I like the start too. Also with one a-move he'd have won, I think at any time. Also I left with wife for quickie (ie opened beers for us) so didn't watch until "you suck" came on.
this is my game!!! Just a side note, at 8:55 in the game i didn't fight there because my storm didn't finished, and it was about to finish, so i waited a bit because the next fight would've been better (although it wasnt better)
Honestly, you just need to tone down the fast expands beyond the 3rd and take that greedy lead into some earlier trades, or tech up faster into some other units. You've got the fundamentals down, but that's only 1 piece of the puzzle. Engaging your opponent (harass, fights, map control) is a whole other ball game, but it's what it all ultimately boils down to. You're on the right path, so keep at it my guy. P.S: While the build order is neat, I wouldn't recommend it for every game. For obvious reasons. Good luck!
Some1 teach him that 100 men with a sword can't beat 1 guy with a machine gun if you just send them into line of fire even if you upgrade their kitchen knife to RoB from Elden Ring.
I feel like this is a build that always wins when your opponent leaves you alone for 8 minutes and always loses if they decide to kill you before then. He lost a game at 9 minutes and that isn't normal for him lol. I feel that pain when I die on 2 bases to a one base all in at like 7 minutes.
I (Greyhaven on the ladder) faced the MacroMan a few days ago! He cannon rushed me (a zerg) and I checked his match history only to find that 9/10 of his games were cannon rushes. He challenged me to an actual macro game in a custom 1v1 that ended up being a fairly good game. I won in the end but it wasn't an easy challenge at all. He was a good sport in the end. If you're reading this MacroMan, GG :)
Macroman has some commitment issues: Runs his forces on top of the lurkers, than instead of using the health they still have to kill some of them, runs away from them, taking damage both the way in and out, letting all his stuff die. Lurkers are also terribly immobile; Perhaps go around them rather than trying to go through them.
Macroman's build (if optimised) would be the type of build that when played by a pro in a tournament would have the commentators saying "this only works in a best of five. if you do this on the ladder it will lose to any early aggression"
@@hivetech4903 I'm talking about the quick 3 base not the full 6 bases. I could see it working where a toss knows that their opponent has been playing greedy and just fully commits to out greeding the greed. I'm also assuming that Macroman plays this against T and P as well where i think it is a bit safer.
@@gyulajakab5852 Nope. I can tell you in top Masters against literally any race as soon as the Forge is scouted the game is only ending one way lol, to say nothing of pro level. I guess the build could be optimized to change that part but then its not really his build. The same goes for a 3rd at 2mins 40, that's positively gg regardless of how you do it.
Nah, you gave him too big of a pass on his macro. He stayed on 3 bases for too long for a greedy macro build and then jumped from 3->6 before even getting his 4th saturated. His opponent never got above 160 supply, but MacroMan was never able to capitalize on the fact that he was greedy and got away with it because he dropped all his resources into bases he couldn't fully utilize yet. Also, you only need 4 bases to utilize 88 workers, you need a 5th to replace your main, but you can be max out by then. There's no point going a greedy macro build if your max out time is on par with conservative/cautious macro builds. The number of bases isn't the issue, it's how they got there. I've seen Reynor get 7+ bases in 9-11 minutes, but he's also timing each expansion appropriately and has maxed out supply. His opponent was at ~5-6 bases and maxed out too, so it's not a race issue. A Diamond player should be able to max out at 9 minutes even when playing fairly cautiously. ViBElol's B2GM series does this for all 3 races - it got me from G3 to D3 in 3 months of casual playing on the weekend. Actually it's supposed to be
"He did literally everything better except for fighting." - And taking map control. I feel like MacroMan plays a lot like Shakespeare's Hamlet would play: At first cleverly crafting a position that's really advantageous, he manages to ruin it by hesitating whenever he has to be proactive or make a decision. Has a good, innovative plan in mind, executes it really well, but then freezes up as soon as he has to do anything with it beyond the scope of his plan. I feel a lot of kinship with him myself, actually.
Rule #1 of sc/sc2 - be aggressive, pressure your opponent If you're not doing that you better have a good reason and be decisive with the plan and improvisation. It feels to me that macroman when he's playing his game he plays his game a lot better than the other guy. But he's actually not as good when thrown off his game. Wasn't planning on 4 lurkers and a hydra timing showing up. But 6 base vs 2.5-3 base all-in, and nothing to deal with the lurkers... I feel bad for him but at the same time it's like the unit composition and decision-making just wasn't there. Excellent macro but macroing the wrong stuff.
The worst / best part of it all was that... *the game wasn't **_REALLY_** over...* ... Technically MacroMan still had a shot, by delaying the Zerg onslaught for a couple more warp-ins... :P Just... Premature and incalculated insta-leave reaction... :P .
harstem. you should do episodes of Is It IMBA Or Do I Suck with multiple imba requests. I'm just urging for more!! Honestly my favorite series on youtube right now. Maybe jetlag is better but thats it.
This felt kinda nice. Seeing an episode were just one large mistake was made is kinda beautiful in a way and even though I don’t know anything about StarCraft, it’s cool to see someone get praised for their playstyle and build order.
MacroMan needed just 2 disruptors, and he had more than enough time for that the moment he saw lurkers morphing, but he was busy taking 3 more bases while losing his 6th.
I see no point in upgrading with a small army, either. The more units you have, the more each upgrade is worth. I'd rather work on beefing up the army size first. @@xitaris5981
This is how PvZ against lurkers is in Diamond. That composition kills everything unless you micro exceptionally well or just well and already have a dozen of disruptors. Fighting lurkers as a P is just too hard on low levels and using them is too easy. You have to micro your observer (that is getting sniped by hydras), try to spread your units not to get them in a line, move units around so that the proper ones are in the front, flank if possible, manage disruptors if you have any, storm hydras... all the while Zerg is leisurely shift-clicking your mineral lines by lone lurkers or a dozen links absolutely destroying you and not even trying too hard.
I hate cheese but against zerg as protoss I'm forced to do it being low level, I know that from midgame onwards the zerg become indomitable if not micro in an excellent way
I'm a D2 Zerg in NA and I've noticed that Toss just really struggle against lurkers. Usually if I can get out 8 or more lurkers, they just fall apart - have no idea how to engage (not that I know either, but I'm assuming there is a strategy).
multiple strategies from what i am aware of - as protoss, you can absolutely just blow em up with disruptors for example another option is to not engage them directly, but force them to stay defensive by repeatedly putting pressure on their home base - if the lurkers are attacking a position you cant reasonably defend from them: attack a location the zerg cant afford to lose easily and wipe it out - lurkers take ages to kill buildings and of course - air units can be an option as well, if the opponent doesnt have enough anti-air with the lurkers (and even if they do, tempests can probably wipe out the lurkers from a distance with observers as spotters) similar approaches for terran and zerg - drop attacks for terrans and just defending locations with siege tanks and scans, and just outmaneuvering the lurkers and wiping out bases with roaches or lings for zerg
This is essentially the high-risk/high-reward greediest strategy build, but it's executed poorly. I actually play this in my D3 games often because I know players typically aren't good enough to punish it properly, but his expansion timings and max out times were sloppy. There's no point to this build, if you don't max out asap after saturating 4 bases because that's when your advantage is the biggest. Any delay and they can close the gap.
There is potential here. If he stopped at 4 bases and braced for impact, then expanded to 6 only after winning one fight this could be good. Pairing it with rapid upgrades means being down in army supply, but it also means a lot of players will misread army strengths and attack when they shouldn't. I've played sort of like this in the past, but I've never pushed it to 6 bases by 8 minutes because that is begging to die to any aggression at all at any time in the first 10 minutes.
Yo Harstem, as an Italian most of us i'd say laugh about the stereotypes, although they portray mostly southern italian pronounciations and ways of behaving. There's a lot of internal racism in italy still so you would be surprised how is more likely for an italian to mock another italian than an italian to be bothered by stereotypical jokes by others
8:12 - yeah he's getting spores because a forge in the wall 99.99999% of the time means skytoss below plat 1. forge first is usually to have cannons to defend while sit on your thumbs on two base waiting for voids and carriers. it's a mistake in PvZ, because zerg will take their 3rd and 4th base for free, and go straight for hydra-corruptor and roll you by 6 minutes. This terrible idea usually gets beaten out of tosses by plat 2, but sometimes you have to show them the error of their ways. If they don't learn from this mistake and balance whine instead...oh well, everyone likes free ladder points. 🤷♀
Ngl I accepted that I am too slow to deal with lurkers at Diamond 1 (or 2 sometimes) so I just build stalker zealot and turtle to a carrier lategame, my PvZ winrate is quite high since I simply gave up trying to counter lurkers with ground. Turns out carrier counters lurker preeeety nicely hahaha
early game stalker addiction + negative micro + not enough observers and not replacing them after scouting that you definitely need them = loss. I'm going to suggest the controversial thing: stop microing your units. It's actually hurting you. if you can fix the above things and get chargelots a lot earlier to keep up a steady wave of run-bys sooner, you should never be losing to zerg unless they bane bust you early. Your major problem stems from you having +2 and only having 2 adepts for 5 or 6 minutes and with the build as it is in the replay, it actively prevents you from applying any amount of pressure. You probably could have had enough chargelots and a prism to run him over in that time. super risky opening. I'd not be comfortable with it, but hey if it's not getting punished . . . can't really argue with the macro results. that part was excellent. Just a tad too tunnel visioned on the macro though. Good on you I guess for committing to the memey name though.
I'm italian I love making fun of Italians it's great I was laughing when you were doing it. If you can laugh at yourself you can't truly laugh. Great videos thanks
Honestly could probably just create an endless stream of stalkers and a-move them to enemy base and win with that much eco superiority, but there were no skirmishes in that whatsoever except when zerg attacked. From that standpoint zerg did better, because zerg played the "strategy" part of the RTS. SC2 is not a tycoon game. You need to harass the enemy bases and make them afraid to move out. Like zerg did with protoss here.
Sometimes you need to give up a base, in order to get better units and hopefully win the game. It's a tough lesson for Diamonds. People don't like to give up bases. 😂
His unit comp is the least atrocious part of his decision making. He would have been fine if he just put resources into units instead of bases he couldnt' utilize.
As an italian the stereotypes can be annoying sometimes but then i remember that there's many nationalities like say the dutch that get no media representation at all so it could be worse /jk
It would be nice if there is a possibility to see through a survey what the “comment grandmasters” (we the people that suck) think if it was imba or not
Is this the zerg version of getting beat up by Dark templars due to lack of detection? Except it is lurkers. I mean, sure he has detection, but it wasn’t utilized well enough.
For once I disagree with harstem just a tiny wee bit, He did psi storm the hydras alot, it was just too many happened to survived his storms and kept providing alot of dps even at 90-95% down, which was just pure luck against macroman in favor of adriantes micro. An interesting game regardless. I think he (macro man) should have made some colossi in this example, to stay on the cliffs above his 3rd base, to try and out range the hydras from the high ground behind that observer to the west, but he never made any. I think this could have gone differently if he had simply waited for 2-3 colossi to finish, they would have managed to finish atleast some of the low health hydras. Another unconventional solution to lurkers, is observer phoenix, since phoenixes can lift burrowed lurkers. We know this because the ai often does it. This is because burrowed lurkers have a special actor event in their units actor events called ''Instant Unbw Grav'' which causes lurkers to instantly morph against their will due to a behavior used by graviton beam back into surfaced lurkers when lifted by the phoenix. This means that even if the phoenix is instantly killed and the lurker is almost instantly dropped, the lurker will not be in its burrowed form, it will be in its surfaced form, requiring additional micro to reburrow it, if they the players even notice it. In this example, the reduction of dps from lifting even just one or 2 lurkers, combined with all inning the zealots, and a last hail marry psi storm or at least one colossi, would have given different results on that ramp. Another critical mistake macroman made without even knowing it was not moving far enough away from the enemy to prevent the ''call for help'' function, from constantly dragging and trickling his units back into the bad fight he had just left 3 times. The ''call for help'' function is a piece of data known as the ''acquire'' settings, of which there are about 10 or so in total, that uses a special range for units weapons combined with units settings to call other friendly nearby units for assistance when ever they either take damage or perform an attack them selves. Those lurkers went full ham not because macroman is bad but because just hitting one zealot with one barely in range lurker hit was dragging everything back in multiple times. This is just unfortunate luck for macroman, that the acquire radius was just a tiny bit too high for his micro in that one moment, causing units he'd attempted to retreat, to simply charge back in over and over. For those who may need to know, the 5 settings on units are: Behavior: Response (for workers this is set to flee, for everything else its set to acquire)[This is why workers will run away from the fight when not A moved, and are thus very inefficient] Combat: Default Acquire Level (Offensive, None, Defensive, and Passive all have different properties. Offensive being most common for units while shield batteries/medivacs use Defensive) Movement Acquire Leash Radius Movement: Acquire Leash Reset Radius Movement: Acquire Limit the 6 settings on weapons: Weapon: Acquire Call For Help Filters (set to all) Weapon: Acquire Cliff Level Range (plus 1, minus 1, very important to unit battles based on high ground against units on low ground) Weapon: Acquire Provoke Filers (set by default to all) Weapon: Acquire Scan Filters (set by default to everything) Weapon: Acquire Prioritization (Distance, Angle, and Distance from Target)[Most units use distance] Weapon: Acquire Target Sorts+ (mostly unused) These 11 pieces of data all worked together to destroy macroman.
Had been better off a-moving in some of those fights. His micro literally had a negative impact on the fight, not touching the units would have been better.
