I’m a Brit living in China for the past 6 years. I know the owner of SEKA (nice guy) and my local bike shop is a distributor. I’m not on commission (😂) and don’t own one but I do know that they’re manufactured in a factory that also produces frames for bikes in the pro peloton and he claims to the same standard. They are nice looking bikes!
Problem is how does one go about making a purchase? In August this year I contacted them directly. Initially they responded. However when I was at the point of making a purchase, they stopped responding to my emails. I have seen others in forums with the same complaint. Cam Nicholls earlier in the year reported purchasing issues with Seka. I ended up buying a bike from Chinese company called Yishun
I bought a Yoeleo R11 and built it with an electric 105. Using my existing wheels, the total cost is under $3,000. It might not be as great as a $17,000 top tier bike, but I am sure that it is top enough for most people.
It would be great to have you build and review an ICAN bike. Set it with up 105 mechanical, mid range wheels, common sense alloy parts, and see how it compares with the popular brands.
Seems like ICAN provide the best value, I like their design too. I would def go with a non branded frame unless I was building up a tri bike. I vote that you get the unbranded one, make up some JRB stickers and customize the styling of the frame. ICAN is a pretty sweet name, I wonder who said that would not look good on the down tube?
so at the recent bike show in shanghai. The major brands were empty. the CHinese brands were most busy. Big brands just pricing themselves out of the market. which is fantastic!!
$3300 for a Chinese made ti frame is not a bargain at all. In fact, some US boutique brands (eg, Turnerbikes) make a ti frame for $2400. But I see on Aliexpress that Chinese ti frames sell for about $700-$800 shipped.
Chinese have gone direct with almost everything and have killed most industries. Educated by the west and superb grafters with no shame to shaft their educators. I say good on them as they work hard and have a go. I lived there for 10 years and was back there last month and went from south to north for work. The cars are amazing. The roads are the best and the main cities are immaculate. Most of the bad suppliers in all industries have long gone and most of what comes out of there now is of a high quality…especially what is exported. Let’s not forget how big their own local market is.
Since cheap Chinese components and frames are available, my opinion hasn't really changed. I prefer to spend more to buy a well-known brand that's offering life time guarantee and full after buy care. The other thing is the sense of pride of owning and riding Trek, Cannondale, Look or other great brand❤, of course it comes with the price but I'm willing to pay it. No cheap Chinese bikes for me, please.
I own 3 cannondales. But only ones that say made in USA on the seat stay. You could give me a Lab 71 cannondale and I would sell it and purchase 5 made in USA cannondales
The UCI sticker doesn't mean anything when it comes to safety or QC. It just means the tubes fit in their designated outline. The Elves phallus has groundbreaking aerodynamics that has even puzzled Red Bull F1. Rectangular tubes 😂
One of the craziest things I've found in dealing with even the super cheap frame vendors is that the customer service is generally in different galaxy than name/western brands. I find that the Chinese usually reply in earnest very quickly and address issues really well if a problem arises. The customer service people always know what they are talking about, compared to dealing with western brands which can often be infuriating.
I've heard very good things about Winspace and Yeoleo. The Winspace T1550 is widely used by various crit teams here in the US and is apparently very well made, reliable and rides well. I've heard many questionable things about Elves and I would personally avoid. I have experience with ICAN which is OK but definitely cheaply made. One other Chinese brand worth mentioning is Farsports. Farsports only makes wheels (right now) but I think they are some of the best wheels you can buy. Farsports has introduced one frame recently and others are coming. Light Bicycle also makes great wheels.
I have 2 SEKA’s one EXCEED and one AFIELD. Both have over 10k km on the clock and they are flawless. I needed some spare parts reached out to SEKA and they shipped them from China to Korea to me. Just good service! I can recommend
@@sc705 The Afield was the first bike from SEKA on the market. They sell it as disc or rim brakes version. It is not an aero frame. But like the Exceed more endurance then race bike. I love both, but to be honest the Exceed is just an amazing frame. Very comfortable in seating position, it has a longer head tube. Very aero , you can configure the handle bar before you buy it and also choose the seat post if you want with or without set back. The quality is top notch. The BB they include is perfect even after 12k . I built my with Shimano 105 di2 and depending on the wheel set it weighs between 7.5 -8 kg. And I have the regular frame set , the RDC version is about 200g lighter. Honestly I am thinking to buy one more frame just as spare 😂
I have been riding a Winspace T1500 for just over a year now, no issues. Seka a re bad in communicating, seems impossible to buy. I had an Ican Gravel frame, great price, fast delivery, good quality and top notch customer service. Ex Winspace designers started their own frameset, the Tavelo Attack. Looks impressive at $1580. Yoeleo is a good company, What about Hygge?
Great video, David! Please test more "chinese" frames/bikes. 90 percent of the cykling community dont need ultra stiff frames anyway so why pay triplewise...❤
I bought a winspace frame a couple of years ago after having done a lot of research online and then a friend built it up with Ultegra for me. Outstanding bike so i bought a gravel frame from Yoeleo from china earlier in the year which again a friend built it up with sram for me. The quality from the Chinese brands is there and the cost saving is enough for me to purchase them.
I’m building a Ican triaero. I took in this challenge after buying a used Cannondale. I’ve only been riding for two months and love it. I wanted to buy a new racing road bike. But what wanted the prices around outrageous. So I found Ican. I’m almost done building my bike.
I tend to agree. As you rightly point out, all the expensive "Western" brands are made in China anyway. I already decided my next wheel set will be Winspace or Far Sports, e.g., and I can see me buying a direct-to-consumer Chinese frame too.
I bought a carbon HYPER wheel set and put them on my entry-level Trek Domane AL 2 recently. Much better than the existing Bontrager R1 in terms of speed and style.
It's interesting as most bicycle frames are made either in Taiwan or PRC. Quality is there and these brands are probably made from the same molds as their Western branded bicycles.
I have a Winspace SLC2.0. Very nice bike. I have it assembled with SRAM force and the Lun black edition rims. Not goin back to the expensive bike brands
this is true if companies keep charging 2k for an aluminum bike it took them $400 to make because all they did was make up some marketing wank about the welds and the tube butting that they did.
I recently scored a great deal on a Viathon R1 , honestly it's an amazing bike, It got alot of bad feedback cuz its original owner but the engineers involved in these frames WOW, 👌 5 STAR. ITS FAST, AGGRESSIVE BUT COMFORTABLE. NOWADAYS TO GET GOOD DEALS ALOT OF PEOPLE ARE MOVING TOWARDS CHINA OR TAIWANESE BIKES. THESE TOP BRAND ARE SELLING BIKES NOW FOR TRIPLE THE COST, ITS NOW LIKE PUTTING A DOWN PAYMENT ON A HOUSE 👀😂🤦♂️😭.
Hi David, thanks for the review on Chinese bike brands. It helps a lot of cyclist on a budget. Me myself having a Winspace Hyper wheels for 3 years now and it's really VFM. Had no complains for the performance and durablility. David, if you could be have the time, there's a new Chinese bike brand name HYGGE MODEL S. It would be great if you chould review this bike too. Has always. Thanks David Authur. Great work you have here.
I have an ICAN A9 TRIAERO uci approved l... Am not a professional cyclist or engineer but I can say they roll pretty well on pairs of Schwable pro tyres... They are abit heavy for their built but yeah they are affordable... You might aswell built an A22 Ican frame set as your project bike Dave and see it for urself
These days most bikes are Chinese/ Taiwanese anyway, it's just that the Far East brands have cottoned on to the huge markup that Western brands charge for frames/bikes made in the same factories!
China and Taiwan are not the same thing. Taiwan has some of the highest reputed manufacturers on the planet. Buying a Taiwanese frame should be viewed no different than one made in the US or EU. China....not so much.
@@FurySpyder Yes. For now at least. win-win for us. I'm mostly referring to the skill of the builders. Esp in the world of metal bikes. Some really awesome welders in Taiwan, esp on the Ti front.
@@cjohnson3836 I'm sure there are in China too! UK brands manufacture there and I bought a Ti frame in 2015 direct from Xi'an Titan Cycles in China (via AliExpress) and have never looked back. Super frameset and tens of thousands of miles on the clock so far! Beautifully welded too!
@@cjohnson3836 As a mainland Chinese, (not Taiwanese) I have to concede your point. There are some mixed brands in mainland China that tarnish China's reputation. But at the same time there are some really great brands like seka, farsports, windspace, etc. Hopefully these brands will change the perception of Chinese bikes.
Build one up as a project ,see our rides.I believe you could build a high quality bike that is similar in quality to a big brand but at a fraction of the cost.Trek specialised very expensive.
I bought an ICAN Gravel X frame last year, unfortunately I bought a frame that was a size too big, however I was so impressed with the build that I ordered another frame in a smaller size. A couple of weeks after ordering the second frame a box arrived with a pair of 40mm Aero road wheels, I contacted ICAN and they told me they were a gift to me, the frame arrived a week or so after. The gravel bike is now fitting me perfectly, I sold the old frame almost immediately it was stripped and the wheels are on my Trek Emonda.
The Ican is a gravel bike and the Emonda a lightweight road bike, quite different really. I can take the Ican pretty much anywhere, it appears well built, it has good paint and rides well without creaking. The only issue is toe overlap.
I absolutely hate Chinese state-owned giants acquiring European businesses with their endless amount of funding power but I think this time, the bike brands totally deserve if they lose the competition to the Chinese brands or get acquired by them. The price increase in the last 3 years was just insane.
Beating the world? I have no idea. But I have two Chinese road bikes, a Yoeleo R12 and an ICAN A10 (an aero rim brake frame that they recently stopped making). I'm really happy with both of them AND with the customer service I have received before and after the purchase. Things were apparently a bit dicey during Covid, but the shipping and supply chain problems have resolved. I have Chinese wheels on these bikes (Elite Carbon 50D, ICAN Aero 50, respectively). Really good. The Yoeleo replaced a Tarmac SL6 Expert. The frames and wheels are VERY competitively priced. I put Ultegra di2 on both of these bikes. To obtain sometging comparable from Trek or Specialized woukd be several thousands of $ more. Both bikes arrived with really good build quality, actually better than the Specialized (facing around brakes, droputs). I have no regrets whatsoever about these purchases and can recommend these companies. I'm not willing to extend that to all Chinese brands, though (some recent RU-vid videos have raised concerns about Elves, for example). And as things stand now, there's no way that I would use a Chinese group set yet. But I can vouch for these two company's frames, and ICAN and Elite Carbon wheels. The bikes are fast, light, absolutely silent, and comfortable. As for the customer service, ask a Canyon owner about their creaky seat posts, or a Canondale owner about the dangerous head tubes, etc.
Affordable sure, but what about ride quality, after care, warranty etc? Save few bucks to ride a frame that rides like a brick? Ill be first to admit bike prices have gotten a bit out of hand. However you can get a name brand for not a tremendous amount more.....Giant for instance, which makes some of the best product around.
Chinese national team uses Pardus Spark EVO. Bike with full Shimano Ultegra Di2 is sub 5000 USD at a dealer where I live. Frame set for Spark RS (lower grade frame) is sub 1000 USD.
If companies like Specialized and Trek go under and everything is bought from Seka/Winspace/any Chinese brand, then where will the Chinese brands get the leading edge engineering? It seems they reverse engineer tons of stuff to be able to build their stuff. Will they be able to develop new ideas and do appropriate r/d to safely bring new ideas to market.
$2800 just for a frame is not cheap. Especially for one from a unknown brand like Saka. To finish the bike it would cost $4000. That aint cheap for unknown brand. I get it that is cheaper than a 21k pinarello. The maximum I’d pay for a finished bike is 2.5k
Love your chanel and reviews, but just watched this and decided SEKA was the most "Reputable looking" company of the bunch, but then after 10 minutes of further internet research and watching Cam Nichols's RU-vid story of allying himself with this company, he has concluded their communication and refund policy suck! And he advises everyone to stay the fuck away! So... just when I thought the Chinese have joined the world of reputable business practices... they prove once again that they are super jivey and can't be trusted. WTF! That sucks! Maybe I'll give them another chance in 10 years! My question is... Is doing business in China, even if you're Chinese ALWAYS LIKE THIS??? This is called being, "Crooked" in the western world, as in Crook or Thief, or just downright dishonest. This is not to be confused with, "Growing pains of a new, small company", it's just dishonest.
Ridgeback bikes are all from China. It's why they don't have a spares department in the UK. Make of that what you will. Personally, I would only buy a machine (bike, home appliance, car, etc.) I can at least get genuine spares for. Until then... sorry China, no deal.
Welli dunno, I looked at serk and for the same price, you can get a TLab R3 which has much more thinking behind it (there is not one round tube on that bike to control flex in different axis, made in Montreal, Canada, lifetime warranty on the frame, made just for you, no cookie cutter bikes. Complete bike for less than $4500usd, with Shimano 105 mechanical. Modern frame for life , components can be upgraded. I do not own one, I have no relationship with them, I am just saying that you have little gems when it comes to metal bikes. Carbon is cookie cutter anyways so I would not hesitate but the prices you show are still a good budget. For 20% difference I prefer to get is fitted by someone who knows what he’s doing. Having to switch components around is great if you know what you are doing. If not it ends up being costly to get your local bike shop to change your breaks position, bar width, stem length, etc…
Taiwan =/= China when it comes to carbon manufacturing. Taiwan was an innovator and first mover in high tech carbon forming - in both cycling and more widely. Taiwan is still the best place to get carbon frames, ahead of even Europe and America. China started late and only recently have the big brands switched to China. They are still far behind Taiwan in terms of tech and quality.
Bought a custom Ti frame from Waltly this year for US$1250 (including Chinese domestic shipping since I live in China - international shipping would surely be more expensive) and it's been great. Nearly 4500km on the bike already since I put it together in April and I absolutely love it. Looks great and the frame is very well assembled. Waltly is another Chinese brand that manufactures Ti frames for other western brands, so they definitely know their stuff.
I’ve seen multiple Seka’s in person and they look super nice, the finish inside the headtube and the BB is not up there with the known brands though. Also the thru axle tap in the front fork was off. If they fix small things like this I can see myself buying one no problem. Also I think Seka sounds better than Winspeed or Yoeleo.
My biggest problem with Sensah and L-Twoo are the mechanical designs of their components, although maybe some of them are limited by patents. I reckon I can sprint-shift Shimano STI better than Sensah mechanical.
@@nicokilla11 'Almost' can be quite some time, though, because metallurgy and execution on it are very hard. The space is cornered by patents, too; if you licensed them proper prices would become increasingly less disrupting.
I bought a decade ago a chinese brand road bike frame. About a year later I outgrew it. First, on a 60km/h descent, it developed a high speed wobble that terrified me. Then this began to happen even at 40km/h. At this point I realized that breaking my bones was not worth the price I paid for this frame and replaced it. If I was doing cycling just occasionally, I would probably have kept it though.
I have spent a lot of time in China and Pardus bicycles are a well kept secret. Very reasonably priced, UCI sticker and bikes ridden by team china at competition. They have really great store staff who helped repair the pile of wank I picked up cheap elsewhere, and they did it for free. One of their top of the range models, all carbon with SRAM groupset was under £4 in the store I visited, with some great models under £2k. I think the brands that are actively exporting are hiking their prices somewhat.
Ican certainly have well priced frames, until you get to the checkout and they quote $420 for DHL delivery to the UK. At that point they're no cheaper than Yeoleo & Winspace. The EU warehouse includes free shipping but doesn't ship to the UK. Thanks Brexit.
The problem that I have with [anything] manufactured by Chinese companies is not necessarily the quality of the products, but the fact that IP protections in China are so weak that they might as well not exist. As such, there's a very good chance that even when you're buying a "serious" Chinese bike brand, you're likely buying stolen EU/USA/CDN bike technology. So, if you're the kind of person that doesn't mind wearing a very convincing pair of 'Luis Vitton' loafers or an 'A. Lang & Sogne' watch, then have at it -- pick up what is essentially a 'Pinorella' or a 'Callnago' for your cycling. Otherwise, exercise some modicum of respect for the work, engineering, and craftsmanship that goes into making great bikes; save up and get the real deal (and not some cheap knockoff).
Well, isn't is kinda obvious; all those major big names, and those luxurious niches brands' bikes are made in the exact same factory. They know how to make good bikes! If western brands want to survive, they would need to do something more than just repainting their previous models claiming, that its like a whole lot of innovation. Such a same.
I bought a chinese full suspension fat frame on amazon a few years ago. It worked OK but the carbon was heavy and the BB was 120 mm causing some problems. The rear shock would bottom out easily. There are many little things that can make such a purchase tricky and you won''t know until it's in your hand.
UCC, Camp, Spark, Rollingstone, Winspace, Seka and Hi-Light （I left out Java and Twitter but they are more popular in the lower price segment)……No one buy Elves, I can, Yoeleo in China, never saw one domestically
Have a cannondale myself bad boy not even a great road bike ,but it has the important stuff wheels , peddles and handle bars . If you haven't put 30-40k km on your bike new bike not necessary yet more riding time is 🚴🏽♂️💨👊🏿
I bought a Chinese one in 2018, none of those brands in your video... I haven't had a problem with it until today, other than what happens with many aero seatposts, one day it comes down.... this year, a friend who had a specialized one and had fallen with it in a competition, he decided to buy a Chinese one too because he thought it wasn't worth spending so much when you run a serious risk of having accidents... he liked the bike so much that he bought it that people who ride with he was also surprised, and in less than 1 month, 2 others bought the same model he bought... he went from a specialized bike with electronic Shimano to a Chinese bike with an Ltwoo group... which was seen as crap, was I see it as very good and I believe that soon others will buy it too. We live in Brazil, we have very high fees and taxes... 2 thousand dollars that you pay even in a Chinese painting, for us it's 10 thousand in our currency plus the import tax which UNFORTUNATELY this year reached 92%... here's one The top bike costs another 3 figures, 150 thousand... sooner or later, Chinese bikes will dominate my country! Sorry my bad english!
Dave, please do an ICAN build plus Shimano 105 groupset. I ordered their Aero frame with custom paint job, they were very flexible and offered a better quality painting option than i originally planned. Bike rides great, I'm very happy, but I'd like to hear your opinion since i don't experiment with as many bikes as you do.
4:00 for a bit more than the 1400 quid you can get a TIME frameset on sale (for 1600-1800 EUR). Admittedly not the latest model, but it's not like the companies presented here innovate a lot justify closing any evolutionary gap.
I’m sure a lot of the time you get something very comparable to what a western bike brand produce without paying the chunk of cash the middlemen like Trek or Specialized charge you. Not that I grudge them their cut. As Chinese brands establish more comprehensive distribution / logistics networks, better customer service, fully assembled bikes, configuration choices, warranties, nice websites and market their products more, their prices will converge on the prices the Western bike brands pay. That stuff costs money. It then gets down to how much you are prepared to pay for the brand name. When prices diverges to not much, most people likely will buy the name brand. Over time the Chinese manufacturers will become name brands as well. We pay a lot for branding and convenience.
Bought a European bike frame. They sent me photos of it in its raw carbon state ,very disappointed, full of pits from the air bubbles trapped when laminating it. If they keep that sort of quality up the Chinese will eat them.
If you want bang for your buck go for established/well known chinese brand. Remember that China has billions of people even if they don't export products they have to produce quality stuff and protect their brand name for that billion people local market.
You show the flyxii FE02 frame (the 350 GBP one) I bought twice. Flawless frame. The first one got in a crash and apparently survived (to be checked). I was so happy that I got another one, also flawless until now.
Someone is taking money to hustle these china bikes. Your neck and face are what you are gambling with. When these cheap frames crack, there is no recourse that you would have with a name brand that has a reputation to uphold.
Well look the thing is..I know this may shock many of you but….but…matter of fact people who love to pay 6000 euros for a frameset are likely to get fewer and fewer.
Agree if it’s branded something that it’s not. Most of the carbon manufacturers now have been in business for a long time and cut their teeth and built their business supplying mainstream brands. The China branded bikes are good. I think everyone forgets that the China market is massive. A country like Australia alone could only be 5% of the China market which is competitive in itself. They make planes and trains and have universities that were being lectured at by serious professors from the west 15 years ago. I was living there and knew several that were being paid 3 X salary in USA / Uk. China has the best supply chain In the WORLD
