6.5 Grendel vs 243 Winchester 

Agreed. Great for coyotes, deer and antelope. My wife and all my kids use it as they develop and move up to bigger rounds.

Under rated for sure!

I've used a lot of cartridges in my hunting career. One of my favorite chamberings have been a 6mm-06 AI. Basically just a faster 243. 243win is a 100gr @ 2950 fps to 3000fps and the 6mm-06AI is 100gr @ 3250-3300 fps. Supurb deer and antelope round. Very accurate & you can get some laser beams out of the 75-80Gr mono bullets @ 3500 fps

Agreed, I use the nearly identical 6mm Remington. Perfect cartridge for Texas whitetails.

Some European urban snipers, SWAT equivalent types, say that, because most urban sniping situations are 75 meters or less, the 243win is the perfect weapon. Extremely fast, energetic, flat shooting, the cartridge provides everything that they require. I can say with certainty that an 85 gr soft point poked a hole clean through 1/2” AR-550 steel at 35 meters.

I can attest to the performance in Indiana. I run a 105gr MKZ in a 24" upper at 2800 fps at the muzzel.. It's a tack driver. Farthest whitetail so far has been a 185 lb 8pt that was quartering heavy away. Clean pass through with well over 24" of penetration. Good blood trail. He went about 60 yds. Farthest kill was 700 yds on a prairie dog.

But Memorial Day is tomorrow???

@@danielcurtis1434 "this" meaning "this upcoming Memorial Day"...I'm assuming.

I love my grendel. I use a 123 SST for SE white tail and a 129 SST for hogs in FL. Personal preference on your bullet and barrel of your grendel. I sold my .243 “AR10” but kept my 6.5x39 “AR15”. I even used Winchester XP solid copper impacts in my .243 and it didn’t do any better than my grendel and my grendel isn’t as heavy romping around the marshes and SE forest area.

Hey Stephen - what distance were you at? We use .243 out several 100 yards here in Texas.

You really shouldn’t be shooting youth hunters

@@treytharpe9917Yukyukyuk!

I've never been able to get a youth hunter tag.

Steve 100% agree with you. It is mil-spec round for many EU countries and wolf ammo was very reasonable to buy in 500rd cases around 3yrs ago. Now it has doubled in price for the same 500rd case. Also all of the other options are very expensive. Hornady, Federal, etc. all have a good selection of rounds they are just too expensive IMO. My goal is to end up reloading them myself in bulk.

I agree. I think that the Grendel is, unfortunately, unpopular simply because that it is so small that people think "how could that tiny cartridge be effective?" The fact is it is very efficient, effective, and flat shooting.

in terms of muzzle energy 243 win (1950fpe) is in between 6.5 grendel (1573fpe) and 308 win (2700fpe). For deer inside of 300 yards, 6.5 grendel and 243 win are both extremely viable options, so I think its fair to compare. A hunter may face having to pick between the two, amongst the many other cartridges that are low recoiling and feasible for deer

@@jackmemphis777 Fair point. The better question is probably "What can a 243 do that a 6.5 Grendel can't?" The answer is: Inside 300 yards, not much, beyond 300 yds, quite a bit.

@@nospam3409 true the 243 has a slight advantage at longer range. Got this from a forum I was reading: Give the 243win a high BC bullet, say, the 108 ELD-M, which will run a .536G1 and leave the station about 2950 without breaking a sweat - at 500yrds, it's sitting on 1100 ft.lbs. Kinetic Energy, to the 123 SST Grendel's 889 ft.lbs

​​@@jackmemphis777sst is a poor choice of grendel. Cavity back 118 grn. It opens to a 70 caliber mushroom and has 2550fps from a 18in barrel. Or federal fusion 120 grn. Both are terminally much more effective.

I can also testify to the effectiveness of the 123 sst on mule deer. I watch my wife anchor a 4x4 buck with a shoulder shot with complete pass through and devastated vitals. Impact velocity would have been 2350 fps from her 6.5 CM that she shot 300 yards across an south dakota open prairie ravine. We certainly know how effective the 123 SST bullet is at moderate impact velocities. I know in this video you referenced the 129 grain bullet from a 6.5 Grendel. I've been shooting that 129 accubond LR from an 18 inch AR rifle at a muzzle velocity of 2405 fps, and it has retained 1857 fps at 400 yards and hits with 989 fpe. I haven't had a chance to hunt with that bullet yet, but i think that might be an even more effective large-deer combo given the lightly bonded construction. I can't speak to the ballistics of 6mm/243 loads since i dont' have any of those, but i did want to make sure to note that the 6.5 Grendel ballistics that you quote in this video are only one-half of my field-measured results with the 6.5 Grendel cartridge.

2580 from a 24" barrel straight from Hornady's website.

35 rem is my favorite for deer also. Except here we have a lot of brush so I use 200 grain power points. It plows through the brush without much if any deflection.

@@northwoodsdad7506 LOL, Sorry, I meant 200 grain. 100 grain is for the .243

I looked at Nosler Ammunition, and no where does the 6.5 Grendel have more energy than the 308, regardless of hunting ammunition type. The only 6.5 Grendel ammo that exceeds 308 past 500 yards is 129gr Accubond long range and comparing it to 110 gr Varmageddon 308 rounds!

@@dundonrl a Hornady 123 gr sst has 1804 fps, 889 ftlbs, and a 50.9” drop at 500 yds. A 308 125 gr sst has 1437 fps, 573 ftlbs, and a 63.2” drop at 500 yds. A 308 150 gr sst has 1826 fps, 1,110 ftlbs, and drops 46.9” at 500 yds. It takes more powder, a heavier bullet, a larger casing, and more recoil to beat it.

@Coyote112 12 I notice you used a Custom Lite load that the Grendel barely beat. A fair comparison is the 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308, not a 6.5 Grendel because it's just too slow!

The 308 with the proper bullet and load is light years beyond anything the Grendel can produce. I hunt hogs with both calibers and the penetration and damage caused by the 308 is much greater than the Grendel. I like the Grendel but a 308 it is not my friend.

I definitely agree that a bolt grendel, like my howa 1500 mini action with a Sporter contour 22" barrel, is a very fine example as to what a grendel really is capable of. The standard 16-18" barrels in most AR-15s due handicap it to a notable degree.

​@@bryantitus6634 just my .02¢. The big advantage a bolt Green has over an AR Gren is the operating system. The AR looses too much velocity for a good comparison. Both calibers are way under rated IMO. Ammo selection and shot placement is going to be the deciding factor between these two.

@@GB-zi6qr I agree, but at the same time, the grendel can't be pushed too much above what factory ammo brings even in the bolt gun. Due to the small case capacity being pretty much perfectly balanced to achieve given velocities, even relatively small bumps in powder can spike pressures faster than more typical 308 or 30-06 based cases would. Sure, you can gain some velocity above factory loads intended not to surpass the ar-15's 55k psi upper limit and run up towards the 60-62k psi most modern loading run but you likely won't gain a tremendous amount as you probably would only be adding less than a full grain of additional powder.

@@bryantitus6634 I completely agree and I think we're saying the same thing from different angles of approach. My thinking is the .243 is not a popular chambering for the AR-10. Therefore a comparison of the 2 would have to be in a bolt gun platform. Personally, the comparison would be moot due to case capacity differences. Both calibers have advantages and which one is better is all opinion.

@@GB-zi6qrthe 243 loses a lot going to shorter barrels. Barrels less than 20" place it below the 6.5 grendel in muzzle energy with the same barrel length. And they have a lot of muzzle blast at that length.

It's all fubar, by design. 6.5 CM comes close to 243 case cap, but is a whole different animal with sleek, long, larger and heavier projectiles. Maybe 243/6 CM? The whole debate stinks.

Taking actual real world performance from a 243 and a 6.5 grendel out of typical 20" or 22" bolt actions will show that the 6.5 grendel is really not very far off from a .243 at all. The 6.5 grendel case is more efficient and uses less powder to reach similar energy levels in typical barrel lengths. In an AR platform with shorter barrels, the 6.5 gives up enough to make a separation from most .243s. that being said, a shorter barreled .243, like what would be the norm in a AR10, would fall behind a 6.5 grendel in function. The .243 suffers in short barrels where a grendel loses very little by comparison. A 6lb AR-15 is far handier than a 8lb ar-10 and they would perform in the real world tremendously similarly.

Thank you Frank.

What do you mean hornady abandoned grendel shooters? Did they stop making grendel cartidges?

@@Daniel-wk5ibno

The bolt is the limiting factor. Due to the larger case head diameter it results in less steel thickness in the locking lugs on the bolt(AR) hence the 52,000 chamber pressure rating. Bolt actions can load hotter.

The 6mm Rem had a 10 twist but 243s have had 8 and 9 twist. I've been shooting 243s since 1980 and never had an issue trying to stabilize bullets.

@@crashdsnowman1 probably not with 8. My 243 rifle has 9 and won’t stabilize anything longer that 100 grains

Arrows slice but also make blood pressures drop to zero if you pop the heart

edit that 30-06 is 504.

What is the SD 1 millisecond after hit hits something? Are you using solid steel projectiles that never deform because that is the only way SD would matter.

That's what SHE said! 😂 (I just couldn't stop myself. Sorry).

@@Duke_of_Prunes 🤣🤣🤣

What’s the hurry? I can listen to Ron all day

​@@Duke_of_Prunes got me to chuckle

The 6.5 Grendel actually has better sectional density. With commonly available options the 243 tops out in the .24 sectional density range while the 6.5 Grendel is in the .25-.26 range in sectional density with commonly available 123-129 gr projectiles

Glad you picked you bow back up and continued on..because you can believe this..no matter how good you are and a person can go for years without having a sub-par or bad shot..it can an will happen at some point..there are times that things happen beyond your control an other times when freak or unforseen things happen..you just do your best always and make the best happen an don't beat yourself up when it happens and you've done all you could do. It will and you will get better.

I'm running around with a 24" AR in 6.5 Grendel. 123gr SST factory ammo runs 2600fps for me. 105gr monolithic handle ads run +2800 fps.

@@nospam3409 nice speeds. Am I off and are there a ton of people running those long barrels.

@@nikos6220 Not necessarily. The Grendel needs the barrel length to get the velocity. At 20" they are basically identical. Over 20" the Grendel pulls away. Under 18", the 6.8 SPC does better because it doesn't give up as much velocity as the barrel gets shorter. Problem is that there aren't many factory loads for 6.8 spc. As to your question, not many people do their research to know this so they end up buying a Grendel with 16" or 18" barrel. I wanted something I could enjoy shooting at 500yds and I think the comblock Russian case of the Grendel has more accuracy potential.

@@nospam3409 interesting. The Barnes numbers I ref in the comment are both for 24‘. For hunting outside of 300 yards the 243 makes more sense, as it still has speeds that ensure proper expansion. The 120 TTSX out of the Grendel has only 1800 ft/s at 400, way below expansion threshold for the Barnes.

@@nikos6220 Absolutely. The 243 Win is using 50% more powder than a grendel. It should absolutely have noticably more reach. I wouldn't recommend using a barnes at below 2000fps for an impact velocity. I prefer Maker or Cavity Back because they expand down to 1500 fps or lower. I don't recall what I'm getting at 400 yds for velocity, but I've shot the 105 MKZ (BC=.490) into milk jugs at that distance. Dented the back of the 4th jug pretty hard with decent expansion. Not the best test, but I'd say that's pretty close to the max limit of my setup. I did take a prairie dog at 700 yds with it (very accurate load, under 1/2 moa feeding from a mag), but I have no idea if there was any expansion. Lol

@gsh341 Actually, it's not quite that easy. It's true, the 6.5 Grendel has a higher BC and similar energy numbers, but there's more to the ballistics that determines terminal performance. At a velocity of 1,900 fps, that is the bare minimum of what is needed to reliably expand a vast array of bullets, whether lead or copper, and I would personally prefer to see a minimum of 2,000 fps. But it's not just the energy it's delivering at long range, it's the amount of velocity it has at those longer ranges that determines whether a bullet will reliably expand. Which is why bullet/ammo manufacturers state a minimum velocity number for proper expansion. As far as the data you shared, I'll trust that the numbers you listed are correct, but at only 425yds the 6.5 Grendel slows down to the 1,900 fps minimum requirement for reliable expansion, whereas .243 Win doesn't slow down and hit that mark until 575yds. That's an additional 150yds of additional effective range where .243 is above the 1,900 fps minimum. Also, .243 is capable of retaining 2,000+ fps at 500yds as well. Additionally, the higher velocity of .243 will also aid deeper penetration, which at longer distances becomes even more important to drive deeper into the vitals for proper terminal performance. This is the case, regardless of the round being used. Additionally, .243 Win is much flatter shooting than 6.5 Grendel, and has very comparable wind drift numbers, plus or minus depending on which bullet/load you're comparing. Which are added benefits for overall accuracy when shooting long range. Overall, the energy numbers might be similar, but in regards to longer range shooting, I'll take the extra velocity of .243 for deeper penetration and to help assure that the bullet fully expands at those distances. I'd also prefer a 100gr bullet for .243 to achieve a higher sectional density too (typically an SD of .242). With all that said, I am in NO WAY implying 6.5 Grendel is "bad" cartridge at all. Every cartridge has its place and its own set of capabilities. But for the reasons I mentioned, I would personally choose .243 Win over 6.5 Grendel for shooting up to that 575 yard limit for proper bullet expansion and penetration. To each their own of course.

@@Plumcraziness Most 243 rifles can't shoot bullets over 90 grain accurately due to the rifling twist not being fast enough. So most 243 rounds are 85 to 90 grain. That reduces SD and penetration.

@@gsh341 Not true. There are plenty of 100gr bullets that are meant to be shot with, and are fully stabilized with the .243 Winchester's standard 1:10" twist rate. I can't think of one that can't be, unless you're talking about copper bullets, which is a different thing entirely. Besides, there are factory rifles being sold with faster twist rates, like the current Remington 700 with a 1:8" twist barrel, and the Ruger American with a 1:9" twist barrel, which will also stabilize even larger grain sizes that also have even higher BCs and sectional densities.

@@Plumcraziness The most common twist rate for the 243 has been the 1/10" twist (like mine) and with most bullets once you hit 95 grains you are marginally stable or not stable at all depending on the bullet. The problem is exacerbated by the fact the heavier bullets will be moving slower and slower bullets aren't as easily stabilized. Increase that twist to 1/9" and you get a bit better, but faster twist is better. That's why most 6mm Creedmoor rifles are 1/8" or faster. Like I said, I have a 243 with a 1/10" twist and it shoots 85gr just fine, but no bullet I've tried over 90 grains has shot for crap and the ones over 100 grains all show signs of instability. By comparison, the 6.5 Grendel was designed to shoot 123 gr bullets. that means the 123gr bullets are always stable from a 6.5 Grendel. The extra mass does mean a slower bullet, but it also means deep penetration due to increased momentum.

​@@gsh341 My apology for such a long reply. I'm sorry to hear you seem to be having issues with stabilizing 90+ grain bullets in your .243, but this seems to be more of an issue with your particular rifle and your own personal experience with it. Not being able to stabilize 90+ grain bullets is not an issue that I have ever heard of before, other than your own comment. The fact is, 90+ grain bullets are some of the most common size of bullet used in .243 for deer (or larger game), and people do not have an issue shooting them at all. It's also why .243 Winchester's popularity soared over .244 Remington during the mid to late 50s, because the .243 was able to stabilize 100gr bullets. At the time, .244 Rem had a slow 1:12" twist barrel, which limited it to 90gr. For instance, 95gr and 100gr Nosler Partition is a legendary performer for whitetail and larger game with people shooting them with a stock 1:10" barrel. Certainly if people were having issues stabilizing them they would not use them. Nor any other 90+ grain bullet from any other manufacturer for that matter, yet ammo companies continue to sell hoards of them year after year. The thing is, 90+ grain bullets for .243 have been sold for decades, and if stability really was an issue, that size of bullet never would have sold so well for that long, nor would anyone want to buy them. I would say to try not to blame an entire caliber because you are having less than stellar results with your own rifle shooting 90+ grain bullets. Again, this does not seem to be an issue for other people. Your comment is the first time I have ever heard of someone having an issue stabilizing 90+ grain bullets in a standard 1:10" twist barrel. Unless they have a burned out barrel, which I assume that is not the case. As for the 6.5 Grendel, yes, it shoots a larger 123gr bullet, but also with much lower velocity right across the board compared to .243 Win. The heavier bullet of the Grendel is the only reason why they both basically have the same energy numbers at 500 yds. However, the difference is that .243 is at 2,069 fps (90gr ELD-X) at 500yds, but 6.5 Grendel is only at 1,796 fps (123gr SST) at the same distance. Not only is that a 273 fps difference, which is significant, that's also below the 1,900 fps threshold for good expansion that you, yourself, stated. As far as energy numbers are concerned, the thing is, energy numbers are only a description of power at the very moment of impact. It does not describe how deep a bullet is going to impact. However, what determines deep penetration even more is how much velocity it's still carrying at the moment of impact to help drive it deeper. Again, that's why bullet manufacturers also list velocity numbers for proper expansion and terminal performance. They know that velocity counts. The issue is that, despite the 6.5 Grendel's heavier bullet, higher BC and slightly higher sectional density, there comes a point when those things cannot overcome the higher velocity of another cartridge. Its much slower velocity across the board just isn't enough to outperform the .243 Win's terminal performance at long range as you have implied. There is too much of a velocity discrepancy to overcome. Most importantly though, bullet manufacturers assure their bullets fully expand around that 1,900-2,000 fps minimum mark, but at 500yds, the 6.5 Grendel shooting the 123gr SST bullet you mentioned is below that threshold. For me, there is no reason to risk substandard expansion when shooting at an animal. Particularly at long range where there is no room for error, and where these criteria become even more critical. If a bullet cannot reach that fps minimum at a certain range, it cannot be relied upon for reliable terminal performance. To shoot any animal below the threshold of reliable expansion is unethical IMO. Regardless of if it's .223 Rem or .416 Dakota. I will always choose the round that is at or above the minimum for reliable expansion, and I will always take the extra velocity as an added advantage to help drive it deeper. Just to clarify my point though: by your initial post, you were implying that .243 Winchester doesn't have as good of performance as 6.5 Grendel at long range, and this just isn't the case. My intention is to help you see that .243 Win is not what you think it is. Again, I don't say these things to disparage 6.5 Grendel at all. Every cartridge is great within their limitations. Cheers and good will.

Wilson combat makes an ar10 in 243 win

@@jacobmullins3644 so does a lot of other guys. but you might as well do 7mm08 if you want to tote a ar 10. I use the AR15 like you would use a 30-30 for fast shots in shorter range areas. if I have a 250 yard or more shot I bring a bigger cartridge. personally I don't think the Grendel is a long range cartridge for deer. I am from the two holes are better than one. because we are in thick southern wood's. and if you shoot one down a fire break and don't have good blood you have a good chance at never finding it. its really hard to find exactly where he was standing if its covered in pine straw and they don't bleed . Id say only 50% of the deer I shoot with my Grendel have exit holes past 150yards.

@@southerntriplej8061 the problem with the different AR-10 platforms is that they aren’t nearly as standardized as the AR15 platform. Every different manufacturer has their own tweaks and whistles that tend to be proprietary-and expensive. But that makes them less easy to swap parts on between manufacturers. For those sized cartridges, bolt guns can be built for much cheaper with excellent quality actions and barrels and chassis.

@@dr.froghopper6711 I agree. and they are heavy. I like the new Ruger sfar but I don't have a need for a 308,. I own 3 - 7mm08s and 2-243s and a 30-06. the next rifle Im going to buy will be the 6.5-300 wby mag just for hunting a cattle ranch I will be hunting. and Ive got a slew of AR 15 s

I have a smokeless muzzleloader that shoots a 300gr 45cal SST at 2450 fps. It does more damage to the vitals than anything else I've ever seen. I hunted with it exclusively for 15 years. In Indiana, we cant shoot as many deer as you can,I but i took over 30 deer with it. 've been hunting with a grendel for the past 4 seasons and I've taken 7 deer so far with it. So far, everything has died just as quickly as they do with my ML.

Tell me you're a Fudd without telling me you're a Fudd.