible decisions constantly.
And just because he has vision doesn’t mean he’s actually looking at the minimap. His movements are only sus when nothing else is going on. Once his attention is elsewhere he’s immediately overwhelmed. This ain’t rank roulette, but this dude is def punching above his weight
This guy ain't mech-turtling right, no turrets guarding the main and the natural expo (did he ever build them ??), also no sensor towers as mentioned by Harstem, that's kinda sus if you ask me
That's actually pretty interesting, I never once even suspected an opponent of maphacking but with thousands of games it seems quite likely to have happened at least once.
The only time I've ever been *sure* an opponent was maphacking was when the guy started sending me unsolicited critique of my build order. Which was a bit weird, given that he didn't have vision of *any* part of my build.
The logic of the depo's was simple if you try to think like a moron, to wall and stall for time as his army was out of position but as he is a stupid hacker he started his masterplan when it was already way to late. Harstem assumes these script kiddie hackers are gonna acct like giga brain pros hacking when in fact they cheat to compensate for the fact that they suck. Map hack does not give you multitasking, micro or macro skills it gives unfair situational awareness but not the skill to utilize it.
Point is he changes his mind once information shows up on his player view multiple times throughout the game so either he is toggling or trying to meta check spectators.
Look at the camera movement in the end, where Harstem thinks he isn’t looking sus. He pans the camera BEFORE the army shows up TWICE. I think he maybe turned MH off or something for a while. Nice to see you crushed him anyway.
I disagree, based on that moment in the end. He was caught by zealots while right-clicking pylon? It's a finale, zealots are 5 tiles away from him, and he couldn't react in time... Where was he looking at?)
The reason you make those depots is because you want it to look like that's what you were going to do and thats how you knew the attack was coming. Ex-map hacker. A lot of map hacking (To not get caught) is looking like you're trash on purpose but making the right calls directly afterwards. You work reactively instead of proactively. No need to scout ever if you see things moving on the minimap. The second he started putting those depots down and canceled them immediately ANDDD selected all those workers to move them instantly, having shown a sheer lack of speed in move commanding things is just evidence enough to me that he was cheating. It follows no logic. He hasn't been quick to do anything all game and somehow suddenly, he canceled both depots, selects all of those workers, lifts his command center, moves his army all at once? Nah I dont buy it.
The stalkers were in vision when he was queuing them, and he cancelled them also in vision. He might not be fast at reacting at the map but okay at reacting at things on screen (like me)
@@assault410 I didn't say he was good. Also, sometimes, to appear as if you're not cheating, you'd sacrifice things. Obviously, if he is cheating, which I am sure he is, he seems like he knows what watching replays in FP view looks like and is trying to make it hard to tell he's cheating.
@@kurt7937 Yea, that was long ago though. It was in broodwars before sc2 was even announced. I was in a group that had no idea I was maphacking and mineral glitching. I was youngggg back then and wanted people to respect me. It wasn't worth the time because when I went to sc2, I sucked real bad and had to relearn how to play. Stuck in bronze then worked my way to plat. If I had just played legit I'd never have had that many issues.
Could make sense if he only scans after seeing the shimmer, but never scanning otherwise on top of never building a Sensor Tower or Turret despite the constant drops? Definitely hacker.
@@fluffyfang4213 the observers weren't moving before or during the scan what shimmer ? And at least 2 of them were out of sight before moving towards them and scanning for them.... Also the scan of the initial observer, Harstem argument that it makes sense because those stalkers were shooting up the ramp hence must be an observer would hold if he scanned immediately after deflecting the attack but he didn't he scanned a minute later exactly on top of the thing ....
@@euLIRIC Observers shimmer even without moving. There was a recent update that greatly increased their visibility while invisible by making them bigger and making their idle animation faster.
The issue with Hackerinos is that it's full of moments that look like obvious hacks, and also full of moments that look like it's impossible any hacker would play that way.
I'm sitting on 95% sure for hackerinos and it's mostly the way the Viking tracked the Prism. Mirrored movement, excessive focus/clicking, out of vision, all while there's an active threat to respond to. In fact, with how much focus he devotes to defending against drops, it's impressive he never builds a Sensor Tower.... or a turret.
To me it was hackerinos retreating his entire thor army back to base disengaging an advantageous chase to defend from a zealot runby he had no vision of yet.
That alone wouldn't be conclusive for me, we have to look at other examples where he moves the viking into that deadzone. If he ever spam clicks when there's nothing there then it could just be something he does. I think he's a hacker that' bad at the game. Like the reaper early wasn't a fake scout, but an actual attempt to harass
@@DudethatGross My issue with this rebuttal is that you can apply this to almost any hacker. You can take the most egregious fog-of-war peeker and they're still going to make moves that don't align with the information they should have.
There were also too many times he scanned directly on top of an observer. Sure there was the one time he reasonably should have known it was there, but there were two other quite random times where the observer was dead center.
Im a programmer, and know a little bit how hacks work, and how they get around detection. The anticheat warden doesnt run all the time, it does periodic checks of the memory. The not as good hacks will detect when warden is doing the check, and disable the hack momentarily until warden is finished, and then reenable when its done. The best hacks will completely fudge the data warden collects, so it never has to turn off. I think that last game may have been a perfect example of the not as good hack.
From a cheat perspective I think it's easier to disable the warden if you figure out the entry point than to disable your own cheat, right? It's just adding an early return. Else you need to somehow figure out when warden is running etc
I think a general rule that is often true in these cases is if you are above 5k MMR and you don't scout, you are automatically either a hacker or a very weird person.
Harstem doesn't seem to understand that lower-level players, even just under GM, don't have the mental APM to look at mini map constantly, even if they have no fog of war. All the times they didn't notice something and it "seemed odd" can simply be explained by they were paying attention to something else and didn't even look at the mini map. I get at the professional level that seems unheard of and "crazy" but everyone below that just isn't able to keep up, even when relatively noting is happening.
Regarding second games, it's common for dropships to hug the edge of the map to avoid overlord when you're dropping. That said, the fact that he didn't scout at all is kind of stupid. I haven't done that since my early days in the silver league.
If people who are good at non detect cheat like they do in chess they will only have the maphacks on at key timings in the game. They won’t use it when not needed to avoid detection. Small cheat advantages at key times are enough to snowball to a win, you don’t need it on all the time, and the fact that some bad calls are made don’t automatically mean it’s not a cheater, it just means they believe they’ve snowballed enough to win without it already.
in the mind of a gold player (mine), I would build depots to block the attack if my units weren't in position. Assuming the attack was still being staged. Hackerino's is definitely a Gold player and at that level its next to impossible to spot a non-moving observer.
@@kooldad1 Harstem said that it was ~5k MMR game. Also if you think that is gold level macro (which is not really that effected by potential cheats) respectfully you really need to watch the game again. At the *very* least it's master's macro or maybe high diamond IMO
38:00 find on the zealots: they have been spottet before! see 25:59 / 25:36 since he shot the warpprism the zealots must still be there. Also the calling the forces back after the move-out ... could just be that he is a typical terrain turtle and too afraid to walk across the map, especially since there had been 2 run by's before from the top...
The fact that hackerino scrolls everywhere without having a single camera hotkey is the reason why his plays were so bad. He couldnt keep up with everything killa was doing. Its very clear that killa is over 2k mmr more in skill then hackerino. The mirroring of the viking, and not paying attention to the fight leads me to believe he had some outside help
3rd Replay: Re: Zealot Find east of Main Base. You see the Zealots running around there when his Viking is chasing after the Warp Prism. He reasonably could've known they were there. I'm more convinced he is a hacker by virtue of how poorly several of his decisions were for him to be in that MMR range. But it could've just been a bad matchup.
At 23:32, terran sees the zealots just afk'ing. They're not moving with the protoss army, so they're gonna be coming back in a prism. The only really suspicious thing is the viking movement. terran has already been hit twice by prisms in that same spot and he knows there are zealots there. You can't give someone credit for hugging the edge of the map with a medivac and then blame someone for checking the edge of the map with a viking when he knows an attack is coming from exactly there.
I could dox the Ingame name of this guy. I´m killa and still have the replay as well as name. Not sure if I want to do it though. Let it be harstems job to find the puzzle pieces. Definitely felt super suspicious after playing that game vs Hackerino (I´m killa btw :D)
@@AK-747 no he’s 100% hacking a lot of people don’t say it but he did a lot of things unintentionally to make it look realistic because if he had defended everything before you attacked it would give it away notice his reaction of army movement it’s not even about the Viking at this point it’s him knowing the pre location of attack without seeing I remember when I played and was masters even I couldn’t predict this it would all be a random attack I would be waiting for
I think the zealot find on the 2nd game didn't seem too suspicious. He saw them with the banshee and viking earlier so makes sense to think there might still be zealots in the area
One thing worth bearing in mind for the second game, with the viking/prism behaviour, and the zealots in the mineral line afterwards, is that I find lower elo players tend to hyperfocus on small things (because that's what pro players do) while throwing the bigger picture out of the window (not what pro players do). It wouldn't surprise me at all if the prism/zealots were the only thing on his mind at that point, and the massive fight happening outside the front of his base was an afterthought. Same with the unsieging of the tanks only to move them into a worse spot; how many games of iodis have we seen where players perform negative micro?
The Viking/prism mirror has absolutely sold me on the idea that this guy is a hacker. The 4th base depot move was obviously a massive stinky red herring, which has also tricked The Captain, as I can see.
I dont think we can determine if hackerino was a hacker based on this one game. The viking tracking could be a coincidence since he did previously see the zelots and only flew the viking out of position due to an F2 before bringing it back to the dead space. Also most of the other suspicious things could easily fall under the coincidence umbrella which is concerning because I see lots of people calling him a hacker.
the viking one almost certainly was not a coincidence, why would he over micro it so much when he is being attacked AND 100% mirror the prism's movement, he wasn't just putting the viking in the dead space or putting it on patrol, he literally was moving that exact place it was moving to and looking at it in fog of war, no shot it was accidental, if it was he would have done something like that before or after, but he never even microd one unit seperately ever. No it does not fall easily under coincidental, only if you try really hard to excuse it, scanning every single obs instantly, while the guy has like 70 apm and no map vision or awerness is crazy, not building a sensor tower as a turtle mech player is crazy, almost always mirroring army movement apart from when he is focusing all of his 70 apm on something else is crazy, multiple times attacking into the protoss when he has no vision of it whatsoever is crazy. So many things don't happen by accident. Also its absolutely worth mentioning how awful he is and how much better the toss is, its legit like at least a 1000 mmr diffrence, that also just doesn't happen by accident Guy 99.99999% sure a hacker
@@norberthiz9318 I don't know what to tell you bro, he saw the zealots in the corner with the Viking accidentally pulled it away with an F2, and it took him about 3 clicks to move it back to the dead space. Now I also don't use camera hotkeys and scroll with the screen, (I'm not great) I can totally understand clicking the Viking towards the dead space, moving your vision down and repeating 2 more times. One of the important moments to me was when he sent his cloak banshi to the base with a battery even though there was nothing happening, and the fact that he never screen peaks. To reiterate I never said he is 100% not a hacker, but I don't think you should be certain enough to ban someone based on this game. I think we all have gotten lucky breaks playing an RTS at some point and don't forget when you are looking for suspicious plays you will always find them in every game.
a few things that stuck out to me that Harstem didn't notice or mentioned during the Killa vs Hackerinos game that makes me suspicious of hackerinos. Hackerinos never once scanned the map to check the enemies bases or potential army movements despite knowing about the Scan ability which they used to perfectly catch the Observers (I can see the first scan making sense but not the second. At 20:41 Hackerinos sends the Banchee over to the Prism despite not having vision in that corner of the map (no depot). I could be wrong but I don't think pro players are going to be that accurate when the prism or the medivac wasn't spotted. In my opinion, the reason hackerinos makes sloppy mistakes is to make it less obvious he's a hacker, but there are far too many coincidences for to make me think he's a genuine player.
The game between IdontTalk and hacker legit looked like hacker was going for a medivac drop, where you try to skirt the edges of the map to avoid any of your opponent's scouts, and he had a 50/50 shot of stumbling on IdontTalk's hidden bases; probably due solely to the creep spread...
Please show the endings of the replays quick if it was close! I was pulling for the first person SimpleOne to beat the opponent despite it being an obvious hacker, and I'm so curious now :D. Fun series, thanks.
I enjoyed the sponsored advert about the cool pants. You have a fun, nonchalant attitude, which i feel your girlfriend shares and it works so well. I hope you got paid well for that cause you and your girl deserve it. so stylish and fun.
How's this for a series idea: You over-analyze a game in its entirety, going over every mistake you see and how you would fix it. That game with the proxy hatcheries would have been solved with a reaper, but that takes time to know that you're also macroing up and preparing behind that. The last game with mech was weird. He didn't make sensor towers, but then again he didn't expand very far and wasn't active on the map. That center position before the fight at the fourth was the center of the three, a natural resting place. His movement with the Viking could have been to remove that one annoyance while trusting his defenses to hold while he killed that mosquito. If he was a hacker he needed to have been more active on the map in order to not fall behind. Which is the idea of the series. You have the skill and knowledge to give a small example of everything you think of in a game. Making those examples be of varying levels would give all of those levels solid ways to improve. I don't know how long the videos would be, I'm guessing not short. But they likely wouldn't need to be updated, unit control/movement, generic fight tactics, hotkey/vision hotkey setup. Ways/ideas for others to improve. Otherwise, I still love your channel! It's always great to hear your explanations and willingness to operate in good faith.
To me, the fast worker pull at the fourth with no other worker pulls all game, the unit movement to the fourth before the zealots were spotted and watching the fourth beforehand, the Viking movement and attacking idling zealots archon prism out of vision on the left were all Uber suspicious for such a low apm seeming mech Terran. It’s all circumstantial though, and being in position between the natural and third for most the game doesn’t really prove much. I agree another game is needed. I also would guess the tanks remaining unsieged in moveouts and late walls/responses are more a testament to skill level and playstyle than innocence and more likely to happen again than one might assume whether they are cheating or not.
I think even the suspicious moments in that last game could have a legit explanation. The weirdness at the 4th: he was already focussed on expanding in that area and when the attack started he had no army there to micro, so he cancelled the depots and pulled the workers. During the drops/run-bys he was concentrating on his units so didn't bother moving the workers. His unit movement is just turtley for the most part - not chasing too far, regularly moving back to the middle ramp, etc. The viking movement seems sus, but he saw zealots being ported into the fog-of-war warp prism so wouldn't be hard to figure out that it was about to attack and there was only a sliver of FoW left to the south. Seeing that there was zealots positioned there would also explain why he sent a part of his army down to check later in the game. The only observer he blind scanned was the one that let the stalkers hit the high ground so was obviously in the FoW. Terran could even be an off-race for him, which would explain the lack of sensor and missile towers, weird unit composition/build order/upgrades and limited use of siege mode. Not being familiar with the race would probably explain a lot of discrepancies. He seems like a guy who likes to sit back and build up his ideal army before attacking. I had a similar style in the OG StarCraft back in the day, I also scrolled the screen a lot and barely used hotkeys. And/or he was just getting off-race practice and wasn't sure what he was doing a lot of the time. And/or he's a filthy hacker 😅 Really hard to tell with that single game without at least knowing his match history.
I do think it's better to be careful and only look for 99.99-100% certain things. Circumstantial evidence in this kind of series is super easy to work into your head that you just see the patterns, it's actually a really hard psychological problem to deal with.
At 30:00 the 2x depots at the 4th base look like a bluff. There is only a single frame after the Protoss come into view before all SCV's & mules are selected & moving away to the top left, no other responses in the game have been anywhere near that fast. Also the prism tracking from earlier was way too accurate, compared with how you would normally do a random search & patrol.
I think he simply wasn't looking at the mininmap, the guy is insanely slow and he just dealt with a prism and started macroing and then the moment the toss shows on his screen still in fog of war, he f2s his army there and pulls away his workers. He was mirroring the toss army movement all game except when he was under pressure
29:21 I think terran just sees a mass of units to the right and starts setting up a depot wall just before the zealots start moving forward _edit_ yeah 29:58
Harstem PLEASE use the “player camera view” more. So many of hackerino’s engagements could have been gauged one way or another if we just saw what he was looking at on his screen
The weird thing about the barcode toss is he sees no oracle, but doesn't go DT. I didn't see whether there was a cannon or not, but there definitely wasn't an observer. DTs would deal massive damage to this player, but the guy who can see everything doesn't use them. You can snipe his robo if he has one and his stargate and this guy would be screwed, 0 detection and all he can do is try to build cannons hoping they don't get scouted before completing. That is death's door right there, no advantage taken.
Harstem for visual fidelity can you always leave Anti-aliasing graphic setting to its highest, even for your low res pro matches the AA just improves the smoothness of the different objects and won't negatively impact your visibility. If your wondering what it affects when your looking at the edge of a nexus its very visible like a staircase when Anti-aliasing is off.
it might be interesting to do a video where you play a game against someone better than you but you have full vision, just to further get inside the mind of a map hacker or even do a challenge where you have a group of people play but one of them is map hacking and you try to pick them out
16:31 He perfectly moved the banshee to stay out of the vision of the observer that you can see on the mini map a bit later when Harstem switches to both players vision. I do find it funny that a few seconds after this he says “this banshee movement seems legit”
31:37 lets make sense out of it: if hackerino was maphacking they knew that rescuing that base would be a very tight call, so they build some distraction depots to gain a few more seconds to defend the base. The depots didnt make it in time, but then killa barely didnt destroy the base, but then it burned down anyway.. Droping mules is also not completely incorrect, because if you loose that base you at least gonna a few extra minerals from these patches by using the mules, whereas keeping the energy might not archive much, because theres a reasonable chance that the first 3 bases run out minerals anyway.
4:00 To be fair he knows there's a natural because of the pheonix, no such thing as 1 base halluc pheonix for scouting purposes, nor is 1 base pheonix a thing that exists (outside of specific scenarios)