As you stated, as you work in the area you move stuff around to suit what you are building. Paul Sellers only has his work bench and tools within a few steps or in an arms reach. I'm a wood turner, just need my lathe but other tools are 12 feet away like my Drill press & band saw... it works but there is certainly much needed improvement. The one absolute NEED in any shop is a cabinet for the paints & finishes and other items that are flammable. For what little I have a small two drawer file cabinet works, but I know I will need to upgrade down the road.
What about putting the dustcollection "upstairs", in that weird attic kinda area behind those red doors? I can imagine that the accessibility to that area can be pretty hard (for example emptying the dustbin).
I have to agree with others.. You have altitude, think in 3 dimensions, not just 2. The only thing that needs to be at human accessible height is the dust bin itself. BTW, your dust bin doesn't have to be a round barrel, it could be rectangular, to better fit the space. You could put big wheels on it, if you want, for better mobility.
As a fellow woodworker and RU-vidr, I have to smile at the out takes. I know that I spend more time filming and getting it on disk to edit than woodworking. My ratio is beyond 10:1. Shooting, editing, and posting about 1 hour for 1 minute of the finished video. I am not complaining as I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't enjoy it. I do envy your space😎🤙
I have completely abandoned the idea of central dust collection. Your evaluation covers most of the reasons I'm dumping the idea. I've found that portable units located in "zones" where they can service 1, 2, or 3 machines are working better for me. Working the secondary market, I've been able to purchase several quality small dust collectors for considerably less than the cost of a large central system with effective ducts.
Great video and excellent tips, Marc. Only tip I'd add is don't be afraid to try something new. Along the lines of your live with it for a bit tip: don't be afraid to try something that doesn't immediately seem right. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes it can trigger another thought that does work.
On your HVAC unit with the white return air grille. You may want to consider adding a pre-filter box that you can use a cartridge-type filter just behind the grille. Much easier to replace pre-filters.
Jay Bates has a great video (maybe two?) on his dust collection and shop air filtration/climate control set up that utilizes pre-filters also, and it’s seems to work like a charm for him as well as prolongs the functional life of the mechanical systems (e.g. mini-splits).
Hi Marc, I noticed a lot of different looking tools in the shop? Is this because of the sponsorship deal? We’re you required to return the tools and purchase new ones. Exited to see what’s coming up!
Go back to some of the videos prior to the move. I talked extensively about the sponsorships and tool choices. To sum up, no, I wasn't required to return anything but the loss of a sponsor opens up a lot of new opportunities to experience other brands.
Hey Marc, just went through a similar deal this past year moving into a new location and shop. One thing I did differently here compared to my old shop on ventilation and specifically dust control was to switch from the approach of pulling fresh air into the space while exhausting the nasty stuff (requiring the fresh air to be heated or else you're dumping all the heat in the building) to something that circulated the air inside the space while filtering it. No fresh air being pulled in. Similar approach to the PM air scrubber you have, but on steroids. No affiliation but take a look at Industrial Maid. I went with 3 of their T-3000i units with additional charcoal filters for the VOC's. They work extremely well. Think it might be a good fit for your space if you're looking for something like this. Note: Not a substitute for having the tools collected to a cyclone, but a belt and suspender approach to scrubbing anything that doesn't get caught at the tool ;-)
Regarding dust collection. I see everyone get all freaked out over duct work layout. My bona fides are 40+ years of design and operation of pneumatic conveying system for dry powders up to 60,000 lbs per hour. Also, I designed and operated dust systems for control of explosive dusts, mostly starches, but also sugars, fibers etc. A general rule of thumb for a pneumatic conveying system is not to exceed 2 lbs of material per cu ft of air. This would be a heavily loaded pneumatic system. Since most woodworkers have dust collectors that run from 450 cfm to maybe 1200 cfm with most being around 600, you can see that even off of a planer, the chip/dust loading can almost be ignored. The controlling design factor is pressure drop across the system and air velocity. One can find a lot of engineering data on the net showing pressure drop in ducts. To determine velocity is simply divide volumetric airflow by duct cross sectional area. The goal is to have 2700-3000 ft/min at the pickup point. Any more than that and you'll have unnecessary pressure drop. Since it's a vacuum system, if it's picked up, it'll keep going because the velocity is increasing across the system. One can also construct a homemade manometer or purchase an inches water gauge to determine the fan's static pressure capabilities. In a 4" corrugated hose, the pressure drop for a 650 cfm Delta unit with 1micron bags on the top and bottom is less than a half inch of water over 25'. In a smooth 4" pipe, it's essentially unmeasurable. That gives a velocity of around 7500 ft/min or 3x the pickup velocity for wood chips. Even a cheap, Harbor Freight system will develop several inches of water static pressure. So, in most cases, a dust system can be laid out for convenience and aesthetics with almost no impact on performance. Also, I've been in this shop for 5 years with Powertec 1 micron bags on a Delta unit and a 40 year old no-name unit. There is essentially no layer of dust on flat surfaces that have been exposed to settling dust for 5 years. I mill all of my lumber that I use.
People can easily obsess over the distance between tools, but they sometimes forget that setting up is where most of the time is actually spent before you start cutting. Making sure everything you need as far as accessories, blades, bits and stuff that are accessible at the tool will save you more time than making sure all of the tools are close to each other.
If you’ve got little kids, another way to plan your layout in great detail is with Lego. If you make each of those little 4-pin square pieces equal to one square foot, you can get really accurate and creative.
Just laying out a workshop in the UK for first time so your video is much appreciated. The tip about electrical supplies immediately had me realising I’d made a big error. Really useful stuff, thanks!
I've worked wood professionally for over 40 years, and the layout for the main dimensional tools you showed is right on the money. I like to use lumber carts as well that the wood rides on throughout the machining process all the way to the assembly area. I'm finally setting up a new home shop after quite some time without one. I still have most of my machines, but finally got around to building the space. I am currently putting the ceiling in my new 32' x 36' shop, and will be doing the wiring next. Cant wait to machine some wood though 😊
I just moved my shop around again. Maybe the 4th time in this space. Or… the 8th. Who’s counting? My husband doesn’t understand. But… I have added tools. I have changed what my workflow is. I have changed the types of projects. In this last move I had everything just about set when I realized that I had things blocking infeed. So I had to pivot. I think I’m really liking the new layout. Makes me feel more productive.
My tip about shop layout is if you build a shop in an old fire house you scatter Ghostbusters references and collectibles around the shop. It really helps with the Feng shui.
Jay Bates has a dust collector more or less in the middle of his shop, or did at one time. Good way to keep runs short. I make "power poles", lapped 2X4s to make a 4X4 pole. This allows me to run electrical and exhaust down the pole to a group of machines. This also groups the blast gates.
Good video. I think workflow is overrated. In most modest sized shops the distance isn't really an issue and the processing of stock is not so linear. It's common to go from rough layout to milling, back to layout for joinery, and back to milling/sizing of parts. I'm on my fifth shop. Dust collection is probably the top issue unless you want duct work all over your shop. Finding a way to group your tools to limit the number of runs off your dust collector seems paramount. Followed by electrical if you have some 220V machines. Then there are some natural things such as a table saw in the center because you need space in front of the table saw and typically an outfeed table +/- a router table in the extension. And as Marc pointed out there are machines like miter saws and band saws that lend themselves to be up against a wall because you work in front of or alongside those tools not behind them.
Can you put your cyclone up high and pipe down to a bin? You have such high ceilings in that place... then you could simply have a 50 gallon container in a corner with a pipe in the top. Besides the occasional service, is there any disadvantage to mounting a cyclone up higher? I do see a large step ladder and you do own a duct lift thingamabob.... Another thing to consider is that Harvey unit. I have looked at it a few times because I could build it under a bench (I am sure you will be building some of those! again! For the last time, maybe?) I can't really say I'm a source of knowledge on dust collection. I have been investigating a plan for my own use. I would be interested in opinions...
Marc, good points. The types of tools that can go along the wall should also be pointed out - bandsaw, drill press, router table, sanding station, and miter saw can all be grouped to go on opposite walls. That leave dust collection a bit simpler to run as well (two branches off the main with drops for every tool). Beyond that, I have found it a blessing to have a L-shaped shop. It made layout and dust collector location a no-brainer.
You talk about taking up valuable space but yet you have more space than where you came from, so I think using that space for dust collection is not unreasonable.
In my shop I have 120 and 240 volt outlets in the ceiling. I anchored my power drops to the hard duct drops and mounted receptacles to pieces of plywood that are zip tied to the lower end of the duct. No cords to trip over and cords basically follow the path of the dust collection hoses.
At the very end of the video, you show a small alcove high in a wall. That may be a good spot to put the dust collector motor/impeller and cyclone separator. Put the bin on the floor, with a long pipe from the bottom of the cyclone. Since cyclone separators capture the vast majority of the dust, the dust filter shouldn't need much maintenance, so it can be up high, too. If the filter is in that alcove, cut a large hole in the doors and install some furnace filters. That will cut down on the dust in the air (that gets through the dust collector filter). In fact, if you don't care about conditioned air, you could forego the dust filter entirely, and just vent straight outside (assuming you use a cyclone separator). That's what I've done with my dust collector / cyclone. My shop is in my unheated barn, so I don't care about sending the inside air straight outside. (It also boosts my CFM since there's no filter to reduce airflow.)
Marc, great video. When I was moving my shop from NJ to upstate NY, I enjoyed using Excel for designing it as I was very familiar with Excel from work and didn't have to buy/download anything. Simply resize each cell into a square small enough so that your entire shop fits on the screen. For me, each square was a square foot (easy to visualize a square foot especially for in/outfeed purposes) and my basement shop was about 35'x30'. Make boxes with thicker borders/infill color for machines/benches/toolchests even lights. Obstructions like lolly columns/radon vent pipe/stairs are easily placed using different border/infill colors. I went through at least six major interations with weeks/months between (it took us about 2 years to move) and learned from each one. Infeed and outfeed space got a major emphasis, and I focused a lot on dust collection with long straight runs for the planar/band saw/table saw/drum sander on the G-700 and the jointer/drill press on the cyclone. Electrical circuits (6 110V and 6 220V) were run along walls and overhead through 3/4" conduit for flexibility and a 30-slot mostly empty panel was just feet away. Eighteen 4' LED lights provide plenty of shadow-free light along with an 8' set of windows on the walk-out side of the basement. Since I'm retired and only do woodworking for fun, I put very little emphasis on efficiency or speed or even workflow (I know some folks do, but I'm glad that I don't). Best of luck in your new place!!!!
Putting the dust collector outside has the end effect of sucking all of the conditioned air (heated or cooled) out of your workspace. Given how much you spent on a new HVAC system it seems counterproductive.
I always like the jointer next to the planer with a drill press (or two) in the middle of them. It’s a super space efficient setup and works well to joint then plane a board, the drill presses between them use the space that would be normally forgotten about. I also like back to back sawstops! I had the opportunity to do this where I work and the dust collection and electric came from the basement so no interference in that aspect. Usually keep a dado stack on one and a general purpose blade on the other. Works well because the the second saw becomes the outfeed of the other saw. Doesn’t work for every one though.
We just got a huge Legacy ornamental mill for our shop it is 9 feet long and we are having issues moving around it changes our shop and trying to figure out a new layout. and Hi any tips for DIYers and woodworkers starting on youtube
My shop is in left of three garage stalls. My left wall has a dust collector run with bandsaw, drill press, sanders, planer, jointer all lined up. Table saw in middle of stall. Made the run way easier. Collector sits to side of garage door, kind of in front corner. Basically like Mark said but condensed the tools into one row.
Would love to see more on your electrical and dust collection ductwork! I'm building out a similar size building and finally getting to shop layout. My wall height is 16 foot and I am very curious about more details on the electrical drops you did (or had did). I'm thinking you probably did 10 gauge from panel to ceiling spot above the drop into an electrical box and then changed over to a black flexible cable and ended with a proper NEMA L6-(15A, 20A, 30A depending on tool)? I'm also designing my dust collection ductwork which seems to require a math and science degree (lol). Will be starting out at 8 inches to get out of the soundproof "utility room" and up to the distribution height. As I drop down, if the tool has dual 4", I will drop down with 6" and then split into 2x4" to service the tool. But I'm really curious to learn more about your duct work design considerations. I can't afford Nordfab, but may be able to swing metal spiral pipe. Worst case, I'm using PVC for all of the main runs, switching down to clear flex just before the tool and of course using metal blast gates (wish I could swing the new iVac system that wirelessly communicates to all necessarily blast gates once a tool is turned on). Oh, and one other item I have to design for is my air compressor loop and drops. Yes I know cordless is here, and I have a large set of them. But there are instances I prefer compressed air (plus on my metal fab side of the shop, things like my CNC plasma, have to have compressed air), my blast cabinet, my spray booth, etc; so for the compressed air circuits I'm running all 3/4" RapidAir MaxLine and their drops. Would love to see more on your electrical and dust collection ductwork!
Great, insightful video! I never understood why folks have a mental hurdle around 240v circuits. Pulling 12/3 wire is not significantly different than pulling 12/2 to me. Tying in a double pole vs single pole breaker or receptacle--meh, also not that significant. Same procedure with one more screw on each end...really no biggie.
Maybe I missed it, did you find a quick disconnect for dust collection? I'm not looking for fantastic super clean dust collector but mostly planning the planer, table saw and maybe joiner. My shop/barn is still in process. (shared space with storage and yard equipment) 24 by 30 pole barn. I've got basic lay out but like you said dust blows it up. Especially the saw dust port on my two table saw choices (ports on right). I definitely plan on assembly table and finishing where I can use some natural light. Maybe you were a closet human (ergonomic) engineer in your other life. I did it for aviation maintenance and it make my thinking a bit twisted. Either way great stuff, thanks for sharing
Thanks for the video, I’m remodeling my garage workshop here in Highlands Ranch. Sorry to leave CO. I did have one question off topic but where did you get your materials when you were here?
Ive been involved with a few Mens Sheds in my travels and they are DANGEROUSLY layed out. High walk areas, office, bathrooms, have machings placed with operators blind to trafic. These areas should be used to store books, cabinet hardware, coatings, sand paper etc...filtered down to tools if need be. Ive seen men using scribe saws , band saws in high walk areas with their backs to traffic. First aid station and a metal vise sharing the same bench. These sheds need help in designing safe spaces for these old boys.
I’m in a one car garage, and I’m happy to have that dedicated shop space. But maybe, someday, I’ll be in a position to have a larger one. So where is the sweet spot, space-wise? For a one man hobbiest workshop is it 400 sq ft? 600?
You moved to Wentzville? I lived in Wentzville for 8 years prior to moving to California. Great people and an awesome school system in Wentzville. Good luck!
You already mentioned it but the biggest tip I have is to stay flexible and mobile. After working in a space for a while or getting a new free standing tool, you may decide to move some stuff around. If your tools aren't on casters or the dust collection piping is glued/riveted together, this can be a huge pain to deal with.
Insulated door panels to cut down noise. That big firehouse door has little to no insulating factor, , even changing the driveway into the lot. And putting up large tall plants will block some noise at the street. Ok id like to know what city your in now if its kansas city i can tell you Liberty hardwoods near worlds of fun. Metro hardwoods in independence mo is there retail store, Bloomers off 45 hwy near platt city by Leavenworth ks . St Joe has some hardwoods bussines But ive never delt with any of them. We have other places also. We've got a woodcraft in overland Park. And one other shop can't think of its name.
I'm an advocate for dust collectors not being in the workspace, due to the particles that you can't see being blown back into the workspace. As you should know, it's the stuff you can't see, that is the most damaging to your health. If you can smell it, you're breathing it.
Great tips thx! More into panels than classic wood working. Handling the size and the weight of the sheets is quite an element to be considered as well!
Ha, my shop is a disaster! So no tips here. Hopefully when I retire next year God willing I’ll set it up nice. But disaster or not it’s my fortress of solitude, no place I’d rather be .
One of the things that I have always tried to drill into peoples brains .... what works for one person does not always work for someone else ... try the way it is suggested but always look at ways to make it better for YOU ... and who knows ... the person that told you that it HAS to be done THIS way may come along and go "Hmm, that might work better for me too." This suggestion does NOT mean do things that are not safe or anything like that ... Don't break laws and Codes.
Looks like your in kansas city, seen a t-shirt on someone Joe's bbq. So No broncos stuff just cheifs, in fact Make some arrowheads out of wood, you'll sell them fast.
Hey Marc, would the dust collector intrude on the man door too much? In other words, the dust collector sticking into the garage doorway a little bit. Really wouldn't bother anything, would it?
Just wondering why you left Colorado for Missouri…. Also, you did not mention a dust filter for the really fine dust that, regardless of what central DC system you use, always hangs in the air like a gas. This is the same air you breath. Once that fine dust gets in your lungs, it’s there forever.
I'm building out my 3rd shop and starting to run the ducting. I have stop being frustrated at the constant tradeoff negotiations I keep having will all the tools.
For electrical, how do you keep your flexibility option and still get power to those huge power draws like the table saw, jointer, and planer? Do you use drops for them and if so, if you move it by say, five feet, what happens to that drop?
Drops only need to be approximate. Once the ductwork is in, the drops can be zip-tied to the duct drops. And if I end up moving the tools between now and then, the drops are flexible. Moving them just means they don't drop as far. So some tools just need slightly longer cords to reach the new drop locations which are now a little higher up.
You did not show the other bay in the video, but that seems like another location for dust collection and/or maybe a finishing booth or any less commonly performed operations. The door between the bays is not large, but anything big could go out one garage door and into the other or maybe enlarge the man-size door which may pay for the increased heat/cooling bill as you lose conditioned air opening both large doors. I love the space.
Is it possible to put the motor/filter/cyclone in the loft area and have a longer flexible(or rigid) duct down to the dustbin in the shop? Would cut down on noise and hassle and only have to clean the filter occasionally in the loft
I forgot to say earlier. Welcome to Mo. Trying to remember what area your in. Check out the whiskey barrel plant in Lebanon and take the wife through the wine trail sometime. Both are pretty cool and maybe some great wood finds while doing it.
Not sure if I can explain this in words but here goes. Like you I am putting my jointer on the fixed end of my table saw, but I am putting my planner between the jointer and the table saw. I can start with the jointer, one edge, one flat side, go to the planner second flat side and then to the table saw. With all three located n one spot it will simplify dust collection. I am bringing one 6" drop down for the three pieces of equipment and using blast gates to open just what is in use. I am a single person shop so usually no more than one will be open at a time. Just my idea
my nephew put his in the ceiling, he sound dampened and you cant heard a thing. its a big system for a big shop.......i never thought to ask about the bins.
You said in a video you posted after getting the fire house you wonder what to use the huge space up top. What about putting the dust collector up there and extending the hose to the catch can below
Your shop needs are prioritized for filming/presentation so your layout isn't always about priority flow and time magement. And to educate. I wouldn't overthink the dust collection. It's better to be close and make changes as required than have to move the "obstruction" (portable DC) until it's "right". Good now is better than perfect tomorrow. I prioritize for flow based on material management: one man, save my body, and minimal material damage. Elevation is king (much of my work is sheet good oriented; at least the heavy and awkward items). Everything comes into the shop horizontal until it can be easily managed. Van-roller-conveyor (portable/collapsible)-hydraulic cart or scissors pallet jack (both are very useful in maneuvering piles or in supporting assembly or loading). As much as possible horizontal surfaces are on wheels. My main workbench is about 6' x 30". About ⅓ of the time I wished it was larger (always something to rethink). A happy accident: I built it under duress (sometimes the best thing is needing to avoid a crash). Most horizontal surfaces in my shop were about 36" off the floor. I made the cart about 1-2" too tall (damn the infeed support, full speed ahead). Now I can maneuver over sized items through the shop and not hit anything. I rethought horizontal layers and staggered them a bit. The jointer is a couple of inches below my sliding table (not something you will have for your target audience). Plenty tall, but very little interference. The point being we have various "stories", almost forest like that can be utilized. Dude, you may still have good feet. Or not. Once you get this shop layout close, look for rubber based flooring. I experimented with pieces of various thicknesses. Mostly rubber horse stall mats. High enough density to not be a rolling cart issue. ¼-½" was plenty thick for my feet and legs. Sadly, stall mats are only available in black (and speckles are of little value); stall mats are the cheapest good solution. I did find a similar commercial product made of crumbled pieces (similar to rebond foam). Rez___ something, part of RPM. The primarily light gray was best (the white UVs to a yellow; and the grey was happily cheaper). Not too bad at sucking the light out of the room. Pricey, such is life. You are back in the "green" part of the country. Moisture (and sweat) management matter again. Arizona & Colorado made wood moisture and finishing pretty much no brainers. And almost no bugs. I think you will find the open door work used less often & you will need some sort of additional air movement in your finishing area - that journey will be useful in your courses. And give you an opportunity to introduce better finishes (higher grade, low VOC) along with common issues. A lot of the newer products aren't anymore costly than the products people are already buying (and where emissions requirements are headed anyhow). Just require a little more forethought than the stop off at Lowe's, Rockler, etc, on the way home. And they are surprisingly easy to use. Sorry about the "book".
I have been following for several years, and have incorporated several of your processes along the way. Including your layout processes. Thanks for all you do for all of us.
