The fact that likeminded gun owners literally get their panties in a bunch over something as hair-splitting as barrel length or caliber selection is a sad statement about the gun community as a whole. Bunch of fucking losers.
Totally agree. People can’t wrap their head around true ballistic theory. For that matter, most “shooters” (“hunters” are even worse!) can’t even understand what MOA means and how it relates to impact/kill. EVERYBODY wants a 1/4moa gun and they believe they can actually shoot that😂😂. Silly city boys!
I was laughed off several websites more than 10 years ago asking about 16" creedmore barrels to replace my grendels. I had comments from velocity is king and I'd be hamstringing a long range round, to no barrel maker worth their salt will spin one up for you because it's a dumb idea, to 6.5 ammo is soo expensive for to chop the velocity down. Well, here we are. Grendel ammo is more expensive, velocity is almost the same except for much heavier more aerodynamic bullets, to much better range, and done in a semi-auto out to 1000. It's not dumb. I now have two CM's one that's a 16" AR that's my multipurpose rifle that can do out to 1000, but is comfy at 500-700, and a bolt action that I can dominate past 800 with. Different tools for different uses. And the grendels are all but retired for my use.
That’s the goal of my channel…. Just here to gather the data and share with my audience so the viewer can make this own more educated decision. Appreciate you taking the time to watch!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica BTW I've been getting 2465 fps out of my 18" Grendel with 130gr TGK's (Max charge hand loads) Decent accuracy too, but I can only go out to 400 yards at my longest shooting range.
@@pogeegitz If your COL is pushed out to 2.275", you can still get that speed with certain powders and still not go over 50ksi, throat depending. Won't work with some mags though.
There is a big difference in punching paper and trying to achieve velocities needed for hunting bullets to expand reliably. With proper marksmanship you may hit your target, but you still need the velocities to knock it down ethically. Thanks for the video!
Man, I just built a 6.5CM earlier this year with a 22” barrel. I love it, but if I’d seen this first, I probably would have built with a shorter barrel and saved a little weight.
My practical guns have 20 inch barrels. My static target rifles ( f-class, bench rest and such have longer ones) I'm seriously considering a semi-auto 16 inch hunting rig in the near future.
ive been questioning my ar10 precision and accuracy. this video made me realize 100 yard groups dont necessarily mean poor performance at range. both weapons were just over 1 moa, but made consistent hits at over 1k yards. very nice.
Even tuning handloads and trying loads that have shot 0.5-0.75 moa consistently in my bolt action Tikka. Those loads in my LMT 6.5 on average are just a 1.0-1.25 moa.
Your videos never fail. It’s made me want to push my limits with my AR 10. Still saving up my money to finish my Bergara BMP. Hopefully by then I’ve gotten better at distance.
I think you’re on point. I have a 22 inch 6.5C and have no objections to shorter barrels - you’ve proven it works. I think the difference at range is terminal velocity and ft lbs on target. That said, I personally wouldn’t be comfortable shooting at game at the long ranges that you’re demonstrating so 16 inch gets my vote. Nice job.
6.5cm is just such a good round. It's got no issue going that distance out of a shorter barrel. I would argue that the longer barrels that yield quite a bit more velocity are better, due to your wind holds. It battles the wind better which gives you a higher hit percentage on target. Love my 6.5cm. Mine is out of a tikka bolt gun though, not a gas gun. Great shooting!
Great video! I recently got a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel back from being cut down to 16". I haven't had the chance to chrono it yet. For its intended use of short-range hunting and target shooting, it should work great.
Just found your channel and really appreciate your style and content. If I’m thinking from the hunting perspective (not the point of this video - but that’s my main interest) I’d probably go with the longer barrel in almost any caliber for better terminal velocity and ballistics. But your point is very well made and convincing and has me questioning if the differences are as important as I’ve always thought. Great stuff!
Great video and great comparison! You got "Tremor'd" at 17:09 by accidentally holding a MIL low. That's why those reticles can be a challenge especially under stress.
I bought a pre-owned Ruger American bolt-action from a pawn shop in 6.5 CM n chopped it down to 16.5".... shooting my 140gr handload ammo at 2350 fps it will shoot 1.25" groups at 100yds and still ring steel silhouette at 600yds.... very compact, light, and easily capable of taking deer with enough energy at 300 yds
Yep if you’re shooting nrl hunter 16” has zero chance of making power factor. You’ll need as much velocity out a 6.5cm to get there. This is a great point I wish I would’ve thought to include in my summary.
@LRRPFco52 they will probably do better than 6.5 as the power they use is faster burning, and they shoot heavy bullets. But honestly, go carbon fiber over shorter barrel. Everyone I've ever seen try to go shorter than 20 inches seems to get in trouble with the power factor unless the round is somewhat overkill. There is a way to get around all this which is with factor loaded ammo weighing 140grs are more but I'm not rich enough to afford to shoot 3 dollars a round all year.
Amazing shooting and Great content! I have a 20 inch LMT 6.5 Creedmoor that I need to start pushing out further! And I've been very tempted by the SR25 Cartel Uppers and Barrels! Glad to see them performing for you.
I don't think it matters so much that you can reach out and "touch" targets at long distance, but rather how you strike it with sufficiently high "lethal" energies.
I have 22" .260 Rem GAP LR-260 24" Grendel 18" Grendel 18" Grendel 17.6" Grendel 14.5" Grendel 12" Grendel 10.5" Grendel 8.5" Grendel I shoot the 12" Grendel the most, but usually bring the 17.6" Lilja and 18" LaRue along too. I haven't shot my .260 Rem or 24" Grendel since 2015. I shoot all the time.
@@DavidBaumgarner I'm in the Mountain West region like you see in this video, but in Utah. 4400-4800ft elevation in the valleys, 6300+ at my preferred range complex. I shoot year-round, boiling summer through sub-freezing mountain winter. My go-to for recreational LR and my DM Courses is the 12" Grendel. Too easy to pack in a tiny soft case, pull it out and start hitting steel at 780yds with a 1-6x24 LPVO. I've 1st-round connected with it at 900yds on 2 MOA plate, which was crazy. I'm more excited about working with the 8.5" Grendel over the coming years. I'm just looking for the right optics for it. I shoot the 12" suppressed exclusively with a tiny TBAC Ultra 5. I've been shooting 6.5 Grendel since 2009. Started shooting LR formally in 1995 in my 1st Recon Platoon, so I've been in the LR game for a long time.
Great video! I got into 6.5 Grendel 15 years ago and went with a 20” heavy barrel because I wanted more velocity at distance. I haven’t shot much the last few years and on a whim got a 18” upper with a lighter profile barrel because I would like to have a lighter rifle. Now I am saving for a scope for that upper to test it out and compare the two. Grendel got superseded by the newer Creedmoor but this test is similar to what I what I expect. Slightly different wind calls but not enough to justify the heavy 20” barrel.
Enjoyed the video. Never used Barnes bullets, must try them. I'm from Ireland. Here in Europe we shoot with shoot with shorter barrels as most shooters use moderators. I recently changed my old STEYR pro-Hunter 6.5X55 Swedish 22" barrel to a Tikka T3x varmint in 6.5x55 Swedish. I was nervous about the shorter barrel. I'm getting way better performance from the Tikka 20" barrel. It takes hotter loads than my old STEYR. Shoot 130g SMK with 59g N560, it stays supersonic to 1200 metres. That's a lot better than my 29" Bergara B-14 HMR 308. I'd live to see some of you gentlemen in the States, test the grandfather of 6.5 and put the 6.5X55 Swedish against the 6.5 creedmoor in a similar test you did here.
I just built an Areo M5 for my class. It was sent to me with an 18-inch .308 barrel and I switched it out for a 22-inch 6.5 Creedmoor. I plan to use it for targets and maybe whitetails. I think this is a great choice for this platform. The new barrel is the BA premium series I got brand new for a little over 200 dollars.
Always look forward to your videos, can’t wait to see your video on POI shift on the AR platform. I just built an Aero Enhanced upper using a white oak armament barrel to avoid this issue.
Great content and enjoy your channel. Appreciate all you do. Bought a budget 20in 308 and an Arken scope. Going to try a little of this long range shooting. Thanks. .
I have 18" LMT 6.5 as well and with a suppressor it keeps it an acceptable weight and not unwieldly long with a suppressor, which is exactly why I bought it.
Loved this video. My friend has a bad barrel. I've been trying to convince him to cut it down to see if it will correct the problem before he buys a new one.
Being a distance shooter I’m with you on this. Within reason, barrel length is not much of an issue unless your looking for that “flat shooter” or exponential velocity relating to kinetic energy on target at distance. As far as shorter distances like 300 and below.. I don’t think there’s enough of a difference to make a difference, most certainly not on any animal you may be hunting.
I know it’s a bit of a pain, but I bet with a little bit of load development for each rifle. You could tighten up the groups a bit more but for a semi auto platform looks very solid given to totally different barrel lengths.
One reason I take time to dial is so I don't hold 2.2 instead of 3.2. Didn't help that is was supposed to be 3.6, but I had to rewind and look. Definitely held one at 2.2, haha! Great videos though and I liked the side by side. Glad your here in Idaho now! I'm planning on attending a match at Day Mountain Ranch in October, might see you around if you're in this area!
Enjoyed the high quality content, well done! In the opinion section I was also looking for recoil impulse, must not have been worth mentioning? Keep up the great work.
I will say, as a less experienced mid-long range shooter, in throated .308 with 190 grain matchkings, the difference between 20 inch barrel and 24 inch barrel is pretty significant for me. My bullets are much more predictable at 1000 yards out of the 24 inch rig than they are out of the 20"
My new 308 loves the Sierra Match bullets. Took out my 2 new rifles one in 308 AR and 6.5 CM bolt action. The 6.5 shot very well with them but as it heated up it let the last couple groups open up fairly wide. My 308 however help amazing groups with the Sierras even when it was quite hot. Honestly some of the best groups I've ever had.
Great job with the video. I personally like the 22” inch barrel, but I’m old school and my days of humping mountains are over. To old and fat and body parts that don’t work now. Great views
Alot of people don't know that switching back and fourth from lead core to solid copper without cleaning can on alot of guns change your zero and open up your groups..
I have a Ruger Gunsight Scout in 6.5 Creed with a 18.7 inch barrel. Wasn't going to shoot it. Because it's pretty rare. But I just might now. Interesting video.
2 things: 1) what bag riders are those? 2) need to get some suppressor covers on those cans. Mirage does nothing but hurt you in the scope off of a hot suppressor.
Both are clearly very capable beyond 1000 yards. One thing I have found with my 16" AR10 is that while very capable, they are not very well balanced when shooting in compromised positions compared to a 22".
Been watching your vids for a while and love the content, so this comes from a position of love. You pronounce "taupe" like "dope" with a T. So it's "tope". 😅
Because you want to argue that a 22” 6.5 isn’t a joke compared to a 300PRC in gel at a 1000? Anyone that hunts at a grand with a 6.5 has forfeited the right to argue energy. Do it if you want, but don’t preach to me about its effectiveness.
@@jrca1406 Not trying to be testy, but some really good shooters have successfully hunted elk past 1k with 6.5 SAUM, but they're top 1% shooters. I certainly wouldn't do it with 6.5CM. 600yds is a challenge even for experienced LR shooters with 6.5CM. Most people should stay within 300 regardless of what they're shooting, and 300yd shots need trajectory compensation.
I think for shooting steel that's not a issue but shooting at Game at distance in my opinion that 200fsp makes a big difference. Good shooting and super nice rigs.
When distances are known, you can still get hits regardless of velocity. When distances are unknown, your acceptable error in range E is greater with higher velocity. It depends on the type of shooting you’re doing and the support equipment you have. Almost 32 fps per inch of barrel is significant though. Still amazing what you can get done with a 16” pipe.
I think 6.5 creedmoor out of a short barrel makes sense, but I think it has a lot to do with placing a focus on the handling characteristics of the rifle itself rather than purely the external ballistic properties of the round itself.
Completely unrelated, but have you ever considered doing paid readings? Ebooks, ads, etc. You never stutter. Almost TOO well spoken, like AI. lol! Great idea for a video. Beautiful rigs. What about short barrel 6.5 vs longer barrel 308? 🤔
@@jjdidnottiebuckle4791high end rifle, high end glass, tight zero, quality ammo, ballistics calculator. When you stack the deck and follow the math you should be on target. But yes he's an excellent shot lol dude can shoot
Great video. From a hunting perspective the 16 inch makes a lot of sense. Especially back east for whitetail. A 500 yard shot is rare and even 350 isn't common. The 16 would be much easier and faster to engage.
If you're just worried about hitting the target the barel length seems to matter less. I'd love to see some gel tests at 300-600 yards. I would guess bullet selection is just as important as barrel length
Can you comment or even better, show what the brass looks like out of the 16". Extractor abusing the case rim? Ejector swipes? Gas system length would be an easy to include data point. Great content! Keep it up!
I watch a lot of YT and saw somwhere a creator talking about SF using shorter barrels like 14.5 6.5CM because the trade off wasn’t that significant for the range and helped the DMR blend in.
