@@kaiser2261 the moding community implemented a zoom-out for "real scale", and using such in pvp would be hacking (because you are modifying the game client.
The center of the click is in the direction of where the observer was going. So he clicked where he saw the unit moving to. Also, dont you love that fricking observers are so hard to see even when you can technically see them?
@@user-dv5ts3de8e Ya games being free to play basically just make it so there's no consequences for hacking. It's why there should be some cost, to playing on the ladder
@@user-dv5ts3de8e it's still extra steps which may deter some of doing it, plus you lose progress which I guess is the reason they do it? To feel better about themselves? I cant think of another reason to cheat in this game since you can't even RMT, and they're not boosting anyone in team ranked or anything like that
@@NuStiuFrate Harstem made a pretty clear and solid argument, that you have to show them you are better in every possible way, which includes to gg every game. Also hackers get off of ragequit without gg. Don't give em the satisfaction....
@@eltritch I'm not convinced by his argument. To me it feels more like being a doormat, letting some cheater walk all over you and then being polite about it and saying "gg". You're not showing him you're better, you're showing him you are ok with being cheated.
@@NuStiuFrateIt's about state of mind, gg and move on or get caught up in your anger and then end up not enjoying yourself. If it makes you feel better you could always say weak gg lol git gut cheater scrub then exit and give them no chance to reply but what if they weren't cheating. GG and get back in the fight lol. As always if anyone reads till here I hope you are having a great day.
I really do like this series because Harstem gives a voice to those who's complains would normally go unheard being so low down the Starcraft 2 totem pole.
FYI from the lower leagues Kevin, build orders are only easy to learn if you're already pretty good. I recently learned one proper build order at plat 1 and it took hours to get it down such that I didn't screw anything up. When to send out a worker (so its where your next building goes right on time), when to cut workers, making units, scouting, it ends up taking 100 apm to do it right; so when you can only manage 100 apm, every part of the build order has to be automatic because if you have to think, you're late with something. You probably only need to remember a few key things about each build order and the rest is "common" sense. Also Prick's advantage from hacking is (at least in his head) reacting to what he sees; so he can't follow a build order.
@LittleRainGames yes absolutely, my actions aren't evenly spaced. I'm certainly doing 4 actions some seconds and 1 others. Regardless, following a build order well saturates my abilities. To the reply disagreeing with apm spikes: APM is a weird thing, giving an average for a rate of discrete events is tricky as what period you average over has a huge effect. It's valid to say 1 action is 1 million apm over 1 microsecond; but that's not meaningful in the SC2 context.
I mean, I think a build order at lower skills isn't meant to be followed perfectly. I think if you have a solid braindead macro build order and have a decent sense for how to respond to cheese that's what you need, there's no reason to get cute. Beyond getting out your expo you should basically never use a build that has you cut workers given that players in Diamond regularly cut workers on accident. Also no scouting is perfectly valid if you're trying to learn, sure you might lose to a cheese every now and then but it's about improving in the long term. To me what's more important is it gives you a framework through which you can build up your fundamentals like having your production structures constantly working, your decision making in fights, responding to unforeseen circumstances, and generally building game sense. You're not gonna do it perfect every time and that's okay, as long as you stay flexible and can use your game sense to adapt it's really easy to hit diamond.
To be fair, I too a long time ago back 25 years ago in the cnc/wc3/sc1 days used to drag the screen across the map in the fog as well. How ever, At 18:44 you can see the observer on the middle right. -- hes ''seeing'' ''cloaked'' ''observers''' with his ''coincidental screen peeks''... you do not even see a light shimmer of cloaked units in the fog of war. This is because when units are in the fog of war their models are not loaded and thus glazes do not activate, Similar to when gigantic unit models disappear too early when they reach the corner of the screen, such as the hive, where it is so big it has mesh (the side tower arms) out side the model bounds (the corner of your screen), causing the hive to prematurely disappear a fraction of a second too eartly, known to most as a graphical error. Fixable by increasing the range of the bounding box. Models that are not in the current screen are not loaded, this is part of how sc2 works, to save memory. When the Cloak Glaze activates, it does so because actor events have told it to play one of 8* animations. When cloaked units are yours they gain a transparent material layer and a glaze material layer, causing it to be both blue and transparent, when they are cloaked for the enemy, they gain a completely different set of material properties that change the alpha channels to 0% the diffuse channels to 1% the glosses to 0% the speculars to 0% the Height Maps to 0% the normals to 0% and the emissives to 0% which causes virtually one hundred percent transparency creating the illusion of not being there because the mesh is not displaying hardly any of its properties, creating ''the light shimmer'' using a rare type of material known as a ''Distortion layer''. The ''Shimmer'' created by the distortion layer is known as ''cloakglaze'' and it comes from the actor known as the ''SYS_ACTOR_CONFIG'' which applies either the higher quality cloak model glaze known as ''Cloak'' or the second option ''Cloak Low'' (for lower graphics settings [It uses less particles and has a lower brightness on the particles it does have]). These 2 model glazes use 8* animations each to apply their states, so when they are your own they are transparent blue mesh (cloak), when they are revealed they suddenly appear (cloak enemy end) and when they cloak they disappear (cloak enemy start), when they are the enemy and they are not detected they are in another animation (cloak enemy) and have other properties such as being unclickable and un left click drag selectable, and cannot be attacked directly by weapons, until they are detected. Because weapons use flags called the Required: Visible flag. To play the animation known as birth 6, which is what you most commonly refer to as an undetected cloaked units shimmer disappearing, the model has to be within the screen bounds and detected. I theorize the hacker is seeing the red dot on the map, but isnt seeing exactly what it is in his screen, due to a memory saving function that is not even showing the observers shimmer (cloaked glaze animation #5 and #6), hence it is instead using no animations at all. To see what unit on his minimap is a red dot, he has to screen over it, at 23:57, to see what it is, and is taking so long, because he cant find it, which is to the right. You (Harstem) can see it because the model got loaded for the replay, but he cant find it because the SYS_ACTOR_CONFIG does not know it should be showing him any thing, since normally it wouldn't need to be, because it only plays animations 5 and 6 when both in a players screen (#5) or when its detected/decloaks (#6), He knows its there because of the minimap dot, but he cant see it at all because if he did then it would mean SYS_ACTOR_CONFIG is malfunctioning. Which is a rare bug that only happens to units marked by the flags known as the ''Uncloakable'' flag, the ''Undetectable'' flag, and the ''Visible through fog of war'' flag. but in this case I theorize it is not malfunctioning, and is infact doing the exact thing its supposed to do. Which is nothing. I base this on my time creating my very own cloak glaze model, in my attempt to change the blue color into another color. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XK9xF341n6Y.html the viking is attack moved directly onto all 3 overlords in an instant. absolutely disgusting. And obvious. Well done harstem, very interesting video.
The duality of being glad something's being done about this unjust behavior while at the same time being disappointed that this behavior exists in the first place... we all feel it.
Sounds a bit like you're too angry about hackers in sc2 if it's the equivalent of a million burning suns. Imagine you break your leg falling down the stairs, is that a billion burning suns of rage then? or just half a sun and you are just really passionate about sc2? :D
the peak around 18:42 that you say is into nothingness. is actually a peak at the observer on the right side of the screen. he probably saw a red dot on the minimap where he was anticipating to go with his army, and peaked to see what the red dot was, he probably saw it was an observer and he approached navigating around the observer i was willing to say he might be placing camera points on his opponents base at the start. the thing hard to justify camera placements, is the peaks at the gold base early on.
Someone once commented on Winter's "hacker investigation" videos something like: "I wish there were more hackers so we could have more videos like this" Now I think the numbers have always been there. We just didn't realize it due to the lack of research.
Hey Harstem! You are the GOAT with these banger videos week after week. I look up to you for commentating tips and habits to get into and I think you are one of the best commentators out there! This turning into my favorite series, I can't wait to see more crying hackers!
15:50 IF I used maphacks, I’d definitely get a reaper. I select the reaper and shift command move around my opponents base which would let me scan his building under the cover of reaper micro
I think the map hackers don't use build orders because they ""don't need them"" since they have full information which allows them to use it as a crutch. Also: I don't think you get many replays from people who won against the map hacker because they won and moved on rather than being "stuck" on a loss.
Thank you for taking the time to do this. A lot of times hackusations are either dismissed as copelording without investigation, or believed without investigation. Particularly a lot of development studios will think things like "It costs money to deal with them" and "well at the end of the day they are customers too, and we don't want to boot customers" and "wouldn't it be cheaper to just deny that the problem exists?" The huge problem is that it becomes a feedback loop, as when your game gets known as a cheater haven that creates population sorting and then you really can't afford to kick out the cheaters when 90% of the player base you have left are cheating.
agreed. These people didn't do the hacking; they bought a program from a hacker. I can't imagine being dumb enough to run an app on your PC that you know for certain was created by a hacker.
a "hack" is a modification done to the game client to modify its functionality, or gain access to information that they are not supposed to have access too. who did the "hacking" is irrelevant, most people think of "hacking" as going in and looking at the code running in real time, or doing real time memory reading/writing these examples of hacking methods, but just running a program the does these things you are still hacking the game. (someone else is not just giving you the modifications to the client on the fly like recently with the Apex tournament). Hacking is a form of cheating, if someone found out that single player codes were enable able pvp that would be pure cheating through exploit, but not hacking (unless they modified the client to do so)
@@gardian06_85This is like calling someone a cook for microwaving pre-made meals. Of course it is fine if that’s the convention and there is no confusion. But as you said many people don’t think of the term “hacker” in that sense.
@@Y2B123 the user of these "hacks" did have to modify the client (even if it was "download this, and put it in this file, and have it running while in game"), and by generalization you can call that person you described a "cook" if they are doing it for money (mainly because many people putting chicken nuggets in the oven wouldn't call themselves a cook either, but that is what they are doing, and there are establishments that do it maybe with or without telling the customers). it is purity tests and gate keeping that say that 'a person who doesn't do at least X is not a cook', or going further a "hacker". cheating is the action being done, hacking is the method of cheating. the actual ban issued by Blizz would even be "cheating: hacking." whether they wrote the hack or just downloaded and installed it. A person who cooks a meal is still cooking if they prepared it in the microwave or the stove-top (both are just heating the food), and there are "microwave cookbooks" and it is just a appliance. not to mention that in some regions "microwave" could be shorthand for "microwave-over" where it could be used for either.
on the second map hacker, where you thought he miss-clicked, and didn't peek anything, there was an observer there. he peeked it, and a few seconds later it warpped in the army.
I remember in wol and hots it was so common to face hackers and many of them were making really obvious moves like cannon rushing you on a four player map without scouting where you spawned. Now it feels like there aren't many hackers left, certainly not at a high level anymore, and if there are any they are hiding it way better than this. I'm glad at least it's mostly under control now.
At high level MMR, cheaters likely just use it to minimap peek. Knowing if your opponent puts down an expo or has a marine drop coming in the edge of the map is a HUGE deal, and requires no screen peeking. They can also lock the camera while they look around.
Second game, I think Harstem is partly right about the hacker not knowing the map. At 14:58 he sees the peek to the gold base, and then asks "why do you need to peek if you can see it on the mini map?" But I think it's simple. The hacker can see the expansion, but needs to peek to see that it is the gold base, as you can't see mineral colours on the map.
you should do this while streaming, there is a lot of moments in G2 where you missed maphacking stuff like at 3:30, he pokes the probes, sees an adept, he can still technically harass the mineral line but stays on his reaper for like 8 seconds click him and running away for no reason ( well, the reason was that there was a stalker coming but he couldnt have known this )
I will occasionally look mostly at the enemy ramp out of the main near the start of the game, even though I've seen the map tens or hundreds of times I am sort of creating a mental map for myself "this is the ramp I have to go up later on" but 3 mins in and this Prick is way overboard.
Enemy Ramp hotkey actually is faster than double pressing reaper hotkey. Also some people don't hotkey their reapers, and prefer to send them to locations on the map they already have a camera hotkey for, this saves them time time from clicking the minimap, and allows their mouse to be right above their reapers when the screen pans over. If you take the time to hotkey your main and your natural, other bases while useful for non-zergs, are not nearly as important as "warp-in" / "rally location" and "hot spots" on the map. Being able to get your screen right where you want it without ever having to adjust it ( ie: hot key at the enemies 4rth, camera at the third, start to split marines towards the 4rth, instead of dragging your screen, of clicking 1 marine , giving it a hotkey, then double pressing that hotkey ... you can just press the camera location hotkey that you set at the 4rth, saving you so much time, people will think your the next MKP when they see your splits ) I am not saying the first Terran is preemptively setting up micro-related hotkeys.. but if you set up macro oriented hotkeys .. and choose to just rely on double tapping unit hotkeys (and/or) clicking the mini map for the rest, I personally think your making your life WAYYYY harder than it needs to be
Hey Harstem. In some RTS you can get limited amounts of information from looking at the unscouted areas. One of these examples are hunts in AOE3. Maybe some of them just play many different RTS and have oicked op a bad habit. (random useless screenpeaks)
i am the person who will usually send out a early scv when i play terran against toss.....sick to death of toss's attacking the worker building the barracks, and also good for scouting if there are cannons going up since you dont have anything to spot as terran, like overlords(zergs my main but i off race T a lot)
I play at a lower apm (around 80) in diamond and do some of the stuff the second guy did. It’s usually pretty easy for me to see the observer shimmer as I hover my own base a lot. The screen peeking from both of those guys was a bit egregious though, another one down!
2:03 on the flip side though, when you go into a replay expecting to find cheaters, it can be very easy to find them where none exist if you didn't have such high standards.
screen peak in fog of war are very suspicious when there is something behind fog of war. But if there is nothing, it might be that the person is just looking at map features (reaper spot, cannon rush spot, ways to attack) or moving units to it sometime too
To be fair, I was a lower league player and multiple times needed to check the map of how it looked on the opponent's side to understand how to send some units there. For some, it may look strange but it really took time to learn maps.
Back in the day with classic warcraft 3 some hackers turned on-and-off the maphack during game from time to time so that they would not be too obvious.
Keep in mind that it's possible some early screen peeks might happen because the suspect is thinking about sending a worker to scout and just decides not to - it's not like they have to focus much on their own base during the first minute anyway.
Please continue this series for getting hackers banned! Like you said a community service, although I consider the Imba series something of that too :)
I would like to see a game of starcraft between legitimate PROs who have maphack too. But the key would be they both are unware that the enemy has maphack.
every now and again you forget, because harstem seems like a funny guy... But then he says "allegiate" and "margueright" in the same 5 seconds and youre painfully reminded that he is indeed, very dutch.
I actually really like that you start out judging the alleged hacker fairly and attempt to defend them. Minimally you've definitely shown ME that a lot of suspect behavior is actually legitimate. This example is pretty egregious, but usually the top tell that they're cheating is the low APM and lower skill response to offensive maneuvers from the enemy given their rank. It's been really educational and I love the series :)
There are some people which when obviously ahead start delaying the game to build up a huge advantage and win in a most humiliating way for the opponent. In a way, they are playing with their prey. May be you know Medoed. Once he represented Russia at nation wars. He is kind of like that.
When I wallhacked in css I tried to hide it so hard, it was no flash that usually got me banned, haven’t done anything similar in years. 😅, get them captain !
3 rax plays with out 2nd gas. Coz u need so many suply depos, to afford so much production this is kinda adaptation of this build. This 2 marines and 2marauders build so fast so u need a lot of minerals.
In the second game, at about the 18:42 timestamp, he does screen peek the ob, so I wouldnt call it "nothing" but it also seems like a really dumb thing to peek for.
Although the rest of the peaks on the first game were obvious I don't think just looking around at the other end is that suspicious especially at the beginning, I'm a low masters and I haven't played in a while and came back and after like 30-40 games I still don't understand / remember the maps this season so I do a lot of looking around at the beginning before things actually start to happen.
hmmm for me i play 3v3 exlusive. i always prepare for a canon rush and early harass in my mineral line. like i prepare for the most common strats. i always have protection early! scouted or not, just in case of a rush.
